The Nature Of Magic

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#1
you know,I'm surpised I never ask this before but I guess because it never really was on the forefront of my mind,at least never like this,
what is magic?
is it chaotic,is it orderly,is it colors blending together,is it music that throbs and beats through you,is it dancing till you can't breathe,or running till you're in another city.is it your mind unlocking your full capablilties or spirits that look over you.is it subtle, an almost non-existent force that polietly ask the universe to step aside or an overpowering one that makes the universe kneel.does it live in the green meadows that lulls men into a peaceful mediation or is the city that put electricty into our bodies and makes us alert.does it talk through the songs of the birds or the buzz of a neon sign.
what is magic?
what is magic to you?
 

danny_cogdon

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#2
Simple answer? Psychosomia.

Magic only works on those who believe it works.

I believe it works on those who believe it works on them but it will never work on me because I don't believe it will work on me.

You did ask! ;)
 

searinglight2

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#3
Holding my newborn son or daughter, hearing a beautifal song, a sunrise a full moon or a rainbow, waking up next to the woman i love, and her loving me back. a full belly, good friends and a shared joke. i could go on, but you get the point.


I think that's real magic, the other kind is just being in step with the worlds synchronicity's, wishing for money and then "magically" receiving some or the often mentioned "thinking of someone and they phone" one...being in tune with the universe in other words.

apologies if this makes no sense in the morning, too tired to really trust myself.
 

danny_cogdon

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#4
Doh!

I've stumbled into a goddamn hippy love-in! :shock:

I thought this was a discussion about the Fortean concept of magic (or majik) where belief systems can overcome the natural functions of the human body and cause good or harm.

I'm outa here! :D
 

searinglight2

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#5
The fortean concept? of majick/magic/magjickkikk?hippy love in?

Thinking of myself as a fortean (eg youknow "OPEN MINDED but not to the point of credulousness, politely skeptical and a natural born devils advocate) and being about as far from a hippy as is possible i should take offense, but i suppose if you have to be called something, a hippy is better than many others.

Then again if a love in is all it takes to get you to sod off,and low level troll somewhere else, this could end up a better thread than some others you patronize.

I for one think peoples personal opinions deserve to listened to with respect and not insulted.

Do you have anything pertinent to add to the discussion?

Peace! ;)
 

danny_cogdon

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#6
I thought my post was clearly tongue in cheek. From the initial Homer Simpson 'Doh!' to the archetypal 'goddamn hippy' reference to right-wing reactionaries and ending in 'I'm outa here!' followed by a :D .

Sorry if I've offended you but I thought you might have a sense of humour.
 
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#7
danny_cogdon said:
I thought my post was clearly tongue in cheek. From the initial Homer Simpson 'Doh!' to the archetypal 'goddamn hippy' reference to right-wing reactionaries and ending in 'I'm outa here!' followed by a :D .

Sorry if I've offended you but I thought you might have a sense of humour.
Careful now, someone might put the Curse of Allah on you. Its not nice to be pursued by a Djinn ye know.
 

searinglight2

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#9
fair enough, after reading in the context you said you wrote it in, i can see what you were aiming for, sarcasm and such are difficult to "get" on the interwebs, no hard feelings :D
 

tilly50

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#11
If magic can only work on those that believe in its potency and that individual practices magic to empower themselves then it would work on them, wouldn't it? Or would it be considered that they were only deluding themselves? ;)
 

danny_cogdon

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#12
tilly50 said:
If magic can only work on those that believe in its potency and that individual practices magic to empower themselves then it would work on them, wouldn't it? Or would it be considered that they were only deluding themselves? ;)
I should have been clearer. I was thinking specifically about physical effects of magic e.g. using the evil eye on someone to harm them or, conversely, using the power of prayer to heal.

Like I said: psychosomia.
 

Dingo667

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#13
Seriously?
I think magick or whatever spelling is correct has its roots in quantum physics.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that several "spells" I have casted came true and the newest "craze" about the listening universe [where you get what you ask for] works also to an extend.

On some old forgotten thread I also mentioned some victorian German occultist who said that he "knew" how everything works together and he can make anything happen, he explained that we are all linked by an invisible net and each one of us is at a node, so when you ask for something, the message is sent to everyone and eventually they work unknowingly towards your wish. BTW he killed himself as he couldn't cope with this knowledge.

Weather he was mad or not, there is some grain of truth in that analogy [at least I think so] as it is merely a simplification of things that quantum physicists and neuroscientists are slowly starting to unveil officially.

One of the theories is that our "thoughts" and memories are not actually stored inside the brain but somewhere "out there", that the brain is merely a receiver than a storage device. This seems to explain a lot of old conundrums.

Anywho...Getting back to majjchickg :blah: , couldn't it be also explained by this?
Wishes, thoughts, energies that are "transmitted" and other phenomena could[!] one day be explained scientifically.
Well, that is what I think it is. 8)
 

shambles

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#14
danny_cogdon said:
Doh!

I've stumbled into a goddamn hippy love-in! :shock:

I thought this was a discussion about the Fortean concept of magic (or majik) where belief systems can overcome the natural functions of the human body and cause good or harm.

I'm outa here! :D

My understanding and experience of magic/k/thbbbbbf/whatever is that it about using your will to effect a change in your (internal or external) world. Viewed in this way, making a cup of tea is a magical process. And a jolly nice, easily acheivable one at that.

scurries off to write a bestselling book about the magickal power of really boring tasks for teens
 

danny_cogdon

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#15
shambles said:
My understanding and experience of magic/k/thbbbbbf/whatever is that it about using your will to effect a change in your (internal or external) world. Viewed in this way, making a cup of tea is a magical process. And a jolly nice, easily acheivable one at that.

scurries off to write a bestselling book about the magickal power of really boring tasks for teens
Milk, two sugars thanks! ;)
 

coaly

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#16
Dingo667 said:
One of the theories is that our "thoughts" and memories are not actually stored inside the brain but somewhere "out there", that the brain is merely a receiver than a storage device. This seems to explain a lot of old conundrums.
And who genuinely believes this theory? :lol:
 

Xanatic_

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#19
Yes saying Chopra believes it is hardly an endorsement. I´d also like to have someone on here who thinks they can do magic give me an example of what they can do.
 

shambles

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#21
Xanatic_ said:
Yes saying Chopra believes it is hardly an endorsement. I´d also like to have someone on here who thinks they can do magic give me an example of what they can do.
I can turn cheesecake into poo in my sleep. That's how magic I am.
 

Fluttermoth

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#22
shambles said:
Xanatic_ said:
Yes saying Chopra believes it is hardly an endorsement. I´d also like to have someone on here who thinks they can do magic give me an example of what they can do.
I can turn cheesecake into poo in my sleep. That's how magic I am.
:lol:
 

lunastyle

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#23
techno

I believe medetating to tribal rythams such as found in a good techno e.p. can enlighten your mind to magical expieriences[/quote]
 
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#24
Any discussion of magic(k or however you want to spell it) has to eventually take ol' unkle Al Crowley into account.

Crowley, in "Magick in Theory and Practice" defined magic as the "art and science of causing change to occur in conformity with the will". The important word here is "will", of course. And in case we weren't paying attention the first time, he also gives us a secondary definition; "Any intentional act is a magickal act." Hardly any of the legion of commentators on Crowley's work has really understood this, saying things like "so that means that ANY human act is magickal." What Crowley understood, and hardly anyone else did at the time - but as any behaviorist will tell you - most human acts are not `willed`at all, but the result of `conditioned responses to external stimuli`` - or `programming`, if you like.

We are all, virtually from birth, programmed, by parents, teachers, peers, political and religious leaders, advertisers, and pundits of every description, to react in certain prescribed ways to applied stimuli - to believe certain things without thinking about them, to vote in a certain way - again without thinking, to buy certain products.....you get the idea. What Crowley is saying is that any action that is NOT the result of conditioning - any act of `free will`, in fact - is a magical act and has magical power.

There has been much heated (and fetid!) controversy among philosophers and psychologists as to whether `free will` even exists. What Crowley is telling us is that acting from `free will`is perhaps not impossible but certainly very difficult; it involves breaking through many layers of programming, conditioning, social taboos, etc., and in his books he outlines several ways of doing precisely this.

`New Age`gurus tell us that we `create our own reality.` In fact this is rarely the case; our social conditioning gets in the way. Only by stripping away the layers of conditioning can we actually `create`our own reality; one could say, then, that Magick is `the ìntentional creation of realities.`

One shouldn`t, perhaps, follow Crowley`s example too closely - he was born into wealth but died in poverty, an alcoholic and drug addict, living on the charity of friends - but his techniques do work.

So, really, converting cheesecake into poo while you sleep doesn`t count as magic. Sorry about that.
 

shambles

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#25
theflyingsorcerer said:
So, really, converting cheesecake into poo while you sleep doesn`t count as magic. Sorry about that.
It does if I intend it to. And no need to apologise.
 

lunastyle

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#27
I want to read "The Book of the Law". Apparantly, Crowley used to open conversation with the quote "do what thou will shall be the whole of the law," to which the painter Augustus John once replied "to hell with all laws"!
 
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#28
Interesting comments!

"The Book of the Law" is an altogether weird and strange piece of work, supposedly "dictated" to Crowley by some vast nonphysical entity named Aiwass; the sketch he made of this Aiwass character looks uncannily like one of the bog-standard Grey Aliens familiar from UFO lore.

In all honesty, Crowley wasn't all that great of an artist, and furthermore he was an incorrigible practical joker, so one never knows whether anything he produces is serious or a total put-on; thus the resemblance might be relevant or it might not. Best to take everything Crowley writes with a very, very large grain of salt.

I was briefly involved with a group of O.T.O Crowleyites some 25 or so years ago (I've led an interesting life). Unfortunately, some of them turned out to be just as rigid and dogmatic in their views as any Christian or Islamic fundamentalist, so my association with them didn't last long.

"Do what thou wilt shall be the howl of the lure." Make of that what you will!

Theflyingsorcerer
 

cece23

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#29
coaly said:
Dingo667 said:
One of the theories is that our "thoughts" and memories are not actually stored inside the brain but somewhere "out there", that the brain is merely a receiver than a storage device. This seems to explain a lot of old conundrums.
And who genuinely believes this theory? :lol:
While our brain enables us to think, I believe that thoughts and emotions are stored in our "soul" (for want of a better word). This would explain a lot of theories about ghosts and the energy that remains.

This could also explain how some people are able to mind read - they are simply tapping into, or joining with, this life energy.

As for magic, I think we can transmit our thoughts "out there" and get what we want. I have had direct experience with this, I have wished for things - I can think of three, no four, major objects of desire off the top of my head, and I got them. That is not including the countless little things. But its not like you can just get anything you want, you have to really want it, and know why you want it. And you also have to remember the saying "be careful what you wish for".

And how do I think this works? Well I have studied loads of belief systems and psychologiical practices; religion, witchcraft, hypnosis, brainwashing, nlp, etc, etc and really its just a case of knowing how your subconscious works in order to get it to believe in something. Anyone who has looked into why phobias happen, and what makes them worse (eg avoidance), then you are closer to understanding how the subconscious can bring about what it is programmed to bring.

But then this still leaves the question open as to why - even if you can program the subconscious - that you can get what you want?

I think it happens in a way that seems like coincidence, whatever that actually is, because the more you wish for things the more coincidences happen and they just happen to come into your life. Without going into the complexities of how successful wishing comes about I will just say that I wished for a lot of money - not a fortune because I actually didn't know what I would do with a fortune :shock: but just enough money to be able to do my house up and buy a few nice gadgets and clothes. I had no idea how this was going to happen as I don't have a job and my partner just earns enough for us to survive on. It just so happened that an uncle I hadn't seen in absolutely years passed on and left a property to me and my sisters. It had never even occurred to me he would have left anything to us, not being that close to him.

So, this is an example of how belief works - and this is certainly not the first time I wished something into my life. Look at it this way - what you desire is already out there, you just have to believe that it is possible for it to come your way. And magic to me is just an elaborate way of getting your subconscious to accept an idea.

But if you don't believe it works like this, then I am afraid that is your reality.
 
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