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The Origins Of The Name Britain

blessmycottonsocks

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Traditionally, the name Britain is said to have come from the Latin Britannia, which itself is probably derived from Pretani, thought to be an ancient Celtic term meaning (land of) the painted people.

Could the name's origins be far older though?

Several sources from around the 7th century AD onwards, record the legend that Brutus of Troy - the grandson of Aeneas, was banished from Italy after killing his heroic grandfather in an archery accident (c 1180 BC).

Brutus3.JPG


Along with some faithful warriors, including Corineus (more on him later) Brutus travelled throughout Greece and, on visiting an abandoned temple or oracle to Diana, had a vision that he was destined to travel West and discover a new land that would ensure his name would never die.
Sure enough, Brutus and his followers (a small army by most accounts) headed West, where they had a few skirmishes with some ancient Gallic tribes and founded the city of Tours. As the Gauls outnumbered Brutus' band, rather than face annihilation, they stole or constructed a small flotilla of boats and fled across the Channel to the land previous known as Albion.
Rather than the shortest Channel crossing, Brutus and co. appear to have been swept a bit further West and ending up making land at Totnes in Devon.
The spot where Brutus allegedly set foot on land is marked today by a heavily worn and rather nondescript chunk of stone embedded in a high street pavement:

Brutus2.JPG


In earlier accounts, this was known as the Brodes-stone which, along with the Brutus connotation, could also refer to a raised plinth on which a town crier stood to make his announcements.
Anyway, Brutus claimed the land in his name and also said the town he would found at the spot would be called Totnes.
Bear with me; ancient alternative spellings of Totnes were Totanaes, Tottanesse, Dodonesse and Dodenays with the T and D being pretty well interchangeable in early Brittonic languages. The ness part means a prominent point of land, with dod probably meaning earth.
Here's where it gets interesting! The place of the oracle that Brutus visited in Greece was called Dodona - not a million miles (or millennium or so) away from Dodenays/Totnes.

Oh and Brutus' trusted friend Corineus headed a bit further West and allegedly gave his name to Cornwall.

The fragments of Brutus' legend were collated from the various earlier written sources and embellished with much oral bardic material by Geoffrey of Monmouth in his Historia Regum Britanniae, first published around 1136.

The article I link to below is rather long (which is why I summarised it more concisely) but concludes with the reasonable statement: "there is enough potential in these ancient names to give us strong room to doubt that Geoffrey invented the legend of Brutus."

http://uriconium.blogspot.com/2010/08/possible-trojan-name-for-totnes.html

Could Britain and the British owe their national identity to this guy?

Brutus1.JPG
 
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Geoffrey of Monmouth as a source - you're gonna get shot down :)

I on the other hand don't think he just made it up, its a record of oral traditions and legends of the time. Doesn't mean there is any truth in it, also doesn't mean there is no truth in it.
 
I on the other hand don't think he just made it up, its a record of oral traditions and legends of the time. Doesn't mean there is any truth in it, also doesn't mean there is no truth in it.

Which was my point exactly and I posted it in the hope of sparking some discussion.
 
The world is full of very long stories explaining how place names come about. They are usually to ‘big up’ somebody’s claim to a place, or to try and inherit the kudos of the founder’s background, and i’m not sure you can have more kudos than being Trojan. So it’s a good story but i think it’s just to make us look more powerful and sexy.
 
The world is full of very long stories explaining how place names come about. They are usually to ‘big up’ somebody’s claim to a place, or to try and inherit the kudos of the founder’s background, and i’m not sure you can have more kudos than being Trojan. So it’s a good story but i think it’s just to make us look more powerful and sexy.

But the etymology of the name Brutus is also intertwined with "brutal" and "brute", which is not necessarily something you'd want to crow about!
 
I've only heard of Brutus of Troy in regards to the London Stone (probably Geoffrey again). There was no London in the 12th century BC so I don't know where Brutus kept the stone he nicked from the temple of Athena in Troy.
 
Especially not in Totnes. It's all flower power and alternative medicine, don't you know. Centre of weirdness for Devon!

Indeed!

When it comes to a bohemian or new agey vibe, it sounds like Totnes is up there with Hebden Bridge or Tintagel.
Must visit it some time!
 
I subscribe to the Pretani/Britannia/land of the painted people theory.


Here's another theory.

I do not believe it, but it should be noted in this thread.

To paraphrase Wikipedia:

"Further, British Israelists...believe that Britons are descended from some of the Lost Tribes of Israel ....... In the name of the British they see berithish, referring to the Hebrew covenant with God.[1]"

["Brit" is Hebrew for "Covenant."]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism
 
I subscribe to the Pretani/Britannia/land of the painted people theory.


Here's another theory.

I do not believe it, but it should be noted in this thread.

To paraphrase Wikipedia:

"Further, British Israelists...believe that Britons are descended from some of the Lost Tribes of Israel ....... In the name of the British they see berithish, referring to the Hebrew covenant with God.[1]"

["Brit" is Hebrew for "Covenant."]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Israelism

Wasn't aware of that - great find!
 
if you start reading about the Lost Tribes (and you should), just about everybody has been suggested as their descendants - native Americans, various African tribes etc. So isn’t it lovely we are all One Big Family!
 
Probably unrelated, but of interest nonetheless, is the ancient shipwreck found 300 yards off the Devon coast in 2005.
Salcombe is just a few miles south west of Totnes and the shipwreck has been tentatively dated to around 3,000 years ago - roughly contemporaneous with the aftermath of the Trojan war.
Artefacts recovered include swords, daggers, axes, arrow and spearheads, jewellery and ingots originating from France.
Almost certainly coincidental, but couldn't help speculating that one of Brutus' ships may have foundered just before reaching land.

sword.JPG


sword2.JPG


https://www.culture24.org.uk/history-and-heritage/archaeology/art26754
 
Probably unrelated, but of interest nonetheless, is the ancient shipwreck found 300 yards off the Devon coast in 2005.
Salcombe is just a few miles south west of Totnes and the shipwreck has been tentatively dated to around 3,000 years ago - roughly contemporaneous with the aftermath of the Trojan war.
Artefacts recovered include swords, daggers, axes, arrow and spearheads, jewellery and ingots originating from France.
Almost certainly coincidental, but couldn't help speculating that one of Brutus' ships may have foundered just before reaching land.

View attachment 41079

View attachment 41080

https://www.culture24.org.uk/history-and-heritage/archaeology/art26754

Further information on the Salcombe shipwreck here in a very long and very academic article.
A few points of particular interest are that there are possibly two Bronze Age ships in the vicinity and compositional similarity of some of the ingots has been made with similar artefacts found in Israel and Crete.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...Salcombe_Devon_Composition_and_microstructure

Also worthy of note is that the basic design of the sword resembles the Minoan and Mycenaean "Naue II" style Bronze Age sword (or long dagger), first identified in the Aegean or Northern Italy region around 13th century BC.

Now, I realise I'm in danger of sounding a bit like Giorgio Tsoukalos, but...

brutus2.JPG
 
Looks like I may need to add this 2015 book to my already rather oversubscribed reading list:

Brutus.JPG


One fact I took from reading the synopsis below was that perhaps we should stop referring to him as Brutus. That was the Romanisation of his name, as popularised by our old friend Geoffrey of Monmouth and leads to confusion with Julius Caesar's historical assassin.
Apparently, the original Trojan name was likely to have been "Britto".

https://anthonyadolph.co.uk/brutus-of-troy/
 
The world is full of very long stories explaining how place names come about. They are usually to ‘big up’ somebody’s claim to a place, or to try and inherit the kudos of the founder’s background, and i’m not sure you can have more kudos than being Trojan. So it’s a good story but i think it’s just to make us look more powerful and sexy.

The Romans maintained that Rome had been founded by Aeneas after he fled the sack of Troy.

“Fuimus Troes. Fuit Ilium.”(Virgil, Aeneid 2.325)

“We were Trojans, but are not now. Ilium was, but is not.”

Based on my Ph.D in Latin epic poems having watched Michael Wood’s In Search of the Trojan War.

maximus otter
 
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