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The Phantom Helicopter Flap

RaM

Justified & Ancient
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Have done a search and not found anything but not good at driving the search engine,

The phantom helicopter flap happened in the 70's I can remember the reports in news papers
and on tv, at the time helicopters did not usually fly at night I think only 2 both US military
were licenced for night flying many did not believe it was a copter and the reports just seemed
to taper off with no conclusion.

https://drdavidclarke.co.uk/secret-files/secret-files-2/
 
Have done a search and not found anything but not good at driving the search engine,

The phantom helicopter flap happened in the 70's I can remember the reports in news papers
and on tv, at the time helicopters did not usually fly at night I think only 2 both US military
were licenced for night flying many did not believe it was a copter and the reports just seemed
to taper off with no conclusion.

https://drdavidclarke.co.uk/secret-files/secret-files-2/
I get helicopters flying over here at night. Sometimes they just hover in one place.
I guess it's the police just watching the nearby A1, but it can be bloody annoying when I'm in bed trying to sleep.
 
Have done a search and not found anything but not good at driving the search engine,

The phantom helicopter flap happened in the 70's I can remember the reports in news papers
and on tv, at the time helicopters did not usually fly at night I think only 2 both US military
were licenced for night flying many did not believe it was a copter and the reports just seemed
to taper off with no conclusion.

https://drdavidclarke.co.uk/secret-files/secret-files-2/
I wonder what Neilson's solicitor wanted information on them for?
 
I get helicopters flying over here at night. Sometimes they just hover in one place.
I guess it's the police just watching the nearby A1, but it can be bloody annoying when I'm in bed trying to sleep.
Being quite a rural spot we get the air ambulance quite a lot.
And the Duke of Westminster flying to/from his humble little pad up the road.
 
How strange, I was thinking only last night that there wasn't a thread on this.

There was a lot of concern over IRA terrorism at the time which meant that there was substantial official interest in the reports.

The 'helicopter' was occasionally described as a helicopter - but equally often as a light, often seen in weather unsuitable for helicopter flying.
 
I seem to remember at the time some sightings were just lights but always at low level
and some silent but it as always interested me.
 
One point noted by Andy Roberts is that the phantom helicopter sightings ceased, "coincidentally or curiously", immediately after the Berwyn Mountain incident in 1974.

Nick Redfern has tried to argue that people seeing these helicopters could have been spotting exercises by a secret American crash / retrieval team, but as Roberts has convincingly shown, Berwyn was likely not a crash of anything.
 
The night of the Berwyn incident I saw a bullet shaped fire ball heading south over
Bury towards Manchester, it was white at the nose then had bands of blue yellow red
as in heat bands and a flickering tail, this I took to be the thing that crashed at Berwyn,
I was told the day after it had crashed on a Welsh mountain, then later that it had in fact crashed
in the sea,but if this was the object from Berwin it must have made made a change of course
of at least 30%, I had not realised that after Berwin the Helicopter disappeared and find that interesting.
 
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Another reasonable theory put forward elsewhere was that a core of genuine sightings of unmarked 'civilian' helicopters could have been explained by British special forces practising an 'insertion', since they were known to use civilian machines. The occasional reports of a silent helicopter suggest practising of landings using autorotation ,(ie with the engines off).

Either way it seems clear that panic over the helicopter sightings and their possible links to the IRA triggered a 'flap", rather as people started reporting Zeppelins everywhere early in WWI - even when there were no Zeppelins. Of course the helicopters might well have been linked to the IRA in the sense that British special forces were preparing for operations against the IRA, but even the police wouldn't necessarily have known that.
 
David Clarke writing on the subject in UFO Brigantia:



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It sounds to me very much like a mix of things going on. Some sightings of actual helicopters, some imaginary helicopters and panic, and possibly a few 'UFOs' - Clarke speculates there might have been some earthlights, which is perhaps why they disappeared after the Berwyn earth tremor.
 
The night of the Berwyn incident I saw a bullet shaped fire ball heading south over
Bury towards Manchester, it was white at the nose then had bands of blue yellow red
as in heat bands and a flickering tail, this I took to be the thing that crashed at Berwyn,
I was told the day after it had crashed on a Welsh mountain, then later that it had in fact crashed
in the sea,but if this was the object from Berwin it must have made made a change of course
of at least 30%, I had not realised that after Berwin the Helicopter disappeared and find that interesting.

There's a reference in Clarke's article to "brilliant flying objects" seen across North Wales and Merseyside in the period around the earth tremor, including an object seen by the Holyhead coastguard.
 
The Coastguard described it as tadpole shaped and that would fit my sighting
though wile these things are hard to judge I did not think it was so far west..
 
There's a few observations around Berwyn that do suggest an earthlight type phenomenon.

However there were a very small number of genuinely unexplained lights seen that evening. One witness opened her curtains immediately after the tremor to see a ‘big bright glow in the sky over the brow of the hill’. Another saw a ‘glow several times brighter than the sun’ to the south east which ‘came and went’. Maria Williams of Llandrillo saw this white glow at the same time as the poacher’s lights. Some scientists have suggested this short-lived white glow was caused as a result of the huge tectonic stresses involved in the earth-tremor. An earthlight. But witnesses to this were few.

From Andy Roberts' article on Berwyn at:

http://uk-ufo.org/condign/berwart.htm
 
I remember from the 1970s there was a lot of paranoia concerning the creation of the Greater Manchester Police in 1974, a large organisation which introduced some new methods to fight what was seen as rising crime in the region. I'm fairly sure that high-tech, night-flying helicopters would have been useful tools in that fight. Having said that the GMP weren't formed until 1974, so that would rule out some of the earliest sightings.
 
I remember from the 1970s there was a lot of paranoia concerning the creation of the Greater Manchester Police in 1974, a large organisation which introduced some new methods to fight what was seen as rising crime in the region. I'm fairly sure that high-tech, night-flying helicopters would have been useful tools in that fight. Having said that the GMP weren't formed until 1974, so that would rule out some of the earliest sightings.
So... are the helicopters high-tech and night-flyers which the GMP couldn't have employed prior to 1974....dunno what? False radar returns caused by swarms of bees? Please explain. Without having to resort to questioning the mental state of witnesses, Please tell me how normal citizens are unable to recognise normal aircraft.
 
I don’t think it was anything to do with the police it was not like it is now we’re you see several helicopters a day at least we do, most people would not have seen one, and it was the 90,s before we started seeing them at night, now with modern aids and night vision it is still dangerous flying low at night back then was not normal in helicopters
 
So... are the helicopters high-tech and night-flyers which the GMP couldn't have employed prior to 1974.
Since the GMP didn't exist before 1974, they couldn't have deployed any helicopters.
Please tell me how normal citizens are unable to recognise normal aircraft.
If these really were night-flying helicopters in the 1970s, they would have been entirely unfamiliar to 'normal citizens'. I am only putting this forward as a tentative possibility, but maybe the GMP or some other agency were experimenting with night-flying helicopters, possibly equipped with spotlights.

On the other hand, January 1974 is too early for any helicopter operated by the Greater Manchester Police, since that organisation did not yet exist. So Clarke's hypothesis of a 'phantom helicopter flap' looks most likely; these helicopters simply didn't exist at all.
 
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What might be relevant is that the general public might have been quite "helicopter minded" in the period. News stories (like those about police helicopters) and concerns over IRA activity created a fertile ground so that when the police gave details of their own sightings, the public started seeing helicopters, or helicopter-like things, everywhere. As the Magonia article above suggests helicopters and UFOs might occupy a similar place in the human imagination. Maybe there were even some real unmarked helicopters in there, whether private or being secretly operated by special forces.

A few years later the news stories were about flying saucers, and that's what people started to report. The sightings of "lights in the sky" and the possible geological connection is intriguing, though.
 
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Yep I remember that they hijacked the copter and pilot,
I know when the flap was on some did not believe it was a helicopter
though some thought it was someone that had got a copter and was flying
round at night, but for someone untrained to even get it into the air would
be more luck than judgment, and to get away with it for so long without being
caught or killing themselves seems very unlikely.
 
@Spookdaddy might have some good theories and/or knowledge about this.

Not much I'm afraid.

Although I lived bang in the middle of one of the hotspots, I was maybe a bit too young to register any extraneous weirdness among all the general everyday weirdness. Three days weeks, ongoing power cuts, the IRAs first sustained bombing campaign in England; during that period life was odd and stressful all round. Playing snakes and ladders by candlelight with my grandad, home because the power supply to his works was shut off four days a week, while listening to radio reports of bombs going off at Harrod’s and Euston Station - I think if a glowing object had landed in the garden my response would have been: ‘Ooh, look grandad - there's another thing. Anyway....your throw’.

(We tend to decontextualise with hindsight. Or – at least – we tend to see the elements that create that context as optional add-ons, rather than part of the very fabric of our consciousness at the time. Quite frankly, I think the odd UFO or black helicopter would have provided some light relief.)

Around ten years later, my then girlfriend's dad told me about that period. He'd worked the quarries and had been in precisely the same position as the guard mentioned in David Clarke's report (and maybe even the same place): parked up in the dark in a Landrover, 'guarding' explosive stores with a pickaxe handle.

The quarries were still a bit Wild West back then - even a decade or so later, when I worked summers at Hindlow, some pretty unbelievable stuff went on. As he told it, it had only really just registered with quarry admin (probably as a result of the ‘73 bombing campaign) that explosives might be - you know - something they should maybe keep a bit of an eye on. Up to that point it had all been a bit shoddy and unregulated.

There's another thing which is rarely - if ever - mentioned, but which, at least in relation to the Buxton and Peak District sightings, might be a factor.

Mines Research (more precisely - the Safety in Mines Research Establishment) had a base at Harpur Hill in Buxton, right on the edge of the moors. This became the Health and Safety Laboratory in the 90's. This place is not the walking around in hi-vis with a clipboard type H&S – it’s about blowing shit up, dropping stuff on it, setting fire to it and generally seeing what mayhem you can visit on something before it gives up the ghost. Stuff gets tested up there, and some of that stuff is of a sensitive nature. I have absolutely no evidence that it was – but it really would not surprise me at all if the place might have been used as a base for military or police helicopter trials and testing.

It sounds to me very much like a mix of things going on...

Definitely a case of this, I think.
 
...Mines Research (more precisely - the Safety in Mines Research Establishment) had a base at Harpur Hill in Buxton, right on the edge of the moors...

Another factor I forgot to mention is the old RAF Harpur Hill site - once the largest munitions and ordnance dump in the UK. This was no longer an RAF asset by the time of the helicopter flap - and had transferred to business use. But there have always been rumours that some tunnels were not mapped or listed, that stuff was still in there and that some of the old system was covertly operational. I'd bet my last toffee that's just local lore; but, you know - never say never.

The wiki page suggests that the whole site is now operated by HSE Lab - but actually I'm not sure if that's the whole complex, or part of it.

Wiki source: RAF Harpur Hill.
 
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