Ghost In The Machine
Justified & Ancient
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2014
- Messages
- 2,518
- Location
- Yorkshire
1901 census, Marie Fornario, Grandchild, 4, birthplace Egypt, Cairo - living with grandparents Thomas Pratt Ling, 65, retired tea merchant born Norwich, Norfolk and Emily Ada Ling, 60, Grocer, born Bristol Gloucestershire, also living with her uncle Bertram, 26, Manager Tea dealer, worker, born Manchester, Lancs. Their address is Leigham Holme, Streatham,Wandsworth, London. They have 4 servants living in (or indoors on census night) and others in a Leigham Holme Stables. Couple of the servants from Norfolk so they're probably family retainers.
A few of the linked blogs say she was brought up by her English grandparents after her mum died around 1898.
Born in Cairo, you can see why she was attracted to Golden Dawn.
1911 Census, Marie is a border in a posh girls' academy in Eastbourne. Her name now given as Marie Norah Fornario. So although there seems some confusion around her forenames, she was Marie Norah. The school is run by a woman called Marguerite des Ruelles (born in London)
Marriage Index does have a Maria Fornari marrying in April - June quarter, 1920 in Lambeth. Name of person married: Zanotti. Slightly different name so may not be our woman. But worth noting and would be remiss of me not to. Free BMD tells us a Maria Fornari married Settimio Zanotti in Lambeth in June 1920. Probate calendar has a Settimio Zanotti dying in 1962. A City Directory for 1930 tells me he was then living at 83 Southwold Mansions Widley Rd, W9. In 1935, he's at another address in W9. You can get a sense of Southwold Mansions here:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/109860584#/?channel=RES_BUY
The fact he is in a directory as a private resident, and going by the look of that address - I'd say he was about the right level for our woman, maybe. He may have come to England post 1911 as I can't find him on a census.
He may be nothing to do with our story, but you never know. When I can access 1921 census (I'm on Ancestry not Find My Past so it might be a while, yet), I will go looking for them as even if they separated before she died, she might still be with him in 1921. And of course, Maria Fornari is likely not the same woman as Marie Fornario - but I have seen them get Italian names wrong around this time, in London as my kids have Italian ancestors at this date also in London.
In the 1871, Thomas Pratt Ling has a 6 year old daughter, Nora (sic in 1871 census). Norah Edith Ling married Guiseppe Nicola Raimondo Fornario in Lambeth 7/9/1893. His residence at time of marriage was given as Naples - and the newspaper's marriage announcement says he was from the Hospital Gesu e Maria, Naples and he was an M.D. So maybe there is a chance Maria Fornari is the same woman as Marie Fornario, as Marie's mother had a Lambeth connection. (And as she may not have had a birth certificate, presumably a slight change of name might mean nobody would know she was married?) Probably just a coincidence but I mention this in the interests of covering anything relevant.
Around 3 years later when Marie was born they were in Cairo.
A newspaper search for Marie Fornario pulls up this bit of paydirt... I think we can safely say Marie was acting all mystical as early as 1909.
"RELIGIOUS TEST IN A WILL
Mr Thomas Ling, a merchant, of Breacondale, Dorking, in leaving £12,000 to his grand-daughter, Marie Fornario, stipulated that she shall not forsake the English Protestant faith, not marry a person not of that faith and not marry a first cousin, under penalty of losing one half of the bequest."
Western Gazette, April 16, 1909.
Ooh, wonder if her cousin's name was Zanotti? Certainly looks like grandad had already clocked her esoteric tendencies - and in 1909 she was only a young teenager. Interesting that he failed to stop his daughter Norah marrying an Italian Catholic but he went for it with Marie...
In a newspaper piece of 1929:
"...Miss Fornario, who was thirty years of age, was the daughter of an Italian doctor living in Italy, but she always expressed her hatred of Italy and would see no Italians..."
[SAW AMAZING VISIONS - Woman Who Fasted And Went Into Trances, Aberdeen Journal, Nov 27, 1929].
This brief piece does mention her being found in a cross cut into turf and is only ten days after the event so the account we have here saying that was made up later, may not be accurate.
(If she was hoping to marry a cousin who wasn't a Protestant, as a teenager, then this anti-Italian sentiment may have been a more recent thing... But it looks like she had daddy issues, tbh).
Her probate says her estate totalled:
£424 18s 6d
I wonder if she did indeed inherit the £12,000? (Or £6000), in 1909?
It also lists her as "spinster" which may mean the Maria Fornari marriage of 1920 is nothing to do with our woman. Although I can't find a death for a Marie or Maria Zanotti - with such an unusual surname would expect that to be easy to find.
ETA: Had to wait up til 2AM as son getting back from Milano! (Not a fashion maven - football). So thought I'd keep myself awake with a bit of genealogy.
A few of the linked blogs say she was brought up by her English grandparents after her mum died around 1898.
Born in Cairo, you can see why she was attracted to Golden Dawn.
1911 Census, Marie is a border in a posh girls' academy in Eastbourne. Her name now given as Marie Norah Fornario. So although there seems some confusion around her forenames, she was Marie Norah. The school is run by a woman called Marguerite des Ruelles (born in London)
Marriage Index does have a Maria Fornari marrying in April - June quarter, 1920 in Lambeth. Name of person married: Zanotti. Slightly different name so may not be our woman. But worth noting and would be remiss of me not to. Free BMD tells us a Maria Fornari married Settimio Zanotti in Lambeth in June 1920. Probate calendar has a Settimio Zanotti dying in 1962. A City Directory for 1930 tells me he was then living at 83 Southwold Mansions Widley Rd, W9. In 1935, he's at another address in W9. You can get a sense of Southwold Mansions here:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/109860584#/?channel=RES_BUY
The fact he is in a directory as a private resident, and going by the look of that address - I'd say he was about the right level for our woman, maybe. He may have come to England post 1911 as I can't find him on a census.
He may be nothing to do with our story, but you never know. When I can access 1921 census (I'm on Ancestry not Find My Past so it might be a while, yet), I will go looking for them as even if they separated before she died, she might still be with him in 1921. And of course, Maria Fornari is likely not the same woman as Marie Fornario - but I have seen them get Italian names wrong around this time, in London as my kids have Italian ancestors at this date also in London.
In the 1871, Thomas Pratt Ling has a 6 year old daughter, Nora (sic in 1871 census). Norah Edith Ling married Guiseppe Nicola Raimondo Fornario in Lambeth 7/9/1893. His residence at time of marriage was given as Naples - and the newspaper's marriage announcement says he was from the Hospital Gesu e Maria, Naples and he was an M.D. So maybe there is a chance Maria Fornari is the same woman as Marie Fornario, as Marie's mother had a Lambeth connection. (And as she may not have had a birth certificate, presumably a slight change of name might mean nobody would know she was married?) Probably just a coincidence but I mention this in the interests of covering anything relevant.
Around 3 years later when Marie was born they were in Cairo.
A newspaper search for Marie Fornario pulls up this bit of paydirt... I think we can safely say Marie was acting all mystical as early as 1909.
"RELIGIOUS TEST IN A WILL
Mr Thomas Ling, a merchant, of Breacondale, Dorking, in leaving £12,000 to his grand-daughter, Marie Fornario, stipulated that she shall not forsake the English Protestant faith, not marry a person not of that faith and not marry a first cousin, under penalty of losing one half of the bequest."
Western Gazette, April 16, 1909.
Ooh, wonder if her cousin's name was Zanotti? Certainly looks like grandad had already clocked her esoteric tendencies - and in 1909 she was only a young teenager. Interesting that he failed to stop his daughter Norah marrying an Italian Catholic but he went for it with Marie...
In a newspaper piece of 1929:
"...Miss Fornario, who was thirty years of age, was the daughter of an Italian doctor living in Italy, but she always expressed her hatred of Italy and would see no Italians..."
[SAW AMAZING VISIONS - Woman Who Fasted And Went Into Trances, Aberdeen Journal, Nov 27, 1929].
This brief piece does mention her being found in a cross cut into turf and is only ten days after the event so the account we have here saying that was made up later, may not be accurate.
(If she was hoping to marry a cousin who wasn't a Protestant, as a teenager, then this anti-Italian sentiment may have been a more recent thing... But it looks like she had daddy issues, tbh).
Her probate says her estate totalled:
£424 18s 6d
I wonder if she did indeed inherit the £12,000? (Or £6000), in 1909?
It also lists her as "spinster" which may mean the Maria Fornari marriage of 1920 is nothing to do with our woman. Although I can't find a death for a Marie or Maria Zanotti - with such an unusual surname would expect that to be easy to find.
ETA: Had to wait up til 2AM as son getting back from Milano! (Not a fashion maven - football). So thought I'd keep myself awake with a bit of genealogy.
Last edited:
