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Thornborough: Stonehenge Of The North!?

gyrtrash

gyrtrash

Gone But Not Forgotten
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Joined
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Whilst doing some reading I came across a reference to a henge complex not far from home. With my interest aroused, I set off a few weekends ago to have a look and take some pics.
I wasn’t expecting much, I’d never heard of the place before.

I was amazed!
Three huge henges in alignment, with avenues and pit alignments too!

http://thornborough.ncl.ac.uk/

http://museums.ncl.ac.uk/thornborough/main.htm

http://www.friendsofthornborough.org/


“The monument complex at Thornborough, North Yorkshire, is an archaeological landscape of regional, national and international importance. The unparalleled cluster of three massive henges, in association with other Neolithic-early Bronze Age monuments and extensive traces of contemporary settlement represent what would have been one of Britain's premier "sacred landscapes" during the third and second millennium BC.”

“Only four sites in the British Isles are larger - all in Wiltshire and Dorset - and nowhere else are there three closely spaced and identical henge monuments.”


Have any FTMB readers visited the site? Or heard of any legends surrounding the place?

Also;-

How many more sites are there that are little reported?

Anyone got any local knowledge to impart? Let us in on your ‘hidden gems’?!
 
I've not made it to Thornborough yet, but its on my list of sites to visit next time I'm up North.

A bit further to the East is my old neck of the woods, and there's a lot of good stuff to be found in the valley of the Gypsey Race , near Bridlington. The Rudston Monolith is pretty well known (and damned impressive to boot), but the evidence suggests that this was the centre of a major prehistoric ceremonial complex, As well as a smaller standing stone near the churchyard wall, there are no less than four cursuses aligned on the Monolith, and there's a henge somewhere nearby too. Sadly, there's nothing visible on the ground, but crop markings have shown where they are. Those Victorian farmers have got a lot to answer for:mad:

There are also dozens of round barrows scattered about the Wolds, but most of them have been ploughed out as well. The huge mound of Willy Howe managed to escape, presumably because it was far too big. There are the slightly smaller, but still pretty impressive mounds of Duggleby Howe and Ba'l Hill in the area too. There's some good info and pictures on the Modern Antiquarian site (see link above).

My favourite site in the area is defensive, and one which seems relatively little known. Its Danes Dyke , which runs across the West of Flamborough Head, cutting off the landward side of the headland. Originally assumed to be the work of the Vikings (the area was known as Little Denmark in the 19th Century), the Dyke is now thought to be much older. As a kid, I loved visiting here, especially the swing rope that hung from a tree branch over the ditch!

Edit: forgot to add a plea for info on a site down here in Somerset I've noticed whilst looking at maps - Priddy Circles. On the OS maps, they look like three large henge-type earthworks in a row, but I've never heard of them. Is there anything there worth seeing? I might make a detour next time I go up to Stanton Drew!
 
Johnnyboy - Yeah, that's an oft-forgotten valley that's well worth exploring! I went meself a few months ago and took SOME PICS!
I'm in that part of the county later this month, I'll check out the Dane's Dyke! :yeay:

Epona - I saw the gravel extraction and the adjacent landfill site :confused: :hmph: I can't believe that this could be allowed to happen!

(Attachment shows the size of central henge, I think the body of water in the background is one of the flooded gravel pits?)
 
This is the real 'Yorkshire Stonehenge' Whizzer!:D

The plight of the site is making national news...

24hourmuseum

There's a SmartGroup to join too if you want to keep up to date...
 
'Time Flyers' on BBC2, 7:30 pm, 4 November 2003, concentrates on the Thronborough Henge complex.

The entire area is seriously under threat from quarrying, that could destroy vital elements of the complex...

Radio Times;-

"Investigating the arrangement of giant earthworks, banks and ditches that dominates a wide swathe of the landscape of North Yorkshire and stretches for over a mile."


TV & Satellite Week;-

"The team travels to North Yorkshire to investigate an arrangement of giant earthworks, banks and ditches, known as the Stonehenge of the North."


Gotta be worth a watchin'!

:D
 
Interesting; I hadn't heard about the Thornborough complex, although we drive past it quite often;

whenever the family ventures out to the Dales or the Wolds we say hallo to the Devil's Arrows, Rudston Monolith, Willy Howe or Duggleby Howe; but these rings are well off the road, it seems, so we haven't been there.

Is there access for the public? Or should we keep away to avoid damaging the circles?
 
Eburacum45 said:
Is there access for the public? Or should we keep away to avoid damaging the circles?
Click to expand...


Weeeell, they are on private land. But the northern henge (best preserved, covered by woodland!) is right by the roadside and easy to explore. The central henge is through a gate and about 10 metres from a road, but the southern henge is in the middle of a field.
Given that the landowner doesn't seem to care about them, and that people may be hit in their pockets if the surrounding land is quarried, it's probabley best to avoid confrontation by tresspassing!

Having said that, it's up to the individual. They can all be viewed from public roads, are well worth visiting and I've never had any problems from irate landowners! :)


Heey! Maybe a 'mass tresspass' is just what's needed to bring this site's situation to wider public awareness :D :yeay:
 
I'd never heard of the Thornborough complex before either but I shall definitely visit.

Also worth a visit and close to Thornborough is the Druid's Circle in Ilton, about 5 miles or so from Masham. It's a folly built in the 1800's in woodland and on a hill overlooking Leighton reservoir. Well worth a visit IMHO. Web site with a couple of photos here.

This site has some directions and a walk that takes in the circle en route. http://www.thisisyork.co.uk/york/leisure/YORK_LEISURE_COUNTRYWALKSOLD0.html
 
Is this the place - there's something on TV tonight about it:

Time Flyers

Tue 4 Nov, 19:30 - 20:00 30 mins

The Stonehenge Of The North

Time Flyers travels to North Yorkshire, to check out what's being called The Stonehenge of the North. The team investigates the arrangement of giant earthworks, banks and ditches that dominates a wide swathe of the landscape and stretches for over a mile.

The team discovers three massive amphitheatres built over 5000 years ago, which attracted Neolithic pilgrims from all over Britain. Archaeologists have recently discovered an extraordinary astronomical link to the stars - making this one of Britain's first temples to the heavens.
 
JerryB said:
Is this the place - there's something on TV tonight about it:

Time Flyers

Tue 4 Nov, 19:30 - 20:00 30 mins

The Stonehenge Of The North
Click to expand...

Er, yeah!

That's what I said 5 posts back! :rolleyes: :D


You really must pay attention Jerry! (But thanks for the reminder!) :p
 
David Raven said:
'Time Flyers' on BBC2, 7:30 pm, 4 November 2003, concentrates on the Thronborough Henge complex.

The entire area is seriously under threat from quarrying, that could destroy vital elements of the complex...

Radio Times;-

"Investigating the arrangement of giant earthworks, banks and ditches that dominates a wide swathe of the landscape of North Yorkshire and stretches for over a mile."

TV & Satellite Week;-

"The team travels to North Yorkshire to investigate an arrangement of giant earthworks, banks and ditches, known as the Stonehenge of the North."

Gotta be worth a watchin'!

:D
Click to expand...

Thanks!

Kind regards,

Garry W. Denke
Geologist/Geophysicist

:)
 
Just watched Time Fliers...

It's pointed out that the pattern of the monuments matched the spacing and the slightly bent line of the belt of Orion, which would also have been framed through the entrances to the Henges at its rising from late August...actually they could probably tie the dates down tighter than this, but it was short programme that covered a lot of ground.

It'd be interesting to know more about the trade in axes from Cumbria, and why (though it can be only speculation) such valuable objects were deliberately buried.

Neolithic society looks a whole lot more organised than the old idea of subsistence farming as there had to be a highly organised society to build the earthworks originally, and there was obviously countrywide trade and probably cultural and religious links.

Sad to think that some people just see these sites as a quarry.
 
The resemblance to Orion's Belt struck me when I first saw David Raven's aerial pictures above;

hello, I thought, there's Alnitak, Alnilam and Mintaka again...

still doesn't prove anything much; these henges were built a thousand years before the pyramids, and the pattern could simply be a chance resemblance;

probably is, actually;

but there you go.
 
Eburacum45 said:
still doesn't prove anything much; these henges were built a thousand years before the pyramids, and the pattern could simply be a chance resemblance;

probably is, actually;

but there you go.
Click to expand...

Right, let's start an alternative history theory, that it was astronomer priests from Britain who travelled to the south and taught the Egyptians everything they knew about astronomy, and influenced the siting of the Giza pyramids.........if someone hasn't done it already. ;)

Actually, thinking about it in 'Uriel's Machine' Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas proposed that the astronomical chapters in the 'Book of Enoch' were based on British and Orcadian sites....so perhaps the link between Britain and the Middle East has already been made.

I must try and get up to Thornborough, while it's still there to see.

BTW: if anyone wants to look for Orion's belt in ancient sites, there's also the Balnuaran of Clava, near Inverness two passage cairns and ring cairn, with some astronomical alignments arranged in a not quite straight line.
 
Eburacum45 said:
The resemblance to Orion's Belt struck me when I fisrt saw Davis Raven's aerial pictures above;

hello, I thought, there's Alnitak, Alnilam and Mintaka again...

still doesn't prove anything much; these henges were built a thousand years before the pyramids, and the pattern could simply be a chance resemblance;

probably is, actually;

but there you go.
Click to expand...
Yes. It's interesting you're not saying, "These henges were built a thousand years before the pyramids and the pattern could well have been created in imitation of Orion's Belt, rather than being merely a chance resemblance!"

:p
 
I like your theory Timble!

Timble said:
Actually, thinking about it in 'Uriel's Machine' Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas proposed that the astronomical chapters in the 'Book of Enoch' were based on British and Orcadian sites....so perhaps the link between Britain and the Middle East has already been made.

I must try and get up to Thornborough, while it's still there to see.

BTW: if anyone wants to look for Orion's belt in ancient sites, there's also the Balnuaran of Clava, near Inverness two passage cairns and ring cairn, with some astronomical alignments arranged in a not quite straight line.
Click to expand...

Would that be the Robert Lomas who keeps the Masonic Special Collection at Bradford Uni?
( http://www.brad.ac.uk/webofhiram/ )


If you, or anyone else, decides to make a trip tp find it, I'd be happy to show them the place. Email me off my website.

Maybe there're ancient monuments echoing Orions Belt on every continent (Are the distances between the sites to scale?).

Or maybe we are all descended from the star people of Orion?!:p


(It's DAVID not Davis, Ebur! ) :rolleyes: :D
 
On Orion worship;

obviously I am interested in the subject of this constellation, given the name of our website :)

but the fact that any particular three objects in a row resemble the belt of Orion does not really give very much information about that society or any possible relationship with other societies, contemporary or not.

I personally would not be surprised that many cultures around the world in the past have become aware of this striking pattern of stars that light up our winter sky;
observing Orion will give a reliable calendar for seasonal activities, and the same is true os the star Sirius nearby; the Belt stars in fact point toward Sirius, in one of the most famous 'asterisms' or star patterns other than constellations per se.

But unfortunately any association between patterns on the ground (or designs on artifacts) and the Belt stars, or any other celestial phenomena, is speculation; and can never be used to prove anything definite, IMO.

It is entertaining, but I can't see how it can be of use in real archaeology.
 
It Does Just What It Says On The Tin!

Eburacum45 said:
But unfortunately any association between patterns on the ground (or designs on artifacts) and the Belt stars, or any other celestial phenomena, is speculation; and can never be used to prove anything definite, IMO.

It is entertaining, but I can't see how it can be of use in real archaeology.
Click to expand...
Runs round to front of Site.

Checks...

Hey! Eburacum45, this is a 'Fortean' Website...

We're supposed to speculate!

:p
 
oops- so it is;

apologies!

Hey - there might be some sort of statistical test that could show that the Orion Belt pattern happens more often than chance;
unfortunately this is the only three-henge-in-a-row monument I have heard of,
but it might be possible to test any sets of three artifacts (?barrows? standing stones?) found together to see how often they are placed in this apparently deliberate pattern.

I thought it might have been something to do with the local topography but there isn't anything to explain it on the map...
 
I was wondering if Orion's belt could be applied to the Priddy Circles I mentioned in my earlier post, but looking at a large scale map I've realised that there's actually a fourth circle, three-quarters destroyed, in alignment with the other three. I've found a bit more information on them since then, most notably at the Somerset HER Site.

On one of the individual entries for each circle, I found this snippet:

Many of the surface depressions in and around the Priddy Circles are natural sinkholes, not mine workings as had been assumed. Unsatisfactory ground conditions (the ground remained liable to subsidence) may have been one of the factors that led to the abandonment of the whole ceremonial site before the circles were completed.
Click to expand...

Which could be coincidence, but according to the Time Flyers show, the area around Thornborough is similarly prone to susidence and great holes appearing due to the Gypsum. Maybe we should start calling Priddy the "Thornborough of the South";)

Strangely enough, I still I haven't been able to find any photos of the Priddy Circles on the web, except for one fuzzy shot taken from inside the bank on the Modern Antiquarian site. If I get up there one day I'll remember to take my camera!
 
I was disappointed they didn't mention the threat to the site from quarrying, on the programme.

I took this pic just over a week ago, it shows the henge bank and the ridculous proximity of the landfill site.
The biggest 'Earth Mystery' is how this was allowed so close to the henge!
 
Priddy Circles

This is the only shot I've managed to get of the Circles,this is the southernmost circle from the outside (its the vague bank looking thing in the distance). The henges are all under a modern field system and are crossed with hedges which makes photographing them more difficult. You would only be able to see them properly from the air, I have seen pics in books,there may be something on the net. They are on private land and are not signposted but the owners seem resigned to people visiting them as there is a message on the gate asking people to be careful not to let the horses out.
 
Thanks for those Marion! :yeay: I'll have to try to get up there soon for a look at them and at the Nine Barrows too. Shame they're chopped up inside though. Plenty more to see round here too!
 
Thornborough's glowing rings!

I'd been told before about this, but the programme reminded me.

The thought that the henges could flouresce is pretty mindblowing!
Imagine standing inside the massive circular arena at night, with Orion cruising into sight, the henge banks gently glowing! Just you and the night sky, surrounded by an illuminated circle. Could this really occur?

(Wasn't Silbury Hill of a similar material. Imagine, a glowing white hill! :eek!!!!: Maybe there was a theme to this? A band of monument builders that travelled the country using the same techniques for creating important sites?)
 
Bump!

http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=55&ArticleID=752638
Mystery of sacred site shaped by stars

Thornborough is the only triple henge complex in the world and the only one to share the same astronomical alignment as the pyramids at Giza in Egypt.

A recent theory is that the henges' alignment may follow that of Orion's Belt in the constellation of Orion.
Brian Dooks

The site, which may have been chosen because of its proximity to the River Ure, was first used about 3500BC and it continued to be a centre for religious ritual worship, drawing pilgrims from across the North, at least until 2500BC.
The henges are one of the largest earthmoving projects undertaken by Neolithic man. Together with other henges at Nunwick, Hutton Moor and Cana Barn, near Ripon, plus the Devil's Arrows at Roecliffe, near Boroughbridge, they form one of Britain's premier sacred sites.
Superficial investigations of the site took place in the late 19th century but the henges were largely ignored by archaeologists until 1994, when a team from Newcastle University launched an intensive research project, which still continues under senior lecturer Jan Harding.
Worked flints from the Pennines and the Yorkshire coast have been discovered there along with axeheads from Langdale in Cumbria.
Dr Harding says the henges are a mirror image of Orion in its highest position with the southern entrances framing Sirius as it appeared over the horizon.
If the banks were covered in gypsum, as some excavations suggest, they would have appeared silvery white in the moonlight.
The Friends of Thornborough – http://www.friendsofthornborough.org – say that after years of neglect, including the use of the central henge as an ammunition store in the Second World War, their setting is now threatened by an extension to Nosterfield sand and gravel quarry.

08 March 2004
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