Tony Blair is secretly a Marxist.

[Justin_Anstey]

I think he might actually believe in Marxism and particually the idea of society progressively evolving toward communism. He thinks he is simply seeing us through the capitalist stage.

-J

 

[JamesWhitehead]

Hard to relate Blair to Marx. The weirdness of New Labour is
surely that it represents a textbook application of Gramsci's
heresy: existing institutions could be taken
over and run more effectively in the name of New Labour than
Conservatism.

Marx would have recognized that Capital had merely donned a new
disguise. The notion of deep cover applied to Marxism is appealing
to conspiracists but welding together a revolutionary force means
raising consciousness. Very hard to associate Blair with any move
towards that.

His beliefs can only be conjectured. His actions suggest he is an
opportunist and slogan-maker who survives because of the collapse
of the opposition.

His recent representation as an International figure appears to be a
black joke of the UK press and media. :cross eye

 

[bagins_X]

I think he might actually believe in Marxism and particually the idea of society progressively evolving toward communism.

In which case I think there is somone in a grave in Highgate that is spinning so fast you could them to generate quite alot of electric power!

Wm.

 

[Anonymous]

There's an old Trotsyist belief that the best way to psark a revolution is to create the most repressive and economically unfair government possible.
But I go with Mr Whitehead. New Labour is a classic example of replacing an established hegemony with a brand new hegemony, or in other words, you don't overthrow the establishment, you become the establishment.

 

[Anonymous]

Ha! Blair an marxist?!

Then I would call Milton Friedman(the economic nobel price winner) an marxist as well!

 

[DerekH16]

........you don't overthrow the establishment, you become the establishment.

"Here comes the new boss, Same as the old boss" - 'Won't get fooled again' by The Who.

Except, of course, that in the 31 years since that song was written (God, I feel old!), we have been. Repeatedly.

I'll shut up now, before I start ranting about ........

 

[Pete Younger]

Listen you lot, our American cousins love our tone, so he must be alright...alright.

 

[Anonymous]

'I think the puppet on the left shares my beliefs..I think the puppet on the right is more to my liking. Wait, hey, hey, there's the same guy pulling both strings'.
The late, great Bill Hicks.

 

[Anonymous]

Hes got doublethink mastered, Afghan religous dictatorship bad, Saudi religious dictatorship good. He seems to actually believe world poverty can be ended by an efficient management of Capitalism, this is completely opposed to Marxist theory (common sense, the evidence of your own eyes etc etc). Hes a very clever bloke but i think hes very naive. Hes a typical rightwing populist, telling everyone were all on the same side and have to all pull together to make Britain great but demanding all the sacrifices from the poor. Unusually tho i think he believes the sh1t that he says, v dangerous.

 

[mejane]

Yep, Blair's a closet Marxist and Bush (baby) is god's gift to the anti-gun lobby... They're both lizards too.

Jane.

(joking!)

 

[NilesCalder]

"Here comes the new boss, Same as the old boss" - 'Won't get fooled again' by The Who.

Yeah I remember singing it when Blair was first elected, and every time since.

Except, of course, that in the 31 years since that song was written (God, I feel old!), we have been. Repeatedly.

I'll shut up now, before I start ranting about ........

Don't stop now DerekH, if we don't vent some speen every now and then we can explode from the pressure.

Also (damn, I knew I should have bought the new Transmet TP today) I recall a quote, something dating back to 1919. The general jist is this: The most dangerous man to any government is one who is not only prepare to think for themselves and not believe whatever they may be told is the truth without finding it for themselves, but also one who is prepared to step outside convention and act upon their convictions. For, even if they are unable to change things, they will inspire others to do so.

So what's on your mind, monkey boy?

Niles "Two Fisted Author" Calder

 

[carole]

My friend in New York thinks he's cute! cross eye )

I can't see him as a Marxist. He's a hypocritical control freak who has a tantrum when he can't get his own way. "Do as I say, not do as I do" is his motto.

And I've never forgiven him and his letterbox-mouthed wife for getting rid of Humphrey . . .

:hmph:

Carole

 

[Anonymous]

Stange..all thro the first election i was pinning my hopes on Blair and cronies lieing to get elected and they realy were socialists,,,, funny hopeing a poiliticien is lieing to u ah....bugger he wasnt!...

 

[DerekH16]

....funny hopeing a poiliticien is lieing to u ...

Alec Salmond (former leader of the SNP): How do you tell when a politician's lying?

Angus Deayton (for it was he): I don't know. How?

AS: His lips are moving.

....The most dangerous man to any government is one who is not only prepare to think for themselves and not believe whatever they may be told is the truth without finding it for themselves, but also one who is prepared to step outside convention and act upon their convictions. For, even if they are unable to change things, they will inspire others to do so. ...

...And, currently, the greatest opposition to 'I'm Tory plan B's' government seems to come from his own back benches.

(Spleen venting........ )

 

[Pete Younger]

Alec Salmond (former leader of the SNP): How do you tell when a politician's lying?

Angus Deayton (for it was he): I don't know. How?

AS: His lips are moving.



...And, currently, the greatest opposition to 'I'm Tory plan B's' government seems to come from his own back benches.

(Spleen venting........ )

At least their vocalizations are allowed to be heard, that was never the case with conservative governments.

 

[DerekH16]

At least their vocalizations are allowed to be heard, that was never the case with conservative governments.

True. But credit where credit's due - Maggie T told the nation that she (and her party, at least the ones who wanted cabinet jobs) were out and out capitalists, and they were. Love 'em or hate 'em, we were told the truth. And then the b*st*rds did us.

(Not a Tory DH!)

 

[Anonymous]

Blair vs Thatcher

My experience of etended periods of unemployment in the 1980s and a couple of years back brings out the contrast beautifully.





Under Mrs T, we were dole scum and nobody made any bones about it; we were made to queue up in dismal buildings to speak to a vicious hearltess bastard behind a plate-glass window, and eventually we might get a derisory sum of money.

Under President Blair, it was all very happy clappy, pastel colour schemes and "Charters". Everyone was very charming and sympathetic and utterly unhelpful because the people who made the decision were at the other end of the country and never sxeemed to answer the phone. It took six months to extract any money from them. However, I was left to starve in a very caring way.

Tony Blair is to Marxism what Stephen Hawking is to tap-dancing.

 

[Anonymous]

TMJ... U dont have to tell me about it... its just i have seens civilisation rolled up eaten and quite frankly crapped out on top of me for sooooo long... Im like Yosarian (catch22) i want to be somwhere with at least a slight illusion of safety........... tramp the earth down......................

 

[harlequin2005]

Re: Blair vs Thatcher

My experience of etended periods of unemployment in the 1980s and a couple of years back brings out the contrast beautifully.
Under Mrs T, we were dole scum and nobody made any bones about it; we were made to queue up in dismal buildings to speak to a vicious hearltess bastard behind a plate-glass window, and eventually we might get a derisory sum of money.
Under President Blair, it was all very happy clappy, pastel colour schemes and "Charters". Everyone was very charming and sympathetic and utterly unhelpful because the people who made the decision were at the other end of the country and never sxeemed to answer the phone. It took six months to extract any money from them. However, I was left to starve in a very caring way.

Tony Blair is to Marxism what Stephen Hawking is to tap-dancing.

Being picky... didn't the charter shite all start under the Major administration (John MAJOR - the greatest british PM between the Thatcher and the Blair eras)?

It was about that time things like the 'cone hotline' and sundry other wastes of space were generated.

One other queston in the SALMOND-DEYTON exchange... AS' lips were moving. AS is a politician (albeit retired) Therefore he was lying, which meant he was telling the truth, which meant... Which just proves there is nothing new under the sun and chances are the greeks did if first

8¬)

 

[Anonymous]

I think he might actually believe in Marxism and particually the idea of society progressively evolving toward communism.

Marxists believe that revolution is needed to achieve communism, not some form of evolution.

If you think that Blair believes that the workers should control the means of production, distribution and exchange, I'm sorry but you're deluded. He's explicitly said that he believes in a so-called '3rd way' between capitalism and socialism. 'New Labour' got rid of even the namby-pamby socialist aspirations of Clause 4.

Blair has slagged off trades unionists and public sector workers while cosying up to the owners of mega-corporations. He's been Bush's poodle post Sept. 11.

The guy's a f**king T*ry!

 

[Anonymous]

john Major!... i said it at the time but it was as if Hitler was asasinated and himmler was incharge..ie the followers were if anything worse than the originater......... i hate then all...

 

[DerekH16]

Re: Re: Blair vs Thatcher

...One other queston in the SALMOND-DEYTON exchange... AS' lips were moving. AS is a politician (albeit retired) Therefore he was lying, which meant he was telling the truth, which meant...

..... which meant he's one of that rare breed, a politician with a sense of humour (even about politics!)

(BTW, not retired, just stood down as party chairman)

 

[brianellwood]

"history will teach us nothing." Sting.
at least, not the electorate and not in politics!
Blair made his policies evident before the election if you looked closely...so I voted green rather than throw away my rights, hard earned long ago.

 

[Anonymous]

Oh yes! In no small measure...

John Major!... i said it at the time but it was as if Hitler was asasinated and himmler was incharge

I always had him down as Eichmann - the banality of evil, and all that. Actually Major was just out of his depth, and frankly I felt rather sorry for him.

 

[Pete Younger]

Re: Oh yes! In no small measure...

Actually Major was just out of his depth, and frankly I felt rather sorry for him.

Me too, John Major was a gentleman and imho an honest man but the conservative back stabbers had their way and look where that led them.

 

[harlequin2005]

I always felt that John Major was to the role of Prime Minister what John Paul I was to the papacy.... an abberation

As to AS having a SOH... he is a politician, and despite what I'd like to believe, I'm with Douglas Adams... anyone who wants power is the least suited to having it.

I'm sure there are great and noble people involved in politics. The chances of it happpening in my time are so remote as to be infinitesimal. In the final analysis we choose the lies we like the best


8¬)

 

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by wintermute


Marxists believe that revolution is needed to achieve communism, not some form of evolution.


I believe he was referring to Lenins' theories of social evolution from tribal,feudal,capitalist,and on and on to the"workers utopia".

 

[Anonymous]

John Major was a gentleman and imho an honest man but the conservative back stabbers had their way and look where that led them.

First - I'd like to agree with that. He was clearly a decent bloke. Shafted by the people around him and by a smug press which sought an easy target. He wasn't good at handling the media. He shouldn't have needed to be good at that.

As for Blair being a Marxist. Well anyone who understands history will understand that Marxism quite simply never existed. Marx never expressed anything in terms of an 'ism and never set out such a thing. There is no Marxism as such ... only many different readings of what Marx wrote. Anyone who was ever vaguely involved with the old left will know for certain that Marxism is a non issue. Marxism only exists as an historical perspective on history and economics.

Sadly - for the last 60 or more years - polytechnic & school history has been taught from what would once have been called a Marxist - Leninist perspective. The current teachers were taught by people who were taught by people who were infected with that certain way of thinking. Now they don't even realise that the version of history they teach basically derives from a form of propoganda/ structuralism.

As for Blair. I think he's also a basically decent bloke. Probably some kind of Alpha-style Christian. So I wouldn't agree with him but I can see where he comes from.

Since Marxism never existed as a theory - then if you believed that Blair was a Marxist you would have to ask yourself what you meant by that.

 

[intaglio]

I think the closest Tone has ever been to Marxism was the old 70's T-shirt slogan "Je suis Marxiste - Tendence Groucho"

Blairs greatest strength has always been his opponents weakness. Major, Haig and now IDS were never going to play Disraeli to Blair's Gladstone or even Heath to TB's Wilson.

 

[Anonymous]

Marxism

"All I know is that I am not a Marxist" -- Karl Marx

Could be President Blur speaking... spooky.