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Unsuitable Advertisements In The Magazine (Fortean Times)

Are some of the adverts in FT unsuitable, and are you offended by them ?

  • Yes, I find a lot of the adverts offensive/in bad taste.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Most are OK, but 'Faces of Death' takes the biscuit.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • They are all OK.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I don't care about the content of the Ads.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The ads are mainly crud but 'F.O.D.' is also vilely offensive, possibly to the point of illegality

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
  • Poll closed .
escargot said:
It's a question of marketing. I look at the ads in the FT and think, there's not a solitary thing here that I'd buy. :(

How can a magazine be so right editorially and so wrong in other ways? Answer: the 'reader profile' is wrong. Probably has been for some time.

Maybe your idea of it's reader profile is too optimistic. A friend of mine the other day referred to it as more of a magazine for lads!

I think if you researched the true market, the middle aged, high-brow consumer would not be represented in any great scale. As much as you hope for FT to be a shining beacon for intellectual debate on the fortean, the public perception is that its a mag full of "weird stuff and funny stories" and sells a lot in the low-brow vein. These adverts reflect that and, as mentioned above, wouldn't have continued presence if they didn't bring in some sort of revenue.
 
Advertising: it's my fault!

Right, OK, here's your chance. I am the person responsible for all the ads in Fortean Times and I thought it was time I poked my head above the parapet given the strong feelings my 'input' causes on this site and elsewhere. It does go on a bit but I thought I should deal with as many of the issues in one go as possible to give you as good an idea of what and why as I can.

Over the last 3 years I have come to appreciate that FT is different in many ways to almost any other magazine. Largely this is due to the very close 'relationship' its readers (you) have with the mag which is borne out by this website, word of mouth, results of the reader survey etc etc. As you all know, much of FT is provided by its readers from Strange Days to the letters and many of the features themselves. Whilst the readers are any magazine's lifeblood, I believe this is even more true in FT's case. So my first point is that I do not work in a commercial vacuum and do have some understanding of FT's history and readership.

OK onto the ads. My job is to maximise revenue from advertising (display, classified, inserts and online) and in so doing bring in an agreed amount of money. In order to do this I have 13 pages give or take to fill each issue. The money I generate is a fundamental part of the magazine's yearly income which consequently is fundamental in producing the product you enjoy so much. Sadly adverts are a necessary evil for FT to continue in its present format.

However it is also very important for me to find advertisers whose products are relevant to the readers and whose copy makes the ad pages as attractive as possible and which enhances the overall look of the magazine. In that regard I do feel that since August 2001 I have improved the overall quality of ads in Fortean Times and have removed the majority of the most unsuitable ones especially the sex lines. Certainly our esteemed editor, David Sutton, thinks so.

Clearly there are exceptions and occasionally one does slip through the net (most recently the t-shirt ad in 180). I have a working agreement with David as to what is and isn't suitable for FT's broad readership. In any event any ad with the word 'cunt' in it should not appear and the t-shirt ad was a genuine mistake.

As far as the Faces of Death ad is concerned opinion on this site appears split. I agree that for many people what they are offering (not that I have seen it) would not constitute entertainment in any way and I spent a good deal of time considering whether or not it should run. As one correspondent on this site pointed out, the popular Strange Deaths section in Fortean Times would seem to point to an interest in the macabre which presumably is why the advertiser thought the product might be relevant in the first place. All I can say is that, whilst I am not in a position to watch use or play every product that appears in FT's pages, I will continue to monitor ads as closely as I can to ensure they remain as suitable as possible. Please also bear in mind that what people find suitable or appropriate and conversely what people find inappropriate or offensive is totally subjective. One person's lifestyle choice is another person's satanic ritual.

So how do we find the people who do pay to advertise in FT? There are a number of key factors that advertisers are concerned about when listening to the likes of me selling a magazine to them: the circulation, the reader's demographic profile and the editorial environment. Cost is also a consideration but if you can score with any of the above it is rarely the deciding factor. Fortean Times has a (comparatively) small circulation, a very diverse reader profile and incredibly broad editorial range. The circulation rules out the majority of mainstream, mass market advertisers (drink brands, computers, ISPs, telecomms, financial services, etc, etc) who can find far more cost-effective ways to reach 70,000 people. It also makes it very difficult to find advertisers who are looking to target a specific demographic or even advertisers closely related to the subject matter. With car mags you can speak to car companies, photography mags camera companies, Fortean Times - ?. Almost every area that Fortean Times covers has a magazine that is devoted specifically to that subject area or no companies that are likely to advertise. Where should I start with cryptozoology? Vets? Clearly I have only mentioned the negatives but hopefully they illustrate that our job is not an easy one.

The two areas where there are reasonable ad budgets, good looking ads and an overlap with Fortean readers are film / DVDs and computer games which consequently are our biggest ad sectors. Beyond them we start scratching around and end up with the likes of t-shirts and hydroponics who get a large enough response from FT's readers to warrant the expenditure and need to market themselves consistently. The only obvious area we have so far failed to crack is books mainly because their ad budgets (especially for books of a Fortean bent) are non-existent. We have tried charities, 'green' companies, telescope manufacturers, political organisations, real ale brewers, computer retailers to name but a very few and all with no success. Given the team I have I do not believe that it is due either to a lack of effort or a lack of sales ability.

So what are the options? We could take all the ads out and double the cover price. I know some of you would be happy with that but we would have to persuade over 28,000 people too and I do not believe we could do that. Also I do not think this would encourage new readers to try what we all agree is a fantastic mag.

Also taking the ads out would actually upset quite a few people. Advertisers would not advertise if they did not get a response and so whilst some people are complaining others are buying and this will to a large extent also dictate which advertisers we get on a regular basis.

Alternatively Fortean Times changes completely and reverts to a home-produced 'fanzine'. This though is not a decision for me and so far it has been decided that for the greater good of the magazine and its readers our current path is the one we will take and we will do our best to keep the adverts as appropriate and relevant as at all possible given the commercial constraints in place.

The last option, which for me would be the most helpful, is for you to suggest new companies or sectors whose adverts you would like/prefer to see in the magazine or even to persuade your own companies to put their hands in their pockets and take out an advert. Every nice looking new advert means one less horrible one.

I think that's it. If you've got this far, sorry to have taken up so much of your time. I will be more than willing to discuss any of the points I have raised above or any new ones you would like to introduce.

Anthony White
 
For God's (any god's) sake, get rid of all that pot-head crap.
 
LOL! While I'd agree with IJ I'd also say well done!
This is the first time I've seen a magazine/website intelligently respond to customer's complaints. With website's it's usually 'Piss off you geeks' and with magazines '.....' a distannt silence.

While I wouldn't buy or watch such a video there are some who will and if that is the kind of adverts that pay the costs that keep FT going then so be it. No-one is being forced to buy it and there was no images or real detail of what was contained.

I'd say back off the Ad guy. It's a tough job that I never realised was that tough. The ads, like many things in life, are a neccessary evil that keep a good thing going.
 
Personally I don't have a problem with any of the adverts mainly because I have the uncanny ability to ignore a lot of them. I blame Mary Whitehouse for teaching a lot of people to ignore the off button and then whinge and complain about something That could easily have been avoided.
The magazine needs money to keep itself going and I really couldn't care less where it gets it from but you can only raise the cover price so far until it kills itself.
Maybe there's a way to utilize this website to subsidize the magazine but then we'd get everyone moaning on about pop-up ads.
The majority of the adverts inside the mag are in their own special section, keep it like that and then it'd be easy for these people to skip past them.
 
Brave Man!

Thanks for taking the time to explain the pitfalls and policies to us Anthony. I'm sure between the great minds on this board we'll generate a few profitable suggestions as to who to approach for fresh advertising. :cool:
 
I agree with McAvennie, thanks for the considered reply.

I tend to ignore the ads for the stuff I'm not interested in and 'Faces of death' looks tacky but the ad isn't explicit. Ads are a necessary evil, and I suppose someone must buy the stuff or they wouldn't advertise.

Afraid I've no suggestions - I guess you try the usual suspects like 'Forbidden Planet' in its various incarnations (they seem to use SFX quite a bit), and the guys either '10th Planet' or 'Galaxy 4' who had all the Dr Who stuff at UnCon 2004 (yes, I did buy some, sorry).

By the way, not sorry to see the sex lines go - good work there Adman.

The pot-paraphenalia doesn't bother me, it's getting a bit quaint actually.
 
Fair reply.

As for new ad sectors have you tried gadget shops/businesses? Plenty of forteans have a natural interest in the quirky. Also, what about travel shops? Forteana spreads across the world, plenty of opportunities for agents to put a new spin on a trip without resorting to being completely alternative (e.g. Inca trail etc etc)

As for the big businesses 'individuality' is the new buzz word, Sony, Nokia, Apple etc all want to break new markets with their plugging of the new world where you can own a brand name but still maintain your individualness and personality. They are currently looking for underground/alternativve means to do so, so don't give up on them completely. A fortean is very much an individual, and FT is a good alternative access route. "Just think, you never would have snapped that award winning ABC picture without your 3G Sony-Eriksson" etc ...

Just some ideas ;)
 
In fact the only fair way to change it, if you really do want to change it, is to lower the advertising rates and offset that with a small increase in the cover price. That way you might attract smaller, more respectable companies who previously could not afford it.
The only time I'll ever complain about advertising if the magazine gives way to major corporations. How many would have been happy to see their product advertised in an issue dedicated to the Nazi UFO tests during WW2?
Anyone taking a quick glance at the cover of that issue could be forgiven for jumping to conclusions, however wrong they might be.
 
What an excellent response - I think it is very easy for readers to forget that there are people who do their best for the magazine - only for their efforts to be belittled.

I note that a decent response takes more than one line... :rolleyes:

Keep up the good work.
 
I have kept very quiet on issues of what I think should or shouldn't be in the mag since I was figuritively slapped by David Sutton for my comments in the games reviews debate ;) and to be honest I have come to the conclusion that I obviously like FT the way the people who run it choose to run it as it is the only magazine I read.

I hope that doesn't sound too sycophantic.

To be honest I do not see what the problem is with the adverts : I would much rather the current stuff than the really cheap looking garish porn line ads there used to be and I am quite honestly much happier to be considered, and indeed actually more likely am, a potential buyer of hydroponics, ethnobotanicals, horror dvds and tshirts than the obscene, planet-despoiling cars, parasitic financial services and cancerous aspirational luxury goods and the rest of the usual round of sickening and insulting advertising in more mainstream media.


Wow, maybe I am the reader profile alternative cliche pot head loser target audience.

Takes all sorts, so they say.
 
It's not my idea of the reader profile that counts, it's the advertising department's.

When did FT become little more than a lad-mag?
The 'why' and 'where to now?' might also be interesting questions.

And more pertinently, how can a rather wordy specialist magazine offer absolutely no ads of any interest to someone who's read it consistently for years?

Ads are part of a mag's identity, like the articles are. The 'Faces of Death' one made me roll my eyes and think, 'So THAT'S what we've come to.' The crude T-shirt designs offended me too, because they were insulting to me as a woman.

I can buy any number of magazines that don't insult me instead of one that does, and in fact have missed a few issues of FT recently because I couldn't bothered to track it down. That's never happened before in the 10 years I've been reading it.

It happened not because the articles were poor, but because the ads seem so out of touch with my own interests that I began to wonder if it was really aimed at me.
If it's now a lad-mag maybe it's time for me to look around for something else. FHM has good jokes and my son takes that!
 
nope
I may have spelled it incorrectly though ;)
It should probably be enthobotanicals not ethnobotanicals.
Guess I am more addled than I thought.
 
Well done for putting your case well. I really appreciate it.
I'm glad the sex lines have gone but I do wonder about the "Hydrophonics" ads. Aside from any other considerations etc isn't growing Pot etc illegal in this country? There is little if any ambiguity. How do you draw the line as to what is legal?
I also don't find the actual "Faces of Death"ad (which is a full page) itself explicit. Though the alledged content looked tacky I assumed it was hype. "Banned in countries! (such as Afghanistan, Iran etc, you can add a few more to make the numbers up.) I wasn't aware of it before this issue.


Actually Why not get Linda Barker to model some of the T shirts. I hear she is keen to take on more promotional work if the price is right.
 
First of all "pothead" ads, whats your problem, they are much less harmful, than "natural" remedies ads. second if you HAVE to have ads, ( i personnaly hate all advertising )..then why censor them"faces of death", has been on tv in most countries, and is out dated crap anyway.We have enough legistation, so as far as ads go, its all or nothing for me. BY THE WAY are you also resposible for the awful ads on this site???
 
I never look at adverts in any printed material, so it's a wasted debate to me. Though the irritations seem to be (i) the types of products mark the readers out to be weirdos, and (ii) some of it's offensive (iii) there's nothing I want to buy.
On (i) well, the mainstream advertisers have bigger fish to fry rather than waste their money on such a limited circulation, hence the smaller more specialised stuff. Fact of life, sadly. BTW, was there some kind of Golden Age of FT advertising that people look back to with misty eyes? What was advertised back then?
And on (ii) well I wish I had the time to be offended by silly T shirts that I've never seen anyone wear, bearing old sexist jokes that say more about the wearer than womankind. I can't take that kind of thing literally, more ironically (if that's the right word). Life's too short. If the pot head stuff annoys the Daily Mail readership then let's keep it :D
(iii) There are plenty of other ways to shop for good stuff, there's this interweb thing I've heard about which is quite good.

PS Can anyone think of a bigger waste of money than paying for blocky pictures of willies and titties for your mobile? I can't. All I can say is a significant portion of the readership must be disaffected teens failing miserably to shock.
 
Adman: Thanks for stepping up - I can't imagine anothe rmagazine where the contributors, editorial staff and the ad department drop in and explain the policy.

I certainly thing you have dragged the ads back from heading down the Bizarre route.

As I said in the other thread I see them as a necessary evil - my main complaint is that they aren't overly 'imaginative' and seem to aim at a student/idiots market - which most of us (a possible unrepresentative sample of the overall readership) feel slightly insulting.

Google have ads great strides with their contextual ads and I know the FT 'context' can range over a wide area but we all read more than the average person, we probably watch more films, etc. and I would imagine we travel more and to more interesting places (you have the numbers from the survey) - targetting these areas would seem to bring in more money.

You clearly know this better but would it be possible to work closer with the advertisers - I know in the past some DVD company had ads with Fortean themed products in and perhaps someone like Amazon could be interested in something like that. As the "We are all nerds now" thread shows the interest in sci fi, fantasy, etc. is more widespread than ever (esp. with the MAtrix and LotR).

I also wonder if it would be possible to get something like sponsorhsip for some sections - in the FT travel section we could say have a box saying something like: "this section sponsored by...." and get some travel company offering unsual travel or bespoke arrangements.

Then again I'm sure you've looked into this kind of thing and it hasn't worked but I could see those directions working and actually enhancing the magazine ;)

PS - would it be possible to post the numbers from the survey (or is it 'sensitive' information)?

Emps
 
Growing pot = illegal
Selling equipment that could be used in conjunction with growing or smoking said substance is not.
 
Dear Adman,

Please can you get some decent opium ads in - supplies at Fortean Towers have been running shockingly low of late.

Also more adverts from purveyors of good quality armour, samurai swords and biological weapon start-up kits would be much appreciated.

Esteemed Ed.
 
Thanks for taking the time Anthony, it sounds like a tough job, glad I'm not doing it.
 
I Don't Mind Most Of The Ads, At All. Even Ones For T-Shirts

I wasn't overjoyed by the 'Faces of Death' advert and I think T-shirts that use Fred and Rose West as amusing designs are crap.

If we have to have 'Dianetics' ads could we have 'Rosicrucians (AMROC)' as well, please.

More:
Homebrew companies selling kits and parts.

Video/DVD companies that sell, decent classic cult movies (Not crap like 'Nekromantic' though).

Alternative, independent comic publishers, heaven knows there's enough fans on this site alone.

Alternative Travel and Ghost Tour companies.

Sea Monkeys, X-Ray spectacle, Silly putty style ads. Small ads for independent books and pamphlets.

Errm... I'm running out of ideas for the moment.
 
I suggest trying again on those real-ale breweries; Hook Norton and Hobgoblyn spring to mind. Also speak to some of those wonderfully named Orkney breweries, they're sure to want to break into more southerly markets.

I'm sure there are also some 'alternative' drinks manufacturers, producers of Mead and simular beverages, who might be interested in advertising in the FT.

Sell us as being individualistic alternative life-style types and you shouldn't go far wrong.

Thanks for taking the time to speak to us Anthony; It's appreciated.

Niles.
 
I wish I could be more helpful, but I live in America where those er, um Americans live. (Notice how I don't admit to being one myself! Heehee.)

I wonder if you could open it up to some American ads? Ones with websites that can be accessed around the world? Some of that jewelry in FT reminds me of piercing jewelry that I have seen ads for over here.

FT is really the only magazine I read. I am definitely not a "Cosmo Girl."

I would like to express my appreciation also Anthony, for your response and openess to new ideas. :)
 
I suppose I should say a few things.

Firstly, its gratifying to find that we are being listened to. It would be all to easy to say
"Well the Ad money's coming in, and the readership are still buying, so there's no problem"
But you aren't saying that, so here's my input.

I have no problem with any advert until it either patronizes my intelligence (E.g. Internet Pop-Ups) or undermines my particular moral code (I.e. Faces of Death).

Adman says:
"As far as the Faces of Death ad is concerned opinion on this site appears split."

Well if split means 38% of those who voted have a specific problem with that Ad, a similar number don't have a problem, and
60 % have a problem with the majority of the Ads, then yes, its split.
But I would say not.
I think my Poll shows that a large majority were offended by this Ad.

Can we then ask that it, and similar, will be absent from future issues ?

Thanks for the first reponse, please write again,
Joe
 
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