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Violence in Media Causing Violent Behavior: Urban Myth?

MrRING

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I have heard all my life how violent media caused violent behavior.

But, is it all just an urban myth?

What I have heard is that every media has been said to cause problems. That when books were invented, they were considered a detriment to health, and that "Don Quixote" was an outgrowth of that idea - that too many books rots the mind. I'm pretty sure that theatre preformers and plays had a bad rap, and I know that comic books were considered evil in the 1950's due to Fredrick Wertham. Movies were considered the prime corruptor after radio but before television. Then television was considered a vast wasteland, and I believe it was a series of violent cartoons in the late 60's that were considered to be corrupters of youth in tv, as well as violent westerns.

Am I right in that the patten exhibited is that a new media comes out, some portion of it is deemed an evil, immoral corrupter, until a even newer media comes up and is then tied to the "corruption of youth", and so on?

And as to why it seems like an urban legend - I don't think anybody thinks that reading a book, comic book, listening to a radio show, or seeing live theatre is a "corruptor of youth" anymore, or that violence in those media have an effect anymore. TV, yes, I'd say people still worry about it, but it was the last "new media" before the internet, but I bet anti-violence proponents will move away from tv's and into television, particularly because academic papers these days look better if they deal with multimedia.

What brought on this idea today, and why I thought it appropriate for urban legends, is how "violent lyrics" in songs are now considered the detriment to society. Is it the new thing, in that file swapping is such a new phenomenon, that parents think that free internet access to songs is corrupting todays youth? Is this and most of these studies trying to prove "violence in media" just an outgrowth of a urban myth as old as the printed page?

Here is the article, the original link is after it.

Study: Violent Lyrics Linked to Aggressive Thoughts

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Young adults may experience a surge in aggression-related thoughts and feelings after listening to music that contains violent lyrics, new study findings suggest.

Results of the experiments showed that violent songs led to more aggressive interpretations of ambiguous words and increased the relative speed with which people read aggressive versus nonaggressive words.

The study, released Sunday by the Washington, D.C.-based American Psychological Association, included five experiments involving more than 500 college students. It is published in the May issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology.

In the study, violent songs increased feelings of hostility. The increased hostility was not an effect of differences in musical style or a specific performing artist. Instead, the violent lyrics themselves appear to be responsible for the increase in aggressive thoughts and feelings, according to the report.

Even violent songs that were of a humorous nature increased aggressive thoughts, the study showed. The researchers believe that current findings contradict a popular notion that listening to angry, violent music actually serves as a positive catharsis for people.

"Research on potential violent song effects on aggressive behavior becomes even more important now that we have clearly demonstrated that such songs increase aggressive thoughts and feelings," writes a team led by Dr. Craig A. Anderson of Iowa State University in Ames.

The music industry came under criticism from lawmakers in October for failing to use more descriptive parental advisory labels that specify whether the music contains sex, violence or strong language.

The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) has said that current CD labels give parents enough information without violating the right to free expression.

The RIAA is the trade group for the world's five big labels, including AOL Time Warner Inc., EMI Group Plc, Bertelsmann AG, Vivendi Universal's Universal Music and Sony Corp.

In response to pressure from Tipper Gore, the wife of former Vice President Al Gore, the industry agreed in 1985 to put labels on records that contain explicit sex or violence. At the time, artists said the labels were government-sponsored censorship.

During the five experiments, Anderson's team examined the effects of seven violent songs by seven artists and eight nonviolent songs by seven artists. In some cases the students heard both types of songs by the same recording artist.

After listening to the songs, students were given various psychological tests to measure aggressive thoughts and feelings, including asking the participants to classify words that have both aggressive and nonaggressive meanings, like rock and stick.

"One major conclusion from this and other research on violent entertainment media is that content matters," Anderson said in a statement from the APA.

"This message is important for all consumers, but especially for parents of children and adolescents," added Anderson.

Still, Anderson's team points out that any aggressive thoughts or feelings that result from violent lyrics "may last only a fairly short time."

Commenting on the study, the RIAA said "we agree that parents should be educated so they can make their own determinations about what media content is appropriate for their children."

"More than 75 percent of parents are satisfied with our current voluntary labeling program," the group said.

The RIAA noted that it will continue to educate parents on the security, privacy and legal risks posed by illegal activity on music-sharing networks on the Internet.

"Unlike the numerous legitimate online music sites that properly display the Parental Advisory Logo, these unauthorized networks allow easy access to songs without letting parents know what their kids are listening to," the group said.

SOURCE: Journal of Personality and Social Psychology 2003;84:960-971.


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030505/hl_nm/lyrics_thought_dc_1
 
"Even violent songs that were of a humorous nature increased aggressive thoughts, the study showed. The researchers believe that current findings contradict a popular notion that listening to angry, violent music actually serves as a positive catharsis for people. "


Why should the "findings" necessarily contradict the notion that there is no positive catharsis. Surely the point of catharsis (if it exists in reality) is thinking such thoughts or expressing them safely but not acting on them. So there was a limited "effect " according to psychological testing - how many of them went out and caused real violence?


Also one whould need to be careful how to define "violent".
Depictions of "blood and gore" or actions/feelings that have a negative effect.
 
Mr. R.I.N.G. said:
I have heard all my life how violent media caused violent behavior.

But, is it all just an urban myth?

What I have heard is that every media has been said to cause problems. That when books were invented, they were considered a detriment to health, and that "Don Quixote" was an outgrowth of that idea - that too many books rots the mind.

Hi, there, Montag...;)

Television does rot the mind because it's a continuous outpouring of sludge requiring no mental effort on the part of the viewer...that's the reason why even the crappiest of books is better for you than TV.

As for violence...humans are violent animals. The media gives those inclined toward engaging in violence ideas about how it ought to be done, but they would probably have done something similar anyway.
 
Watch Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" - very interesting on the culture of fear. He uses video games as an examle of violent media and points out that many of them are developed in Japan and are enthusiastically received there, but there are a couple of hundred murders in Japan per year, and about 14,000 in the US.

I personally think it depends on the person watching as to how much impact it has on them.

Also, you know when the media goes 'standards of education are falling'? Apparently, it was the Ancient Greeks who first worried about that. Standards have been falling for thousands of years, so we must be now minus!
 
[Standards have been falling for thousands of years, so we must be now minus! [/B][/QUOTE]

Yup. People get more stupid as they get older now...scary, isn't it?
That is one thing for which the media is to blame.
 
Curious how all this kind of research seems to get taken seriously, yet any research that pins the blame on anything "respectable" gets dismissed out of hand. (In the early 90s some researchers claimed -IIRC- that after analysing sports attendences and crime figures since the 70s, they had found that the more people were attending football matches, the more violent society seemed to be in general. And when the attendences at matches dropped, the level of violence seemed to drop in an according-to-the-researchers linked proportion. There was an item in New Scientist essentially laughing at both the report "and the non-sports-fan nerds who wrote it".)
 
An idle thought

I've been wondering for a long time whether it's not so much the programmes themselves, but (unconcious) evocation of archetypes portrayed in them.

To explain: The Third Reich used deliberate re-creations of ritual evocations of Mars, the Bringer of War, in it's rallies, which definitely stirred feelings of aggression within anyone who witnessed them. Conversely, Janis Joplin on stage used to (apparently unconciously - discuss) perform a ritual evocation of Venus: despite not being that obviously attractive she could whip the audience into a sexual frenzy (and I know someone who did see her live, and he confirmed she was utterly spellbinding).

Now to extend this premise: what if elements of these rituals were unconciously incorporated into TV shows and films? Pre-supposing that all humans do subconciously respond to archetypes (and there's an excellent article on Jung in FT171), then surely this could go some way to explain why some, visual, media can apparently trigger extreme responses, whereas others with a similar theme do not (and books almost never).

As I said, just an idle thought.
 
Re: An idle thought

stu neville said:
To explain: The Third Reich used deliberate re-creations of ritual evocations of Mars, the Bringer of War, in it's rallies, which definitely stirred feelings of aggression within anyone who witnessed them. Conversely, Janis Joplin on stage used to (apparently unconciously - discuss) perform a ritual evocation of Venus:
Sorry, Stu, could you clarify this a bit? What sort of evocations, exactly?
................. ...
Personally, I think there's more of a trade off on violent imagery, lyrics and plots being much more a reflection of, rather than an incitement to, violence in society at large.

Research has shown (don't ask me for back up on this one, but I have read some), that what constant exposure to enactements and portrayals of violence does seem to do is a). brutalise us to them, and b). make us more timid and fearful in our real lives and interactions with society at large.

Think, for example, Crimewatch UK and all those real life police and ambulance chasing documentary series like Cops.

All those little old ladies terrified to open their doors, or walk down the street. Empty streets and the fortified homes, complete with 'safe rooms'! :(
 
Well, literally that AM - recreations of old magical rituals specifically to evoke those archetypes/principles/Gods, whatever you want to call them: Mars in the case of the Nazis (and on a vast scale at that):
In the book, Satan and the Swastika, Francis King says: " Hitler's public appearances, particularly those associated with the Nazi Party's Nuremburg rallies, were excellent examples of this sort of magical ceremony. The fanfares, military marches, and Wagnerian music, all emphasised the idea of German military glory. The mass swastika banners in black, white and red, filled the consciousness of the particaipants in the rally with national socialist ideology. The ballet-like precision of the movement of the uniformed party members, all acting in unison, evoked from the unconscious, the principles of war and violence which the ancients symbolised as Mars. And the prime ritual of the rallies - Hitler clasping to other banners, the 'blood banner' carried in the Munich Putsch of 1923 - was a quasi-magical ceremony designed to link up with minds of living Nazis with the archetypal images symbolised bt the dead national socialist heroes of the past. The religio-magical aspects of the rallies were emphasised by the fact that their high points were reached after dusk and took place in a 'Cathedral of Light' - an open space surrounded by pillars of light coming from electric searchlights pointed upwards to the sky. If a modern ritual magician of the utmost expertise had designed a ritual intended to 'invoke Mars' he could not have come up with anything more effective than the ceremonies used at Nuremburg.
from here.

In the case of Janis Joplin, as I recall I read of this in Orbis' "Mysteries of the Mind" - can't find my copy :(. But, as I said I know someone who saw her live, and who testified to her effect on the audience.
 
Re: Re: Violence in Media: Urban Myth?

Inverurie Jones said:
Hi, there, Montag...;)

Television does rot the mind because it's a continuous outpouring of sludge requiring no mental effort on the part of the viewer...that's the reason why even the crappiest of books is better for you than TV.

As for violence...humans are violent animals. The media gives those inclined toward engaging in violence ideas about how it ought to be done, but they would probably have done something similar anyway.

Your quote is interesting, because when you say that "television does rot the mind", isn't that just an extension of the urban legend (presented in Don Quixote) that reading novels will rot the mind?

Now, I have heard theorists say that reading is an active media, whereas tv is a passive media, but even with that I just don't see tv being only a brain-draining detriment to society. And could even "active" and "passive" media be an unfouned myth that advocates of an older media use against newer media? I'm sure that even as movies are embrced as an important art form now and tv is deridded, before tv's invention it was theatre that was cerebral and important and that movies were mindless mass entertainment.

That's what I'm gettting at - is science seeking fervently to prove an urban myth when it tries to go at televised, or visual, or now verbal violence?

I'm a "pro-violence" advocate... well, not really, but I don't think that exposure to Road Runner cartoons causes serial killers or any such goofy argument. (in the 80's in America, they started to cut out all the violent conclusions in Road Runner cartoons to protect kids - Willie E. Coyote would fall off a moutnain, but they wouldn't show his impact - there's a good lesson for kids, hurtle off a mountain and you will be unhurt :))

I think societies problems, the ones where "society is going down the tubes", is an unproveable myth in and of itself. To try and prove that society is being corrupted by our media would be like trying to prove that there was a bee hive hairdo that did contain spiders.

And when I've read violence studies, it read like "We let Little Bobby watch 3 hours of violent cartoons. When we offered him a toy punching clown, Bobby punched the clown,. Therefore, television violence leads to real violence in kids". I just don't believe it.
 
Re: An idle thought

stu neville said:
The Third Reich used deliberate re-creations of ritual evocations of Mars, the Bringer of War, in it's rallies, which definitely stirred feelings of aggression within anyone who witnessed them. Conversely, Janis Joplin on stage used to (apparently unconciously - discuss) perform a ritual evocation of Venus: despite not being that obviously attractive she could whip the audience into a sexual frenzy (and I know someone who did see her live, and he confirmed she was utterly spellbinding).
That's a very interesting point Stu, and one that I had never considered - thanks :)

The evidence linking violent behaviour to violence in the media seems to be very subjective at best. I think it's predominantly just a "Daily Mail mentality" where something has to be blamed for some awful things that happen, and "the media" is an easy target I suppose. What is more disturbing, and Inverurie Jones mentioned it earlier, is the insipid brainlessness of a lot of television (BBC1 and Channel 4 are guilty of a lot of this) and the way in which you're presented with so many stereotypes and small-minded approaches to subjects and aren't encouraged to actually think about any of them or question anything. That's what really p*sses me off about the majority of television output now. I don't think it necessarily "rots the mind" but it could have an effect on people's opinions if they take everything they see on it as read - confirming prejudices etc.

If anyone's interested in further reading on this subject, there is a very good book Screen Violence (ed. Karl French) which contains views on both sides of the debate written by a variety of authors/academics/personalities (including a tract from none other than Mary Whitehouse!). It mainly covers film rather than TV but is a very interesting read nonetheless. :)
 
It's an old debate this one (as Mr. R.I.N.G said.) The second generation of Romantics (Shelly, Byron ect.) where credited with causing the colaps of western civalisation, comic books got it in the 50's, rock and roll and so on and so forth.

As far as I'm awair there is no conclusive proof that violent media produce a violent reaction in the individual viewing it. This notion, I've alway theought, has more to do with individuals not willing to face up to their own culpability and sociaties not being willing to facve up to the problems that their social/ economic systems generate.

In other words it's 'passing the buck' as our American Cousins would say.
 
Re: Re: Re: Violence in Media: Urban Myth?

Mr. R.I.N.G. said:
Your quote is interesting, because when you say that "television does rot the mind", isn't that just an extension of the urban legend (presented in Don Quixote) that reading novels will rot the mind?

Now, I have heard theorists say that reading is an active media, whereas tv is a passive media, but even with that I just don't see tv being only a brain-draining detriment to society. And could even "active" and "passive" media be an unfouned myth that advocates of an older media use against newer media? .

Nah; telly's a disease. In what way does TV require you to use your brain? None at all. It just encourages you to sit there, getting fat and stupid. Even many documentaries.
Novels can get into your brain, but they (mostly) do it in a good way, which is how Quixote himself sees it...
 
Do movies and games turn non-violent people into violent ones? NO.
Should we protect children from too much screen violence? YES.

Having said that, I was shocked by the hypocrisy of censorship in the US. On TV, it’s not okay to see someone’s bum, it’s not okay to hear the word “God-damn”, but at any time of the day you can see a movie like the original Terminator or any other gore fest with the violence uncut. Violence, it seems, is not as important censorship-wise as swearing and nudity.
Also, in the UK the cinema certificate system has movies classified by age, such that the most violent are rated 18 and over only. In the US, there is an “NC-17” certificate, but this is rarely used for box office reasons. This means 18 rated movies in the UK can be watched in the US by children of any age if accompanied by an adult (“R rated”). In an ideal world, this means that responsible parents can take their children to see these movies and discuss it with them afterwards. In the real world it means irresponsible parents who want to go out and have young kids and can’t afford or be bothered to hire child care take their three year old to see Resident Evil.

I have problems understanding this. I’m not pro-censorship, but let’s have some consistency.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Violence in Media: Urban Myth?

Inverurie Jones said:
Nah; telly's a disease. In what way does TV require you to use your brain? None at all. It just encourages you to sit there, getting fat and stupid. Even many documentaries.
Novels can get into your brain, but they (mostly) do it in a good way, which is how Quixote himself sees it...

This is a good example of "common knowledge", where it's just understood that tv is a bad influence. What you're stating sounds more like an opinion about content rather than an emperical observation about the entire medium of television.

But would you say that movies also "encourage you sit there, getting fat and stupid"? What about music? Pop and rap? Classical? If music and movies don't make you fat & stupid, then what is different about tv that lets it adversly affect the view?

And if you feel that movies and music turn your brain to mush, then why not novels?

And why would a documentary be a bad influence on television, but an article written the same way in National Geographic (for example) be considered superior, something that is less likely to turn the brain to mush?

I'm not saying that tv is only a golden, wonderful and intellectually fullfilling form, but it's no worse than any other medium. It's just higher profile.

And the arguments still sound like urban legend to me, like "I heard from a friend of my cousin that tv makes your brain turn to mush." And if it wasn't true when novels were considered evil, plays were corrupting, radio was corrupting, rock was destroying youth, comics influencing kids towards stupidity - then why is it true of television? Or violent lyrics?
 
Blame Culture

Trying to pin the blame for violence to any one source of influence is misguided and oppressive. To try and conclude, as one litigator in the US attempted, that a Judas Priest lyric had 'cause' to teenagers to take shotguns to their heads is rediculous. A study of Satanism in teenagers here concluded that satanism like other 'antisocial' behaviours were manifestations of deeper seated problems and symptoms not causes, much like the violence 'caused' by the media.

I find it disheartening that the 'finger pointers' will blame anyone and anything before holding the mirror to themselves. We are all, to acertain extent, creations of our environments, some influences have more sway than others. The responsibility of those influencing is paramount but NOT exclusive, we have to take some personal responsibility for our actions.

Should the News be banned, or Boxing or Rugby or Jackass or It's a Knock Out?;)
 
Re: Blame Culture

Edward said:
Should the News be banned, or Boxing or Rugby or Jackass or It's a Knock Out?;)

No, Yes, No, Yes, Yes. :laughing:

Certainly the media helps perpetuate anti-social behaviour by making people think that it is 'normal' (look at the 'Lad Culture' that exploded following Men Behaving Badly) but those people must be at least slightly anti-socialto start with.
 
Alarm at any one piece of f'wit culture seems misplaced but I worry just
a little at the way ugly and juvenile material can form a self-referential
environment, outside of which it is very uncool to stray. :confused:
 
This is turning into an 'Alas Smith and Jones' sketch, innit? Heh.
 
As an aspiring screenwriter, it always pisses me off that people blame films and TV for violence in society ... I usually say "well what caused violence in society before movies/TV had been invented?"

For instance what movie/TV show had the Roman's been watching before they came to the conclusion that it'd be a jolly old wheeze to throw Christians to the lions ... or to crucify someone for what ever reason they saw fit?

Didn't crowds used to flock to public executions way back ... ?

I don't think violence in the media influences violence in society, IMO violence in society is reflected in the media ...
 
For the record, I shall summarise my stance: I don't think TV makes people violent; I think it makes them stupid.
 
Inverurie Jones said:
For the record, I shall summarise my stance: I don't think TV makes people violent; I think it makes them stupid.

But, why doesn't film make people stupid? Or books?

Now that we are safely past the age when novels were invented, there are tons of material to say it is worth your time as well as personal exposure - many people have been exposed in some way to literature. But when the novel first became a pastime, it was considered a time killer and could induce madness, or whatever various beliefs were ascribed to early novel readers.

I think that in 200 years, people will be laughing at us about how we thought that tv was roting the minds of nation, while at the same time whatever new media has come along will be consideed the new corrupter of youth. An endless cycle, an urban legend that unfortunately people just believe.
 
Oh, film can make people stupid too, but the amount of effort that goes into film production is (usually) much higher than with TV programmes, so the level of half-arsed crappitude isn't quite as great.
What bugs me about TV is that it requires no input from the viewer, I'd say it even seems to force one to use the mind less than usual...books require that the reader uses his mind to turn the printed word into something else, with TV that's already been done. TV is junk food for the mind, designed for those intellectual tapeworms who want everything pre-digested, though it wasn't always so. Once quizzes were about more than huge prizes or some dithering ginger woman trying to insult people in a 'humerous' fashion. Once documentaries taught us things, rather than seeming like the watered down version of the blurb from a book on the subject...
Television and literature are fundamentally different, in method if not always in quality (yes, you, Clancy).
 
(I feel like I'm being beligerent, I.J., so I hope you take my arguing in a good, positive light rather than just stupid harrasment :))

To begin with, I have to say, the best of TV can stand with the best of every other art form. I think every media has masterpieces, even the much maligned tv, and eventual the internet will have masterpieces of it's own as well (Fortean Times gets my vote ;))

You last e-mail talks about:

1) Production Value: There is certainly truth sometimes to beigger budgets leading to a better movie, but have you ever seen Heaven's Gate? Also, there are plenty of low-budget films that have smaller budgets than many tv shows. It seems like that creativity is key, and there have certainly been quality tv shows that creators had a strong pull in putting on tv, like Twin Peaks, Northern Exposure, Buffy & Angel, Monty Python, Faulty Towers, The Ernie Kovaks Show, ER .... for every Coronation Street there is an equal percentage of Danielle Steel novels and Jean Claude Van Damm movies.

2) How do movies in particular require more imput than television? Production value alone?

3) You state "books require that the reader uses his mind to turn the printed word into something else, with TV that's already been done. TV is junk food for the mind, for those intellectual tapeworms who want everything pre-digested."

This seems like just a value statement, in that you value one over the other. But is Nova, or tv films like An Early Frost or The Day After, or the Discovery Channel, somehow lacking in content so much that they become purile junk by just existing on television? If they were in theatres, would that make them more palletable, more intellectual?

Which has more worth, Carl Sagan's Cosmos tv show or reading the Poisonwood Bible? Is it Cosmos, because it is a science show based in fact? Is it the Poisonwood Bible, because it is well written triumph of literature? Or is it simply that literature is superior in all categories to any other media experience?

Is this not food for thought?
 
The making of a film is a major undertaking and it must stand or fall on its own merits (an increasing number are tripping up on the way out the studio door. Explosion Syndrome, y'know.) whereas many TV programmes are just pointless filler material; why not return to the limited broadcasting of TV's early days? Why stretch four hours of material to cover a whole day?

If the things you mentioned were in 'theatres' (I assume that by that you mean 'cinemas'; I can't see the Discovery Channel as a stage play) they would still be what they are; limited by time, money and the attention span of the audience.
I would say that literature is certainlysuperior to other media forms, being less constrained by time, pop culture (can you really see them devoting a television channel to the in-depth subject matter covered by, for example, a chemistry textbook?) or the demands of advertising industry lampreys.

There is much crap among what is written down, but a far smaller proportion than among what is shown.
 
Inverurie Jones said:
If the things you mentioned were in 'theatres' (I assume that by that you mean 'cinemas'; I can't see the Discovery Channel as a stage play) they would still be what they are; limited by time, money and the attention span of the audience.
I would say that literature is certainlysuperior to other media forms, being less constrained by time, pop culture (can you really see them devoting a television channel to the in-depth subject matter covered by, for example, a chemistry textbook?) or the demands of advertising industry lampreys.

There is much crap among what is written down, but a far smaller proportion than among what is shown.

Okay, here are two more things:

1) Can television ever produce a work of quality in arts

and

2) can televison include factual content pretty well?

I think they can. Was not tv's Cosmos, or the overal output on a program like Nova, at least as good as an article in the Smithsonian? And again, there are plenty of good artistic heights to choose from for tv - Six Feet Under written by Academy Award winner Alan Ball for one..

I don't think that all tv is a gem, but I would say pound for pound that the same percentage as many good, quality, and informative works on tv as there are good books to bad books.
 
Mr. R.I.N.G. said:
I don't think that all tv is a gem, but I would say pound for pound that the same percentage as many good, quality, and informative works on tv as there are good books to bad books.
Ha! Blew yer' argument out of the water right there, I'm afraid. :p

Books do require more effort than TV, in decoding and interpreting from the text alone. TV leads the viewer down a pre-determed and linear path. There's research to show that TV can actually put people into a trancelike and even slightly suggestible state (hence the amount spent on advertising), certainly an almost captive audience.

There may be many, many bad books out there, and TV may be capable of overcoming its limitations, but you'll not persuade me there's any kind of real correlation in quality between the two media. There may be two good books to every 100 bad ones, but find one good TV prog in a thousand on a hundred different channels and your doing well, these days.
 
Mr. R.I.N.G. said:
Okay, here are two more things:

1) Can television ever produce a work of quality in arts

and

2) can televison include factual content pretty well?

1) No, it cannot, or if it can, it does not.

2) Not as well as other media.
 
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