Visiting Crime Scenes

KHammers

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Nov 13, 2016
Messages
134
That's a very terrible thing your family went through. I hope some of the pain has faded and you have more smiles today than back then. And shame on that charity! I expect better! But seeing how every other day I get emails from organizations asking for donations you'd think they were run by bill collector's!
 

Bigphoot2

Not sprouts! I hate sprouts.
Joined
Jul 30, 2005
Messages
10,811
Thanks everyone for the kind words, it was - at the time a traumatic situation, made all the worse by a horrible falling out of certain family members towards my dad for reasons beyond his control.
As if it wasn't stressful enough for him having to visit his uncle - who was in his eighties -in prison to try and help him understand what was happening to him and why he was being charged with the murder of his beloved wife, then he had to oversee the funerals of two family members -they never had kids, he then had his own sister turn on him, and completely ignore him for the next 15 yrs.
In their wills, they had decided to leave the entire contents of their bank account approx 130,000 pounds - to a childrens charity. A real nice gesture you would think?? well as soon as the charity found out about this they nastily hounded my dad for the money even though he had no control over it, it was all held in probate due to the circumstances, when they eventually got their hands on the money there was no thanks at all from them to my dad for all his help.
It did have an awful affect on him for a long time.

What a terrible time for you all to go through. I can only echo what others have said and hope that things are better for you all.
 

ramonmercado

CyberPunk
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Messages
54,458
Location
Eblana
Thanks everyone for the kind words, it was - at the time a traumatic situation, made all the worse by a horrible falling out of certain family members towards my dad for reasons beyond his control.
As if it wasn't stressful enough for him having to visit his uncle - who was in his eighties -in prison to try and help him understand what was happening to him and why he was being charged with the murder of his beloved wife, then he had to oversee the funerals of two family members -they never had kids, he then had his own sister turn on him, and completely ignore him for the next 15 yrs.
In their wills, they had decided to leave the entire contents of their bank account approx 130,000 pounds - to a childrens charity. A real nice gesture you would think?? well as soon as the charity found out about this they nastily hounded my dad for the money even though he had no control over it, it was all held in probate due to the circumstances, when they eventually got their hands on the money there was no thanks at all from them to my dad for all his help.
It did have an awful affect on him for a long time.

A terrible thing to have to go through.
 

ChrisBoardman

Justified & Ancient
Joined
May 17, 2011
Messages
1,266
Watching Crimes That Shook Britain, about Suzy Lamplugh. There are plenty of easily-recognisable locations to be looked up on Google Maps: the building where she worked, the street where her car was found, the house where she presumably met the murderer.

You could even search for where her body may be buried, in the grounds of an abandoned army barracks at Norton in Worcestershire. The exact place may yet be located.

It was in the press a few weeks ago that two days after Suzy went missing a man witnessed a man with a suitcase on a shopping trolley dump it from a bridge into the Grand Union Canal. When he saw footage of John Cannan on TV he swore it was him. But police refused to act as that part of the canal was dredged in 2014 when looking for Alice Gross.
 

AnonyJ

Captainess Sensible
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Messages
1,405
Location
Having-a-nice-cup-of-tea-and-a-sit-down-shire
On a trip to India in 2018 I visited what was Birla House in Delhi, now Gandhi Smirti and followed his last footsteps (they are literally marked out in stone) across the grass to the spot where Mahatma Gandhi was shot dead by Hindu nationalist Nathuram Godse in 1948. An open memorial marks the place that he fell.

I felt it was the time and place when the idea of a secular India died, too.

IMG_3067 (Copy).JPG
 

stu neville

Commissioner.
Staff member
Joined
Mar 9, 2002
Messages
13,312
A Secular India must be a contradiction in terms
Not really - it's one where the competing religions don't affect the legislature rather than having a disproportionate influence. The factionism in such a massive democracy is a real handicap to a properly functioning democratic process. British rule enforced a kind of homogeny, but was nuanced enough to recognise the regional differences, independence led to partition and jockeying within what remains. Ghandi wanted a united nation that celebrated differences but put them aside for the greater good- so secular in legislative terms.

(Edit - typos)
 
Last edited:

AnonyJ

Captainess Sensible
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Messages
1,405
Location
Having-a-nice-cup-of-tea-and-a-sit-down-shire
Not really - it's one where the competing religions don't affect the legislature rather than having a disproportionate influence. The factionism in such a massive democracy is a real handicap to a properly functioning democracy. British rule enforced a kind of hemogeny, but was nuanced enough to recognise the regional differences, independence led to partition and jockeying within what remains. Ghandi wanted a united nation that celebrated differences but put them aside fir the greater good- so secular in legislative terms.

This is exactly what I meant by a 'secular' India, thank you for expressing it. India was already partitioned by 1948 but the remaining part had hopes, until Gandhi's assassination by a hardline Hindutva extremist. It set the scene for a communalism which is still ongoing.
 

Lord Lucan

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Feb 17, 2017
Messages
4,141
When in New York, I went and stood on the spot where John Lennon was shot, outside of the Dakota Building where he & Yoko lived.
I've always been a Beatles fan and it just seemed like the right thing to do. Afterwards we walked across the road into Central Park and into the area now known as Strawberry Fields which is quite serene & peaceful.

John Lennon was shot just where the curb bends in this image:
lennon1.jpg


The Imagine memorial - Strawberry Fields, Central Park, NYC.
lennon2.jpg
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
10,911
When in New York, I went and stood on the spot where John Lennon was shot, outside of the Dakota Building where he & Yoko lived.
I've always been a Beatles fan and it just seemed like the right thing to do. Afterwards we walked across the road into Central Park and into the area now known as Strawberry Fields which is quite serene & peaceful.

John Lennon was shot just where the curb bends in this image:
View attachment 32006

That’s a non-native English sparrow...

This means something...

Wooooooo...

maximus otter
 
Last edited:

Spookdaddy

Cuckoo
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
7,168
Location
Midwich
The sign is clearly misspelt: should read, Authorized Passerines Only Beyond This Point.
 

escargot

Disciple of Marduk
Joined
Aug 24, 2001
Messages
38,617
Location
HM The Tower of London
John Lennon was shot just where the curb bends in this image:

I looked hard at that bit of curb, hadn't seen it before, noticed how it's been damaged and partly repaired. Couldn't help thinking of souvenir hunters. :(

Lennon's murder still makes me angry. He fought hard for the right to live in America and was then shot by some twat who could buy a gun because you can do that in America.
It'll be 40 years next week.
 

escargot

Disciple of Marduk
Joined
Aug 24, 2001
Messages
38,617
Location
HM The Tower of London
When in New York, I went and stood on the spot where John Lennon was shot, outside of the Dakota Building where he & Yoko lived.
I've always been a Beatles fan and it just seemed like the right thing to do. Afterwards we walked across the road into Central Park and into the area now known as Strawberry Fields which is quite serene & peaceful.

John Lennon was shot just where the curb bends in this image:
View attachment 32006

The Imagine memorial - Strawberry Fields, Central Park, NYC.
View attachment 32007
Thought I'd share this view of the Dakota Building from Facebook.

The caption reads:
'Skaters in Central Park with the Dakota Building looming in the background, 1890.
Ninety years later, John Lennon was shot on the steps of that building.'

Skaters in Central Park with the Dakota Building looming in the background, 1890..jpg
 

Spookdaddy

Cuckoo
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
7,168
Location
Midwich
Aside from using the Ripper sites to familiarise myself with the East End - when I lived in Bethnal Green back in the 90's - and despite being interested in crime, I've otherwise never gone out of my way to search for murder sites. I'm not entirely sure what I'd get out of doing so – nothing much, I think (and I don't really understand the peevishness some people clearly feel at finding that someone has done away with them).

I suppose that my take on this is that crime is the continuation of social history by other means (apologies to Clausewitz), and details of such events are part of the social and historical geography of a place - different coloured pins on a multi-layered map. I don’t feel any particular need to visit them for their own sake, but knowing where they are provides a kind of waymarker, and one that sometimes joins up with others.

As a bit of an example: On many visits to a Waterstones bookshop on Edinburgh’s George Street (no longer there – it’s a bank now) it always used to strike me as a very satisfying coincidence, and probably one to which most shoppers were oblivious, that an alleged inspiration for one of Scotland’s most famous author’s most famous creations lived in the neighbouring building (Number 81). And murdered there too.* I love the idea of some reader picking up a copy of the relevant novel without having the least clue about what went on next door.

Eugene Chantrelle.

*Unless they’ve changed the street numbering, which does sometimes happen - in which case I would be talking nonsense. I suspect not in the case of George Street, but I’ve never found an old map of the New Town with house numbers to confirm it.
 
Last edited:

Lord Lucan

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Feb 17, 2017
Messages
4,141
Thought I'd share this view of the Dakota Building from Facebook.

The caption reads:
'Skaters in Central Park with the Dakota Building looming in the background, 1890.
Ninety years later, John Lennon was shot on the steps of that building.'

View attachment 32098

@escargot Take a look at the image in this post from the 'Premonitions of Death' thread, it's even spookier:
https://forums.forteana.org/index.php?threads/premonitions-of-death.18210/page-3#post-1938202
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
10,911
Does anybody have an interest or obsession with visiting the scenes of famous crimes?

Or maybe just finding them on google earth.

I've noticed the lane where the range rover murders happened has been taken off the map, but can bee seen on google earth.

Last week I was trying to find out which house Colin Pitchfork lived in in Haybarn Close, no luck, but I did find out where the murders happened. Colin Pitchfork was the first murderer ever caught by DNA, he even got a friend to take a DNA test for him.

Has anybody else done the same with other crimes?

Just to note: Pitchfork is due to be released after serving 33 years:

“The world's first killer convicted to be convicted by DNA evidence is set to be released from prison 33 years after he was jailed for raping and murdering two schoolgirls.

Colin Pitchfork was jailed for life after strangling 15-year-olds Lynda Mann and Dawn Ashworth in Leicestershire in 1983 and 1986.

A Parole Board hearing took place in March to consider whether he was suitable for release and the decision was published on Monday.

A document detailing the Parole Board decision said: "After considering the circumstances of his offending, the progress made while in custody and the evidence presented at the hearing, the panel was satisfied that Mr Pitchfork was suitable for release."

Pitchfork became the first man convicted of murder on the basis of DNA evidence and was jailed for life at Leicester Crown Court in 1988. He was sentenced to serve a minimum of 30 years.”

Details of his crimes & the investigation.

maximus otter
 
Last edited:

Spookdaddy

Cuckoo
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
7,168
Location
Midwich
Earlier this year when working in London I would take the odd post work pint in a pub not far from Earl's Court station. First visit, after having settled in, I experienced that familiarity with the unfamiliar feeling that sometimes pops up in unexpected places, and was struck by the odd feeling that there was something I should know about the place - but just couldn't quite place what it was.

I resisted googling for a few days, wondering if my brain would sort out the issue on its own, but had to give in. The boozer, now called The Pembroke, was once the Coleherne Arms - which, back in the day, was a very well known gay pub and leather bar. Also, a stamping ground for not one, but three serial killers: Dennis Nilsen, Michael Lupo and Colin Ireland (although I think it was only the latter who actually hunted for victims in the Coleherne).

I have no idea how I knew that there was something notable about the place (and serial killers don't generally get blue plaques - so it wouldn't have been that). The most obvious reason would be that I'd clocked the road sign (the pub's address is Old Brompton Road, but it's on the corner with Coleherne Road), however I'm not conscious of doing so, and am not entirely sure I would have got the significance of the name anyway. But I must have picked up on something. Confounding how the brain/memory works.
 

catseye

Old lady trouser-smell with yesterday's knickers
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
5,442
Location
York
Earlier this year when working in London I would take the odd post work pint in a pub not far from Earl's Court station. First visit, after having settled in, I experienced that familiarity with the unfamiliar feeling that sometimes pops up in unexpected places, and was struck by the odd feeling that there was something I should know about the place - but just couldn't quite place what it was.

I resisted googling for a few days, wondering if my brain would sort out the issue on its own, but had to give in. The boozer, now called The Pembroke, was once the Coleherne Arms - which, back in the day, was a very well known gay pub and leather bar. Also, a stamping ground for not one, but three serial killers: Dennis Nilsen, Michael Lupo and Colin Ireland (although I think it was only the latter who actually hunted for victims in the Coleherne).

I have no idea how I knew that there was something notable about the place (and serial killers don't generally get blue plaques - so it wouldn't have been that). The most obvious reason would be that I'd clocked the road sign (the pub's address is Old Brompton Road, but it's on the corner with Coleherne Road), however I'm not conscious of doing so, and am not entirely sure I would have got the significance of the name anyway. But I must have picked up on something. Confounding how the brain/memory works.
Did you perhaps see the name 'Coleherne' on the roadsign and your brain linked it to the only other thing it knew with that name, The Coleherne Arms, so knew it 'should' know the name but not why? It's weird how brains keep doing that - I found myself singing the Fun Lovin' Criminals song 'Smoke 'em' over and over again for no reason I could think of, and then I found that I'd been watching a Midsomer Murders episode called 'Talking to the Dead'. I hadn't clocked the title, but it had obviously come up on the TV at some point, and my brain had locked into the title (for those who don't know, the words, 'talking to the dead' are a lyric in that song). Weird.
 

Spookdaddy

Cuckoo
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
7,168
Location
Midwich
Did you perhaps see the name 'Coleherne' on the roadsign and your brain linked it to the only other thing it knew with that name, The Coleherne Arms, so knew it 'should' know the name but not why?...

That's the most likely explanation - although, I'm not actually consciously aware that I'd seen the street name or knew about the Coleherne Arms, or even knew the name, in the first place. That said, I suspect that although I was not consciously aware of either, I probably was - but the information was buried under the skiploads of junk that constitutes my memory.
 
Top