Voluntary Human Extinction

[Peripart]

Oh, for heaven's sake, Dingo 667. If you've run out of happy pills, I'm sure the doctor will prescribe you some more.

That was probably uncalled for,and I don't really mean to offend, but don't tar all humans with the same shitty brush.

If I've got that wrong, and lots of you now slate me, I promise not to post anything more on the subject.

 

[drbastard]

Oh, for heaven's sake, Dingo 667. If you've run out of happy pills, I'm sure the doctor will prescribe you some more.

That was probably uncalled for,and I don't really mean to offend, but don't tar all humans with the same shitty brush.

If I've got that wrong, and lots of you now slate me, I promise not to post anything more on the subject.

You're quite entitled to your opinion peripart, but you rather understated the issue IMO. I would go further. I would say that it was the biggest load of puerile dross that I have ever had the misfortune to read.

 

[Peripart]

I stand corrected.

 

[lupinwick]

ANIMAL POWER!!!!!!!!

Yep we are animals, or we were last time I looked. Not the best, brightest or most intelligent but hey can't all be perfect.

As a species we are - rapacious, greedy, intolerant, stupid and so on. The list of faults is endless.

In the end though, we're here, we can't force our views on every one but we can at least try to sort out the mess.

 

[Dingo667]

Oh, for heaven's sake, Dingo 667. If you've run out of happy pills, I'm sure the doctor will prescribe you some more.

That was probably uncalled for,and I don't really mean to offend, but don't tar all humans with the same shitty brush.

If I've got that wrong, and lots of you now slate me, I promise not to post anything more on the subject.

You're quite entitled to your opinion peripart, but you rather understated the issue IMO. I would go further. I would say that it was the biggest load of puerile dross that I have ever had the misfortune to read.

Thanks for letting me know YOUR opinion. YOU have the right to call MY opinion "purile dross", but where exactly do you take this arrogant selfimportance and righteousness from? Please at least have the curtesy to explain why I am so wrong [in YOUR opinion?].
Is it
a) You love humans and you think they are smashing?
b) You are religious?
c) All your friends have the same opinion as you and you don't want to stand out?
d) You are not really interested in overpopulation and its effect on earth?
e) You didn't really think about what I said, just read it and picked a few sentences that "wound you up" so you had to insult my opinion?
f) You are a sheep like most people and have never come up with an opinion that has arisen through thoughts of your own due to experience?
g) You just didn't "like" what I wrote, for whatever reason?

I absolutely LOVE to have a decent chat about this but I have also noticed that certain people sincerely believe that what they say is the only correct way of thinking, because it fits in with our culture and the going mindset.
May I just point out, that this is not enough to make my point invalid!
And to everyone who thinks that I should kill myself, what is it with people not readingwhat I wrote? There is no need. I love my life but I have also CHOSEN [you know, a choice you make, you decide to do something...] NOT to have any children. Therefore I am actually doing something that fits in with my opinion.
I am healthy, educated [BSc Hons Neuroscience] and for 15 years [and counting] very happily married, still I have such a strong opinion about this that I am NOT procreating [anyone who thinks I am young and will change my mind might be interested that I am 38yrs old]. What do you do? Multiply like rabbits and tell everyone that it is your "right"?????
Please ask me questions or come up with something you might think will change my mind but stop being such wannabe ponces, throwing about big words in order to make yourself seem clever but not actually giving anything constructive back.
Oh and by the way, it is people like you that strengthen my view...so erm thanks for that!

 

[Quake42]

Well, Dingo667, can I refer back to a point someone made a few posts back.

Given your stated views, how do you feel about others dying?

Did you support the actions of the bombers on 7 July?

What about the tsunami?

Are you hoping that the bird 'flu outbreak matches the doomiest of prediction?

If not, why not?

 

[Dingo667]

To answer it all:
Acts of terrorism are despicable. Before anyone thinks I'm contradicting myself, think about this. These are vile acts of humans against humans not in order to get our numbers down but to inflict pain and suffering deliberatly. It is not my idea to inflict torture on a handful of poeple. It is useless and has nothing to do with my view apart from strengthening it again. Also it is manmade and therefore [like most other things we do] completely against nature.
Tsunamis, earthquakes and deadly viruses on the other hand are natural disasters and of such scale that I can but shrug my shoulders and think to myself that nature has its own ways of keeping its inhabitants down. The suffering that results from such disasters is not caused by stupid human ideas but by force of nature. It is also not deliberate but a result of many natural causes coming to a point. There is nothing "evil" about SARS, AIDS, birtd flu, cholera etc etc... These are factors that help to keep a balance. Unfortunately humans are tough and will try to find ways of stopping everything that is natural. Which completely mucks up any balance between species of all kind. Fortunately Nature is also tough and [without a consciosness] will "come up" with other ways to kick us in the balls [metaphorically speaking...].
This is the way it is, stripped of electricity, shelter and tools we would at least be able to start respecting the fact that the world doesn't revolve around us but that we are only a tiny [annoying, distructive] affliction that has happened to this beautiful planet.
I am not kidding myself. If I'd catch bird flu, it would be just as natural as if someone else would. However if some vile human [like terrorists] would cause any harm to me or my family I'd want them to be brought to justice.

 

[Quake42]

Tsunamis, earthquakes and deadly viruses on the other hand are natural disasters and of such scale that I can but shrug my shoulders and think to myself that nature has its own ways of keeping its inhabitants down. The suffering that results from such disasters is not caused by stupid human ideas but by force of nature. It is also not deliberate but a result of many natural causes coming to a point. There is nothing "evil" about SARS, AIDS, birtd flu, cholera etc etc... These are factors that help to keep a balance. Unfortunately humans are tough and will try to find ways of stopping everything that is natural.

I'm afraid I really can't get my head round this sort of misanthropic logic which sees human beings - our families, lovers, friends and colleagues - as nasty little bugs which need to be wiped out by a virus or an earthquake.

For the record, I'm glad that antibiotics probably saved my life when I was a baby and suffering from a severe fever. I'm glad that kidney medication means my mother is fit and healthy and able to enjoy her middle age. I'm glad that my gran can take medicine for her heart which means we have the benefit of her experience and wisdom even though she is in her 80s.

I'm truly sorry that you can't see the joy and beauty that exists in human culture.

 

[river_styx]

I think the idea being that humans are capable of planning and forethought which gives their actions a benign or malicious intention.

Natural disasters on the other hand are random and even though methods for prediction are getting better the fact remains that the location of these events is one of the widest variables. Therefore it's not an intentional act of persecution against a single individual or ethnicity and cannot be considered as malicious or benign. It's just shit that happens, unless you subscribe to any religious beliefs, then it becomes a bit more hazy.

 

[Quake42]

I think the idea being that humans are capable of planning and forethought which gives their actions a benign or malicious intention.

Natural disasters on the other hand are random and even though methods for prediction are getting better the fact remains that the location of these events is one of the widest variables. Therefore it's not an intentional act of persecution against a single individual or ethnicity and cannot be considered as malicious or benign. It's just shit that happens, unless you subscribe to any religious beliefs, then it becomes a bit more hazy.

Oh I don't disagree with that. What I object to is the idea that natural disasters are simply a handy way to keep human numbers down and that anything which might mitigate their effects (seismic early warning systems, antibiotics etc) and "unfortunate".

Also the idea that everything "natural" is good and "unnatural" bad.

Hippy nihilism of a very dangerous nature.

 

[GreenJeanz1]

Also the idea that everything "natural" is good and "unnatural" bad.

Hippy nihilism of a very dangerous nature.

I loathe that nihilistic mindset..we are just as much a part of nature as anything else, we deserve to be here just as much as animals(we ARE animals). Our great intelligence isn't a CURSE, it's a gift, and it would be far more productive to use it to encourage people to be careful with the environment rather than sitting around and whining about how we're all such a horrible pox on the earth.

I too have made the life choice of not having children, for many reasons. Overpopulation is not a big reason, but I do feel that people ought to look into adoption much more than they do, there are too many children who need homes. So yeah, we're not all crazy.

 

[Mister_Awesome]

Actually I have seen a quickly growing trend of people of above-average intelligence deciding not to reproduce. Unfortunately, I think this just means less intelligent genes will be passed on, and the human race certainly can't have too many of those.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic toward the concept of human extinction, though I don't really think there's any way to actually accomplish this, within reason. (Maybe this will lead to crazy supervillains in the real world...) The depressing thing to me is that we have the capacity to make the right choices and act responsibly, as a race, but so many people act on their animal instincts and just take whatever short-term advantage that they can lay their hands on, with no thought toward the repurcussions of their actions.
Unfortunately the stupid people tend to be in charge. So nobody smart wants the job, and if they do the dumb status quo keeps them down. I always say that the dumb people have unionized. Well, the world doesn't have to be that way. I think the people here are smart, generally speaking. Why aren't the smart people unionized? Why don't smart people run the world? I guess I'm optimistic for thinking there's hope for the human race and a pessimist for thinking it never will happen. I dunno. I can't save the world by myself, but I can do my part and act responsibly at least.

 

[drbastard]

Dingo 667, firstly I would like at the outset to apologise for my outburst. I can only say that I have a personal situation right now that made me particularly sensitive to some of your comments. That’s not an excuse, but it’s at least a reason. I’m admitting that it was out of order. However;

g) You just didn't "like" what I wrote, for whatever reason?

g). Others (Heckler Androman Quake42 et al) have put my view point more eloquently than I am capable so there’s no point for endless repetition. Likewise I have studied the VHEMT site for some time and am familiar with all the stock answers that they trot out so there’s nothing I need to ask.

I feel nauseated by this group, for the simple reason that I feel they relish the death (and suffering) of others. I know they state that this is not the case, but I don’t believe it. I think it is a pathological condition of mind. While I also share the concerns about overpopulation and the state of the planet I’m deeply suspicious of this group as I would be of any bunch of extremists.

Your post came across as really vitriolic, and gave me the impression that it was driven more by warped misanthropy than by real practical concerns. You may say that people are misreading you but when you use phrases such as ‘Humans are pretty sh*t.’ and ‘small children grow up to be big shitty humans’ there’s not much ambiguity there.

With the exception of my last post I have taken care on this board to respect the feelings of others & certainly wouldn’t state that humans ought to be wiped from the face of the planet, when there could potentially be readers that are suffering the recent or ongoing demise of a loved one (for example). Maybe that’s just me though.

…certain people sincerely believe that what they say is the only correct way of thinking, because it fits in with our culture and the going mindset.

Nope, you are entitled to believe as you do. You are entitled to your opinion, as I am to mine. I was interested enough to investigate the VHEMT movement and read what it had to say, and then I made my own decision based upon that. Because I happen to disagree with it does not make me a mindless sheep.

What do you do? Multiply like rabbits and tell everyone that it is your "right"?????

I find that amusing. For your information I don’t have children, but don’t rule it out either.

I have also CHOSEN [you know, a choice you make, you decide to do something...] NOT to have any children.

Choosing not to have children is not going to make any difference. It’s an empty gesture.

Please ask me questions or come up with something you might think will change my mind but stop being such wannabe ponces, throwing about big words in order to make yourself seem clever but not actually giving anything constructive back.

I don’t really understand how that relates to me but I hope that you are including me as a wannabe ponce. Hilarious.

I am healthy, educated [BSc Hons Neuroscience] and for 15 years [and counting] very happily married

I’m healthy, I’ve been married for 5 years & educated (PhD). Not sure what that’s got to do with the issue though.

Oh and by the way, it is people like you that strengthen my view...so erm thanks for that!

Same here.

 

[lupinwick]

Acceptance of different view points is important. Its when the VHE movement comes across as bad as (or worse than) the fundamentalist religous nutters that folks get upset.

Personally I don't agree with it, but it is your personal choice - as long as its not forced on me.

 

[GSX1400]

Why does extinction matter?

I don't see why humans should go out of their way to make sure that other species survive. The whole of life on Earth as we know it know started from a single cell, which was able to replicate. So even if we wiped out everything we can see and killed 99% of all the things we cannot see the Earth would still be in a far better starting position than it was when life first took a hold at the beginning.

After a few billion years things would be back to pretty much the way they are now.

Anyway, we show huge prejudices when it comes to protecting certain species from extinction. We want to save the elephant but don't care about E.Coli. From an objective point of view they are both species with an equal right to exist.

 

[elspeth14]

This thread reminds me of something I read years ago

There is some confort in the knowledge that however Homo Sapiens contrives to destroy himself a few creatures will survive in that ultimate wilderness he will leave behind, going on about their ancient business in mindless confidence that their own much older and more tolerant species will prevail.

 

[Human_84]

An argument that can be made is this:

"Isn't living on earth all about survival of the fittest?"

 

[GNC]

Survival of the luckiest, more like.

 

[Mister_Awesome]

An argument that can be made is this:

"Isn't living on earth all about survival of the fittest?"

Perhaps, but the scary thing is that humans may become a mass extinction event, as has happened many times in the past, rendering Earth unlivable for most life forms. And the worst part about that is that it doesn't have to be that way, but there are too many lazy irresponsible people to worry about the repurcussions of their actions.
The scenes that always scare me in movies are like the captain of the ship slowly sliding into the mouth of the shark wthout being able to stop himself in Jaws, or the needle slowly coming at the eye in A Fire in the Sky. To me, the news is a bit like one of those scenes. But like a deer trapped in headlights, I can only stare in horror.

 

[mindalai]

My views on this subject swing from one extreme to the other. On one hand I quite often think that the world would be a better, more balanced place if humans had never evolved, but then I sometimes ask myself why it would be better and I can't come up with much. Quite often there's this idea that if there were no humans the world would be like the garden of eden, with lions cuddling lambs and that sort of thing, but the truth is animals have always had pretty miserable violent lives anyway, even without any influence from humans. Wild dogs eat antelope alive, bears break legs and slowly starve to death, whales swim up rivers and get lost and so on. Why is it so much worse if they suffer at man's hands rather than the hands of nature and each other as they have been doing for aeons before Man was even thought of?

I've also made a decision not to have children, based largely on my view that there are without doubt too many people in this world to be sustainable (and also partly based on the fact that I find children unhygienic and annoying!). I would like to point out the huge, in fact absolutely gigantic, gap between wanting to contribute in a small way towards lowering the birth rate of our species, and actually wishing existing people dead. Although I do wish that there were fewer humans, I wouldn't actually wish death on anyone (well, maybe one or two people - but that's for personal reasons). In fact I make my living out of making sure people don't die wherever possible.

 

[Yithian]

I've read that initial website and concluded that i am 75% sure it's a joke. Perhaps by the founder on its members.

If you truly believe our species to be parasitic, and that we do more harm than good, then the sensible response is to campaign for better humanitarian/environmental behaviour not extinction!

One is a hollow gesture with zero chance of sucess. The other is a strong gesture only likely to make a tiny difference at best but is, thus, better that the alternative.

S