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What caused WW1?

mejane

Gone But Not Forgotten
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This is most definitely not about any current conflicts, just a historical question about the first world war.

Why did it start? Why did it pull in so many countries?

I've always been under the impression that it was basically a power squabble between the royal families of Europe which got out of hand... a minor duke gets killed in Serbia... the Russian royal family gets a bit upset... their German relatives get really upset and decide to invade France (via Belgium. which the British royal family for reasons not known to me had vowed to protect at any cost)... all hell breaks loose :confused:

Didn't these people ever consider a good game a chess, a nice cigar and maybe a brandy or three? :confused:

Reasons? Theories? Good web links?

Jane.
 
mejane said:
This is most definitely not about any current conflicts, just a historical question about the first world war.

Why did it start? Why did it pull in so many countries?

The war started because a bloke called Archie Duke shot an Ostrich cos he was hungry.

(with apologies to Ben Elton)
 
That's about it, really. No goodies or baddies, just Empires going for each other's throats.
 
Inverurie Jones said:
That's about it, really. No goodies or baddies, just Empires going for each other's throats.

well, thank you, AJP Taylor

(with apologies to Rob Grant and Doug Naylor)
 
George: The war started because of the vile Hun and his villainous empire-building.

Edmund: George, the British Empire at present covers a quarter of the globe, while the German Empire consists of a small sausage factory in Tanganyika. I hardly think that we can be entirely absolved of blame on the imperialistic front.

George: Oh, no, sir, absolutely not. (aside, to Baldick) Mad as a bicycle!

Baldrick: I heard that it started when a bloke called Archie Duke shot an ostrich 'cause he was hungry.

Edmund: I think you mean it started when the Archduke of Austro-Hungary got shot.

Baldrick: Nah, there was definitely an ostrich involved, sir.

Edmund: Well, possibly. But the real reason for the whole thing was that it was too much effort *not* to have a war.

George: By God this is interesting; I always loved history -- The Battle of Hastings, Henry VIII and his six knives, all that.

Edmund: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent war in Europe, two superblocs developed: us, the French and the Russians on one side, and the Germans and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea was to have two vast opposing armies, each acting as the other's deterrent. That way there could never be a war.

Baldrick: But this is a sort of a war, isn't it, sir?

Edmund: Yes, that's right. You see, there was a tiny flaw in the plan.

George: What was that, sir?

Edmund: It was bollocks.
 
Are you just running through the whole of UK Gold's schedule or what?
 
Would you rather talk about the Schlieffen Plan?

Anyways, was it true that the Archduke took a wrong turn into the path of the assassin, or is that a myth? Did a wrong turn cause the deaths of millions and change the face of Europe for ever?

Also, a superb little tale about the legend of the Archduke's cursed car resides here. Sounds a tad dodgy to me as it must have been written off several times... :)
 
Dark Detective said:
Would you rather talk about the Schlieffen Plan?

If you want. I've done presentations on it. With maps and a pointy stick and everything.
I'd heard of the Cursed Car thing...but I didn't mention it in case everybody went 'Pffshaw!' like that.
 
Gavril princip and the Black Hand Gang. Or am I getting my 2nd year history mixed up with my 3rd year history !?!:confused:
 
Answering my own question... it's true

June 28, 1914
At around 10:00 a.m., the archducal party left Philipovic army camp, where Franz Ferdinand had performed a brief review of the troops. The motorcade, consisting of six automobiles was headed for City Hall for a reception hosted by Sarajevo's mayor. The chosen route was the wide avenue called Appel Quay, which followed the north bank of the River Miljacka.
In the first automobile rode the Mayor, Fehim Effendi Curcic, and the city's Commissioner of Police, Dr. Gerde. In the second automobile, its top folded down and flying the Hapsburg pennant, rode Franz Ferdinand, Sophie and General Potoirek. The driver and the car's owner, Count Harrach, rode in front. The third automobile in the procession carried the head Franz Ferdinand's military chancellery; Sophie's lady in waiting; Potoirek's chief adjutant, Lieutenant Colonel Merizzi; the car's owner and his driver. The fourth and fifth automobiles carried other members of Franz Ferdinand's staff and assorted Bosnian officials. The sixth automobile was empty -- a spare should one of the others fail.
The morning was sunny and warm. Many of the houses and buildings lining the route were decorated with flags and flowers. Crowds lined the Appel Quay to cheer the imperial couple. Amid the festive crowd mingled seven young assassins. They took up their assigned positions, all but one along the river side of the Appel Quay. First in line was Mehmedbasic, to the west of the Cumurja Bridge. Near him was Cabrinovic. The others were strung out as far back as the Kaiser Bridge.
The Bomb
The motorcade approached and the crowds began to cheer. As Franz Ferdinand's car passed Mehmedbasic, he did nothing. The next man in line, Cabrinovic, had more resolve. He took the bomb from his coat pocket, struck the bomb's percussion cap against a lamp post, took aim and threw the bomb directly at Franz Ferdinand.
In the short time it took the bomb to sail through the air, many small events took place. The car's owner, Count Harrach, hearing the bomb being struck against the lamp post, thought they had suffered a flat tire. "Bravo. Now we'll have to stop." The driver, who must have seen the black object flying, did just the opposite -- he stepped on the accelerator. As a result, the bomb would not land where intended. Franz Ferdinand, also catching a glimpse of the hurtling package, raised his arm to deflect it away from Sophie. She sat to his right, and so was between Franz Ferdinand and Cabrinovic.
The bomb glanced off Franz Ferdinand's arm, bounced off the folded car top and into the street behind them. The explosion injured about a dozen spectators. The third car was hit with fragments and stalled. Merizzi received a bad cut to the back of the head. Others in the party received minor cuts. The first and second cars continued on for a few moments then stopped while everyone assessed who was injured and who was not.
After the Bomb
Cabrinovic swallowed his cyanide and jumped into the river. The trouble was, the poison was old -- it only made him vomit -- and the river was only a few inches deep. He was quickly seized by the crowd and arrested. The motorcade continued on to City Hall, passing the other assassins. Either because they thought Cabrinovic had succeeded or from lack of resolve, they failed to act.
At City Hall, a furious Franz Ferdinand confronted the Mayor. "Mr. Mayor, one comes here for a visit and is received by bombs! It is outrageous!" After a pause to calm himself, he regained his composure and let the Mayor speak. The Mayor, either completely unaware of what had happened, or personally ill equiped for crises, launched into his prepared speech. "Your Royal and Imperial Highness!...Our hearts are full of happiness..."
By the end of the Mayor's speech, Franz Ferdinand had regained his composure and thanked his host for his cordial welcome. Activities at City Hall were observed as planned.
Changed Plans
Discussions were held as to whether to change the rest of Franz Ferdinand's schedule. The Archduke did not wish to cancel his visit to the museum and lunch at the Governor's residence, but wished to alter his plans to include a visit to Merizzi in the hospital.
The same motorcade set out along the Appel Quay, but neither the Mayor's driver, nor Franz Ferdinand's driver had been informed of the change in schedule. This would have been Merizzi's job.
The young assassins had counted on succeeding on the first attempt. With no assurance that Franz Ferdinand would follow his original itinerary, the remaining assassins took up various other positions along the Appel Quay. Gavrilo Princip crossed the Appel Quay and strolled down Franz Joseph Street. He stepped into Moritz Schiller's food store to get a sandwich. As he emerged, he met a friend who inquired about a mutual friend.
The Wrong Turn
The Mayor's car, followed by Franz Ferdinand's car turned off the Appel Quay and onto Franz Joseph Street, as originally planned, to travel to the museum. General Potoirek leaned forward. "What is this? This is the wrong way! We're supposed to take the Appel Quay!" The driver put on the brakes and began to back up. Franz Ferdinand's car stopped directly in front of Schiller's store -- five feet away from Princip.
The Shots
Princip was quick to recognize what had happened. He pulled the pistol from his pocket, took a step towards the car and fired twice. General Potoirek happened to look directly at Princip as he fired. He thought the gun's report unusually soft. Both Franz Ferdinand and Sophie were still sitting upright. Potoirek thought the shots had missed, but given the assult, ordered the driver to drive directly to the Governor's residence.
Arrest
Princip then turned the gun on himself, but was mobbed by the crowd. Police had to rescue Princip from the crowd before they could arrest him. Princip had swallowed his poison, but it was from the same batch as Cabrinovic's. He was violently ill, but did not die.
Mortal Wounds
As the car sped across the Lateiner Bridge, a stream of blood shot from Franz Ferdinand's mouth. He had been shot in the neck. Sophie, seeing this, exclaimed: "For Heaven's sake! What happened to you?" She sank from her seat. Potoirek and Harrach thought whe had fainted and were trying to help her up. Franz Ferdinand, knowing his wife better, suspected the truth. Sophie had been shot in the abdomen and was bleeding internally.
"Sopherl! Sopherl! " he pleaded. "Sterbe nicht! Bleibe am Leben für unsere Kinder! " (Sophie dear! Sophie dear! Don't die! Stay alive for our children!)
The cars rushed to the Governor's residence. Sophie may have died before they arrived. Franz Ferdinand died shortly afterward.
The July Crisis
The murders of Franz Ferdinand and Sophie brought Austro-Serbian tensions to a head. Serbia had been fomenting trouble for Austria for many years. For many in Vienna, the double murders provided the 'last straw' for a get-tough showdown. The trail back to the Black Hand would not be unraveled for years to come. Vienna felt she could not wait for conclusive proof and acted based on the mass of circumstantial evidence.
As Vienna took a hard line against Serbia, the other powers in Europe took sides. The wheels of war gained speed. The stakes far outgrew the squabble between Austria and Serbia. The Crisis of July turned into world war, just over thirty days after Franz Ferdinand and his wife Sophie were shot.
http://www.ku.edu/~kansite/ww_one/comment/sarajevo.html
 
Great detail, DD, I only knew bits of that before and didn't know the name of the assassin. Rather worrying, as my great-grandmothers maiden name was Princip :eek:
 
Then again, I've always felt that there was something to be said for the suggestion that the Balkan Crisis was simply a convenience seized upon by the European Powers to enable them to wage a war that would settle once and for all how Africa would be divvied up. Arguably, fighting the war in Europe was preferred to fighting it in Africa as a) the supply lines would be conveniently shorter, b) it would be easier to field larger numbers of men, and c) on European soil there was less risk of any nasty surprises of the sort encountered by the British in South Africa in the '90s.
 
More Fortean flavour to this theme - apprently the Archduke had a premonition that he would be assassinated. He is said to have told one of his children 'The bullet that will kill me is already on it's way'. Of course, this may just be part of the folkore, but I thought I'd include it anyway.

As to the reasons why the war started - they are many and varied. Even modern historians still can't really agree on what was the absolute root cause.
 
Thanks everyone, especially DD for the facinating details and to Zygon for the Africa connection... I'll have to think about that. I'm still none the wiser as to why the death of one person was worth killing so many people for :confused:

As to the Kaiser taking a wrong turn, if I recall correctly invading France instead of Russia was a matter of historical importance - the French had already despatched their royal family so must be the enemy in the Kaiser's strange little mind so this was the only war plan available. Who knows really?

Jane.
 
AJP taylor said that the war started cos tof the train time table.. basicly it was easyer and more eficient to go west than east. and once eveyone was ponting that way nothing could stop them.... mind u the Kiser was a loonie war monger, who got millions killed and for punishment ended his days "Imprisond" in a private country house, with only ocasional trips out in the car.....
 
It was started by the secret plots, deals and influence of Basil Zaharoff.

Date & place of birth unknown. Nationality unknown. Rumoured to have been raised in a turkish brothel. Chief arms broker for both the allies and the Germans. Knight of the Garter.

Also arranged the end of the first world war after a secret meeting with Krupp, in time to prevent the Krupp factories falling into the hands of the bolsheviks.

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It is useless to deny, because it is impossible to conceal, that a great part of Europe--the whole of Italy and France and a great portion of Germany, to say nothing of other countries--is covered with a network of … secret societies . . . They do not want constitutional government . . . They want to change the tenure of land, to drive out the present owners of the soil and to put an end to ecclesiastical establishments. - Benjamin Disraeli, House of Commons, 1856
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Re: any proof

Easy! First principle.

"Qui bono?"

Everybody else lost out on the First World War.
 
Nah - you'll need more than that to make a convincing arguement.
 
Not a bad suspect.

From " the Columbia encyclopedia"
***********************
Zaharoff, Basil

(Basileios Zacharias) (z´hrf´´)_(KEY)_, 1850–1936, international financier and munitions manufacturer, b. Anatolia, Turkey, probably of Greek-Russian parents, educated in England. His name is best known in connection with the Vickers-Armstrong munitions firm, of which he was director and chairman. For his services to the Allies during World War I, Zaharoff was knighted by George V and decorated by the French government. He was, however, popularly known as the “mystery man of Europe” and was accused of fomenting warfare and of secret political intrigue through his association with European statesmen, notably Lloyd George, and through his reputed holdings in Krupp, Skoda, and other munitions firms.
***********************
And it all blew up in the Balkans, where among other things Zaharoff had warmed things up by selling:

1) A submarine to the Greeks because he was a "Greek patriot"
and
2)Two submarines to the Turks because the Greeks were getting one.
 
Ah, but you've simply quoted a source which says things without any foundation or reference itself - so it still sounds like a rather dodgy tale. Such big claims that one person can start and end a war have to be bolstered up by some pretty serious proof, IMHO.
 
Wasn't the war caused by the push for empire?

Rival traiding groups and loose aliances formed around the finantial intrests of those involved that led the world in to war.

Some bloke geting shot in a god forgiven backwater? Not lightly - it was weeks after that that war got declaired.

No, it was the love of money - well money and land - that 'murderd half of Europe's seed one by one.'
 
The Virgin Queen said:
Wasn't the war caused by the push for empire?

Partially.

The Kaiser had been jealous of his grannies empire for quite a while. The Germans backed the Boers and then set about challenging the dominance of the Royal Navy.

By 1914 the world had been divided up by the Great Powers and so the only place where rivalry could properly come to a head was back home in Europe.
 
Cavynaut said:
Partially.

The Kaiser had been jealous of his grannies empire for quite a while. The Germans backed the Boers and then set about challenging the dominance of the Royal Navy.

By 1914 the world had been divided up by the Great Powers and so the only place where rivalry could properly come to a head was back home in Europe.

By the great powers you meen the rival alainces? Once one partner within the aliance was atacked then it brought the whole house of cards crashing down.

Damn: I used to know this back to front when I studied history. :(
 
sidecar_jon said:
AJP taylor said that the war started cos tof the train time table.. basicly it was easyer and more eficient to go west than east. and once eveyone was ponting that way nothing could stop them....

Because Russia is such a huge country, mobilisation, once started, was very difficult to stop. The Russians knew that once they had their troops on the trains and rolling westwards, Germany would have to mobilise its own armies.

The Germans knew that France would come to the aid of Russia, 'cos of treaty obligations, so, in order to avoid the dreaded 'war on two fronts', Jerry had to knock out Frenchie in double quick time (the 'Schlieffen Plan). In order to do so, they had to intrude on the neutrality of Belgium, which helped pull us in, although we had a bit of an understanding with Gauloise smokers anyhow.

So yeah. I agree with Jon. Blame the trains and poor communication in Russia.
 
In fact,the Archduke Franz Ferdinand was hardly some minor nobleman as is popularly supposed,but was heir to the throne of Austria-Hungary.Once it was established that the Bosnian Serb nationalist society Black Hand was secretly financed by the intelligence branch of the Serbian General Staff,the Austrians were intent on war,even though the Serbs had pretty much conceded to the Austrian ultimatum.
 
The Virgin Queen said:
By the great powers you meen the rival alainces? Once one partner within the aliance was atacked then it brought the whole house of cards crashing down.

Yeah, basically us, France, Germany, A-H, Russia and Italy. Although A-H and Italy didn't have much of an empire outside of Europe.
 
Cavynaut said:
By 1914 the world had been divided up by the Great Powers and so the only place where rivalry could properly come to a head was back home in Europe.

Not quite true: as I pointed out previously, there remained a lot of territory in Africa whose ownership was still under dispute by the European powers. Take a look at a political map of Africa pre-and post-WWI: the changes in ownership are even more dramatic than the border-changes in Europe.
 
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