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What Do Animals Think?

Human_84 said:
How do certain species of animals know to group up with the same exact species. For example, 2 clownfish. How in gods name does one clownfish know that he is a clownfish? certainly it can't see itself, so why does it team up with the other clownfish? Or 2 silver minnows, same deal. 2 finches, etc. A finch will always hang out with other finches instead of a parrot, etc....
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The old-fashioned answer would be 'instinct', something programmed into the animals from birth. (By natural selection, in the modern way of thinking - any creature that did not recognise its own species would soon drop out of the gene pool.)

That may apply to some species, but birds (apart from cuckoos) are raised by their parents, and so they recognise their species as 'something that looks like mum and dad'.

So some say nature, some say nurture... (let's call the whole thing off! :D )
 
Seeimg as how clownfish have grown up with other clownfish they doubtless know who their friends are. Plus sight is only one of an animal's senses.
 
A male duck will only mate with a female that looks like his mother, if you put a duck egg in the nest of different species the male duck will not mate with females of his own species.
 
We've looked at the godwits' journeys elsewhere, but this article makes me wonder what information they are processing - in other words, what are they thinking? Perhaps they have some form of biological barometer, but I'm pretty sure thay don't have access to satellite weather maps!

Savvy bar-tailed godwit equipped for climate challenge
By Jonathan Amos, Science correspondent, BBC News, San Francisco

The bird world's long-distance champion is probably savvy enough to cope with climate change, researchers believe.
The bar-tailed godwit makes the biggest no-stop migration, flying 11,000km from Alaska to New Zealand every autumn.

It relies on the right type of winds to make this epic journey - winds that computer models indicate could become less favourable in the future.
But scientists say the godwit's ability to judge weather conditions means it should rise to the challenge.
"They are very adept and savvy about when to leave Alaska, in being able to pick times when the atmospheric conditions are favourable for the journey to New Zealand - when there are good tailwinds," explained David Douglas, a wildlife biologist with the United States Geological Survey in Anchorage.
"We don't feel that we see enough change that we should be concerned that they won't have the opportunities to complete the migration as magnificently as they do now.

"We can raise other questions about the quality of their feeding grounds and things that they need to fuel on to make the migration - are they going to be intact and available? Those are entirely different kinds of questions.
"But as far as atmospheric circulation is concerned, at least in terms of the winds, we don't see a train wreck coming."
Mr Douglas was speaking in San Francisco at the American Geophysical Union (AGU) Fall Meeting, the world's largest annual gathering of Earth scientists.

He has been investigating the future prospects for the bar-tailed godwit (Limosa lapponica baueri), famed for its extraordinary annual odyssey.
The bird leaves New Zealand in March to fly some 10,000km to feeding grounds in China and the Koreas. And then in May, the godwit undertakes a 6,000km trip to western Alaska to breed and nest, before returning directly to New Zealand across the Pacific in August/September.

It is this final leg that amazes biologists.
One celebrated godwit, known as E7, was recorded by satellite tag in 2007 to have covered 11,500km in eight days.

But Mr Douglas has been wondering how the godwit might fare in a changed climate that also alters wind patterns in the Pacific.
Working with colleagues at the University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign, the team has modelled atmospheric circulation conditions towards the end of the century.

At the moment, the bird makes use of tailwinds on the backsides of low-pressure systems passing across the northern Pacific. The research found these systems in future will likely more north, and that, on average, what the scientists call the net tailwind index will show some degradation.
In other words, there will probably be fewer opportunities when conditions are optimum.

But tagging studies have demonstrated also that the godwit seems to have a knack of picking the optimum moment whenever it does arise.
"Our empirical studies have clearly shown that these birds don't depart on random," said Mr Douglas.
"They're very good at cuing in on when the conditions are just right. And so when we look at these modelled runs and the variability in the available windows, we see there are still ample opportunities for them to pick good windows of time to make this migration, despite the overall mean being reduced."

The energy required to fly non-stop for thousands of kilometres is huge. This leads to the godwit taking on an enormous fat store before setting out on its marathons.
And if there is concern about the bird's current or future status, then it relates to this fuelling phase and the fact that some of its feeding grounds are being diminished.
In China and South Korea, for example, recent years have seen increasing reclamation of the tidal mud flats where the bird forages.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25274483
 
To judge the most favorable winds available they would only need a sense of direction (which they clearly have) and the capacity to recognize atmospheric pressure changes - which even human systems are plenty sensitive enough to do. Trust the woman whose eyes and inner ears go out on her when barometric pressure changes too rapidly!

If you've ever had one of those decorative barometers with the colored water that rises and falls inside the swan neck or flower or whatever, you've seen the principle. Our fluid vessels respond similarly, and complex organisms are networks of fluid vessels.
 
PeniG said:
To judge the most favorable winds available they would only need a sense of direction (which they clearly have) and the capacity to recognize atmospheric pressure changes...
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Granted, but I suppose what I was really asking was how do they discriminate between a favourable wind that'll only blow for a day or two before swinging to another direction, and one that'll last a week or more, to assist an ocean crossing?

Hence my reference to satellite weather maps! For birds and humans, our senses are good at detecting local conditions, but a more global view is needed for a succesful ocean crossing. It would be interesting to learn how these amazing migration patterns evolved.

For the present, I'm considering that the bird's name, Godwit, is a clue - they're receiving heavenly guidance! ;)
 
rynner2 said:
Meet Chaser: The incredible border collie who has learned the names for 1022 toys
By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 7:52 AM on 23rd December 2010

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z18vlXHp7C
Click to expand...
Educating Chaser continues:

Boning up on grammar: Researchers teach border collie to understand sentences using more than 1,000 words
Roger Dobson Sunday 22 December 2013

Chaser the border collie has swapped sheep and shepherds for syntax and semantics. The black and white sheepdog has not only learnt and remembered more than 1,000 proper nouns but she has also grasped some of the finer points of English grammar, according to researchers in the United States who have studied her.

University academics who have tested her knowledge believe the results show the dog learned, like children, to respond in the right way to different types of words. "Our findings showed that Chaser was successful in demonstrating syntax and semantic understanding on 75 per cent of the trials," say the researchers. They say the dog was able to demonstrate understanding of nouns and verbs which represents a giant leap in her "understanding of language and opens the door for learning further language skills."

The study, involving more than seven years of teaching and research on the border collie, was published in the journal Learning and Motivation. The dog, born in 2004, lived in the home of the researchers, primarily as a member of the family, but also as a target for research.

In the first three years, she learned and remembered 1,022 proper nouns. The objects included more than 800 cloth animals, 116 balls, 26 Frisbees, and another 100 plastic toys. There were no duplicates, and each had unique features so it could be identified. Each was also given a distinctive name, like elephant or Santa Claus.

The dog built up and maintained knowledge of the nouns over a 32-month period. Each month, she was tested on the entire vocabulary, and each time she was able to identify correctly more than 95 per cent of the objects.

The researchers say Chaser's ability to learn and remember so many words, involving discrimination, memory, and other skills, revealed clear evidence of the potential for learning to understand human language.

Not content with their canine's memory skills, the researchers set about teaching the dog grammar. The object of this research was to investigate Chaser's ability to understand the syntax and semantics of sentences consisting of three elements of grammar – a prepositional object, a verb, and a direct object – such as "to ball take Frisbee" and the inverse "to Frisbee take ball" or "to A take B" and the inverse, "to B take A".

Not only did it require the dog to recognise the 100 toys chosen for the experiment, but she also had to take the right ones to the correct destination. Findings showed that Chaser was successful in demonstrating syntax and semantic understanding on 18 of the 24 trials, or 75 per cent of the time. She could also respond to novel objects.

"Thus, after learning the name of the objects, she was able, as are children, to understand the meaning of the sentences even though the objects had never been used in the syntax sentence," say the researchers from Wofford College in North Carolina.
"The combined findings of the three studies support the conclusion that Chaser did, indeed, process and retain memories of prepositional and direct objects.
"The findings closely match the data obtained in dolphin studies involving sentences consisting of three elements of grammar.

"We propose that Chaser's understanding of the three elements of grammar in sentences evolved out of her intensive training for learning the meaning of specific words, and different types of words developed greater sensitivity for verbal symbols and referential cues. In some way, whether by cognitive processes, associative processes, by the inherent properties of different types of words themselves, or by the combination of all three mechanisms, Chaser learned, as do children, to respond appropriately to different classes of words."

They said that the experiments revealed that the dog's understanding of words was not simply confined to memorising strings of words by rote. "Rather, in some way, her brain is partially constructed like that of humans," the researchers said.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 20181.html

Next, Chaser will translate the complete works of Shakespeare into Chinese! ;)
 
21 February 2014

Dogs' brain scans reveal vocal responses
By Rebecca Morelle, Science reporter, BBC World Service

Devoted dog owners often claim that their pets understand them. A new study suggests they could be right.
By placing dogs in an MRI scanner, researchers from Hungary found that the canine brain reacts to voices in the same way that the human brain does.

Emotionally charged sounds, such as crying or laughter, also prompted similar responses, perhaps explaining why dogs are attuned to human emotions.
The work is published in the journal Current Biology.

Lead author Attila Andics, from the Hungarian Academy of Science's Eotvos Lorand University in Budapest, said: "We think dogs and humans have a very similar mechanism to process emotional information."

Eleven pet dogs took part in the study; training them took some time.
"We used positive reinforcement strategies - lots of praise," said Dr Andics.
"There were 12 sessions of preparatory training, then seven sessions in the scanner room, then these dogs were able to lie motionless for as long as eight minutes. Once they were trained, they were so happy, I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it." 8)

For comparison, the team looked at the brains of 22 human volunteers in the same MRI scanners.
The scientists played the people and pooches 200 different sounds, ranging from environmental noises, such as car sounds and whistles, to human sounds (but not words) and dog vocalisations.

The researchers found that a similar region - the temporal pole, which is the most anterior part of the temporal lobe - was activated when both the animals and people heard human voices.

"We do know there are voice areas in humans, areas that respond more strongly to human sounds that any other types of sounds," Dr Andics explained.
"The location (of the activity) in the dog brain is very similar to where we found it in the human brain. The fact that we found these areas exist at all in the dog brain at all is a surprise - it is the first time we have seen this in a non-primate."

Emotional sounds, such as crying and laughter also had a similar pattern of activity, with an area near the primary auditory cortex lighting up in dogs and humans.
Likewise, emotionally charged dog vocalisations - such as whimpering or angry barking - also caused a similar reaction in all volunteers,

Dr Andics said: "We know very well that dogs are very good at tuning into the feelings of their owners, and we know a good dog owner can detect emotional changes in his dog - but we now begin to understand why this can be."

However, while the dogs responded to the human voice, their reactions were far stronger when it came to canine sounds.
They also seemed less able to distinguish between environmental sounds and vocal noises compared with humans.
About half of the whole auditory cortex lit up in dogs when listening to these noises, compared with 3% of the same area in humans.

Commenting on the research, Prof Sophie Scott, from the Institute of Cognitive Neuroscience at University College London, said: "Finding something like this in a primate brain isn't too surprising - but it is quite something to demonstrate it in dogs.

"Dogs are a very interesting animal to look at - we have selected for a lot of traits in dogs that have made them very amenable to humans. Some studies have show they understand a lot of words and they understand intentionality - pointing."

But she added: "It would be interesting to see the animal's response to words rather than just sounds. When we cry and laugh, they are much more like animal calls and this might be causing this response.
"A step further would be if they had gone in and shown sensitivity to words in the language their owners speech."

Dr Andics said this would be the focus of his next set of experiments.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26276660
 
I often find scientists quite amusing when they ask such questions. Before animal welfare was put into place there was a lot of questions about 'do animals experience pain' and 'can they be traumatized like humans can. Prior to that it was felt that any species that was not human would of course not experience pain like we do, or could be traumatized like we can be, almost as if we have been selected and singled our by evolution to be the ONLY species that could possibly have higher cognitive functions or experience pain.

Many people would be surprised to learn that animal welfare (the small amount that there is) only applies to mammals/Avians, and huge amounts of experiments are still undertaken on insect and other species, because scientists have yet to learn (or in other words 'admit') whether or not that these species feel pain.

Despite experiments on crabs, lobsters, squid, occtopus, fish and spiders (and despite the large evidence that animals such as squid and occupies are highly intelligent) some scientists still argue that these species are unable to feel pain in the same way that mammals do.

The have undertaken certain 'research' where they cut off the legs and tentacles of crabs, lobsters and squid in order to observe if they act in a manner that would be in accord with our idea of 'pain' and have observed that in such cases these animals show signs of distress and attempting to 'sooth' the area via grooming the affected area repeatedly, yet still refuse to admit that such experiments cause actual pain in the same manner it occurs in mammals.

I find it a shame that scientists apply the 'scientific method' when it comes to such matters, the idea that something is unproven until empirical research proves it to be true is all fine and well when discussing obtuse ideas such as quantum physics, but when it comes to living creatures, it seems science needs to completely rethink its ethical standpoints
 
Chimps use ingenuity to make great escape out of zoo
[video]
By David Millward, US Correspondent
3:58PM BST 11 Apr 2014

It was as well orchestrated as the escapes seen in Second World War films, showing evidence of lengthy and careful planning.
After they had made sure no one was looking, seven chimpanzees made a carefully co-ordinated bid for freedom from their pen in Kansas City Zoo.

The ringleader found a six foot log and turned it into an ladder by leaning it against the perimeter wall.
According to Randy Wisthoff, the zoo’s director, having secured the escape route, the chimp then beckoned to another six chimps to join him.
Another five declined to join the exodus.

The breakout triggered an hour-long lockdown of the zoo, which had 1,800 visitors, as Mr Wisthoff ordered a Code Red response, gathering all staff to capture the escapees.

The chimps, having left their enclosure, appeared to decide that life was perhaps better in captivity after all when meal time came around.
Keepers offering lettuce, carrots, celery and fruit lured the chimps back in groups of two or three.

But this failed to tempt one recalcitrant chimp, who appeared determined to make a break for freedom.
However the chimp’s resolve weakened when keepers brought out bags of malted milk balls.
“That was the clincher,” Mr Wisthoff said.

Following the mass simian breakout, the zoo’s management has ordered the removal of all large branches and logs from the enclosure as part of a security review.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... f-zoo.html
 
Rats shown to feel regret over bad decisions
By Zoe Gough, Reporter, BBC Nature

Rats experience regret when their actions make them miss out on better food options, a study has found.
It is the first time regret has been identified in mammals other than humans.

Researchers created situations where rats had to choose whether to wait a set amount of time for a food reward, or move onto another one.
Those that moved on and found the next offering was even worse showed regretful behaviour.

The study was conducted by neuroscientists based at the University of Minnesota, US; their findings are reported in Nature Neuroscience.
It suggests thoughts similar to regret can affect the future decisions rodents make and dispels the belief that regret is unique to humans.

Prof David Redish, from the US-based research team, said it was important to differentiate regret from disappointment.
"Regret is the recognition that you made a mistake, that if you had done something else, you would have been better off," he said.
"The hard part was that we had to separate disappointment, which is just when things aren't as good as you hoped. The key was letting the rats choose."

They developed a task called Restaurant Row, in which rats decided how long they were willing to wait for different foods during a 60-minute run.
"It's like waiting in line at the restaurant," Prof Redish. "If the line is too long at the Chinese restaurant, then you give up and go to the Indian restaurant across the street."

The rats waited longer for their preferred flavours, meaning the researchers could determine good and bad food options.
Occasionally the rats decided not to wait for a good option and moved on, only to find themselves facing a bad option - the scientists called this a regret-inducing situation.
In these cases the rats often paused and looked back at the reward they had passed over.
They also made changes in their subsequent decisions, being more likely to wait at the next zone and rushing to eat the reward that followed. The scientists say such behaviour is consistent with the expression of regret.

When experiments were carried out where the rats encountered bad options without making incorrect decisions, such behaviour was not present.
"In humans, a part of the brain called the orbitofrontal cortex is active during regret. We found that in rats recognising that they made a mistake, their orbitofrontal cortex represented the missed opportunity," Prof Redish said.
"Interestingly, the rat's orbitofrontal cortex represented what the rat should have done, not the missed reward. This makes sense because you don't regret the thing you didn't get, you regret the thing you didn't do."

Prof Redish believes that this animal model of regret could now be used to help understand how regret affects the decisions humans make.

Dr Mark Walton, from the University of Oxford, who reviewed the research, said the findings were significant as they showed a high level of cognitive ability in rats and also praised the team's experiment.
"It is a clever way to look at cognitive processes, seeing how rats perform these tasks can open up how they think and behave in the wild," he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/27716493
 
Crayfish may experience form of anxiety
By Rebecca Morelle, Science Correspondent, BBC News

Crustaceans may be able to experience some emotions, a study published in the journal Science suggests.
Researchers in France have found that crayfish seem to show anxiety, a feeling previously thought to be too complex for these primitive animals.
It follows a number of studies that suggest that crustaceans can also feel pain.
Some experts say the seafood industry may need to rethink how it treats these creatures.

Dr Daniel Cattaert, from the University of Bordeaux, who carried out the research, said: "Crayfish are primitive, they have been around for hundreds of millions of years.
"The idea that this animal could express some anxiety didn't seem possible, but with our experiments we're more and more convinced that this was the case."

To investigate, the scientists exposed the crustaceans to a stressful situation - in this case an unpleasant electric field.
The creatures were then placed into a cross-shaped tank. Two of the arms of the cross were dark - an environment that most crayfish prefer, while two were light.

Dr Cattaert said: "When you have a naive crayfish (one not exposed to the electric field), you observe that the animal will go in all of the arms, but with a slight preference for the dark arms.
"But when we place a stressed animal in the maze, we observe the animal never goes in the light arms.
"The light arms are perceived as too threatening."

The researchers found that the crayfish produced high levels of serotonin, a chemical that is released by the brain to counteract anxiety.
They also discovered that when they injected the stressed creatures with an anti-anxiety drug, they stopped being so wary and began to explore the light arms of the tank.

"The behaviour observed was reminiscent of anxiety behaviour," said Dr Cattaert.
He said that anxiety could have evolved much earlier than previously thought and that it was a useful feature for survival.
"If an animal has expressed stress, after this, if the animal doesn't change at all its behaviour - it goes on exploring - then it may encounter a predator," explained Dr Cattaert.
"But if the crayfish changes its behaviour, then it will avoid being in a situation where danger may occur. Even if there is no predator, it will be minimising this threat."

The fact that these animals may get anxious adds to a number of studies that suggest crustaceans also feel pain.

Commenting on the research, Prof Bob Elwood, from Queen's University Belfast, said: "This work shows the behaviour is consistent with a state of anxiety.
"But pinning together what the animals are feeling is the impossible thing. We know how we are feeling, and we know the behaviour associated with that - but you cannot ask a crayfish how it feels.
"The crustaceans are showing the behaviour, but some people will say that doesn't mean they feel anxious in the way we feel."

However, he said that if there was a possibility that the creatures feel anxiety and pain, then their welfare should be looked at.
Crustaceans are not considered sentient by bodies such as the European Food Safety Authority, and there are no regulations concerning their treatment.
Prof Elwood said: "I think it must be regarded as a possibility that they experience anxiety and pain.
"And if we consider there is a possibility, then effective safeguards against inflicting pain should be taken just to be on the safe side, and we should also ensure they are killed rapidly."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-27812367
 
There must be a claws in the researchers' contracts allowing this.

More seriously, if crustaceans do feel pain and anxiety, I doubt that will stop people cooking them. Cows, chickens and pigs feel pain too, after all.
 
What about our fear and anxiety about no more crustracean suppers?

A confused recollection of walrus and carpenter is coming on . . . it makes me emotional to have to do it . . . but I scoffed the bloomin' lot! :)
 
Accommodation and love in the penguin world:

Penguins switch Torquay zoo breeding site after 'squabble'

A pair of penguins in a south Devon zoo have set up a nest with penguins of a different breed after the male had a squabble.
Macaroni penguins Juan and Pebbles have rejected the company of the other macaronis on the birds' preferred rocky beach at Living Coasts.
They were now breeding down a burrow with African penguins, staff said.

Despite the "unusual behaviour", the pair stood a "good chance of breeding successfully", they added.
Torquay's zoo is home to a total of about 80 birds of the two species, including 17-year-old Juan and seven-year-old Pebbles.

African penguins nest in burrows dug into sand while sub-Antarctic macaroni penguins usually preferred to lay their eggs on piles of pebbles in the open, the zoo said.

But Juan left the macaronis and started living in the burrow "after a squabble over a nest site with another male" last year, keeper Cara Burton said.
She said: "He spent a lot of time on the African penguin beach during the summer.
"When winter arrived, he moved into a burrow - probably for shelter - and has stayed put ever since.

"Pebbles showed interest in him last year but nothing happened. This year she tried to tempt him back to macaroni beach a few times but had no luck, so she joined him. This is unusual behaviour.
"However, I think they stand a good chance of breeding successfully.

"Macaroni penguins always kick the first egg out of the nest and then lay a second. They have done this. Everything seems to be going smoothly."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-27828932
 
Horses' mobile ears are 'communication tool'
By Victoria Gill, Science reporter, BBC News

Very mobile ears help many animals direct their attention to the rustle of a possible predator.
But a study in horses suggests they also pay close attention to the direction another's ears are pointing in order to work out what they are thinking.
Researchers from the University of Sussex say these swivelling ears have become a useful communication tool.
Their findings are published in the journal Current Biology.
The research team studies animal behaviour to build up a picture of how communication and social skills evolved.

"We're interested in how [they] communicate," said lead researcher Jennifer Wathan.
"And being sensitive to what another individual is thinking is a fundamental skill from which other [more complex] skills develop."

Ms Wathan and her colleague Prof Karen McComb set up a behavioural experiment where horses had to use visual cues from another horse in order to choose where to feed.
They led each horse to a point where it had to select one of two buckets. On a wall behind this decision-making spot was a life-sized photograph of a horse's head facing either to left or right.

In some of the trials, the horses ears or eyes were covered.
If the ears and eyes of the horse in the picture were visible, the horses being tested would choose the bucket towards which its gaze - and its ears - were directed.
If the horse in the picture had either its eyes or its ears covered, the horse being tested would just choose a feed bucket at random.

Like many mammals that are hunted by predators, horses can rotate their ears through almost 180 degrees - but Ms Wathan said that in our "human-centric" view of the world, we had overlooked the importance of these very mobile ears in animal communication.

[Video: Lead researcher Jennifer Wathan explains how the team tested each horse's decision-making]

"It seems there's something in the visual cues - from both the eyes and the ears - that are really important," she told BBC News.
"Horses have quite rich social lives and relationships with other horses, so they're a good species to look at this in.
"And the more we look at communication across different species, the more we can consider what might have promoted the evolution of sophisticated communication and social skills."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/28583944
 
Giant panda ‘faked pregnancy for extra treats and nicer accommodation’
Giant panda Ai Hin may have faked her pregnancy for a 'better quality of life'
By Mark Molloy and AFP
4:45PM BST 27 Aug 2014

The planned first ever live-broadcast of a panda giving birth has been cancelled amid claims the expectant mother faked her pregnancy.
Giant panda Ai Hin may have tricked staff at a breeding centre in China to receive more pampering and extra food rations, according to AFP. :shock:

The six-year-old had shown signs of pregnancy last month, according to staff at the Chengdu Breeding Research Centre, in China's southwestern province of Sichuana.
But shortly after being moved to a single room with air conditioning and around-the-clock care her “behaviour and physiological indexes returned to normal”.

Experts believe Ai Hin was enjoying the extra attention and additional treats before staff realised she wasn’t actually pregnant.
"They receive more buns, fruits and bamboo, so some clever pandas have used this to their advantage to improve their quality of life," said Wu Kongju, an employee at the panda base.

Many bears continue to display pregnant behaviour after noticing the difference in treatment they receive, according to state news agency Xinhua.

China’s giant panda population is under threat due to a loss of habitat and their notoriously low reproductive rate.

Lets hope Edinburgh Zoo’s pregnant panda is not pulling the same trick.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... ation.html

If this is true, then there ought to be more research into panda thinking!
So pandas are aware of being pregnant?
That's more than some human teenagers can manage! :twisted:
 
Sounds like she wants them to pander to her needs. :)
 
Photographer captures moment kangaroo cradles dying companion as joey looks on
Heartbreaking image snapped by Evan Switzer in Queensland shows marsupial family’s grief
Nadia Khomami
Wednesday 13 January 2016 18.13 GMT

A photographer has captured the tragic moment a young kangaroo reached out to touch its dying mother one last time.

Evan Switzer took the picture on a bushland property in River Heads, Queensland, Australia, during a walk on Monday morning. He described how he witnessed the mother kangaroo dying under the shade of a mango tree while being supported by a male companion, who propped up her head so she could see her joey before she died.
The joey stared at his mother and touched her softly, before standing protectively near her body.

“I saw the male pick up the female, he looked like he was just trying to get her up and see what was wrong with her,” Switzer told the Daily Mail. “He would lift her up and she wouldn’t stand she’d just fall to the ground, he’d nudge her, stand besides her … it was a pretty special thing, he was just mourning the loss of his mate.”

After the mother kangaroo died, the male companion guarded her body and chased after any other kangaroos that came near her corpse.
“I’ve travelled around a bit and you see a lot of dead roos on the side of the road – but I’ve never seen anything like that before,” Switzer said. “The male would chase the other kangaroos that came around away – he was sort of protective over the female.
“The young one looked kind of confused, it would stand by the mother and then hop off and chew some grass, and then come right back again.”

It is not clear how the mother kangaroo died. She had no visible injuries.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/13/photographer-mother-kangaroo-dying-queensland-australia
 
It's a touching moment that shows us there's not such a huge gulf between humans and animals.
 
rynner2 said:
Photographer captures moment kangaroo cradles dying companion as joey looks on

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/13/photographer-mother-kangaroo-dying-queensland-australia
Click to expand...

A few kangaroo experts have chimed in on this one. They reckon it's not so much "cradling a dying companion" as "C'mon, get up, I'm horny" and that sex may even have caused the fatality.

An expert says photographs which were claimed to show a "grieving" kangaroo farewelling its dying mate actually show something quite different.

The images, appearing to show a male kangaroo nursing its dying companion, pulled at heart strings on social media.

An expert has now revealed the images, taken by Hervey Bay local Evan Switzer, have been "fundamentally misinterpreted" and actually show an "agitated, sexually aroused" male kangaroo.

Dr Mark Eldridge, Australian Museum principal research scientist, said the kangaroo was not "propping up her head so she could see her joey before she died".

"This is a male trying to get a female to stand up so he can mate with her," he said.

"The male is clearly highly stressed and agitated, his forearms are very wet from him licking himself to cool down.

"He is also sexually aroused. The evidence is here sticking out from behind the scrotum — yes, in marsupials the penis is located behind the scrotum."

Wildlife Rescue Officer Leonie Petrie said in her experience kangaroos would "take any opportunity they get" to mate.

"In my opinion I think he was looking for some love," she said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-...actually-sexually-aroused-expert-says/7088654

But Dr Derek Spielman, a senior lecturer in veterinary pathology at the University of Sydney, told Guardian Australia that he had “no doubt” that the male was in fact attempting to mate with the female animal – and might have caused the injuries that she died from.

He said the photographs showed the male kangaroo “mate guarding” – holding other males at bay.

“Competition between males to mate with females can be fierce and can end in serious fighting,” he said. “It can also cause severe harassment and even physical abuse of the target female, particularly when she is unresponsive or tries to get away from amorous male.

“Pursuit of these females by males can be persistent and very aggressive to the point where they can kill the female. That is not their intention but that unfortunately can be the result, so interpreting the male’s actions as being based on care for the welfare of the female or the joey is a gross misunderstanding, so much so that the male might have actually caused the death of the female.”

http://www.theguardian.com/science/...roo-viral-but-scientist-says-sexually-aroused
 
So, it's not enough to demonise some muslims for their aggressive behaviour towards females, now we are asked to believe that kangaroos act like animals too! :twisted:
 
If Mary and Jesus had prick-up ears and a Joey-sack, the Pietà would be banned! :eek:

600px-Michelangelo's_Pieta_5450_cut_out_black.jpg
 
Tribble said:
A few kangaroo experts have chimed in on this one. They reckon it's not so much "cradling a dying companion" as "C'mon, get up, I'm horny" and that sex may even have caused the fatality.

An expert says photographs which were claimed to show a "grieving" kangaroo farewelling its dying mate actually show something quite different.

The images, appearing to show a male kangaroo nursing its dying companion, pulled at heart strings on social media.

An expert has now revealed the images, taken by Hervey Bay local Evan Switzer, have been "fundamentally misinterpreted" and actually show an "agitated, sexually aroused" male kangaroo.

Dr Mark Eldridge, Australian Museum principal research scientist, said the kangaroo was not "propping up her head so she could see her joey before she died".

"This is a male trying to get a female to stand up so he can mate with her," he said.

"The male is clearly highly stressed and agitated, his forearms are very wet from him licking himself to cool down.

"He is also sexually aroused. The evidence is here sticking out from behind the scrotum — yes, in marsupials the penis is located behind the scrotum."

Wildlife Rescue Officer Leonie Petrie said in her experience kangaroos would "take any opportunity they get" to mate.

"In my opinion I think he was looking for some love," she said.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-...actually-sexually-aroused-expert-says/7088654

But Dr Derek Spielman, a senior lecturer in veterinary pathology at the University of Sydney, told Guardian Australia that he had “no doubt” that the male was in fact attempting to mate with the female animal – and might have caused the injuries that she died from.

He said the photographs showed the male kangaroo “mate guarding” – holding other males at bay.

“Competition between males to mate with females can be fierce and can end in serious fighting,” he said. “It can also cause severe harassment and even physical abuse of the target female, particularly when she is unresponsive or tries to get away from amorous male.

“Pursuit of these females by males can be persistent and very aggressive to the point where they can kill the female. That is not their intention but that unfortunately can be the result, so interpreting the male’s actions as being based on care for the welfare of the female or the joey is a gross misunderstanding, so much so that the male might have actually caused the death of the female.”

http://www.theguardian.com/science/...roo-viral-but-scientist-says-sexually-aroused
Click to expand...



There is a certain amount of bullshit that is being passed around about this story - it is very fashionable to see all males as just rapists, and now it's being imposed on the natural world, i.e. this story - None of us know the true story behind this, except for the photographer - all I will say is "Honi soit qui mal y pense", because until you get out there and observe kangaroo behaviour for years like some have done, rather than stand at a lectern and pontificate about a subject because you read about it in a book, how would you really know? Fuck 'em.
 
Koko: The Gorilla Who Talks to People
Documentary telling the extraordinary story of Koko, the only 'talking' gorilla in the world, and her lifelong relationship with Penny Patterson.

Project Koko started as a PhD project to teach sign language to a baby gorilla, but as Koko began to communicate with Penny, an intense bond formed between them. Penny has now been with Koko for over 40 years and claims Koko can reveal fresh insights into the workings of an animal's mind.

Koko's unique life with Penny has been filmed every step of the way. Over 2,000 hours of footage chart the most dramatic moments - Penny's battle to keep Koko from being taken back to the zoo in which she was born, Penny's clash with academic critics who doubted her claims and the image of Koko mourning the death of her kitten. Penny believes that Koko has moved beyond simple language to express complex emotions - such as a longing for a baby gorilla of her own, and that the empathy she evokes in people changes their attitudes to all animals.

This film explores what we can really learn from this extraordinary science experiment turned love affair. Does it tell us more about animals' emotions or our own?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07gxpd7/koko-the-gorilla-who-talks-to-people

I'm just about to watch this, so it may take some time before I can comment....
 
rynner2 said:
Koko: The Gorilla Who Talks to People
Documentary telling the extraordinary story of Koko, the only 'talking' gorilla in the world, and her lifelong relationship with Penny Patterson.

Project Koko started as a PhD project to teach sign language to a baby gorilla, but as Koko began to communicate with Penny, an intense bond formed between them. Penny has now been with Koko for over 40 years and claims Koko can reveal fresh insights into the workings of an animal's mind.

Koko's unique life with Penny has been filmed every step of the way. Over 2,000 hours of footage chart the most dramatic moments - Penny's battle to keep Koko from being taken back to the zoo in which she was born, Penny's clash with academic critics who doubted her claims and the image of Koko mourning the death of her kitten. Penny believes that Koko has moved beyond simple language to express complex emotions - such as a longing for a baby gorilla of her own, and that the empathy she evokes in people changes their attitudes to all animals.

This film explores what we can really learn from this extraordinary science experiment turned love affair. Does it tell us more about animals' emotions or our own?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07gxpd7/koko-the-gorilla-who-talks-to-people

I'm just about to watch this, so it may take some time before I can comment....
Click to expand...
Just watched this. A little light on facts and an uncomfortable feeling that raising a gorilla as a person left it unable to be either a gorilla or a person. Not sure what I feel about that at the moment.
 
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