Obama 'Birtherism' & Associated Conspiracy Theories
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DougalLongfoot
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An interesting blog here:
http://bit.ly/VyApt
About the "Birther" movement. Two videos included, one very scary about a woman asking a Republican congressman why they haven't challenged Obama on his birthplace, she then hijacks the meeting and demands everyone recite the pledge of allegiance. The other is a very good interview with a journalist castigating a republican for pandering to the Birthers. The Republicans simply can't win on this issue.
http://bit.ly/VyApt
About the "Birther" movement. Two videos included, one very scary about a woman asking a Republican congressman why they haven't challenged Obama on his birthplace, she then hijacks the meeting and demands everyone recite the pledge of allegiance. The other is a very good interview with a journalist castigating a republican for pandering to the Birthers. The Republicans simply can't win on this issue.
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It is indeed.DougalLongfoot said:
And the second video probably reassures many of us outside America that the whole USA is not made up of 'birther wackos'! 8)
But at least this conspiracy is understandable as political bias taken to ludicrous extremes.
(What I don't understand is how so many Americans can downgrade their country's greatest technical and international achievement, the Moon Landings, to a hoax?! :shock: Who the hell profits from that?
Reply here Moon Landing - Hoaxed? - if you must!
)
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Reaction to the birthers seems to be growing..
Right Wing US conspiracists question Obama's birth certificate
On the fringes of the American right, a growing conspiracy claims that Barack Obama is hiding a Kenyan birth certificate, making him ineligible to serve as president.
By Leonard Doyle in Washington
Published: 5:31PM BST 25 Jul 2009
Congress is wrestling with historic health care reforms, soldiers are dying in far off lands and President Barack Obama is fighting to keep the economic recovery on track.
But on the wilder shores of the American Right, the question that refuses to die is whether Mr Obama was genuinely born on US soil. If not, he would be ineligible to be President.
Conspiracy theorists and far right wingers, who have begun to call themselves "birthers", maintain that Mr Obama is not entitled to be President of the US because he is "foreign born".
The White House has published copies of Mr Obama's official birth certificate - a printed summary of his birth details, including the name of the medical centre in Honolulu, Hawaii, where he was born. But the conspiracists maintain there is something suspicious in the absence of a photocopy of his original birth record, known as the "long form". This would have been prepared by doctors or hospital officials involved in his birth and would contain fuller details - including the address of his parents.
They dismiss as a distraction a birth announcement for Mr Obama that appeared in the Honolulu Advertiser on August 13, 1961 - nine days after he was born.
George Gordon Liddy, the former Nixon supporter who served a four and a half year prison sentence for leading the Watergate burglary and who is now a conservative talk radio host, said: "This whole thing could be settled in a minute if the President would simply produce a valid birth certificate."
Mr Liddy maintains that Mr Obama was in fact born in Kenya, his father's home country, and claims to have seen a deposition by the President's Kenyan step-grandmother, 86-year-old Sarah Obama, stating that the city of his birth was Mombasa. The President is therefore "an illegal alien", Mr Liddy says.
The debate might have continued to bubble away beneath the radar of most Americans had the suspicions not been given a mainstream airing by Lou Dobbs, a popular CNN commentator and host who has his own popular radio show broadcast by the network.
Mr Obama should do more to dispel the claims, he said on his programme - a mixture of news and opinion - last week. "When this could be dispelled so quickly, and simply by producing it, why not do it?" he asked.
CNN has attempted to distance itself from the doubts of Mr Dobbs and the beliefs of the conspiracy theorists, displaying Mr Obama's "short" birth certificate on air. "To a large and vocal group of Americans, this paper (birth certificate) that I just showed you might as well be bathroom tissue," said Rick Sanchez, one of the station's news anchormen. But their claim, he added, was "a completely unfounded story".
The television company's president, Jon Klein told staffers of Lou Dobbs Tonight that the controversy regarding the legitimacy of Mr Obama's birth certificate now appeared to be a "dead" story.
In an email, he said that CNN researchers had determined that Hawaiian officials discarded paper documents in 2001. Because of that, Obama's long-form birth certificate no longer exists and the shorter certificate of live birth that has been made public is the sole official record. "It seems to definitively answer the question," he said.
Other investigators have meanwhile established that the supposed deposition from Mr Obama's Kenyan step-grandmother was in fact no more than a partial transcript of a telephone conversation with the woman, who does not speak English. According to the transcript, the caller suggested Mr Obama was born in Kenya but was told by the translater that he was mistaken.
The renewed controversy has outraged the American Left and horrified many conservatives too.
The liberal radio host, Steven Collins, said: "We have serious issues right now. We have a huge economy, millions of people out of work.
"It's so ridiculous that we're sitting here tonight wasting time talking about, 'Is he an American?' Come on!"
The reason, he said, was that "many people in this nation cannot still accept the fact that a brilliant African-American is the commander-in-chief, and they're looking for ways to reduce the greatness of his purity as a person who is serving this nation."
Joe Scarborough, a former Republican Congressman who hosts his own cable news show described the "birthers" as "cartoon characters".
"Instead of trying to actually figure out what's happening to their country, the terrible things that are happening economically to their country," such people would rather "embrace conspiracy theories," he said.
He compared the conspiracy theorists to people who believe "the United States government blew up its own buildings and killed its own people on September 11", or that American astronauts "never landed on the moon."
Michael Medved, a conservative talk-show host, described the leadership of the so-called "birther" movement as "crazy, nutburger, demagogue, money-hungry, exploitative, irresponsible, filthy conservative impostors." 8)
They caused terrible damage to the conservative movement, he added. "It makes us look weird. It makes us look crazy. It makes us look demented. It makes us look sick, troubled, and not suitable for civilised company."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... icate.html
Right Wing US conspiracists question Obama's birth certificate
On the fringes of the American right, a growing conspiracy claims that Barack Obama is hiding a Kenyan birth certificate, making him ineligible to serve as president.
By Leonard Doyle in Washington
Published: 5:31PM BST 25 Jul 2009
Congress is wrestling with historic health care reforms, soldiers are dying in far off lands and President Barack Obama is fighting to keep the economic recovery on track.
But on the wilder shores of the American Right, the question that refuses to die is whether Mr Obama was genuinely born on US soil. If not, he would be ineligible to be President.
Conspiracy theorists and far right wingers, who have begun to call themselves "birthers", maintain that Mr Obama is not entitled to be President of the US because he is "foreign born".
The White House has published copies of Mr Obama's official birth certificate - a printed summary of his birth details, including the name of the medical centre in Honolulu, Hawaii, where he was born. But the conspiracists maintain there is something suspicious in the absence of a photocopy of his original birth record, known as the "long form". This would have been prepared by doctors or hospital officials involved in his birth and would contain fuller details - including the address of his parents.
They dismiss as a distraction a birth announcement for Mr Obama that appeared in the Honolulu Advertiser on August 13, 1961 - nine days after he was born.
George Gordon Liddy, the former Nixon supporter who served a four and a half year prison sentence for leading the Watergate burglary and who is now a conservative talk radio host, said: "This whole thing could be settled in a minute if the President would simply produce a valid birth certificate."
Mr Liddy maintains that Mr Obama was in fact born in Kenya, his father's home country, and claims to have seen a deposition by the President's Kenyan step-grandmother, 86-year-old Sarah Obama, stating that the city of his birth was Mombasa. The President is therefore "an illegal alien", Mr Liddy says.
The debate might have continued to bubble away beneath the radar of most Americans had the suspicions not been given a mainstream airing by Lou Dobbs, a popular CNN commentator and host who has his own popular radio show broadcast by the network.
Mr Obama should do more to dispel the claims, he said on his programme - a mixture of news and opinion - last week. "When this could be dispelled so quickly, and simply by producing it, why not do it?" he asked.
CNN has attempted to distance itself from the doubts of Mr Dobbs and the beliefs of the conspiracy theorists, displaying Mr Obama's "short" birth certificate on air. "To a large and vocal group of Americans, this paper (birth certificate) that I just showed you might as well be bathroom tissue," said Rick Sanchez, one of the station's news anchormen. But their claim, he added, was "a completely unfounded story".
The television company's president, Jon Klein told staffers of Lou Dobbs Tonight that the controversy regarding the legitimacy of Mr Obama's birth certificate now appeared to be a "dead" story.
In an email, he said that CNN researchers had determined that Hawaiian officials discarded paper documents in 2001. Because of that, Obama's long-form birth certificate no longer exists and the shorter certificate of live birth that has been made public is the sole official record. "It seems to definitively answer the question," he said.
Other investigators have meanwhile established that the supposed deposition from Mr Obama's Kenyan step-grandmother was in fact no more than a partial transcript of a telephone conversation with the woman, who does not speak English. According to the transcript, the caller suggested Mr Obama was born in Kenya but was told by the translater that he was mistaken.
The renewed controversy has outraged the American Left and horrified many conservatives too.
The liberal radio host, Steven Collins, said: "We have serious issues right now. We have a huge economy, millions of people out of work.
"It's so ridiculous that we're sitting here tonight wasting time talking about, 'Is he an American?' Come on!"
The reason, he said, was that "many people in this nation cannot still accept the fact that a brilliant African-American is the commander-in-chief, and they're looking for ways to reduce the greatness of his purity as a person who is serving this nation."
Joe Scarborough, a former Republican Congressman who hosts his own cable news show described the "birthers" as "cartoon characters".
"Instead of trying to actually figure out what's happening to their country, the terrible things that are happening economically to their country," such people would rather "embrace conspiracy theories," he said.
He compared the conspiracy theorists to people who believe "the United States government blew up its own buildings and killed its own people on September 11", or that American astronauts "never landed on the moon."
Michael Medved, a conservative talk-show host, described the leadership of the so-called "birther" movement as "crazy, nutburger, demagogue, money-hungry, exploitative, irresponsible, filthy conservative impostors." 8)
They caused terrible damage to the conservative movement, he added. "It makes us look weird. It makes us look crazy. It makes us look demented. It makes us look sick, troubled, and not suitable for civilised company."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... icate.html
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rynner2 said:
Yes, it does, and, yes, they are.
Read the below from a right-wing message board - it gives a good insight into the minds of the "birthers"... :shock:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-new ... &;page=101
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-new ... &;page=101
DougalLongfoot
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You know, if I was a citizen of the US, all this would be encouraging me to be working my butt off to get that section of the constitution changed. Why on earth does the President have to be born in America? So many capable people born in other parts of the world, and so many dolts born in the US.
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That passport thing is ridiculous. Even if a country were on a 'no travel list' for the nation of origin of your passport it quite definitely does not mean that you can't obtain a visa for and or enter that country with that passport, especially if you are 'shuttling' around in Asia. Dollars speak much louder than foreign office advisories in many parts of the world, including embassies and border posts in this part of the world 
Timble2
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DougalLongfoot said:
IIRC the original idea was so that the British Royal family, or any of the nobility couldn't wheedle in by election, and be in a position to take back control of the country to the United Kingdom...
The "birthers" claim to have found Obama's "real" Birth Ceritifcate from Kenya.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105764
Though there are some big problems with this one...
The number is 47044 - Obama is 47 and the 44th President of the US.
It is signed by a certain "E.F. Lavender" - which just happens to be a popular laundry liquid in Kenya...
It is dated Feb 1964 and mentions the "Republic of Kenya" - which wasn't proclaimed until Dec 1964...
Obama was born in 1961 and according to this document, he was born in Mombassa. But in 1961, Mombassa was still part of Zanzibar.
The "birthers" mistrust an Hawaiian document, but believe one that mysteriously just appeared from Kenya?
None of this makes much sense to me.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=105764
Though there are some big problems with this one...
The number is 47044 - Obama is 47 and the 44th President of the US.
It is signed by a certain "E.F. Lavender" - which just happens to be a popular laundry liquid in Kenya...
It is dated Feb 1964 and mentions the "Republic of Kenya" - which wasn't proclaimed until Dec 1964...
Obama was born in 1961 and according to this document, he was born in Mombassa. But in 1961, Mombassa was still part of Zanzibar.
The "birthers" mistrust an Hawaiian document, but believe one that mysteriously just appeared from Kenya?
None of this makes much sense to me.
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This isn't the first alleged birth certificate to have been produced as far as I can recall. These documents are beginning to take on the quality of hooky religious relics - he's got more birth certificates than St Stephen had forefingers.
ramonmercado
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rynner2 said:It is indeed.DougalLongfoot said:
And the second video probably reassures many of us outside America that the whole USA is not made up of 'birther wackos'! 8)
But at least this conspiracy is understandable as political bias taken to ludicrous extremes.
(What I don't understand is how so many Americans can downgrade their country's greatest technical and international achievement, the Moon Landings, to a hoax?! :shock: Who the hell profits from that?
Reply here Moon Landing - Hoaxed? - if you must!
*SIGH*
We Americans do seem to have more than our fair share of wackos.
And now the newly ex-Governor of Alaska, Sarah Palin, is informing us that the President's new health plan means that the storm troopers will soon be arriving at her house to kill her elderly parents and her Down syndrome baby.
Apparently Obama is not only no American--he's a NAZI!!! :shock:
*SIGH*
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Yes, there's a good article here linking the birther and healthcare issues:
Obama gives birth to some genuine hatred
Why does the American Right insist its opponents are not just wrong, but illegitimate; not mistaken, but anti-American?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 790709.ece
Obama gives birth to some genuine hatred
Why does the American Right insist its opponents are not just wrong, but illegitimate; not mistaken, but anti-American?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/commen ... 790709.ece
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Ah, rynner, if only I knew!
It just seems that our two major parties (Democratic and Republican) keep drifting further and further apart, and sadly it isn't a peaceful separation, it is so full of hatred and venom and spite. It's really discouraging!
I think one reason (and as a Democrat and a progressive I admit I may be a touch biased here
)--but it seems like the Republican party has largely been commandeered by the far right. The far right is convinced that it is the party favored by God, the party of morality and "family values" and all the good old-fashioned American values. So if anyone dares to disagree with them, you're automatically branded as anti-Christian, anti-morality, anti-God...you can imagine what that leads to!
I think somewhere along the way we lost the "middle". People on the extremes--right OR left--are inflexible, certain that they are right and that the other side is not just wrong, but full of bad intentions and therefore must be completely crushed. How can you get anything accomplished with that kind of mind-set??
I love my country, I'm proud to be an American, but I hate this divisiveness and the nasty rhetoric and the stupidity of all the infighting.
We've already had one very nasty Civil War (1861-1865)--we do not need another one!!!
It just seems that our two major parties (Democratic and Republican) keep drifting further and further apart, and sadly it isn't a peaceful separation, it is so full of hatred and venom and spite. It's really discouraging!
I think one reason (and as a Democrat and a progressive I admit I may be a touch biased here
)--but it seems like the Republican party has largely been commandeered by the far right. The far right is convinced that it is the party favored by God, the party of morality and "family values" and all the good old-fashioned American values. So if anyone dares to disagree with them, you're automatically branded as anti-Christian, anti-morality, anti-God...you can imagine what that leads to!I think somewhere along the way we lost the "middle". People on the extremes--right OR left--are inflexible, certain that they are right and that the other side is not just wrong, but full of bad intentions and therefore must be completely crushed. How can you get anything accomplished with that kind of mind-set??
I love my country, I'm proud to be an American, but I hate this divisiveness and the nasty rhetoric and the stupidity of all the infighting.
We've already had one very nasty Civil War (1861-1865)--we do not need another one!!!
Nothing really new here, just the same old tired garbage from a bunch of fundamentalist clowns who really need to get a life. What does all this have to do with Christ? Doesn't one of the 10 Commandments forbid bearing false witness? Not that these jokers really seem to pay much attention to the Bible (except that Drake has used a few verses from Psalms to try to justify praying for Obama's death). 
PS I somehow doubt that one person can be a lawyer, dentist, and realtor all at once. That sounds quite fishy.
http://www.abpnews.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=53
Judge sets court date in 'birther' case filed by Wiley Drake
BUENA PARK, Calif. (ABP)
The so-called "Birthers" claimed a small victory Sept. 8 when a federal judge set a tentative trial date of Jan. 26, 2010, for a lawsuit claiming that President Obama is constitutionally ineligible for his office.
"We won again," Wiley Drake, a former second vice president of the Southern Baptist Convention, said of the ruling by federal judge David Carter. Drake is one of several plaintiffs in the lawsuit alleging that Obama cannot hold his office because he does not meet the constitutional requirement that the president be a "natural-born" citizen.
'Birthers' believe this "Certificiation of Live Birth" produced by the Obama campaign to quell rumors about his citizenship is a forgery.
Carter, who sits on the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California, denied a request by plaintiffs to remove a judge who ruled against them in a motion Aug. 6. He vacated one of the lower court's orders, however -- a voluntary dismissal that Drake and another plaintiff said their former lawyer filed without their permission.
Originally Drake, pastor of First Southern Baptist Church in Buena Park, Calif., and fellow plaintiff Markham Robinson hired Orly Taitz, a lawyer, dentist and real estate agent who has filed several suits alleging that Obama is not a natural-born citizen, as their legal counsel.
Taitz has become something of a mini-celebrity in recent months, appearing on cable-television news shows to defend her charge that Obama was actually born in Kenya. She has produced a succession of documents, alleging each time that it is Obama's actual Kenyan birth certificate. Their authenticity has been widely discredited.
Obama has posted online images of his birth certificate, showing that he was born in Hawaii to an American mother and Kenyan father. Independent journalists and fact-checking groups have examined it and affirmed that it appears authentic. Hawaiian state officials -- including the state's Republican governor -- have also indicated that the document is official.
But that hasn't stopped conspiracy theroists who believe Obama is attempting to hide the truth about his background.
In July Drake and Robinson filed papers to switch attorneys to Gary Kreep, executive director of the United States Justice Foundation; they sent a copy to Taitz for her signature. Taitz responded with an e-mail saying that past experience taught her that she and Kreep did not work well together and suggested the plaintiffs should voluntarily dismiss themselves from the case and re-file it separately if they wish.
According to Judge Carter's Sept. 8 order, Taitz refused to sign the substitution-of-attorney documents and filed a notice of voluntary dismissal on behalf of Drake and Robinson. After U.S. Magistrate Judge Arthur Nakazato granted the dismissal Aug. 6, Drake and Robinson claimed they did not give consent to the voluntary dismissal and Taitz had filed it against their wishes. Carter said Taitz acted improperly because "a client has the right to fire a lawyer at any time, with or without cause."
Carter said requiring Drake and Robinson to file a new case that would end up being consolidated with the one already before the court "would cause significant and needless delay."
The plaintiffs had asked Carter to remove Judge Nakazato from the case, arguing that his ruling against them violated Judge Carter's earlier verbal pledge that the case would be allowed to proceed on its merits "without undue regard to technicalities."
Carter said his earlier comment did not intend to suggest that the plaintiffs' legal counsel would be given "a carte blanche" to disregard rules that attorneys must follow in California courts.
http://www.abpnews.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=53
Drake, former SBC officer, says he's praying for Obama to die (updated)
By Bob Allen
Wednesday, June 03, 2009
A former SBC vice president told Fox News Radio's Alan Colmes he is praying 'imprecatory prayer' on President Obama.
NEW YORK (ABP) -- A former Southern Baptist Convention officer who on June 2 called the death of abortion provider George Tiller an answer to prayer said later in the day he is also praying "imprecatory prayer" against President Obama.
Wiley Drake, pastor of First Southern Baptist Church in Buena Park, Calif., and former running mate of American Independent Party presidential candidate Alan Keyes, said June 2 on Fox News Radio he didn't understand why people were upset with his comments quoted by Associated Baptist Press from a webcast of his daily radio talk show.
"Imprecatory prayer is agreeing with God, and if people don't like that, they need to talk to God," Drake told syndicated talk-show host Alan Colmes. "God said it, I didn't. I was just agreeing with God."
Asked if there are others for whom Drake is praying "imprecatory prayer," Drake hesitated before answering that there are several. "The usurper that is in the White House is one, B. Hussein Obama," he said.
Later in the interview, Colmes returned to Drake's answer to make sure he heard him right.
"Are you praying for his death?" Colmes asked.
"Yes," Drake replied.
"So you're praying for the death of the president of the United States?"
"Yes."
Colmes asked Drake if he was concerned that by saying that he might be placed on a Secret Service or FBI watch list, and if he believed it appropriate to talk or pray that way.
"I think it's appropriate to pray the Word of God," Drake said. "I'm not saying anything. What I am doing is repeating what God is saying, and if that puts me on somebody's list, then I'll just have to be on their list."
"You would like for the president of the United States to die?" Colmes asked once more.
"If he does not turn to God and does not turn his life around, I am asking God to enforce imprecatory prayers that are throughout the Scripture that would cause him death, that's correct."
Most of the half-hour interview on "The Alan Colmes Show" is premium programming available by paid subscription, but a five-minute clip appeared as a "top video" on the Fox News Radio website.
Drake said he didn't pray for Tiller to be murdered -- only that God would take his life by some method -- but that he "absolutely" believed that God wanted the doctor dead.
"I believe the whole Bible, Alan," he explained. "I don't just preach part of it. I don't just preach the soft, fuzzy, warm stuff where we're supposed to be nice to everybody. I preach the whole Bible."
Part of the Bible, Drake claimed, is imprecatory prayer -- words of judgment in the Psalms prayed back to God -- a practice he said the church has lost.
Drake fielded calls from a few listeners, including one identifying himself as a lifelong Southern Baptist who said he was saddened to hear a minister would pray for someone to die.
"This whole concept that we're always to pray little, nice, soft, fluffy, prayers -- that we're not to pray imprecatory prayer -- has been something that just, in all honesty, that Southern Baptists have lost, and we need to regain imprecatory prayer," Drake said. "It is in the Bible, and we are proud to say as Southern Baptists that we believe the Book. You've got to believe the whole Book, brother, or you don't believe any of it."
Asked if he thinks there might be other people praying imprecatory prayers for him that might be successful, Drake said, "Well, that's certainly possible, but that's in God's hands, not in mine."
Asked if he claimed to know God's will, Drake replied: "In some cases I do. Not in all cases. I know this, that if I do die right now, I'll go to heaven when I die because I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. That's why I'll go to heaven and not to hell. And the reason George Tiller went to hell when he died was not because he killed babies, as terrible as that was. If he went to hell, and I think he did -- that's God's judgment and not mine -- but if he did go to hell it's because he did not accept Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior."
Drake said he did not believe Tiller's accused killer is a pro-life Christian.
"I'm of the opinion -- and now everybody's going to say 'There goes Wiley down the conspiracy-theory road,' I'm of the opinion that somebody in the Obama camp had this guy killed."
"Who benefits the most from this man killing a doctor?" Drake asked. "We certainly don't. Pro-life people certainly don't. It hurts us. It damages us, but Obama will indeed advance it. This will be one of those crises to take advantage of, and he's already done that."
Drake said he had no evidence and admitted his opinion for now is "pure speculation."
"Everybody said [Lee Harvey] Oswald was a lone gunman, et cetera, et cetera, too," he said. "But I think we're going to find there was somebody else involved."
Drake said Tiller's murder would be a setback for pro-life Christians seeking to end abortion by legal and proper means. He said he also expects to see answers to other imprecatory prayers in the days ahead.
"God says very clearly in his Word that we are to continue to pray and he will answer our prayers," Drake said.
Sing Oldham, vice president for convention relations with the SBC Executive Committee, was unavailable for comment until late on May 4.
He said that while Drake served one year as second vice president of the SBC, he is not now nor has ever been a spokesman for the convention.
"Mr. Drake does not represent Southern Baptist actions, resolutions, or positions in his interpretation and application of 'imprecatory prayers,'" Oldham said. "Any comments made by Wiley Drake on this subject represent his personal views, not those of the Convention."
Oldham said most Baptists view the imprecatory prayers found in the Psalms as private, heartfelt conversations between oppressed people and God, and reflect confidence that God will eventually vindicate the innocent. He said they generally close with a conscious decision not to bear malice and leave final judgment up to God.
"I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of Southern Baptists reject any call to pray imprecatory prayers of death over any individual," he said.
PS I somehow doubt that one person can be a lawyer, dentist, and realtor all at once. That sounds quite fishy.
http://www.abpnews.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=53
Judge sets court date in 'birther' case filed by Wiley Drake
BUENA PARK, Calif. (ABP)
The so-called "Birthers" claimed a small victory Sept. 8 when a federal judge set a tentative trial date of Jan. 26, 2010, for a lawsuit claiming that President Obama is constitutionally ineligible for his office.
"We won again," Wiley Drake, a former second vice president of the Southern Baptist Convention, said of the ruling by federal judge David Carter. Drake is one of several plaintiffs in the lawsuit alleging that Obama cannot hold his office because he does not meet the constitutional requirement that the president be a "natural-born" citizen.
'Birthers' believe this "Certificiation of Live Birth" produced by the Obama campaign to quell rumors about his citizenship is a forgery.
Carter, who sits on the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California, denied a request by plaintiffs to remove a judge who ruled against them in a motion Aug. 6. He vacated one of the lower court's orders, however -- a voluntary dismissal that Drake and another plaintiff said their former lawyer filed without their permission.
Originally Drake, pastor of First Southern Baptist Church in Buena Park, Calif., and fellow plaintiff Markham Robinson hired Orly Taitz, a lawyer, dentist and real estate agent who has filed several suits alleging that Obama is not a natural-born citizen, as their legal counsel.
Taitz has become something of a mini-celebrity in recent months, appearing on cable-television news shows to defend her charge that Obama was actually born in Kenya. She has produced a succession of documents, alleging each time that it is Obama's actual Kenyan birth certificate. Their authenticity has been widely discredited.
Obama has posted online images of his birth certificate, showing that he was born in Hawaii to an American mother and Kenyan father. Independent journalists and fact-checking groups have examined it and affirmed that it appears authentic. Hawaiian state officials -- including the state's Republican governor -- have also indicated that the document is official.
But that hasn't stopped conspiracy theroists who believe Obama is attempting to hide the truth about his background.
In July Drake and Robinson filed papers to switch attorneys to Gary Kreep, executive director of the United States Justice Foundation; they sent a copy to Taitz for her signature. Taitz responded with an e-mail saying that past experience taught her that she and Kreep did not work well together and suggested the plaintiffs should voluntarily dismiss themselves from the case and re-file it separately if they wish.
According to Judge Carter's Sept. 8 order, Taitz refused to sign the substitution-of-attorney documents and filed a notice of voluntary dismissal on behalf of Drake and Robinson. After U.S. Magistrate Judge Arthur Nakazato granted the dismissal Aug. 6, Drake and Robinson claimed they did not give consent to the voluntary dismissal and Taitz had filed it against their wishes. Carter said Taitz acted improperly because "a client has the right to fire a lawyer at any time, with or without cause."
Carter said requiring Drake and Robinson to file a new case that would end up being consolidated with the one already before the court "would cause significant and needless delay."
The plaintiffs had asked Carter to remove Judge Nakazato from the case, arguing that his ruling against them violated Judge Carter's earlier verbal pledge that the case would be allowed to proceed on its merits "without undue regard to technicalities."
Carter said his earlier comment did not intend to suggest that the plaintiffs' legal counsel would be given "a carte blanche" to disregard rules that attorneys must follow in California courts.
http://www.abpnews.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=53
Drake, former SBC officer, says he's praying for Obama to die (updated)
By Bob Allen
Wednesday, June 03, 2009
A former SBC vice president told Fox News Radio's Alan Colmes he is praying 'imprecatory prayer' on President Obama.
NEW YORK (ABP) -- A former Southern Baptist Convention officer who on June 2 called the death of abortion provider George Tiller an answer to prayer said later in the day he is also praying "imprecatory prayer" against President Obama.
Wiley Drake, pastor of First Southern Baptist Church in Buena Park, Calif., and former running mate of American Independent Party presidential candidate Alan Keyes, said June 2 on Fox News Radio he didn't understand why people were upset with his comments quoted by Associated Baptist Press from a webcast of his daily radio talk show.
"Imprecatory prayer is agreeing with God, and if people don't like that, they need to talk to God," Drake told syndicated talk-show host Alan Colmes. "God said it, I didn't. I was just agreeing with God."
Asked if there are others for whom Drake is praying "imprecatory prayer," Drake hesitated before answering that there are several. "The usurper that is in the White House is one, B. Hussein Obama," he said.
Later in the interview, Colmes returned to Drake's answer to make sure he heard him right.
"Are you praying for his death?" Colmes asked.
"Yes," Drake replied.
"So you're praying for the death of the president of the United States?"
"Yes."
Colmes asked Drake if he was concerned that by saying that he might be placed on a Secret Service or FBI watch list, and if he believed it appropriate to talk or pray that way.
"I think it's appropriate to pray the Word of God," Drake said. "I'm not saying anything. What I am doing is repeating what God is saying, and if that puts me on somebody's list, then I'll just have to be on their list."
"You would like for the president of the United States to die?" Colmes asked once more.
"If he does not turn to God and does not turn his life around, I am asking God to enforce imprecatory prayers that are throughout the Scripture that would cause him death, that's correct."
Most of the half-hour interview on "The Alan Colmes Show" is premium programming available by paid subscription, but a five-minute clip appeared as a "top video" on the Fox News Radio website.
Drake said he didn't pray for Tiller to be murdered -- only that God would take his life by some method -- but that he "absolutely" believed that God wanted the doctor dead.
"I believe the whole Bible, Alan," he explained. "I don't just preach part of it. I don't just preach the soft, fuzzy, warm stuff where we're supposed to be nice to everybody. I preach the whole Bible."
Part of the Bible, Drake claimed, is imprecatory prayer -- words of judgment in the Psalms prayed back to God -- a practice he said the church has lost.
Drake fielded calls from a few listeners, including one identifying himself as a lifelong Southern Baptist who said he was saddened to hear a minister would pray for someone to die.
"This whole concept that we're always to pray little, nice, soft, fluffy, prayers -- that we're not to pray imprecatory prayer -- has been something that just, in all honesty, that Southern Baptists have lost, and we need to regain imprecatory prayer," Drake said. "It is in the Bible, and we are proud to say as Southern Baptists that we believe the Book. You've got to believe the whole Book, brother, or you don't believe any of it."
Asked if he thinks there might be other people praying imprecatory prayers for him that might be successful, Drake said, "Well, that's certainly possible, but that's in God's hands, not in mine."
Asked if he claimed to know God's will, Drake replied: "In some cases I do. Not in all cases. I know this, that if I do die right now, I'll go to heaven when I die because I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. That's why I'll go to heaven and not to hell. And the reason George Tiller went to hell when he died was not because he killed babies, as terrible as that was. If he went to hell, and I think he did -- that's God's judgment and not mine -- but if he did go to hell it's because he did not accept Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior."
Drake said he did not believe Tiller's accused killer is a pro-life Christian.
"I'm of the opinion -- and now everybody's going to say 'There goes Wiley down the conspiracy-theory road,' I'm of the opinion that somebody in the Obama camp had this guy killed."
"Who benefits the most from this man killing a doctor?" Drake asked. "We certainly don't. Pro-life people certainly don't. It hurts us. It damages us, but Obama will indeed advance it. This will be one of those crises to take advantage of, and he's already done that."
Drake said he had no evidence and admitted his opinion for now is "pure speculation."
"Everybody said [Lee Harvey] Oswald was a lone gunman, et cetera, et cetera, too," he said. "But I think we're going to find there was somebody else involved."
Drake said Tiller's murder would be a setback for pro-life Christians seeking to end abortion by legal and proper means. He said he also expects to see answers to other imprecatory prayers in the days ahead.
"God says very clearly in his Word that we are to continue to pray and he will answer our prayers," Drake said.
Sing Oldham, vice president for convention relations with the SBC Executive Committee, was unavailable for comment until late on May 4.
He said that while Drake served one year as second vice president of the SBC, he is not now nor has ever been a spokesman for the convention.
"Mr. Drake does not represent Southern Baptist actions, resolutions, or positions in his interpretation and application of 'imprecatory prayers,'" Oldham said. "Any comments made by Wiley Drake on this subject represent his personal views, not those of the Convention."
Oldham said most Baptists view the imprecatory prayers found in the Psalms as private, heartfelt conversations between oppressed people and God, and reflect confidence that God will eventually vindicate the innocent. He said they generally close with a conscious decision not to bear malice and leave final judgment up to God.
"I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of Southern Baptists reject any call to pray imprecatory prayers of death over any individual," he said.
Spookdaddy
Cuckoo
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What I find interesting about this particular type of obsession is the fact that it very often hinges on the presence of a self-defeating proof. That is, a piece of evidence which points to a devious act while at the same time indicating that the perpetrators of said devious act aren’t actually very good at the devious bit.
I mean, imagine. A secret cabal of liberals - who you would think, listening to a certain section of their opposition, want abortion to be compulsory for anyone whose surname contains more than three consonants and the entire population of Minnesota to be forcibly converted to homosexuality - lie, murder and manipulate their candidate into power only for one of them, several months later, whilst gently stroking the bleached dome of Joe the Plumber’s skull, to slap his forehead with his taloned hands and exclaim, 'SHIT! You know what we only went and forgot...'
I mean, imagine. A secret cabal of liberals - who you would think, listening to a certain section of their opposition, want abortion to be compulsory for anyone whose surname contains more than three consonants and the entire population of Minnesota to be forcibly converted to homosexuality - lie, murder and manipulate their candidate into power only for one of them, several months later, whilst gently stroking the bleached dome of Joe the Plumber’s skull, to slap his forehead with his taloned hands and exclaim, 'SHIT! You know what we only went and forgot...'
Ulalume
tart of darkness
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This subject is pretty distressing to me, because I'm seeing the far right exploiting people with paranoid tendencies, a lack of knowledge, or who are vunerable to fear and uncertainty. Granted, I'm a liberal living among conservatives, but I try to be reasonable when looking at this subject.
There's so much ugliness unfolding in front of us, and there's hardly even a bit of truth to most of the accusations.
We're worried it may lead to violence.
As it is, some family relationships are being ruptured thanks to this fear-mongering.
There's so much ugliness unfolding in front of us, and there's hardly even a bit of truth to most of the accusations.
We're worried it may lead to violence.
As it is, some family relationships are being ruptured thanks to this fear-mongering.
tastyintestines
Justified & Ancient
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Yeah Like the left,etc didn't spew any hate or lies about the last president. :lol:
Ulalume
tart of darkness
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There was rarely, if ever, any implicit or explicit talk of violence towards the government from the left, and certainly not from the liberals. No one said the "I" word. Now we're hearing it all the time from the right.
The whole "bring guns near the president" thing is not funny. The second amendment is not even the issue being debated, here.
A lot of us thought Bush didn't win legitimately in 2000, but we lived with it. No one would have thought of inciting this sort of stuff. It should be unacceptable for both parties,
The whole "bring guns near the president" thing is not funny. The second amendment is not even the issue being debated, here.
A lot of us thought Bush didn't win legitimately in 2000, but we lived with it. No one would have thought of inciting this sort of stuff. It should be unacceptable for both parties,
tastyintestines
Justified & Ancient
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Funny how the media tried to make that a "he wants to shoot him because he's black issue" until they figured out it was a African American. lol Anyways, he had every right to carry a gun on the street. He would not have been let anywhere near the prez.
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The Birthers take some stopping...
Saturday, September 5, 2009
Obama’s Kenyan birth certificate alleged in O.C. lawsuit
Questions surround the authenticity of the document.
By MARTIN WISCKOL
The Orange County Register
A document purported to be a copy of President Barack Obama’s Kenyan birth certificate was filed with the federal court in Santa Ana on Friday by Orly Taitz, the Mission Viejo attorney suing to have Obama removed from office. She alleges that he wasn’t born in the United States.
However, the authenticity of the document is far from certain. Hawaii’s chief public health officer has said he’s examined pertinent documents and confirmed Obama’s birth there. The Annenberg Public Policy Institute also investigated Obama’s U.S. birth documents and determined them to be authentic and valid.
Additionally, another court filing by Taitz, which she claimed was documentation of Obama’s birth registration, has been called a forgery by experts. Taitz’s case has been plagued by incomplete paperwork, and the earlier birth registration document was thrown out by a judge on technical grounds.
A hearing is scheduled for Tuesday to address the status of that earlier document as well as Taitz’s motion to have judge a removed from the case and to have two of her clients removed from the case. The status of latest birth document may also be addressed.
According to Taitz’s Friday filing, a U.S. citizen named Lucas Daniel Smith, a 29-year-old Iowan, went to Coast General Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya on Feb. 19 and paid “a cash consideration to a Kenyan military officer on duty to look the other way, while I obtained the copy of the birth certificate of Barack Hussein Obama.”
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/obam ... href-taitz
Saturday, September 5, 2009
Obama’s Kenyan birth certificate alleged in O.C. lawsuit
Questions surround the authenticity of the document.
By MARTIN WISCKOL
The Orange County Register
A document purported to be a copy of President Barack Obama’s Kenyan birth certificate was filed with the federal court in Santa Ana on Friday by Orly Taitz, the Mission Viejo attorney suing to have Obama removed from office. She alleges that he wasn’t born in the United States.
However, the authenticity of the document is far from certain. Hawaii’s chief public health officer has said he’s examined pertinent documents and confirmed Obama’s birth there. The Annenberg Public Policy Institute also investigated Obama’s U.S. birth documents and determined them to be authentic and valid.
Additionally, another court filing by Taitz, which she claimed was documentation of Obama’s birth registration, has been called a forgery by experts. Taitz’s case has been plagued by incomplete paperwork, and the earlier birth registration document was thrown out by a judge on technical grounds.
A hearing is scheduled for Tuesday to address the status of that earlier document as well as Taitz’s motion to have judge a removed from the case and to have two of her clients removed from the case. The status of latest birth document may also be addressed.
According to Taitz’s Friday filing, a U.S. citizen named Lucas Daniel Smith, a 29-year-old Iowan, went to Coast General Hospital in Mombasa, Kenya on Feb. 19 and paid “a cash consideration to a Kenyan military officer on duty to look the other way, while I obtained the copy of the birth certificate of Barack Hussein Obama.”
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/obam ... href-taitz
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That's the one with the American style, month/day/year dates.rynner2 said:
Snopes deals with that one, too:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/kenyacert.asp
Remember the first rule of Racism: You do not talk about Racism.
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rynner2 said:
Because they know (in a Jungian sense, of course) that they are talking about themselves.
They accuse the Prez of being a Nazi because they'd love to be out-right Nazis.
They claim that healthcare reform will lead to the slaughter of the disabled (of any age) and of the elderly, which is what they'd like -- no more social, moral, or ethical responsibilities.
They are presenting themselves to us, and they are frightening, but their attitudes are not new. They've been the same for decades. The media gives them too much attention, and makes them seem larger than they are.
Which doesn't mean that they don't bear watching. Too many of them are armed, and they should be watched carefully.
As for the Republican Party: it's lost. Those who were once the moderate conservatives are now Democrats. Which leads to the question of where are the liberals? And isn't the middle class ever going to say that it's had enough of all of the above?
tastyintestines
Justified & Ancient
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A small number of insults should not be an example of what a entire group consists of, on either side.
Ulalume
tart of darkness
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- Not Texas
There is a new informericial running in seven American states (including my own) called "Where was Obama born?" This is the highlight reel from TPM - the real infomercial is 28 minutes long.
Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_jZdkCFAUw
Enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_jZdkCFAUw
sherbetbizarre
Special Branch
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$30 for them to send a fax? Nice!