Whitley Strieber

[TVgeek]

This is interesting... I was just reading Whitley Strieber's latest journal
about how yesterday was the 20th anniversary of his Communion
abduction.

Whitley states quite clearly that his visitors are very delicate physically, but stresses that they are very dangerous and capable of being devious and quite mean in their actions.

Very interesting...

http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/

FWIW
TVgeek

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Abductions

When Whitley Strieber first published COMMUNION he solicited correspondence from those of his readers who'd had experiences similar to his own.

I don't know how many messages Strieber expected, a few dozen perhaps, but he received EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND replies.

Morever, THIRTY THOUSAND of those communications were reports of mutiple-witness cases, where two or more individuals had been "abducted" at the same time.

These were of course only those experiencers who had contacted Strieber. And the "abduction" experience has been been reported many times throughout recorded history. Based on Strieber's statistics above, the total number of unrecorded "abductions" throughout human history must run into the many, many millions and perhaps billions.

Now I don't know what all of this means, other than that we sure as hell seem to be dealing with a GENUINE PHENOMENON here, not some urban legend made up by six drunks in a Kansas City saloon.

So do I believe that terrestrial humans are being abducted by aliens from Strontium-Six? Probably not. But it strikes me that in the sheer numbers of this age-old enigma there lies SOMETHING which may hit really close to the secret heart of Fortean-Paranormal reality.

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

Now tell me all you know about Strontium-Six

Now I don't know what all of this means, other than that we sure as hell seem to be dealing with a GENUINE PHENOMENON here, not some urban legend made up by six drunks in a Kansas City saloon.

So do I believe that terrestrial humans are being abducted by aliens from Strontium-Six? Probably not. But it strikes me that in the sheer numbers of this age-old enigma there lies SOMETHING which may hit really close to the secret heart of Fortean-Paranormal reality.

I totally agree and I think papers like this show that academia are waking up and smelling the coffee and there is interesting work being done in this area (see also Clancy's work too) and it is well worth having a dig around to see what can be unearthed (as uair01 has been doing).

See also this guy's work:

www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17491

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Re: Now tell me all you know about Strontium-Six

"I think papers like this show that academia are waking up and smelling the coffee...."

Emps, the fact that it is now possible to write scientific papers concerning UFO experiencers without resorting to the once-standard "drunks, crazies and liars" explanation is but one more example of the profound sea-change which seems to have been taking place in Science since the year 2000. Among others, that it is once again quite respectable to speak favorably about Atlantis, to claim that ice chunks fall from sources other than airliner lavatories, to view earth lights as something other than reflected automobile headlamps and to conceptualize "life after death" as a problem for quantum physics.

P. S. Doubtless, though, this sea-change leaves the old-line Debunk- Everything Skeptics turned pea-green and leaning over the ship's rails as they visualize the ship hurtling relentlessly into the storm-churned waters of a new Dark Age of scientific ignorance.

Pity. Sniff.

 

[barfing_pumpkin]

I don't know how many messages Strieber expected, a few dozen perhaps, but he received EIGHT HUNDRED THOUSAND replies.

Morever, THIRTY THOUSAND of those communications were reports of mutiple-witness cases, where two or more individuals had been "abducted" at the same time.

Eight Hundred thousand replies from people who CLAIMED to be abducted - and if we discount the delusional, the attention-seekers, the wind-up merchants, the insane, those who might have had a particularly vivid nightmare at some point in their lives, old hag experiences etc., I reckon that figure will be a lot less impressive. Bear in mind that Streiber himself was not exactly an unbiased correspondent, and was likely to give more credence to a lot of these letters than they deserved.

Thirty thousand multiple witness cases? From whom, exactly? The witnessers - or the (supposedly) witnessed?

 

[Dessie32]

Streiber published the pick of the bunch in a book called the Communion Letters. If I remember correctly, a lot of the letter writers claimed that their memories of alien abduction were somehow 'triggered' by the sight of the grey pictured on the cover of Communion.

The book featured some very odd stories. One correspondent claimed that a bunch of aliens visited the art shop she worked in and bought some pencils. Another claimed that he was in a lift at a department store when suddenly his fellow occupants were 'switched off'. The lift halted, and the doors opened to reveal a view of a vast futuristic complex. And then there was the woman who visited a 24-hour garage which was really a spaceship...

It's an interesting book, although it reads more like a collection of visionary experiences rather than encounters with flesh-and-blood alien explorers.

Waffle in other words?

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

Waffle in other words?

Thats a tad harsh

To me it sounds like tales of high strangeness just with aliens in.

I have to say I'm intrigued - I might grab a seocnd hand copy (it souns worth a fiver). There are plenty of different versions on Amazon:

www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/00610 ... ntmagaz-21
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0061053 ... enantmc-20
www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/00610 ... ntmagaz-21
www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/06710 ... ntmagaz-21

 

[IamSundog]

Interesting reference, graylien!

Eight Hundred thousand replies from people who CLAIMED to be abducted - and if we discount the delusional, the attention-seekers, the wind-up merchants, the insane, those who might have had a particularly vivid nightmare at some point in their lives, old hag experiences etc., I reckon that figure will be a lot less impressive.

Waffle in other words?

I need to ask - - what is it with this dismissive attitude towards UFOs and abductions, especially here on a Fortean discussion board? I’m intrigued by the level of rancor that comes out around these particular topics. It doesn't seem to happen in discussions of ghosts, shadow men, glitches in the matrix, time shifts, cryptoids, etc.

It’s kind of a cheap shot to just label these people delusional. Phil Klass would be proud. I say this as someone who's had a few experiences myself that consensual reality labels “paranormal”, and who therefore thinks that these subjects deserve a bit of intellectual humility.

It may be true that abductees are delusional or lying, but presupposing that is simply prejudice. And then there is the fact that a few professionals with respectable credentials who bother to actually work with abductees have had the courage to publicly conclude, at some risk to their reputation, that there is something behind this that is not just psychopathology, at least not as we understand it. They may be wrong, of course, but one has to at least note that some very smart and educated people have found something of merit here. The same cannot be said for nearly any other phenomena that get discussed in these boards....except possibly UFOs themselves.

I call that interesting. So, what is it that gets some of you so p****d off?

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

So, what is it that gets some of you so p****d off?

Thats interesting in itself.

I would say that there are other areas of Forteana where things get emotive though:

www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18326

The common factor, which hooks in nicely with the thread, seems to be belief (from both sides - and Forteanism is a broad church which includes both the Skeptic and Believer so its not a suprise).

One one had something very odd is going on and if it can be dismissed out of hand then you can sidestep actually getting involved in an area that is awfully complex.

Meanwhile the Believer has a lot invested in their worldview (so does the Skeptic of course) and attempts to explain (as opposed to explain away) are just as easily dismissed.

Meanwhile what is actually going on doesn't receive the attention it deserves. Which is why I think investigations like this are vital - I think Susan Clancy summed it up nicely when she said people's experiences should be treated seriously if not necessarily literally.

 

[TVgeek]

[quote="Mighty_Emperor]
To me it sounds like tales of high strangeness just with aliens in.

I have to say I'm intrigued - I might grab a seocnd hand copy (it souns worth a fiver). [/quote]

I found a copy in the local library -- in large print even!

The stories are acknowledged by the writers as being surreal...
and they don't fail in that respect! I know several of the letters have
been discussed in other threads, but the one about the people who
seemed to move through the treetops really haunts me
for some reason.

http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/?id=67
Scroll down until you see "Visitors in the Trees".

As far as people getting angry, and such -- that is very
common on this MB. If someones worldview gets shaken in a
profound way, an angry dismissal of evidence seems to be
a survival reaction. I really admire the posters who admit to it!

FWIW

TVgeek

 

[GNC]

The "Visitors in the Trees" story is a good one, and if accurate almost impossible to explain eationally without resorting to mass hallucination or something similar, like so many of these stories. It's weird how some of the stranger tales can be more "believable".

 

[OldTimeRadio]

"Eight Hundred thousand replies from people who CLAIMED to be abducted - and if we discount the delusional, the attention-seekers, the wind-up merchants, the insane, those who might have had a particularly vivid nightmare at some point in their lives, old hag experiences etc., I reckon that figure will be a lot less impressive."

You may well be right - but since when DO we "discount" the experiences of the delusional, the insane [purely a legal term, by the way], nightmare and old hag exeriencers from what is most probably a psychological/social phenomenon going in?

In short, I'm still highly impressed with the sheer volume of the replies Strieber received - and would be even if every last one of those correspondents had been disgnosed with paranoid schiz.

P. S. What is a "wind-up merchant"?

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

P. S. What is a "wind-up merchant"?

A "wind up" would be akin to a joke or jape intended to yank someone's chain. In this context it just means that a small proporton will be replying to such a request with bogus reports.

In that regard I find this interesting:

It's weird how some of the stranger tales can be more "believable".

As always the actual fake ones could rarely approach the utter strangeness of what actually happens to people - often a good sign that it isn't just making up based on what they've read and seen (or else they should really take up writing fiction for a living I suppose ).

 

[barfing_pumpkin]

I need to ask - - what is it with this dismissive attitude towards UFOs and abductions, especially here on a Fortean discussion board? I’m intrigued by the level of rancor that comes out around these particular topics. It doesn't seem to happen in discussions of ghosts, shadow men, glitches in the matrix, time shifts, cryptoids, etc.

It’s kind of a cheap shot to just label these people delusional. Phil Klass would be proud. I say this as someone who's had a few experiences myself that consensual reality labels “paranormal”, and who therefore thinks that these subjects deserve a bit of intellectual humility.

You may well be right - but since when DO we "discount" the experiences of the delusional, the insane [purely a legal term, by the way], nightmare and old hag exeriencers from what is most probably a psychological/social phenomenon going in?

I wouldn't say my response was dismissive - I accept that for a certain number of what-we-would-call normal people, there is something very strange going on with regard to the abduction phenomenon. However, I personally submit to the idea that this same phenomenon is not common (despite the 'surveys' carried out by Streiber, Hopkins et al - I've seen the Hopkins one, and the questions are more loaded than a Bren gun), and that it is largely - if not entirely - subjective.

As far as I'm concerned, there are too many similarities between the alien abduction phenomenon and DMT induced hallucinations for me to believe that the meat-and-bones of the phenomenon is anything other than entirely mental. What might cause these episodes, however, remains a moot point. Hopefully, Michael Persinger's work (if allowed to continue) might shed some light on this.

Of course, it could be argued (as it has in the case of certain DMT hallucinations) that the episode itself is a form of communication with 'other' intelligences. As for that, I say: well, maybe. Never taken DMT meself, and have no plans to do so. The only reason I prefer the DMT hypothesis over the ETH in regard to abductions is that the DMT hypothesis has some evidence behind it, while the ETH...does not.

As for me 'discounting' of the 'evidence' supplied by the deluded, insane, etc.: In that people with such problems very often have difficulty in discerning a reasonably objective occurence from something that has resulted from a mental disturbance, I feel it safe to assume that such testimonials should be regarded as suspect. The courts assume the same, as do the police, and that's a good enough touchstone for me.

 

[GNC]

In that regard I find this interesting:

It's weird how some of the stranger tales can be more "believable".

As always the actual fake ones could rarely approach the utter strangeness of what actually happens to people - often a good sign that it isn't just making up based on what they've read and seen (or else they should really take up writing fiction for a living I suppose ).

It's a bit like hearing people's dreams. You'd rarely say, "I don't believe that" after being told about them. "True life" weird tales have a similar "I couldn't make this up if I tried" feeling about them.

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

In that regard I find this interesting:

It's weird how some of the stranger tales can be more "believable".

As always the actual fake ones could rarely approach the utter strangeness of what actually happens to people - often a good sign that it isn't just making up based on what they've read and seen (or else they should really take up writing fiction for a living I suppose ).

It's a bit like hearing people's dreams. You'd rarely say, "I don't believe that" after being told about them. "True life" weird tales have a similar "I couldn't make this up if I tried" feeling about them.

Also if you make something up you either stick to a well understood script or go completely off the deep end ("And thern a camel was licking my elbow").

That doesn't suggest one could spot a good fake acocunt but really... why bother? Theres the old "to show people's gullibility" but just because you are prepared to listen to someone's story doesn't mean you are necessarily gullible.

[edit: And technically lies, lying and why liars lie is also an interesting topic in itself ]

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Liars

"And technically lies, lying and why liars lie is also an interesting topic in itself "

Emps, over the years I've known a great many "psychopathic liars." Not bad people, usually, and certainly not "psychopathic" in the "dangerous" sense, merely people with really severe ego problems.

And they've LIKED me, because I've been willing to LISTEN to their long-winded sagas of personal greatness, without noting their contradictions.

Thus I'd hear things like "I debuted with the Detroit Symphony when I was nine"...."The Mayor of New York City called me immediately after the WTC towers went down and begged me to come help"...."President Lyndon Baines Johnson telephoned me the day before he died and said 'Talk me into living'"...."I have the highest security clearance known in the CIA"...."When the Secret Service can't handle a situation, they call me"...."The UN's trying to hire me to run its new Bird Flu Lab." Etc. Etc.
You get the idea.

But here's the point - ABSOLUTELY NONE of these fantasies have ever involved the Paranormal, let alone the UFOlogical.

As crazy-house-mirrored as their stories might be, they all take place in the REAL world of espionage, international politics, disasters, medical science and even symphonic orchestras.

Such liars DON'T claim to have had experiences in the "UNREAL" world.

They're looking for respect and even adulation, NOT ridicule.

And they're terrified of being thought of as "crazy."

 

[OldTimeRadio]

"As for me 'discounting' of the 'evidence' supplied by the deluded, insane, etc.: In that people with such problems very often have difficulty in discerning a reasonably objective occurence from something that has resulted from a mental disturbance, I feel it safe to assume that such testimonials should be regarded as suspect. The courts assume the same, as do the police, and that's a good enough touchstone for me.

"

The point that I was originally attempting to make is that if 800,000 individuals report experiencing ANYTHING that beomes a PHENOMENON.

And previous SKEPTICAL overviews of the "abduction" problem have estimated that very few of the experiencers suffer from major psychiatric disorders. So even if we discount for possible psychotics in Strieber's numbers, we are still left with well over 750,000 reports.

You also seem to be suggesting that psychotics are automatically excluded from testifying and from offering evidence in courts of law. If so, you are operating from a psychology of 1856 rather than 2006. (I can introduce you to a very good, practicing attorney who is himself psychotic. Being psychotic's a little like being an alcoholic, in the sense that being an alcoholic doesn't neccessarily mean that you're rolling around drunk in the gutter.)

But, again, none of the above proves that abductees are actually being lifted up into spaceships at night.

 

[barfing_pumpkin]

The point that I was originally attempting to make is that if 800,000 individuals report experiencing ANYTHING that beomes a PHENOMENON.

Doesn't mean that it's really happening, though. After all, consider the sheer amount of people who claim to be Jesus. More 'second comings' here than a nation at orgy. Besides which, Hopkin's poll (called the 'Roper poll', if I'm not mistaken) was filled with fairly obvious leading questions, where even a simple episode of forgetting-where-you-were-at-a-certain-time (as happens to us all) could be construed as a full blown probe-up-the-arse alien abduction.

You also seem to be suggesting that psychotics are automatically excluded from testifying and from offering evidence in courts of law.

No. I said the the law & courts (in the UK, at least) treat such testimonies as suspect - I did not say that they are automatically excluded from the process. The simple fact of certain people suffering from a mental disturbance automatically renders their evidence as suspicious - and in a realm such as 'alien abduction', where - to paraphrase Carl Sagan - 'extraordinary evidence' is required to prove that the phenomenon is both objectively real and commonplace, then the statements supplied by the mentally disturbed (not matter how real the experience may seem to them) is not good enough.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

I suspect that in the large majority of cases where testimony is offered by a person who is psychotic (in the same sense "alcoholic" is used in my previous communication) the fact that the witness IS psychotic never enters into play and in fact the court is likely to be entirely unaware of the witnesses' condition. And if the attorney for one side or the other brought up that fact it would be ruled irrelevant, and the attorney threatened with contempt if he continued to press the issue.

Psychosis is no longer neccessarily the "leper colony" condition it once was.

 

[barfing_pumpkin]

Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:15 am Post subject:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I suspect that in the large majority of cases where testimony is offered by a person who is psychotic (in the same sense "alcoholic" is used in my previous communication) the fact that the witness IS psychotic never enters into play and in fact the court is likely to be entirely unaware of the witnesses' condition. And if the attorney for one side or the other brought up that fact it would be ruled irrelevant, and the attorney threatened with contempt if he continued to press the issue.

Well, maybe that's how it is the the US, but somehow I can't see it. After all, if someone was convicted on the evidence supplied by a person with a proven mental disturbance, wouldn't that be an unsafe conviction? Doesn't 'witness credibilty' come in to play here? Okay, so maybe someone could conceivably be convicted on such evidence - but I expect it wouldn't be long before the appeal court (or whatever the US equivalent is) is brought into play.

But this is just a digression. If you're happy that an alien abduction account made by someone with a mental disturbance is acceptable, then that's up to you.

But if you want to convince a sceptic (note the 'c', not the 'k') about the 'reality' of the phenomenon, you're going to have to come up with something a lot better.

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

Before this spins way off topic its probably worth pointing out that very few people reporting abductions are actually psychotic. Susan lancy spent 3 years interviewing abductees and only spoke to one person who was mentally disturbed.

The vast majority are people who just believe in unusual things - like the vast majority of people out there.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

"If you're happy that an alien abduction account made by someone with a mental disturbance is acceptable, then that's up to you."

What I'm saying is that ALL testimony should go into the hopper.

And:

"But if you want to convince a sceptic (note the 'c', not the 'k') about the 'reality' of the phenomenon, you're going to have to come up with something a lot better."

I never said that alien abductions are real! I merely said that 800,000 reports of ANYTHING is a PHENOMENON, by definition.

By the way, you have now gone from excluding "psychotic" testimony to banning witnesses with "mental disturbances." A high percentage of Forteans (very much including myself) seem to have "mental disturbances," mostly neurotic conditions such as Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD), Aspergers Syndrome/Disease and Clinical Depression. So if Fortean testimony is to be defenestrated, too, how much do we have left?

 

[barfing_pumpkin]

A high percentage of Forteans (very much including myself) seem to have "mental disturbances," mostly neurotic conditions such as Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD), Aspergers Syndrome/Disease and Clinical Depression.

Um...what percentage exactly? How did you find out?

Please note that in my original post I did not say that ALL suspicious 'witness' accounts are liable to come from mentally disturbed/psychotic/whatever people. It was part of an aggregate:

and if we discount the delusional, the attention-seekers, the wind-up merchants, the insane, those who might have had a particularly vivid nightmare at some point in their lives, old hag experiences etc.,

Natch.

Before this spins way off topic its probably worth pointing out that very few people reporting abductions are actually psychotic. Susan lancy spent 3 years interviewing abductees and only spoke to one person who was mentally disturbed.

Although you'd have to admit that it depends on the predisposition of the examining psychiatrist. Psychiatric states, as any qualified psychologist will say, can be pretty damn hard to pin down, and it's just as likely that a psychiatrist with a hard skeptical attitude might come to a different conclusion. Besides, it's not the amount of time that Ms. Lancy spent interviewing the abuductees, but the number. For all we know, she could have only been interviewing a handful - a number to small to be taken as indicative of the phenomenon as a whole.

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

Before this spins way off topic its probably worth pointing out that very few people reporting abductions are actually psychotic. Susan lancy spent 3 years interviewing abductees and only spoke to one person who was mentally disturbed.

Although you'd have to admit that it depends on the predisposition of the examining psychiatrist. Psychiatric states, as any qualified psychologist will say, can be pretty damn hard to pin down, and it's just as likely that a psychiatrist with a hard skeptical attitude might come to a different conclusion. Besides, it's not the amount of time that Ms. Lancy spent interviewing the abuductees, but the number. For all we know, she could have only been interviewing a handful - a number to small to be taken as indicative of the phenomenon as a whole.

Sorry - typo. That should be Clancy. I think she managed to interview 150 - her main problem was that once word got around that she was not taking a soft line in her questioning with abductees a lot of potential interviewees melted away. You should read the book if you haven't already.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

"Um...what percentage exactly? How did you find out?"

I have no way of giving you an exact percentage. But the "how" is very easy - we've discussed these things quite frequently on [email protected]. And whenever I've mentioned my Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD), Aspergers and Clinical Depression I've received many offline communications from both Forteana and from here on FTMB from other members of the "club." Thus the percentage is QUITE high.

I lead the main OCD and Depression support group for a large metropolitan area which draws its members from sections of three states. Therefore I can assure you from personal knowledge and experience that having such a neurological "mental disturbance" does not disqualify one from being a functioning surgeon, dentist, registered nurse, cop, bus driver, social worker, public or parochial school teacher, military officer or indeed COURTROOM JUDGE. (Many individuals enter into the healing professions, including social work, BECAUSE of their neurotic "mental disturbances.")

Therefore I would submit that an individual who is both legally and pragmatically permitted to operate on a human heart, "mental disturbances" or not, or to carry high-powered weapons in the service of his or her community or country, "mental disturbances" or not, is almost certainly going to be permitted to testify in court, "mental disturbances" or not. In fact, most police officers are required to do EXACTLY that on a fairly regular basis.

And I see no reason to automatically toss out their UFO testimonies either.

 

[barfing_pumpkin]

I think she managed to interview 150

Not really a figure large enough to extrapolate to society as a whole, then.

"Um...what percentage exactly? How did you find out?"

I have no way of giving you an exact percentage. But the "how" is very easy - we've discussed these things quite frequently on [email protected] ... I've received many offline communications from both Forteana and from here on FTMB from other members of the "club." Thus the percentage is QUITE high.

The FTMB has 7693 registered users at the time of writing. How many registered FTMB individuals responded to you?

...lead the main OCD and Depression support group for a large metropolitan area which draws its members from sections of three states. Therefore I can assure you from personal knowledge and experience that having such a neurological "mental disturbance" does not disqualify one from being a functioning surgeon, dentist, registered nurse, cop, bus driver, social worker, public or parochial school teacher, military officer or indeed COURTROOM JUDGE. (Many individuals enter into the healing professions, including social work, BECAUSE of their neurotic "mental disturbances.")

Therefore I would submit that an individual who is both legally and pragmatically permitted to operate on a human heart, "mental disturbances" or not, or to carry high-powered weapons in the service of his or her community or country, "mental disturbances" or not, is almost certainly going to be permitted to testify in court, "mental disturbances" or not. In fact, most police officers are required to do EXACTLY that on a fairly regular basis.

And I see no reason to automatically toss out their UFO testimonies either.

Relatively speaking, OCD and depression are mild variations of the blanket term 'mental disturbances'. In lumping them all together, I admit to a mistake made in the effort of being as concise as possible - and I'm not entirely unsympathetic to the conditions you describe, as I myself have suffered depression in the past. However...

In the case, then, of severe mental disturbances - the type that, quite literally, cause the sufferer to lose his or her grasp of a reality that most of us would agree upon as 'normal' (the 'idios cosmos', if you like), then the testimony offered by these people should be treated as suspect, as they have no real base of 'consensual normality' to judge it against. Some examples are as follows:

Paranoid schizophrenia: a common symptom of which is the belief that 'they' (be they government officials, masons, jews, or aliens) have implanted devices in their bodies which allow them to be tracked. Should we therefore take an abduction account from such a person at face value?

Hebephrenic schizophrenia: As far as I understand it, one symptom of this disorder is grandiose religious visions and experiences. Noting the 'spiritual' side of the alien abduction phenomenon - partucularly the common reports of 'apocalyptic imagery' and the sense of being left with some sort of 'mission' - should we consider such a report from a sufferer of this condition as a bona fide alien abduction event, or as something else?

Then there are the other conditions which, though not as severe, must be considered when taking an account of an alien abduction:

Compulsive lying: probably an OCD, but one which, by its very nature, automatically casts doubt on the testimony.

'Joiner' mentality: I don't know if it's an officially recognised condition or not, but some people do have an overwhelming need to belong to a supportive community which also has the glamour of being part of something unique, or 'larger than ourselves'. Often they do 'the tour' - much like that guy from Fight Club - of various help and support groups etc, even though nothing has actually happened to them (I have a suspicion that it might be linked to compulsive lying). In that the alien abduction phenomenon offers a community of apparent trauma sufferers, as well have having a supposed link to the ultimate in 'higher than ourselves' experiences, one can quite easily see how attractive it must seem to these people.

This is, I admit, only a few examples - I expect there are many, many more. The problem is of course, is that Hopkins was taking his figure from a poll, where it would be exceedingly difficult to do a follow-up on all the responders: even a submission from the sufferer of an extreme form of schizophrenia would, in all likelihood, not be apparent in the questionnaire. And as to how many responses were received from compulsive liars and the 'joiner' herd, it is impossible to say. This is why I believe that Hopkins' figure of 800,000 should be taken with a pinch of salt.

The question of whether 800,000 (or, as far as I'm concerned, probably less) makes it a phenomenon or not is a redundant point. The real question is if there is something substantial behind it. And if by substantial, we mean 'real' abductions by 'real' aliens, I personally think not.

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

I think she managed to interview 150

Not really a figure large enough to extrapolate to society as a whole, then.

Well its better than no data at all - which is what those claiming a good proportion of abductees are mentally ill have.

Obviously I'd be interested in seeing more studies done into this but until then...

 

[barfing_pumpkin]

Well its better than no data at all - which is what those claiming a good proportion of abductees are mentally ill have.

Oooh- meow!

Besides, just 'cos there's no real statistical data doesn't mean reasonable suppositions can't be made. If, as oldtimeradio claims, that all 800,000 responses to an alien abduction questionnaire are equally valid, the law of averages (at least) should indicate that some of these people will be mentally ill.

The trouble is, with polls like these, you can't really follow them up. One can fairly state, however, that a number of responsers who have suffered a delusion (by means of a mental disturbance) might instead assume that they have suffered an alien abduction episode due to the suggestive nature of the questionnaire. Just because we don't know what proportion of responders this might be is no reason to thus suppose that the figure of 800,000 is entirely legit.

 

[Mighty_Emperor]

Well its better than no data at all - which is what those claiming a good proportion of abductees are mentally ill have.

Oooh- meow!

Besides, just 'cos there's no real statistical data doesn't mean reasonable suppositions can't be made. If, as oldtimeradio claims, that all 800,000 responses to an alien abduction questionnaire are equally valid, the law of averages (at least) should indicate that some of these people will be mentally ill.[

The trouble is, with polls like these, you can't really follow them up. One can fairly state, however, that a number of responsers who have suffered a delusion (by means of a mental disturbance) might instead assume that they have suffered an alien abduction episode due to the suggestive nature of the questionnaire. Just because we don't know what proportion of responders this might be is no reason to thus suppose that the figure of 800,000 is entirely legit.

I suppose this depends on what we mean by legit.

I'd define it as people who genuinely believed they were abducted by aliens (so everyone minus the liars)

Other people might say it is people who have been actually abducted by aliens.

I'd suggest that there is quite a high likelihood that no one is being snatched up by aliens and having their bits fiddled with. The more interesting question is why they think they have been.