Wonderwaffe, Operation Paperclip, Area 51

jubecrew

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#1
I watched a TV series called " UFO Hunters " located on North American History channel, started recording them because of this one episode on nazi ufos

http://www.ufo-blogger.com/2009/04/ufo- ... -2009.html

I found it really interesting that in the 40's Germany was able to launch a rocket that made it into space before anyone else was able to design a rocket that could do such making them 20 years ahead of the rest of the world.

Though alot of the research they were doing is more then likely been destroyed the world of the nazi scientists lives on because of Operation Paperclip which was put in place to harvest nazi scientists and take them back to America in hopes to have them help the Americans become more advanced in specs of aerospace. These scientists were brought to Area 51 to continue their research :D

By the end of the war they were building a weapon called the Wonderwaffen which was supposed to win the nazi regime the war, obviously never coming to light.

One guy in this show picked up a compass used on a ship in germany that is unlike all compasses used in modern crafts today, he salvaged this piece of hardware from a wreckage yard that area 51 brings its ok to be sold as scrap metal, although this piece should have never made it there :D

It was one of the most interesting things I have ever watched on tv :D the link above carries what I believe is more then likely the full episode. The old guy in the show believes everything he is told which also makes me laugh :D
 

Mythopoeika

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#2
In the first video, the old boy somehow makes a mental leap of the imagination to link that compass with a UFO he saw when he was a boy, because both used 30 degree increments... sorry, had to laugh out loud at that one.
I laughed even louder when they started talking about Vril (a bogus idea touted by Lord Lytton). But, I guess they were putting it all in its historical context...
 

MsPix

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#4
I'm not sure that Vril, is even a bogus idea, it's complete fiction, like the Force in the Star Wars films. But of course some folks don't get this concept of "fiction" and starting with the Theosophists began claim that the book and Vril, were real. If Buwler-Lytton had been unscrupulous, he could have set himself up as the L Ron Hubbard of the Victorian age....

The stuff I've read on the Nazi UFO hypothesis, makes it sound even more improbable than the ETH...
 

Xanatic_

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#5
I know the nazis had some rockets, but at what point did they send anything into space?
 

Mythopoeika

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#7
MsPix said:
I'm not sure that Vril, is even a bogus idea, it's complete fiction, like the Force in the Star Wars films. But of course some folks don't get this concept of "fiction" and starting with the Theosophists began claim that the book and Vril, were real. If Buwler-Lytton had been unscrupulous, he could have set himself up as the L Ron Hubbard of the Victorian age....

The stuff I've read on the Nazi UFO hypothesis, makes it sound even more improbable than the ETH...
Bovril is definitely the only good thing that came out of the Vril nonsense. :)
 

SkepticalX

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#8
I believe the highest altitude reached by a V2 was about 60 miles. Top speeds were actually less than 3500 mph - far below the 17,500 mph required for orbit and a fraction of Earth's 25,000 mph escape velocity. Still, quite an achievement for 1940s technology.

It's easy to portray German rocket scientists as some kind of magicians but German interest in rockets actually goes back into the 1920s with guys like Hermann Oberth (Oberth wrote a book in 1923 suggesting that rockets could take us into interplanetary space). He was static testing rocket engines in 1929. With the help of the Reich, he and his many colleagues were well equipped and well financed.

By comparison, nobody paid much attention to the equally brilliant Robert Goddard here in the States. Goddard actually holds the patent for the multi-stage and liquid-fueled rocket... both granted in 1915! I think we might have been surprised had Goddard received the support and financing of the US government.

Bottom line, while the Germans lead in way in rockets, they made no unusual, dramatic breakthroughs - they simply built incrementally on known ideas and made them work. There's no reason to believe they received and 'unusual' help or that they yielded any 'unusual' results.

S
 

Zilch5

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#9
I think I've posted this here before - but just for the record...

My late father was in the German Luftwaffe in 1943-1944. He wasn't exactly your later day von Richthofen, but a lowly Private (Gefreiter) who didn't show much enthusiasm for the war effort. He was "crew" - which meant no pilot license, just staff. Which got him into a Squadron of no-hopers who were sent around the place collecting damaged aircraft and had to fly them back to the factories to get fixed. Not exactly the most prestigious job Herr Goering was offering. It got a bit dicey on a regular basis, he vowed never to fly in a plane again after the war. But changed his mind later and traveled quite a bit.

Anyway, enough waffling, one day "somewhere in Yugoslavia" they were hanging around an airfield waiting for their next assignment when an officer arrived and told everyone to lie face down on the tarmac. They were told that anyone who would look up would be immediately shot in the back of the head.

Next thing they heard a huge roar ("a sound like I've never heard before or since" according to my father) which lasted for about a minute or so. Then they were told to get back up again and resume whatever they were doing.

He said it sounded nothing like the Me262 jet engine- or anything else for that matter he heard later in life. Make of that what you will.
 

Trevp666

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#10
As a piece of 'entertainment' I enjoyed that from 'the history channel'. There is quite a bit of embellishment and suggestion put forward as possible fact, but entertaining nonetheless. They did quite a good job (in places) of linking known facts together, like the work at peenemunde being moved to underground bases, and the mass production there, and then the supply lines required as a result etc. Bit of a leap when they bothered to show animations of the 'Bell' being tested in an area that turned out to actually be the base of a water tower. ....or maybe that's what they want you to think ;)

Nevertheless, thanks for posting the link jubecrew.
Is that 'UFO hunters' programme a series or a one-off? If it's a series i'd like to see them all properly on my TV.
 

jubecrew

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#11
yup, its a series, they have a bunch that I have been recording and watching, the old man in it takes whatever he is being told and believes it without a doubt while the one young guy tries to debunk everything, it makes for quite a funny relationship and I find myself laughing or thinking he's absolutely off his rocker :D

Mind you I don't think there is anything wrong with anyone who believes stuff at face value and wants it to be real whole heartily, we can all relate to one point in our life with Christmas and Santa hah :D

Glad some of you who watched it enjoyed it like I did

Thanks Zilch for your interesting post as well I really enjoyed the story

As for someone mentioning the force from star wars, I honestly believe there is such a thing, not to the extreme that they may pose, but an invisible force that connects all things :p
 

SkepticalX

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#12
Hmmm, seems unlikely the Germans would have been doing much top-secret testing in questionable, occupied territory like Yugoslavia. Wonder what that could have been. :?

S
 

jubecrew

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#13
you would wonder indeed, it's a shame that most of the people that would know these things are either dead, hiding in silence or in area 51 :p

I was always mystified how they even grabbed an old mystic symbol turned it on its side and called it a swastika.

Indiana Jones with the Germans always going after ancient relics may not have been so far fetched after all :lol:
 

Dr_Baltar

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#14
SkepticalX said:
Hmmm, seems unlikely the Germans would have been doing much top-secret testing in questionable, occupied territory like Yugoslavia. Wonder what that could have been. :?

S
Given the date, it could have been a large flyover of planes linked to Operation Fall Weiss, which was conducted between January and April '43 and involved over 200 Axis aircraft. Why they would be told to remain face down, I have no idea. Still, plenty things the Nazis did didn't make any sense.
 

Xanatic_

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#15
Jubecrew: "Indiana Jones with the Germans always going after ancient relics may not have been so far fetched after all"

There are many books on the nazis and their interest in the occult. I think even today there´s a link on the FT frontpage about Himmel and his interest in alchemy. This is also why you have nazis cropping up in movies like Hellboy.
 

Fluttermoth

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#18
yogabbagabba said:
who's the narrator? sounds so familiar:
Guy called Patrick Allen; did loads of voiceovers for things during the 70's and 80's, including the 'protect and survive' vids about nuclear attack that the UK government did. And the Barrett homes commercials...
 

SkepticalX

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#19
You'd think a Luftwaffe mechanic would have immediately recognized the sound of a fly-over. It makes me wonder if the Nazis had any, shall we say, incinerators in Yugoslavia. The sound of large gas burners could definitely cause a roar.

S
 

Zilch5

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#21
SkepticalX said:
You'd think a Luftwaffe mechanic would have immediately recognized the sound of a fly-over. It makes me wonder if the Nazis had any, shall we say, incinerators in Yugoslavia. The sound of large gas burners could definitely cause a roar.

S
My father definitely described it as something flying over. Other than that, neither him nor me ever had a clue what was going on there. The thought that top secret testing in Yugoslavia sounds somewhat unlikely had occurred to me too. Odd, the whole story but otherwise the old man was not prone to make up stuff. If anything, he kept quiet about the war unless you gave him a few drinks and coaxed the interesting stuff out of him.
 

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#22
Zilch5 said:
My father definitely described it as something flying over.
Is it possible then that he recognised it as the sound of one (or more) aircraft of some description but of a type he'd never heard before?
 

Zilch5

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#23
Possible? Sure. But they were trained in recognising aircraft by shape and sound - so not likely. There was no other way to tell friend from foe in the sky.

The story made no sense to him either ever - I wish I could be more helpful but I've posted everything he told me and that he knew.

The most advanced stuff around at the time were Me262s and V Rockets - he was to see both later and said they sounded nothing like it.

Allied bomber raids were also rather common as by that stage they had far more planes. Nothing here makes much sense except that I have no reason to think he made this stuff up and he never offered an explanation either.
 

Trevp666

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#25
Zilch5 said:
Possible? Sure. But they were trained in recognising aircraft by shape and sound - so not likely. There was no other way to tell friend from foe in the sky.

The story made no sense to him either ever - I wish I could be more helpful but I've posted everything he told me and that he knew.

The most advanced stuff around at the time were Me262s and V Rockets - he was to see both later and said they sounded nothing like it.

Allied bomber raids were also rather common as by that stage they had far more planes. Nothing here makes much sense except that I have no reason to think he made this stuff up and he never offered an explanation either.
Maybe an autogyro or early helicopter - they're both quite noisy and would've been in operation at the time, having been in devolpment since the 1920s (the idea for helicopters had been around longer though), but it's reasonable to assume that they were both still fairly uncommon in a military role.
The nazis were certainly exploring all avenues of aircraft devolpment though.
The Uboats were using a towed gyrocopter for spotting purposes, the FA-330 (see >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fa-330 and there is film on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP6VnbeWXSY) which I expect would've needed to be tested on land, towed by a truck or another aircraft.
The Luftwaffe had also been experimenting with the Focke-Wulf Fw 61 helicopter (Fa-61) since the late 1930s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Fw_61

Maybe Yugoslavia was part of the nazi version of the 'skunk works'?
 

SkepticalX

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#26
With all those drunk, armed Yugoslavs, seems it would be a dangerous place to have top scientists and engineers working on secret projects. Of course, it did have the advantage of not being visited on a daily basis by hundreds of Lancasters and B-17s.

S
 

Zilch5

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#27
I did a bit more googling and yes, there was secret stuff being tested in Yugoslavia by the Luftwaffe! The timing also fits - I guess it was one of those things mentioned in the link below - but I'll never know which one. Maybe a Fritz X or Hs 293 guided missile? That wasn't something you heard commonly then or later.

http://www.historynet.com/luftwaffes-se ... war-ii.htm

On a sour note - the archive documenting the Luftwaffe's activities in Yugoslavia was destroyed in the 1990s Balkan war by a NATO airstrike - oh, the irony...
 

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#28
Zilch5 said:
I did a bit more googling and yes, there was secret stuff being tested in Yugoslavia by the Luftwaffe! The timing also fits - I guess it was one of those things mentioned in the link below - but I'll never know which one. Maybe a Fritz X or Hs 293 guided missile? That wasn't something you heard commonly then or later.

http://www.historynet.com/luftwaffes-se ... war-ii.htm

On a sour note - the archive documenting the Luftwaffe's activities in Yugoslavia was destroyed in the 1990s Balkan war by a NATO airstrike - oh, the irony...
I'm probably being thick, but I don't see any mention of Yugolsavia in that article.
 

Zilch5

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#29
True, but it was mentioned in other links - didn't post them all, some were in German.

But there is mention of the Southern Med - which Yugoslavia is part of. Some also mention it as Croatia.
 

SkepticalX

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#30
That makes sense. Croatians did side with the Nazis during the war. Personally, I feel this was not because we liked the Germans, but because the Serbians sided with the Allies - and far be it from us Croats to pass up a perfectly good opportunity to shoot Serbs.

S
 
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