Seeing Through Closed Eyelids

[Andy X]

Of recurring dream symbols I've only ever worked out one to my satisfaction. A camera that fails to work means "this dream relates to an upcoming trip away". But the rest...no idea. And communion is so suggestive....communication? union? sacrifice? "This dream is spiritual communication" perhaps? (doubtful.. the dream was littered with B list celebrities) *scratches head*.

Don't think I haven't read, digested, and taken something away from your post by my editing the above quote down to the slim fragment above, but funnily enough, the person with whom I had the 'afterlife' conversation quoted upthread (who I hold in the highest possible regard btw) is very keen on pointing out what people's dream motifs symbolise. It's then my turn to become the rationalist and point out that her interpretation of symbols sounds suspiciously New Agey, as in:

I had a dream about flying.

A-HA! That's bad! That's because something in your life is out of control!

No it's not (although it may be the case that something in my life is out of control), it's because flying is ace, and even children dream of it. And I sometimes fly aeroplanes, as you know very well. So it's not that surprising or insightful, is it?

At this point I often quote the 'sometimes a cigar is just a cigar' remark, attributed to Freud ( I think)

So it's acceptable to nail unconscious thoughts to the (possibly questionable) interpretational framework of Dr Freud (which itself became a kind of dogma in the hands of psychoanalyists) and that's perfectly 'scientific', but for me to say that for all I know death may not be the 'end'...is ridiculous.

 

[Andy X]

Of recurring dream symbols I've only ever worked out one to my satisfaction. A camera that fails to work means "this dream relates to an upcoming trip away". But the rest...no idea. And communion is so suggestive....communication? union? sacrifice? "This dream is spiritual communication" perhaps? (doubtful.. the dream was littered with B list celebrities) *scratches head*.

BTW Cameras and cameraphones that never work when something awesome is happening, or stunningly beautiful scenery passing from a train or aircraft is a recurrent theme of my dreams, and featured in the one with the transparent eyelids experience. I know why this is: it's partly work anxiety, as my job often involves cameras, and also that I'm such an obsessive recorder of images that I've often fallen into the trap of 'missing' an event as I've been too busy peering at it through a viewfinder.

 

[Loquaciousness]

What do you mean by 'believers'?

I think the context said it all in this case. A text book definition of course is anyone who believes in the truth or existence of something, in which case everyone is a believer - but that is of course not what I meant in his context.

 

[rynner2]

They don't,as private jones would say, like it up 'em.

Lance-Corporal Jones, if you don't mind!

 

[gattino]

BTW Cameras and cameraphones that never work when something awesome is happening, or stunningly beautiful scenery passing from a train or aircraft is a recurrent theme of my dreams, and featured in the one with the transparent eyelids experience.

It's freaky how many times the "that matches my experience" comment is going back and forth.. I had the same thing a few months ago with Ulalume/bunnymousekit. Which makes you wonder if such correlations between people on an anonymous message board aren't themselves a thing.....

You're quite right that the "this dream symbol means that" lists/beliefs are a nonsense. At any rate I've never found any two online which claim the same interpretation of any given thing...nor any one I could honestly say applied to me in the circumstances at the time. One has to imagine though that a repeated icon or action in a dream is symbolic of *something* for the individual experiencing it.

My interpretation of the non working camera as futre trip dream though is pretty concrete, as its based entirely on observation.

The first time I had such scene in a dream was prior to a trip to Sicily. In the dream it was clear I was in italy somewhere with friends, and in one particular instance I tried taking photos but press and press as I might the camera would not work. Well when I later went to italy - and left a list of predictions with someone based upon this dream - a lot of correlations to the dream occurred. But the most striking by far was that - yes in real life - the camera spontaneously and inexplicably stopped responding. It stayed non functioning until I got home when it came back to life again. It was clear example of a literal dream precog. Ever since when I have dreams in which I'm struggling to take a picture the rest of the scenario turns out to fit elements of a real life coming trip, with seemingly great reliability. They're the only circumstances where I can , in advance, consciously link a dream to a specific coming event.

This is interesting of course...was the fact of the first literal occurence of camera failure the reason its become an embedded dream symbol for foreign trip precogntion?

 

[MercuryCrest]

A bit late here, but I'll chime in to the original topic of this thread.

I've seen through my eyelids a few times. Typically, the lights are off, but what I'm seeing is what I'd normally see if my eyes happened to be open. A couple of times, this has led to OBE's, but it's still rather difficult.

One thing I've tried with limited success is to open my eyes, then shut them and focus on the after image. This doesn't last long, but with some effort, I've been able to call it back and then there's a point where the image "solidifies" and it feels like I'm properly looking through closed eyes.

When I was younger, I awoke several times with my eyes still closed, yet I was looking at my clock. The first time, it really shocked my when I actually did open my eyes (I had assumed that they were closed the whole time. Everything looked the same, including the time on the clock.

I had been experimenting with meditation and OBE's at the time (without much success in the latter), so it was easy enough for me to take it in stride, once I figured out what had happened.

Slightly OT: I recall one day I was taking a nap and I actually saw my dream form from the colors and shapes typically associated with hypnogogic hallucinations. I think that the remarkable thing here is that I maintained awareness until just when the dream started, lost awareness, but then "pulled myself back" and woke up, all while remembering the sequence of events.

 

[gattino]

When I was younger, I awoke several times with my eyes still closed, yet I was looking at my clock.The first time, it really shocked my when I actually did open my eyes (I had assumed that they were closed the whole time. Everything looked the same, including the time on the clock.

That sounds to me pretty identical to the false awakenings I describe and which are fairly common..apparently. You could interpret it a number of ways but the simplest is that you'e simply dreaming the real life and predictable scenario/surroundings you know you'll find when you do wake up...and then you do. OR You could sprinkle a layer of the paranormal on it by going further and interpreting the dream of your waking state as a precognition, immediately before the event being forseen.

 

[Andy X]

I think the context said it all in this case. A text book definition of course is anyone who believes in the truth or existence of something, in which case everyone is a believer - but that is of course not what I meant in his context.

Well, it's true that people with strong convictions about say, the indestructability of the soul, or guardian angels, or the existence of God, or whatever can be every bit as dogmatic and closed-minded as the smuggest, most condescending atheist, if that's what you meant. Both of these types are frequently to be encountered....it's fustrating therefore to be regarded with suspicion by both 'sides' simply for demurring to identify oneself with either due to a lack of evidence.

If someone can prove to me that nothing of us survives physical death, or conversely that an afterlife definitely awaits, I'll be very happy to stop sitting on the fence

 

[Andy X]

One has to imagine though that a repeated icon or action in a dream is symbolic of *something* for the individual experiencing it.

My interpretation of the non working camera as futre trip dream though is pretty concrete, as its based entirely on observation.

The first time I had such scene in a dream was prior to a trip to Sicily. In the dream it was clear I was in italy somewhere with friends, and in one particular instance I tried taking photos but press and press as I might the camera would not work. Well when I later went to italy - and left a list of predictions with someone based upon this dream - a lot of correlations to the dream occurred. But the most striking by far was that - yes in real life - the camera spontaneously and inexplicably stopped responding. It stayed non functioning until I got home when it came back to life again. It was clear example of a literal dream precog.

This is interesting of course...was the fact of the first literal occurence of camera failure the reason its become an embedded dream symbol for foreign trip precogntion?

That's a very striking example. Again, I feel we're in Jung / JW Dunne territory!

 

[Andy X]

A bit late here, but I'll chime in to the original topic of this thread.

I've seen through my eyelids a few times. Typically, the lights are off, but what I'm seeing is what I'd normally see if my eyes happened to be open. A couple of times, this has led to OBE's, but it's still rather difficult.

One thing I've tried with limited success is to open my eyes, then shut them and focus on the after image. This doesn't last long, but with some effort, I've been able to call it back and then there's a point where the image "solidifies" and it feels like I'm properly looking through closed eyes.

Thanks, you've explained this far better than I did! That's a very good description of how it begins...the closed-eye visual comes in with a kind of fade, not a straight cut.

 

[jnelts]

I have "seen" while asleep twice in my life. The first time felt like an 'out of body experience' let me explain. I was a sophomore in college and didn't have a class until 11 o'clock on Tuesdays and Thursdays. So I would set my alarm for 10 a.m. I know it is very common for people to awaken a minute or two before their alarm clock goes off due to cycles and rhythms etc. So it is no surprise that one day I awoke a minute before my alarm clock went off. What WAS unusual, was that it felt nearly impossible to sit up. I wanted to sit up and turn off my alarm so I wouldn't have to listen to the worst noise on Earth, I.e. the sound that awakens you daily.

After I did finally manage to sit up in my bed, I looked around the room. I looked around for several reasons. I looked to see if my roomate was there. I looked to see where my wallet an keys were. I looked to see if all the things were in order to successfully start my day. So I saw details and definites, such as the exact minute on the clock. My roommates empty bed. My book bag. Etc. But.... Now here's where it gets interesting... I looked at my pillow, and my head was still on it! Freaky! I am not making this up. I looked at it for a while, cognizant of everything so I could verify it later in the mirror. Each pimple. How long my whiskers were. Nose hairs. Everything!

Anyway, that was the first time and by far the most unexplainable occurrence.

The second time happened after some experimentation with hallucinogenic drugs. Namely, robitussin. Go ahead. Laugh! I know how ridiculous robo-tripping is. I'm not proud of it. But, anyway.... I was laying in bed; trying to sleep after a night of tussin-balls. (Kinda like tripping-balls but instead being on tussin. Not psilocybin or lsd.) but I swear on my life that I was awake and that my eyes were shut. I even placed my fingers on my eyelids, and put a hand over each eye to be certain that I was seeing through my lids. Now, I know that this second experience might be easy to dismiss because of the fact that I was under the influence of robitussin. But, I know when I am conscious and when I am not. There is not much looseness in my mental capacities to explain this occurrence. I know when I have blacked out of fallen asleep. I am the type of guy that tried hallucinogenic drugs to confirm my grip on reality. Not escape it. I would be the first to admit that something was amiss in my faculties. This particular night, I was definitely tussin balls. But I was definitely still conscious. And I shit you not; I was seeing through my damn eyelids.

I'm just glad that this is actually something. Because, many times I tried to tell people about this experience and they just looked at me as if I was the guy who found an image of Jesus on a potato chip.

Admittedly, I didn't read all these posts. Has anyone found a reason for this phenomenon?

My hypothesis is that the mind extends beyond the brain. And it takes us being groggy or tussin balls to accept that reality isn't the cozy cubicle we thought it was. Or some shit. Anyway. You're not alone, my friend. It happened twice to me.

 

[gattino]

Namely, robitussin. Go ahead. Laugh! I know how ridiculous robo-tripping is. I'm not proud of it. But, anyway.... I was laying in bed; trying to sleep after a night of tussin-balls. (Kinda like tripping-balls but instead being on tussin. Not psilocybin or lsd.

How unlike the home life of our own dear Queen.

 

[gattino]

The more serious answer to your question is that I don't think anyone came up with a "definitive" explanation as I think most contributors described subtly different things suggestive of seeing through eyelids rather than a single phenomenon (I'm going from memory.. I've not re-read it either). But your examples do stand out as very intriguing.

The first one defintiely sounds like my (I imagine most people's) mental image of an out of body experience.. a ghostly you sitting up out of your physical body. Do you recall at all noticing if this "other" you..the one dong the sitting up..itself had a body? What I mean is did you see a separate set of arms etc...in fact did you try touching anything?

The second one, though drug induced, needn't be any different.. some people experiment with mind altering drugs precisely because they believe they free the consciousness or remove limitations on perception etc.

 

[Cochise]

Back in my misspent youth (as opposed to my misspent dotage) one of the things you could do while tripping was watch eyelid movies.

Perhaps you were doing the equivalent but the movie happened to be a day in your life. One of the reasons I stopped tripping is that you can't be sure the reality you come back to is the one you left.

 

[jnelts]

Gattino, during my brief 'out of body experience' the entity which sat up in my bed had no physical form. No body. No head. No neck. No torso. Only vision, somehow. This is why I think the mind may not be limited to the brain.

Meanwhile the physical 'me' was lying, eyes closed, just as someone who is sleeping would lie there. I wish, now, that I would have tried standing or walking. But, then the CIA probably would have turned me into a spy or something worse.

 

[jnelts]

Cochise, what on earth is an eyelid movie? Please enlighten me as I have never heard of such a film. Or, are you saying that your mind projected images upon your eyelids?

Also, what's the intended meaning of "bareback lady has fish?"

 

[Cochise]

Cochise, what on earth is an eyelid movie? Please enlighten me as I have never heard of such a film. Or, are you saying that your mind projected images upon your eyelids?

Also, what's the intended meaning of "bareback lady has fish?"

Eyelid moves - the second. Close your eyes for a few seconds while tripping and the mind starts to fill in the blanks with all sorts of things. I had an entire fairground on the inside of mine on one occasion.

There is no set meaning that I am aware of to 'bareback lady has fish' - it is part of a lyric from King Crimson and is intriguingly meaningless allowing one to spend idle hours working out what, if anything, the composer had in mind. It is slightly related to the above as the song is called 'Cirkus' IIRC .

 

[Cochise]

Eyelid movies - the second. Close you eyes for a few seconds while tripping and your mind starts to fill in the lack of input with all sorts of interesting stuff. I had an entire fairground on the inside of mine once.

'Bareback lady has fish' is a line from the track 'Cirkus' on King Crimson's Lizard album, my favourite of theirs. It's intriguingly meaningless, enabling one to waste idle hours wondering what on earth the composer meant by it.

As its prog rock and the track is subtitled 'including entry of the chameleons' it is highly unlikely that it is actually about a circus.

Note for prog rock enthusiasts - this particular use of circus imagery pre-dates ELP's Brain Salad Surgery by a couple of years.

 

[mr_nic]

In a slightly related manner, I've recently (and occasionally) started experiencing a bright flash of light through my closed eyelids prior to waking up suddenly during the night. It's like someone has just turned on a torch and shone it directly at my closed eyes, only for it to sharply fade away to the top left of my vision as I open my eyes.

I've always experienced hypnagogic imagery (from early childhood onwards) but this is new one on me as it tends to occur in the early morning hours in the darkness.

 

[Ermintruder]

In a slightly related manner, I've recently (and occasionally) started experiencing a bright flash of light through my closed eyelids prior to waking up suddenly during the night

Is your level of sleep less deep than otherwise might be normal for you? Have you perhaps had less exercise during the day? Been consuming more caffine than usual? Received dental treatment recently?

See http://forum.forteantimes.com/index...ynaesthesia-seeing-noises.61883/#post-1630702 regarding a putative opthalmological phenomenon that might be called transthesia....

I've experienced this kind of effect all my life, and had always put it down to being due to an 'overblink'. If asleep (or nearly so) and startled by a sudden noise, people will curl-up instinctively, and tend to reactively-close their already-closed eyes.

This transient additional mechanical pressure upon the front of your eyeballs translates into the optical perception of there being lights and colours, but they're being neurologicaĺly generated, on an intraocular basis, as opposed to being photons falling upon the retina.

 

[mr_nic]

Thank you Ermintrude, I will endeavour to make a note next time it occurs and see if it relates to anything during the day. My caffeine intake is fairly regular but exercise varies week to week...

 

[Ermintruder]

Have you got a fitness monitoring wristband, that can be interrogated by an Apple or Android phone/tablet?

Although the telemetry they record is never exact, it should show patterns of deep /restless sleep movements (at least relatively) as a function of time overnight.

It would be interesting to see if you are slowly becoming wakeful, which is then prompting the visual flashes, or, if that itself is what is waking you.

And although there's almost certainly no reason to expect that you've got any underlying medical condition, if it does continue/worsen, please get a medical checkup.

High blood-pressure can create flashing effects in the eyes, as can certain other conditions, many of which can easily be checked (and not necessarily just by doctors).

 

[mr_nic]

Have you got a fitness monitoring wristband, that can be interrogated by an Apple or Android phone/tablet?

Although the telemetry they record is never exact, it should show patterns of deep /restless sleep movements (at least relatively) as a function of time overnight.

I do use a Fitbit Blaze, although I've always found the sleep data deeply confusing. For instance I went to bed at around 10.40pm last night and awoke at 6.35am this morning. The data captured appears to show something quite different though!

 

[Ermintruder]

For instance I went to bed at around 10.40pm last night and awoke at 6.35am this morning.

Were you conscious of being restless between 10.40pm and 1.26am? Or 5.46am and 6.35am?

Are both your Fitbit and phone agreed as to timezone synchronisation, and primacy? The one hour differential in your wakeup time prompts this question especially (some fitness bands are far too independantly clever for their own good)

Does your phone/tablet accurately register which wrist your fitness band is worn upon, within the user settings? If this is set wrongly, it can result in some really strange recordings of activity.

 

[mr_nic]

Were you conscious of being restless between 10.40pm and 1.26am? Or 5.46am and 6.35am?

No, not really. The odd toss and turn* while getting ready to drift off but that's about it.

Are both your Fitbit and phone agreed as to timezone synchronisation, and primacy? The one hour differential in your wakeup time prompts this question especially (some fitness bands are far too independantly clever for their own good)

Yes, it would seem they are.

Does your phone/tablet accurately register which wrist your fitness band is worn upon, within the user settings? If this is set wrongly, it can result in some really strange recordings of activity.

Again, yes - it's set correctly. I do however sleep with my arm under the pillow and/or tucked under me - resulting in a lack of blood flow/dead arm and hand upon waking!

Thanks for your input here - I'll continue to monitor more closely over the next few weeks for a recurrence of the light phenomena and also what other factors during the day may be affecting both this and the sleep data.

*Not a euphemism

 

[gattino]

Again going off on a similar tangent.. one thing I've often discovered I can do seemingly at will when eyes are closed in the dark at night, and fully conscious, is to conjure up the perception of sun shining through them..by which I mean the awareness of bright light one would have if you simply closed your eyes on a sunny day while looking upward. Only of course in this case there is no actual external light to cause it, its a product entirely of my willful imagination.

 

[Elsupremo]

You're meditating. That circular white light is the light at the end of the tunnel or tomb. Now the next time you do it, try making the light come to you and you will discover that your soul is walking towards the opening. If you see Pan with his flute just ignore him. He was probably doing something with that flute while you were asleep. Now once you reach the opening, you will notice that everything looks silver, including you. Don't be alarmed, you will be naked. You will see a small rundown shack. Go inside. You see a mirror on the wall. Look into it.

 

[SL83]

An odd thing happened to me last night on trying to get off to sleep which I then remembered having occurred a few times before, but have never got around to discussing in the wider world.

We all know it's impossible to recall the exact point at which 'wakefulness' gives way to sleep, but I've noted that in my case, before succumbing to the nothingness before dreaming, I often have very 'trippy' and abstract thoughts about multi-dimensional forms, shapes that are sounds, colours that are multiplying numbers and vice-versa...and deep (but sometimes unrelated to my 'real life') emotions as I drift off. Nothing unusual about all that, I suspect.

What doesn't usually happen though (except on the odd occasions that are the subject of this thread) is that before everything goes a bit psychedelic, as described above, I find I can 'see' through my closed eyelids: that is, I can still see (only if I've conked out before turning out my bedside light) the room around me perfectly well, but as if viewed through a thin membrane. The nearest thing I can liken it to is closing one's eye's in blazing sunlight on a summer's day and still being able to see a vague impression of the sky and the orb of the sun - except that this is a detailed image of the room, not a blurry impressionistic scene; the titles of books on the shelf are perfectly legible, for example. My feeling at the time is that I'm 'seeing through my eyelids', that this is the 'real way to see', and that it's totally normal. If the lamp on the other side of the room has been left on it will appear to be on. And so on.

Presumably this is due to a recent visual memory that gets 'pasted in' as the conscious mind is still struggling for dominance. Whatever the explanation, it's strangely relaxing yet quite thrilling when it happens, and no doubt it is commonly experienced, (though I've never heard anyone else describe it). I can't remember with certainty if it's ever possible to move my eyes or head to take in more of the scene, but my murky old recollections suggest that I'm probably comfortably paralysed at the time.

Has anyone else enjoyed this interesting hypnagogic glitch?

Hello All,

I have experienced "seeing through closed eyelids" many times, but unlike your occasions mine are very scary and I always see or feel another presence in the room with me.

This happened to me last night. It's very scary and I think I freaked my boyfriend out telling him about it.

Here's what happened.....so I am fully awake in the "dream". I can see everything around me in real time, the light in the room is on. I am lying in my bed and all the sudden I am raised up a little off of the bed, floating in the air. Something grabs my arm very tight - I can see the imprints of the fingers in my arm. I start to scream for help...while I am screaming for help - it takes my voice and I am left screaming but nothing is coming out. At this point, I am being held down by something and fighting hard to break free and screaming at the same time. Then I see the bedroom door , that is closed mind you, start shaking like something is trying to get in....then it tries to come though the wall and the wall moves and bends like putty and I can see the impression of its body...at that time the grip on my arm falls like I've been dropped and I am finally able to come out of it and 'wake up"....

I have had many of these experiences and I do not like them at all! I usually can't go back to sleep for a while and I always pray off bad spirits afterwards...

I interpret this as being locked inside like a spiritual realm. I don't have any other explanation for it.

 

[Emmalew7]

Just joined the group so I thought I would add my experience.

It first happened to me around 10 years ago. I got into bed, turned out the light and began to settle down. Closed my eyes and lay there waiting to go to sleep (as you do), then I realised I could still see, only in grey/muted tones but nonetheless I could see through my closed eyes. On that occasion I must have dozed off and completely forgot the following day.

A while later (same house) it happened again, this time I moved my head as though I were looking around the room - eyes still closed - and could see absolutely everything. I even sat up in bed and still could see through completely closed eyelids.

It did happen one further time but since moving from that very disturbed property, it has not happened again.

 

[Elsupremo]

I think that there's a realm that exists between the sleeping state and the waking state. I call it the twilight zone. Let's say that being awake and being asleep are two different and vast rooms right across the hall from one another. They are separated by a very narrow hallway. That hallway however is peopled by magical creatures or monsters . It's a very short step from one room to the other and that's probably why we fall asleep almost instantaneously rather than thinking that you're almost asleep before you actually fall asleep. One night just as I was about to fall asleep, a leprechaun attacked me. It walked onto my pillow and as my head was facing the opposite direction I couldn't see it but felt it's vibration. I quickly turned my head to look but before I could even get a view of the damned thing it knocked me out with one little punch and ran off as my head collapsed into my pillow. No doubt the Druid I had been laughing at earlier that night was responsible. Never make fun of a Druid.