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Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19): Conspiracy Theories & Claims

Min Bannister said:
It doesn't need to be genetically sequenced though, that is why it would be hard to prove one way or another. We have already seen how the virus has mutated in humans. A lab can "naturally engineer" a more harmful coronavirus by passing in through a series of animal hosts, say ferrets (very close to mink..). Trying to detect that would be very difficult. That Wuhan lab could have had flocks of fevered futtrits but there would be no trace by the time the WHO team get there.
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Fevered futtrits! They could have just released them on the world!
 
Fevered futtrits is a great exclamation.

When this whole thing began, I figured it might teach the "alternative medicine" crowd a lesson. Instead I oddly find myself distrustful of vaccines and the W.H.O.
 
bugmum said:
If we told you, we'd have to kill you.
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Ah, but that also applies to all the independent labs that might think about verifying the virus origins. :D

Which yeah... kinda makes the idea that independent labs would actually know anything a bit... questionable.
 
marhawkman said:
I dunno. What does a bio-engineered plague look like? What aspects of a virus would be tells that it was genetically sequenced in a lab?

I mean really, how many artificially created diseases are there to use as comparative samples?
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I don't know but I think the people who do this for a living do, There are technical papers out there describing the knowledge-based reasoning.
 
Lb8535 said:
I don't know but I think the people who do this for a living do, There are technical papers out there describing the knowledge-based reasoning.
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Who is that? Is there anyone who's actually a professional at discerning the difference between man-made diseases and natural ones? There's LOTS of people who study natural diseases... but man-made ones?
 
They are able to discern gene-editing.
 
Xanatic* said:
They are able to discern gene-editing.
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That requires comparison with known samples. IE is this a genetic sequence that has been seen in nature? It's a lot like taking a book and proofreading it to see if it's a real book.

So to declare it artificial would require seeing something that is identifiable as non-existent in nature. It's a lot like forging a signature. If you do it right it's indistinguishable from the real thing.
 
marhawkman said:
That requires comparison with known samples. IE is this a genetic sequence that has been seen in nature? It's a lot like taking a book and proofreading it to see if it's a real book.

So to declare it artificial would require seeing something that is identifiable as non-existent in nature. It's a lot like forging a signature. If you do it right it's indistinguishable from the real thing.
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In theory, yes, Reputable manipulation would probably include something obvious so that you could keep track of it - the equivalent of putting an antibiotic-resistance gene in a bacterium so that you can distinguish it by growth alone. A real crazed genetic manipulation wouldn't include anything so identifiable.

However, if you were trying to make something super-dangerous, you'd probably have to start mixing up different types of virus that don't necessarily co-exist naturally, and that would be easier to spot.
 
bugmum said:
In theory, yes, Reputable manipulation would probably include something obvious so that you could keep track of it - the equivalent of putting an antibiotic-resistance gene in a bacterium so that you can distinguish it by growth alone. A real crazed genetic manipulation wouldn't include anything so identifiable.

However, if you were trying to make something super-dangerous, you'd probably have to start mixing up different types of virus that don't necessarily co-exist naturally, and that would be easier to spot.
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And using CRISPR for gene editing often leaves a characteristic signature in the genome I believe.
 
bugmum said:
In theory, yes, Reputable manipulation would probably include something obvious so that you could keep track of it - the equivalent of putting an antibiotic-resistance gene in a bacterium so that you can distinguish it by growth alone. A real crazed genetic manipulation wouldn't include anything so identifiable.

However, if you were trying to make something super-dangerous, you'd probably have to start mixing up different types of virus that don't necessarily co-exist naturally, and that would be easier to spot.
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Or maybe a small subtle tweak to something that's already dangerous enough. A lot of people think Covid-19 is a mutation of a virus found in bats. Maybe the species crossing was the only change?

Honestly I have no idea, but the main point of discussion is that bio-engineered plagues are not something that has been seen often. Also... what one looks like depends on how it was made. And like you said, if you wanted the source to be untraceable you wouldn't sign it with your name. It would also make sense to use materials acquired from natural viruses.
gordonrutter said:
And using CRISPR for gene editing often leaves a characteristic signature in the genome I believe.
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If that was used. I'm not sure what other methods are available, and it might be something new for all I know. I haven't seen conclusive information it was or wasn't....
 
There are so many places I could have posted this; I think this thread is as good as any.

The Wisconsin pharmacist who intentionally sabotaged 570 doses of the Moderna coronavirus vaccine because he thought COVID-19 was a hoax, also believes the earth is flat and the sky is actually a “shield put up by the Government to prevent individuals from seeing God.”

https://www.thedailybeast.com/wisco...-a-flat-earther-fbi-document-reveals?ref=home

It's obvious that this guy is seriously disturbed and a potential threat to others. Granted, he is an extreme example, but I think we are making a mistake if we dismiss all flat-earthers, QAnon followers, Pizza-gaters and other assorted conspiracy theorists as just amusing cuckoos for us to laugh and roll our eyes at. I think we are looking at a massive mental health crisis that threatens the stability of society. Naturally, I haven't a clue what could realistically be done to correct it . . .
 
Frasier Buddolph said:
It's obvious that this guy is seriously disturbed and a potential threat to others. Granted, he is an extreme example, but I think we are making a mistake if we dismiss all flat-earthers, QAnon followers, Pizza-gaters and other assorted conspiracy theorists as just amusing cuckoos for us to laugh and roll our eyes at. I think we are looking at a massive mental health crisis that threatens the stability of society. Naturally, I haven't a clue what could realistically be done to correct it . . .
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There are so many of them right now, it's getting worrisome.
According to them it's us the sheeple who has been brainwashed, not them, no no no. No way...
 
Anti-Vaxxers Won’t Stop Harassing Nurse They’re Convinced Is Dead

Tiffany Dover fainted after getting the COVID vaccine on TV. Then the insanity started.
Emily Shugerman
Gender Reporter
Published Feb. 01, 2021 5:11AM ET
For weeks now, commenters have flooded Tennessee nurse Tiffany Dover’s Facebook wall with messages of tribute, praising her kindness and beauty and offering their condolences for her loss.
“Tiffany died a hero,” they wrote—and “RIP Angel.”
There are more than 22,000 comments on her last Facebook post, from people around the world—a collective grieving and outpouring of anger for the 30-year-old mother of two.
But Tiffany Dover is not dead.
According to all official sources, she is alive and well and working as a nurse at CHI Memorial Hospital in Chattanooga. Last week, she was pictured on the front of the local newspaper caring for a north Georgia police chief who had been in the hospital for nearly 100 days.
Dover is not the victim of some medical mishap, as her mourners allege, but of a massive global conspiracy theory that has united anti-vaxxers and COVID skeptics in a dangerous attempt to prove themselves right.
The outcry started in mid-December, when six staff members at CHI Memorial Hospital were selected to receive their first dose of Pfizer’s COVID-19 vaccine on live TV. Dover, a nurse manager at the hospital, was one of them. Speaking with reporters that day, she called the vaccine a symbol of hope, a light at the end of a very dark tunnel.

Daily Beast: Anti-Vaxxers Won’t Stop Harassing Nurse They’re Convinced Is Dead
 
Vardoger said:
Anti-Vaxxers Won’t Stop Harassing Nurse They’re Convinced Is Dead
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The wheels are coming off the bus . . .

Some random thoughts:

The folks caught up in this madness may be blameless (as in ill), but they are no less dangerous for that. Some kind of intervention is desperately needed.

People who know better but are cynically pushing this kind of nonsense just to wind up the susceptible are truly enemies of society. There should be consequences.

I don't know if social media is causing this or just facilitating it. Either way, it's high time they were forced to confront their culpability. Again, there should be consequences.

Okay, rant mode off . . .
 
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Nothing says that we have to listen to nutters though.
And if we do listen to them, we don't have to believe them.

Spaceman Tony used to come out with all sorts of arse-gravy but we just used to say 'Oh really, Tony?' and let him get on with it.

Granted though, if someone says something nutty but believable that encourages another person to do something dangerous then that needs addressing.
But we don't have to 'silence', 'censor', or 'cancel' some fruitcake just because he (or she) says that they believe the can of corned beef they have is an atom bomb (eg)
 
Tiffany Dover could shut them all up by making a public appearance to tell them that she is alive and well.
 
bugmum said:
But then according to that article, the doubters would just say it was her body double anyway. Unbelievable!
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You're right, but I'd like to think it would sort out most of the idiots.
 
Mythopoeika said:
Tiffany Dover could shut them all up by making a public appearance to tell them that she is alive and well.
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She did just that via video. If you read the story:

The hospital where she was a nurse issued a statement saying she was fine.

When this didn't stop the stories, 2 days later they videoed her together with other nurses holding a sign showing the the days date. That didn't convince either.

Her brother in law then confirmed she was alive & well, as did her sister in law & father in law.

The point is, you can't convince hardcore conspiracy believers no matter how crazy it appears to those of a 'more rational' disposition. They're so heavily invested in their belief they won't let go of it & there's a whole legion out there all too ready to lap the stuff up.
 
charliebrown said:
I still think COVID is a bio weapon accidentally let loose on the world.
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The whole point of a bioweapon is to use it against your enemy, if you are using a virus with the capability of becoming pandemic, you make damn sure you have a vaccination in place for your own population BEFORE you release it, to use a virus that is so virulent is a really bad idea for a bioweapon otherwise, the fact that it has limited effect on people under 30 (not saying it has no effect), and is most deadly against the older and clinically vulnerable, is also a really bad bioweapon, ideally you would want a virus that effects people who are capable of fighting ie soldiers, it make ni military swnse to kill off the aging and sick population of your enemy, whilst leavung the strong and fit perfectly able to fight, some might say that it would aid your enemy to kill off the infirm and freeing up resourses fir the health, so in summing up, COVID19 is a really bad bioweapon.
 
Souleater said:
The whole point of a bioweapon is to use it against your enemy, if you are using a virus with the capability of becoming pandemic, you make damn sure you have a vaccination in place for your own population BEFORE you release it,
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Hence accidentally. If Covid is a bioweapon it's a pretty good one as it is crippling a whole load of countries apart from the one of origin as it went back to normal ages ago.
 
Min Bannister said:
Hence accidentally. If Covid is a bioweapon it's a pretty good one as it is crippling a whole load of countries apart from the one of origin as it went back to normal ages ago.
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We only have Chinas word that they are back to 'normal', there have been numerous outbreaks reported by western media in China recently, also it is a lot easier for a totalatarian state to impose strict lockdown proceedures and enforce them, usually ruthlessly, remember early o the images of peopke suspected of being infected, being snatched off of the street in to unmarked vehicles? The population of the states are also more likely to abide by strict lockdown proceedures for fear of being detained/snatched/imprisoned/killed by the state.
 
hunck said:
She did just that via video. If you read the story:

The hospital where she was a nurse issued a statement saying she was fine.

When this didn't stop the stories, 2 days later they videoed her together with other nurses holding a sign showing the the days date. That didn't convince either.

Her brother in law then confirmed she was alive & well, as did her sister in law & father in law.

The point is, you can't convince hardcore conspiracy believers no matter how crazy it appears to those of a 'more rational' disposition. They're so heavily invested in their belief they won't let go of it & there's a whole legion out there all too ready to lap the stuff up.
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As i have said before, you cant argue with stupid!
 
Souleater said:
We only have Chinas word that they are back to 'normal', there have been numerous outbreaks reported by western media in China recently, also it is a lot easier for a totalatarian state to impose strict lockdown proceedures and enforce them, usually ruthlessly, remember early o the images of peopke suspected of being infected, being snatched off of the street in to unmarked vehicles? The population of the states are also more likely to abide by strict lockdown proceedures for fear of being detained/snatched/imprisoned/killed by the state.
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Handy if you happen to be trying to engineer a bioweapon and have a relaxed attitude to safety. :thought:

I am not saying I believe they did. Just that I am not yet convinced either way.
 
hunck said:
She did just that via video. If you read the story:

The hospital where she was a nurse issued a statement saying she was fine.

When this didn't stop the stories, 2 days later they videoed her together with other nurses holding a sign showing the the days date. That didn't convince either.

Her brother in law then confirmed she was alive & well, as did her sister in law & father in law.

The point is, you can't convince hardcore conspiracy believers no matter how crazy it appears to those of a 'more rational' disposition. They're so heavily invested in their belief they won't let go of it & there's a whole legion out there all too ready to lap the stuff up.
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I have to wonder if there is some sort of disinformation at work here. Why? because of the way I keep seeing this "Flat Earther" thing get tossed out as a way to discredit people. It doesn't even have anything to do with the reason why someone is being discredited. It's thrown in as a way to make people not question whether the discrediting is valid. It's like an internet version of "she's a witch! burn her!" Then comes the digital equivalent of a lynch mob.
Souleater said:
We only have Chinas word that they are back to 'normal', there have been numerous outbreaks reported by western media in China recently, also it is a lot easier for a totalatarian state to impose strict lockdown proceedures and enforce them, usually ruthlessly, remember early o the images of peopke suspected of being infected, being snatched off of the street in to unmarked vehicles? The population of the states are also more likely to abide by strict lockdown proceedures for fear of being detained/snatched/imprisoned/killed by the state.
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Actually, there's a major counter indication. To my knowledge, China only explained how they got rid to the virus in WUHAN... not the rest of China, and we know it also affected their port cities.
Min Bannister said:
Hence accidentally. If Covid is a bioweapon it's a pretty good one as it is crippling a whole load of countries apart from the one of origin as it went back to normal ages ago.
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Yeah a virus that becomes contagious BEFORE making you sick? that's a big oddity. By the time people are sick it's too late for quarantine.
 
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