Holocaust Denial

[Stpauli9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Rassinier

Now let me begin by saying I am staunchly anti-Nazi.

It baffles me that the man credited with starting Holocaust denial was himself a victim.

Paul Rassinier was a member of the French resistance helping to smuggle Jews out of France until he was eventually sentenced to hard labour in the Buchenwald concentration camp. Now the important thing to note about Buchenwald is that it did not have a gas chamber, meaning that Rassinier never witnessed mass extermination.

After the war, when Rassinier heard stories of Jews being exterminated in gas chambers he accused them of being liars. Even when he was taken to see the gas chambers in other camps he insisted that they were fake and that there were holes in the story. In fact, he would later claim that the stories of Jews being executed in gas chambers were a part of a shadowy plot by communists to destroy Europe.

So how did this arsehole end up so influential in the Holocaust denial movement? Firstly, he was great at self-promotion to the point where his French texts were widely translated into English, the most prominent being his 1977 anthology "Debunking the Genocide Myth". Secondly, he was a conspiracy theorists' dream person. Something important to note about Holocaust deniers is that most aren't stupid enough to outright deny the Holocaust. Mostly they'll try to downplay the numbers killed or claim that the Nazis didn't have an official policy of exterminating Jews (the infamous 'no ovens, no murders' myth, disregarding that the Nazis bulldozed the ovens at Dachau and other camps). And who better to back up your claims than a survivor of the camps who insisted that the Nazis didn't systemically exterminate Jews (even though all the evidence was completely against him)? Rassinier became a celebrity darling of the Holocaust denial movement and would influence "academic Holocaust revisionism" through proteges like Austin App - a medieval literature professor. He is still cited to this day by Holocaust deniers.

There is a happy ending though: Rassinier doesn't seem to have financially profited much from his Holocaust denial. He died a broke arsehole in 1967.

 

[Ogdred Weary]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Rassinier

Now let me begin by saying I am staunchly anti-Nazi.

It baffles me that the man credited with starting Holocaust denial was himself a victim.

Paul Rassinier was a member of the French resistance helping to smuggle Jews out of France until he was eventually sentenced to hard labour in the Buchenwald concentration camp. Now the important thing to note about Buchenwald is that it did not have a gas chamber, meaning that Rassinier never witnessed mass extermination.

After the war, when Rassinier heard stories of Jews being exterminated in gas chambers he accused them of being liars. Even when he was taken to see the gas chambers in other camps he insisted that they were fake and that there were holes in the story. In fact, he would later claim that the stories of Jews being executed in gas chambers were a part of a shadowy plot by communists to destroy Europe.

So how did this arsehole end up so influential in the Holocaust denial movement? Firstly, he was great at self-promotion to the point where his French texts were widely translated into English, the most prominent being his 1977 anthology "Debunking the Genocide Myth". Secondly, he was a conspiracy theorists' dream person. Something important to note about Holocaust deniers is that most aren't stupid enough to outright deny the Holocaust. Mostly they'll try to downplay the numbers killed or claim that the Nazis didn't have an official policy of exterminating Jews (the infamous 'no ovens, no murders' myth, disregarding that the Nazis bulldozed the ovens at Dachau and other camps). And who better to back up your claims than a survivor of the camps who insisted that the Nazis didn't systemically exterminate Jews (even though all the evidence was completely against him)? Rassinier became a celebrity darling of the Holocaust denial movement and would influence "academic Holocaust revisionism" through proteges like Austin App - a medieval literature professor. He is still cited to this day by Holocaust deniers.

There is a happy ending though: Rassinier doesn't seem to have financially profited much from his Holocaust denial. He died a broke arsehole in 1967.

View attachment 51525

People are insane we should all be nuked from orbit.

No doubt the literally atomised bits of some people would still be denying that this had actually happened.

 

[Cochise]

Whoopi Goldberg getting into hot water with her comments about the Holocaust.

In response to The Holocaust being the Nazi’s systematic annihilation of the Jewish people, who they deemed to be an inferior race, Goldberg said they [Nazis and Jews] "were two groups of white people".

Following a backlash, she issued an apology.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture...ologises-for-saying-holocaust-isnt-about-race

What an utterly stupid thing to say. I wonder what here definition of 'white' is?

 

[Yithian]

What an utterly stupid thing to say. I wonder what here definition of 'white' is?

She's an American TV celebrity.

Were you expecting incisive analysis?

Please let's not get into debating absurd racial categorisations. Perspectives on the holocaust through the lens of U.S. interracial strife tell us nothing we need to hear about the holocaust and precious little of worth about anything else besides.

 

[ramonmercado]

Jokes rather than denial.

Police inquiry reveals Met officers made Holocaust joke in texts described as 'banter'​

The officers also made rape threats and joked about domestic assault
https://www.thejc.com/news/news/pol...ts-described-as-banter-5pWy9THSHvSp6pZD3qmHle

 

[Yithian]

Jokes rather than denial.

Police inquiry reveals Met officers made Holocaust joke in texts described as 'banter'​

The officers also made rape threats and joked about domestic assault
https://www.thejc.com/news/news/pol...ts-described-as-banter-5pWy9THSHvSp6pZD3qmHle

Guilty--these jokes are not funny.

They're not even really jokes.

 

[cycleboy2]

Jokes rather than denial.

Police inquiry reveals Met officers made Holocaust joke in texts described as 'banter'​

The officers also made rape threats and joked about domestic assault
https://www.thejc.com/news/news/pol...ts-described-as-banter-5pWy9THSHvSp6pZD3qmHle

It's truly shocking that this is the face of 21st century Britain.

I just don't know anybody who would accept that sort of 'banter'; I suspect if I had made any of those comments when I was in my last job it would have resulted in my instant dismissal, as I'm sure somewhere in my contract there would have been a clause (rightly) prohibiting such behaviour.

Shameful.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

Whoopi Goldberg getting into hot water with her comments about the Holocaust.

In response to The Holocaust being the Nazi’s systematic annihilation of the Jewish people, who they deemed to be an inferior race, Goldberg said they [Nazis and Jews] "were two groups of white people".

Following a backlash, she issued an apology.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture...ologises-for-saying-holocaust-isnt-about-race

Ms Goldberg has received a token slap on the wrist - 2 week ban from ABC News, for dismissing The Holocaust as just two groups of white people.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture...e-view-after-saying-holocaust-isnt-about-race

 

[Ogdred Weary]

I'm not sure that I make of this, comparing using bug spray to Auschwitz is in poor taste but hardly condones the Holocaust. The comments about turning African immigrant children is far less defensible to say the least. However, gallows or morbid humour has its place. I'm not saying I found those comments funny, as Yith said, they aren't actually jokes but I have laughed at things that people might find to be in similarly bad or worse taste, as have many others; some comedians and comedy writers are paid to come out with stuff which might be deemed as offensive.

Obviously these are police officers and have to be held to a higher standard of behaviour than many other workers due to their responsibility but equally I can see how similarly black humour might manifest also amongst soldiers or medical staff, due to the nature of these jobs.

 

[maximus otter]

Ms Goldberg has received a token slap on the wrist - 2 week ban from ABC News, for dismissing The Holocaust as just two groups of white people.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture...e-view-after-saying-holocaust-isnt-about-race

Here are Goldberg's exact words from the Groan:

“Let’s be truthful, the Holocaust isn’t about race, it’s not. It’s about man’s inhumanity to man, that’s what it’s about. These are two groups of white people. You’re missing the point … let’s talk about it for what it really is. It’s about how people treat each other. It’s a problem. It doesn’t matter if you’re black or white, Jews … everybody eats each other.”

How TF can anyone get upset about that? I find myself in the very unlikely position of siding with Whoopi here. Her only "crime" was to include the word "white", which opened the door to the perpetually-offended.

maximus otter

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

Here are Goldberg's exact words from the Groan:

“Let’s be truthful, the Holocaust isn’t about race, it’s not. It’s about man’s inhumanity to man, that’s what it’s about. These are two groups of white people. You’re missing the point … let’s talk about it for what it really is. It’s about how people treat each other. It’s a problem. It doesn’t matter if you’re black or white, Jews … everybody eats each other.”

How TF can anyone get upset about that? I find myself in the very unlikely position of siding with Whoopi here. Her only "crime" was to include the word "white", which opened the door to the perpetually-offended.

maximus otter

It was her dismissive attitude about "isn't about race" and "two groups of white people" when, to the Nazis, the Jews were obviously considered an inferior race.

 

[Min Bannister]

I'm not sure that I make of this, comparing using bug spray to Auschwitz is in poor taste but hardly condones the Holocaust. The comments about turning African immigrant children is far less defensible to say the least. However, gallows or morbid humour has its place. I'm not saying I found those comments funny, as Yith said, they aren't actually jokes but I have laughed at things that people might find to be in similarly bad or worse taste, as have many others; some comedians and comedy writers are paid to come out with stuff which might be deemed as offensive.

Obviously these are police officers and have to be held to a higher standard of behaviour than many other workers due to their responsibility but equally I can see how similarly black humour might manifest also amongst soldiers or medical staff, due to the nature of these jobs.

Maybe those were just the ones that were publishable? This is on a website called The Jewish Chronicle so this is just the angle they have chosen to headline. There is also reference to rape threats towards female colleagues or partners of colleagues. Having endured such an environment myself, constant rape jokes and threats of gang rape are not really "banter". Neither are monkey noises and postures and stupid accents directed at anyone guilty of being black. Or "thalidomide child" being loudly used as an insult towards others whenever a man who may well have been affected by thalidomide was present. I could keep going for hours but I will stop now. It is difficult to describe how nasty such an environment is although I am sure it was all brilliant fun and top banter for those doing the targeting. Rather less so for those on the receiving end. It wears you down and in fact eventually wore me down until I had to leave.

 

[Ogdred Weary]

Maybe those were just the ones that were publishable? This is on a website called The Jewish Chronicle so this is just the angle they have chosen to headline. There is also reference to rape threats towards female colleagues or partners of colleagues. Having endured such an environment myself, constant rape jokes and threats of gang rape are not really "banter". Neither are monkey noises and postures and stupid accents directed at anyone guilty of being black. Or "thalidomide child" being loudly used as an insult towards others whenever a man who may well have been affected by thalidomide was present. I could keep going for hours but I will stop now. It is difficult to describe how nasty such an environment is although I am sure it was all brilliant fun and top banter for those doing the targeting. Rather less so for those on the receiving end. It wears you down and in fact eventually wore me down until I had to leave.

I'm sorry to hear that, that's repugnant behaviour.

I only skim read the article and noticed the two comments I mentioned. There's no excuse for rape threats, they should be taken as an actual threat to commit rape and should be dealt with as such. Men making gang rape jokes in an environment with women should not be happening, nor should it be happening in the work place. Needless to say, no, I don't think making monkey noises at black people is OK, nor disability jokes in front of a disabled person. It sounds like the arseholes you worked with were spiteful bullies and should all probably have been sacked.

There is however a difference between making jokes you "shouldn't make" (always a red flag to a bull) with people who are on the same page and being abusive towards others making the same jokes. I might have a nasty sense of humour but I keep that in check and I'm not the sort to exclude others for stupid, arbitrary reasons nor to randomly pick on anyone, including passively. I wouldn't want to work with people like the ones you described either nor would I behave as they did.

 

[Min Bannister]

I'm sorry to hear that, that's repugnant behaviour.

I only skim read the article and noticed the two comments I mentioned. There's no excuse for rape threats, they should be taken as an actual threat to commit rape and should be dealt with as such. Men making gang rape jokes in an environment with women should not be happening, nor should it be happening in the work place. Needless to say, no, I don't think making monkey noises at black people is OK, nor disability jokes in front of a disabled person. It sounds like the arseholes you worked with were spiteful bullies and should all probably have been sacked.

There is however a difference between making jokes you "shouldn't make" (always a red flag to a bull) with people who are on the same page and being abusive towards others making the same jokes. I might have a nasty sense of humour but I keep that in check and I'm not the sort to exclude others for stupid, arbitrary reasons nor to randomly pick on anyone, including passively. I wouldn't want to work with people like the ones you described either nor would I behave as they did.

Yes and it is worth pointing out here that "they" (white males) were not all like that, the ones that were were just very vocal and of course it went right up the chain. It probably would have been a very bad idea for any of them to have spoken out against this culture as it would have marked them out as a poof or something. A wee glance at the newspaper headlines on the BBC website confirms that I am correct in my assumptions about what was going on. It all looks very familiar.

 

[Cochise]

Yes and it is worth pointing out here that "they" (white males) were not all like that, the ones that were were just very vocal and of course it went right up the chain. It probably would have been a very bad idea for any of them to have spoken out against this culture as it would have marked them out as a poof or something. A wee glance at the newspaper headlines on the BBC website confirms that I am correct in my assumptions about what was going on. It all looks very familiar.

Even if you are somewhat up the food chain and try to tackle it you just get accused of wanting to get into the offended person's knickers or similar trash. I was able to put a stop to it when I was actually in charge. At least in my hearing, and since people knew they could complain I'm hoping out of my hearing as well.

When you've been given the white crow treatment as a kid for a difference you can do nothing about it makes you realise what others go through that is laughingly called 'humour'.

It's also why I find the notion of 'white privilege' a nonsense. You might call it 'normal privilege', I suppose - based on what society (both at large and in one's current social environment) sees as 'normal'.

 

[AgProv]

It's a curious thought, but just how long does the collective memory consider something a touchy subject?
If one were to make jokes about the Holocaust, unless it were done in a very, very clever way, peolpe on the whole would be appalled.
If, on the other hand, one were to make light of the fact that Ghengis Khan is reckoned to have exterminated 12 million Chinese peasants, purely for the fact that they were Chinese peasants, no-one would batter an eyelid, except to perhaps take on board an interesting 'did-you-know?' that they hadn't heard before.
Obviously, this is an extreme example. The events, though similar, are divided by nigh-on a thousand years. However, it raises the question - What length of time must pass after an atrocity before the collective consciousness accepts it as no longer a touchy subject?
By this, I don't mean, how much time elapses before individuals can make light of an atrocity. I'd recieved texts with 9/11 jokes by the 12th of September, for example. This humour relies on it's shock value and 'bad taste' to have an impact. What I'm wondering (incoherently, I suspect) is how long does it take for events to cease to be shocking in people's minds (and hence for such 'bad taste' jokes to cease to be relevant - just as no-one would laugh at jokes about the Mongol scouring of China, but not because they were upset by it?

Aware of having to be really careful of what is said on this thread and to choose words and subtopics carefully. But I'm remembering from reading the history that Ghenghiz Khan, on his Westward conquest, was so angry with a people called (I remember) the Khwarezm (memory fades here as to the exact spelling) and they offended him so much that he decreed the entire people should be slaughtered and ther lands erased from the face of the Earth. Nobody remembers today much about who the Khwarezem (sp - ?) were. So is it possible this was the first recorded genocide and holocaust? Might have been in what's now Northern Iran and Iraq or the Kurdish country. Time, distance and relevance do affect this: who talks about the Rwandan massacre very much these days, although this is only a couple of decades ago?

 

[Cochise]

Aware of having to be really careful of what is said on this thread and to choose words and subtopics carefully. But I'm remembering from reading the history that Ghenghiz Khan, on his Westward conquest, was so angry with a people called (I remember) the Khwarezm (memory fades here as to the exact spelling) and they offended him so much that he decreed the entire people should be slaughtered and ther lands erased from the face of the Earth. Nobody remembers today much about who the Khwarezem (sp - ?) were. So is it possible this was the first recorded genocide and holocaust? Might have been in what's now Northern Iran and Iraq or the Kurdish country. Time, distance and relevance do affect this: who talks about the Rwandan massacre very much these days, although this is only a couple of decades ago?

Good points. We should remember the the Jewish Holocaust is not the only genocide by any means, it's not even the only Nazi act of genocide. I'm pleased to note that over the last decade or so Jewish sites - some at least - have made an effort to also mention the other Nazi victims.

Edit: Perhaps it's the industrial nature of the Holocaust that makes it especially horrifying?

 

[Yithian]

Aware of having to be really careful of what is said on this thread and to choose words and subtopics carefully. But I'm remembering from reading the history that Ghenghiz Khan, on his Westward conquest, was so angry with a people called (I remember) the Khwarezm (memory fades here as to the exact spelling) and they offended him so much that he decreed the entire people should be slaughtered and ther lands erased from the face of the Earth. Nobody remembers today much about who the Khwarezem (sp - ?) were. So is it possible this was the first recorded genocide and holocaust? Might have been in what's now Northern Iran and Iraq or the Kurdish country. Time, distance and relevance do affect this: who talks about the Rwandan massacre very much these days, although this is only a couple of decades ago?

Details here, but accounting for the ancient inflation of figures, we're likely not in the same numerical order.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_conquest_of_the_Khwarazmian_Empire

 

[EnolaGaia]

Edit: Perhaps it's the industrial nature of the Holocaust that makes it especially horrifying?

There's no question the 'industrial' decision making, planning, and administration of the Holocaust project adds a layer of cold evil that amplifies the horror. I've seen samples of the evidence from the business-like manner in which the extermination campaign was conducted. As noted back in 2018:

I've been privileged to meet and discuss this with a history professor who was a consulting member of the commission formed to evaluate war crimes and track down war criminals. The evidence of the atrocities we usually see is awful enough, to be sure, but ...

The evidence for how the Nazi authorities treated it like any large-scale government-run enterprise is something I found even more disturbing, once I'd seen it. ...

From start to finish the administration of the final solution was a textbook exercise in rational management practices, and this chills me as much as the gruesome results.

The 2001 film, Conspiracy, based on the Wannsee Conference where the mechanics of the Final Solution were thrashed out among top-level Nazis, is a pretty good depiction of the full horror of the matter-of-fact industrialisation of the Holocaust .

 

[maximus otter]

There's no question the 'industrial' decision making, planning, and administration of the Holocaust project adds a layer of cold evil that amplifies the horror. I've seen samples of the evidence from the business-like manner in which the extermination campaign was conducted.

IIRC the Deutsche Reichsbahn negotiated a fixed person/kilometer fee from the Hitler regime, for transporting victims to the death camps by rail:

7 pfennig/km, half price for the under-tens, and under-fours went free.

maximus otter

 

[EnolaGaia]

IIRC the Deutsche Reichsbahn negotiated a fixed person/kilometer fee from the Hitler regime, for transporting victims to the death camps by rail:
7 pfennig/km, half price for the under-tens, and under-fours went free.

I can't confirm the detailed fee schedule from memory, but I can confirm the existence and imposition of transport charges that were levied against those transported. I've personally seen samples of the accounting records for such rail trips, which IIRC were listed on the books as "excursions" analogous to chartered group vacations.

Most folks don't understand that above and beyond the semi-destroyed camps and mass graves a huge mass of auxiliary documentation (most especially relating to camp killing apparatus, supply requisitions, and transport) survived the war to serve as a damning evidentiary base.

 

[maximus otter]

…such rail trips, which IIRC were listed on the books as "excursions"…

maximus otter

 

[Lb8535]

I'm sorry to hear that, that's repugnant behaviour.

I only skim read the article and noticed the two comments I mentioned. There's no excuse for rape threats, they should be taken as an actual threat to commit rape and should be dealt with as such. Men making gang rape jokes in an environment with women should not be happening, nor should it be happening in the work place. Needless to say, no, I don't think making monkey noises at black people is OK, nor disability jokes in front of a disabled person. It sounds like the arseholes you worked with were spiteful bullies and should all probably have been sacked.

There is however a difference between making jokes you "shouldn't make" (always a red flag to a bull) with people who are on the same page and being abusive towards others making the same jokes. I might have a nasty sense of humour but I keep that in check and I'm not the sort to exclude others for stupid, arbitrary reasons nor to randomly pick on anyone, including passively. I wouldn't want to work with people like the ones you described either nor would I behave as they did.

No, that's the point. If you make jokes about how dumb and inferior and OK-to-harm black people or Jews or blind people or women are "only" when they are not present it just confirms in the minds of you and your your colleagues that this is in fact OK to do and sets/hardens thought patterns, which influence behavior. As primates we are genetically defensive, which means that once we developed language we loved to trash people from other tribes. Stopping doing it is a good step to getting beyond this. There are always ways to make the same jokes if they are in fact actually good. Jokes that are funny only because they trash "others" are poor. Jokes that are funny because they trash or reveal weaknesses in yourself are much more skillful.

 

[Lb8535]

Here are Goldberg's exact words from the Groan:

“Let’s be truthful, the Holocaust isn’t about race, it’s not. It’s about man’s inhumanity to man, that’s what it’s about. These are two groups of white people. You’re missing the point … let’s talk about it for what it really is. It’s about how people treat each other. It’s a problem. It doesn’t matter if you’re black or white, Jews … everybody eats each other.”

How TF can anyone get upset about that? I find myself in the very unlikely position of siding with Whoopi here. Her only "crime" was to include the word "white", which opened the door to the perpetually-offended.

maximus otter

I love Goldberg but she did fall into a pothole here. A "race" is only defined by the people calling it, always for the worst motivations. In the contemporary US this is almost always related to skin color and it's the thing we have to watch for most of the time. But not always.

 

[Trevp666]

Decades of research and discussion around the subject of the treatment of people of 'non-aryan' descent during the period of WWII etc have arrived at the conclusion that it was a holocaust, whichever way you look at it, and thus one of the most horrendous acts that one group of people can carry out on another group of people.
I doubt whether anything that someone on TV says, or anyone has added in any posts in any forum, is likely to suddenly change that.
Beyond any new information coming to light that would be of interest in a purely educational way, it is probably a subject which should have it's discussion treated with sensitivity, at best.

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

I love Goldberg but she did fall into a pothole here. A "race" is only defined by the people calling it, always for the worst motivations. In the contemporary US this is almost always related to skin color and it's the thing we have to watch for most of the time. But not always.

I don't think she fell into anything.
By dismissing The Holocaust as "two groups of white people" she revealed her own bigotry and how hung up on skin colour she is.

 

[Yithian]

I love Goldberg but she did fall into a pothole here. A "race" is only defined by the people calling it, always for the worst motivations. In the contemporary US this is almost always related to skin color and it's the thing we have to watch for most of the time. But not always.

I just watched the footage and I couldn't understand what she meant until the penny dropped and I realised she thought skin colour and race were the same thing.

Which you say is closer to being accurate in the United States but certainly is not most other places in the world.

It really, really is not.

This is not holocaust denialism, it's plain ignorance.

She doesn't understand what a/the holocaust is or what the word 'race' means.

It's like my saying 2+2 = cabbage.

It isn't really wrong, it doesn't even qualify as an answer to be judged.

 

[Lb8535]

I just watched the footage and I couldn't understand what she meant until the penny dropped and I realised she thought skin colour and race are the same thing.

Which you say is closer to being accurate in the United States but certainly is not most other places in the world.

It really, really is not.

This is not holocaust denialism, it's plain ignorance.

She doesn't understand what a/the holocaust is or what the word 'race' means.

It's like my saying 2+2 = cabbage.

It isn't really wrong, it doesn't even qualify as an answer to be judged.

She does make sense to the extent that in the US it's far and away the biggest problem to deal with. But yes, she didn't think it through. I find her a very perceptive comedian and commentator but she occasionally puts her foot in. As do we all.

 

[Endlessly Amazed]

It was her dismissive attitude about "isn't about race" and "two groups of white people" when, to the Nazis, the Jews were obviously considered an inferior race.

I did not think Goldberg’s attitude was dismissive; it seemed to me to be a different perspective focusing on a differently aggregated level of humanity vs humanity: “lumper”, and not at the more detailed level of particular groups of humanity: “splitter” - as evidenced by Nazis against different groups of humanity – Jews, gays, etc. BTW, Goldberg is a widespread Jewish name in the US, and Whoopi claims she is Jewish. Just to confuse the issue.

If someone has a different perspective than I do, almost always I do not think it is dismissive. Sometimes it is, but not usually. To reject a person’s opinion because it goes against the currently accepted, milieu-dependent, interpretation is to have the assumption that the current accepted interpretation is the true one, the virtuous one, the better one, and so on. This then often drifts into virtue signalling, which inevitably is the beginning of the end of intelligent discussion.

Random thoughts: I have reason to believe that I am part-Jewish, although that was never discussed in my family because it was shameful. I was raised to be against Jews and lots of other groups. As I grew up, I changed my mind about many topics; and yes, I feel the need to point this out here in the Fortean forums to pre-emptively defend myself. I have had American Jews refuse to shake my hand when I told them I was Polish, in response to their very direct question about my ethnic heritage. I have had Jewish-American university personnel lecture me that the Human Subjects Committee was necessary to ensure that graduate students did not recreate the Holocaust. WTF. For those who may not know, HSC are required in American universities which accept Federal funding; HSC reviews all research proposals to ensure the researchers do not inadvertently hurt the subjects. ALL these persons – family members biased against Jews, Jews biased against Poles, Jewish HSC members - were convinced they had the higher ground ethically.

..leading to the non-random, not surprising, conclusion that many topics about human interaction are fraught with opportunities to take offense and feel virtuous. Taking offense against an opinion different than the current perspective about a sensitive topic is increasingly popular.

I do not think Goldberg was dismissive; and I extend my sympathy to @maximus otter in his very unlikely position of siding with her. I fervently hope it does not happen again (but it probably will ).

 

[blessmycottonsocks]

If someone has a different perspective than I do, almost always I do not think it is dismissive. Sometimes it is, but not usually. To reject a person’s opinion because it goes against the currently accepted, milieu-dependent, interpretation is to have the assumption that the current accepted interpretation is the true one, the virtuous one, the better one, and so on. This then often drifts into virtue signalling, which inevitably is the beginning of the end of intelligent discussion.

Not sure I fully understand your point, but I sincerely hope there will never come a time when The Holocaust - an uniquely evil attempt to exterminate the Jewish race, is ever regarded as an issue between two groups of white people.