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Art Crimes (Theft; Forgery; Etc.)

lopaka

lopaka

Gone But Not Forgotten
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A rather curious story about the theft of a Salvador Dali painting from a New York prison.here

But the thing it made me think about is something I've thought about over the years: what a an odd kind of crime art theft is.

I'm not a criminal mastermind, or indeed a criminal of any stripe, so maybe I'm missing something here.(Well, technically speaking I'm a sexual outlaw according to the laws of my state, but that's neither here nor there.) If you were going to steal, it would seem cash would be best. It's essentially untraceable and possesion of it is not a crime.

If you steal something like jewelery or televisions, you need a middleman to fence it, but there are plenty of pawn shops or unscrupulous types who will take it off your hands.

But a one-of-a-kind work of art "worth" perhaps $500,000? How do you move that? It could never appear on the open market. Is there a buyer who makes a specific order for a particular piece? And what kind of twisted person would pay half a million for a painting they could never show anybody, just sitting alone in their basement looking at it?

OK, it's late, but I do think about these things sometimes. Any ideas?
 
Probably the sense of accomplishment, or the honor it brings (in certain circles). There's markets for stolen archaelogical items (I think), I'm sure theres a market for works of art. Somewhere.
 
Certainly its a specialised crime and quite a sad one. Obviously these works of art fall into the hands of very rich secret buyers who then presumably hang said painting in their vast mansions where only they can see it. Ultimate selfishness? Or have they reached the point where they have everything else?
 
It probably just melted out of the window :goof:
 
since most "art" is in private hands why shouldnt that "art" be stolen... i was told that there are severil closed art collections that consiste of works stolen to order. However most art thefts from glllaeries are to "make a point" the Mona Lisa was once stolen and so was "the Scream" for polititacl ponts scouring...
 
i know where is its in the producers office of law and order (lao-svu):D
 
Cool, lenny briscoe's on the case :chuffed:
 
It does indeed seem to be based on a strong demand from the rich and unscrupulous. If you look at some of the pointless tat they buy for huge sums which mean nothing to them I guess it injects a note of excitement to life. I don't believe it's particularly common, though attracts a lot of attention in the media when it does occur. It's also quite popular within organised crime.
Then there is the market for fakes - I've heard figures like 50% of the works in famous art galleries are frauds, because usually "proof" that a work is real is based on opinion rather than fact. I have a feeling the 50% figure is a UL.
 
Theres three types of art theft

Archaeological – stuff which will reappear on the market. Its not hard to make an Etruscan bust look slightly different and provenance is relatively easy to forge.

Insurance. Paintings worth several million are regularly ‘recovered’ because the insurance co, know that paying say £200k to a ‘middle man’ for the painting costs less than paying £2m to the owner. The middle men are rarely setup to get nicked cos the insurance company knows they would never be able to do this sort of deal again.

Rich weirdos. This is the interesting section. Sad auld gits with a Monet in the basement. High level career crims for whom a stolen Monet is the ultimate ‘Up Yours’ thing. And theres always going to be a type of art dealer who gets a buzz out of the black market.

That said, it would have to be a bit of a buzz to have people say “No taste at all. Cheap Monet repro tat on the stairs my dear” in the knowledge it wasn’t cheap repro tat at all.

The Picasso Gallery at Chateau Despair is all from Ikea. Straights.
 
Originally posted by Dark Detective
[B I've heard figures like 50% of the works in famous art galleries are frauds, because usually "proof" that a work is real is based on opinion rather than fact. I have a feeling the 50% figure is a UL.
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50% is far too much nowdays... dateing techniques etc nowdays make it very hard for the forger. (tho if ur gona do it do it with paper objects cos the right date blank paper is easy to find in old books and inks havent changed at all if u use art inks) ... sometimes tho even wel known pieces are more restoration than original as many paintings and sculptures dont age as wel as u might think... also with sculpture its often the case that they wernt made by the sculpor themselves anyway and indeed may have been produced after their death from maquets(small mmodels of final works) in the same way as they were produced when they were alive.
 
I Am Self-Merging Bot Yellow

I'm merging a thread of mine with this one.... here is what I said, edited to be relevant to this discussion:

Also, I remember a rumor that stated it was rich Japanese businesses who were the main buyers of stolen art. This is surely what Snopes would call a racist rumor (an 80's - 90's thing), but it does make me wonder how could somebody be so rich and powerful that they could have a stolen masterpiece and not have SOMEBODY talk to somebody else.
 
since this thread started back in the dark days of 1945 I have discovered something

in many countries, notably Italy & Switzerland, you can buy a stolen picture and if you can prove you bought it not knowing it was nicked, you get to keep it

it seems the form is to pass it through four 'buyers' and then go public

the investigation trails back through the three blameless citizens until we reach the first vendor

Surprise Surprise

he has vanished

who'd of thought it Guv?
 
i would add that anyone buying a stolen painting is in grave danger of buying a forgery and finding a well respected art "expert" who would authenticate it must be dificult.
 
lopaka said:
But a one-of-a-kind work of art "worth" perhaps 0,000? How do you move that? It could never appear on the open market. Is there a buyer who makes a specific order for a particular piece? And what kind of twisted person would pay half a million for a painting they could never show anybody, just sitting alone in their basement looking at it?
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they're stolen to order and yes the recipiants sit in their basment looking at it.

Selfish, pointless posesionist crap: consumerism run wild.:hmph:
 
wish someone woudl come round and steal my art..saves me burning the bloody stuff..
 
Of course some of them are stolen to copy. Once it's known that a work is stolen then some of the richer and more rabid collectors will actively persue it.

You knock off a bunch of copies and sell them on. There's no origonal to compare them with, the buyers won't be putting them on public display and the buyers can hardly call the police if/when they notice.

Cujo
(I should have taken up crime as a career)
 
sidecar_jon said:
wish someone woudl come round and steal my art..saves me burning the bloody stuff..
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I'll do yours if you'll do mine...
 
the buyers can hardly call the police if/when they notice.
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Maybe not, but the sort of person who buys knocked-off art is likely to be:

Rich
Unprincipled
Ruthless
In possession of contacts with the criminal fraternity.

This not a good combination of traits to piss off.

"Anyone seen my kneecaps?"
"They're over there I think."
 
There's maybe the Trophy steal - someone who wants something for the sake of it to the exclusion of all others. There's the theft for ransome or eventual recovery through a third party for a reward or handling fee. Then museums are notorious for lax security - They have to be public so there's plenty of time to case the joint and often fairly amateurish sleepy attendants.


I wonder where the Lucian Freud portrait of Francis Bacon is now - It was stolen in Berlin a few years ago. it is probably one of the most distiinctive objects around (somewhere!) . But small and thus easily hidden.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/1401994.stm
 
Piscez said:
There's markets for stolen archaelogical items (I think), I'm sure theres a market for works of art. Somewhere.
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Collectors. Bloody collectors who aren't happy to go to a museum like everyone else.

Cujo, that's a Moriarty Plan (tm), naughty girl...
 
theres a big market for fake archeology too... well they dont know they are fakes!... those little egyptian thingies (ushaptie?) are easily faked so im told and sell well...... be interesting one day to "reproduce" somethign "interesting" plant it and see what happens.... now would i do a thing like that?
 
About as much as I would keep interesting things that I find in ruins.
 
sidecar_jon said:
way hay an "ART" party!.. wil it be chesnuts and baked potatoes?
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I was thinking more the sort of food you can throw around like Dusty Springfield would have.

We could call it a performance peice ;)
 
The Virgin Queen said:
I was thinking more the sort of food you can throw around like Dusty Springfield would have.

We could call it a performance peice ;)
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ohh we might get the Turner prize!... oh no we dont live in london and go to the right clubs.
 
sidecar_jon said:
ohh we might get the Turner prize!... oh no we dont live in london and go to the right clubs.
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bugger :(

Meby we could just burn a million outside it like the KLF did? (now that's what I call art...)
 
The Virgin Queen said:
bugger :(

Meby we could just burn a million outside it like the KLF did? (now that's what I call art...)
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i agree the KLF were/are better aritists than most in the Turner prize .. especiely for awarding the Turner winner double the amount for being the "worst" artist.... they took the money too!


maybe we should write to the KLF
 
Bill Drummond was responsible for the "silent protest" anti-war cards last year and recently produced some limited-edition things to stick on lamposts (not sure what, only read about it in passing, but that was like a couple of months ago). Jimmy Cauty, I have no idea, but I think he may have been involved in the "Solid Gold Chartbusters" record again a few years ago. Personally I reckon they should remaster and rerecord "The White Room" with a b-side compilation before they do ANYTHING else.

"Mine's a 99!"

*EDIT* I think the point of the lampost thing may have been for the public to steal them actually . . .
 
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