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Astrology - Birth Not Conception

dirtybob2

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My wife and i have just had a little girl - born on the 5th.
As I understand it is the date of birth that determines the star sign. What I am wondering is why the birth chosen as the event that determines this, does it imply that no soul is present until the time of delivery?
Also how do Astrologers get around the fact that they do not use all the solar systems planets?
 
Congratulations!

IIRC, the reason its taken from the time of birth, not conception, is that the baby is 'shielded', for want of a better word, by the mother's body. However, this doesn't sit easily with the folkloric notion of how babies can be mutated by something the mother experiences whilst pregnant.
 
Awwwww..... :)

I'd always assumed it was because knowing when it was conceived was a tad tricky?

er... usually anyway!

kath
 
Dirtybob said:
My wife and i have just had a little girl - born on the 5th.
As I understand it is the date of birth that determines the star sign. What I am wondering is why the birth chosen as the event that determines this, does it imply that no soul is present until the time of delivery?
Also how do Astrologers get around the fact that they do not use all the solar systems planets?

Congrats!

I agree with Kath - I think it's mainly the practical aspect that it's much easier to know the time of birth than the time of conception! But also I suppose by any frame of reference birth is a pretty big event and certainly does represent a new beginning.

I thought astrologers do use all the planets in the solar system? Certainly they use the Sun, Moon and Mercury through to Pluto. Some also use some of the asteroids such as Ceres (can't remember the others) which seems incredibly complicated to me!
 
Do they (not that there's one homogeneous system) use the planets that were only predicted/discovered fairly recently?

And if so, how?

OK I J, what's an Oort Cloud? very very simply please :)

Kath

PS in embroidery orts are the bits of thread left to throw away when you finish off and have a loose end to trim neatly!
 
Comets. Squillions of 'em. In a big cloud. The little bits of planets that got trimmed off and thrown away...
 
I'm interested in how it justifies itself. Or rather how believers justify it.

so is there just one oort cloud or lots?

Kath

PS liked the simple explanation - keep it up!
 
It hangs around outside the orbits of the planets, at the very edge of the solar system.
 
so it's "our" oort cloud? and is it a sine qua none of a well regulated system or is it just an extra we happen to have?

sorry, will go read the link....

Kath
 
stonedoggy said:
Do they (not that there's one homogeneous system) use the planets that were only predicted/discovered fairly recently?

And if so, how?

When new heavenly bodies are discovered or suspected it definitely provokes discussion amongst astrologers, but there is usually disagreement as to which objects are worthy of including and what they mean.

As far as I can remember the standard approach is to look at major events occurring in the world at around the same time as the planet was discovered, these then feed into the meanings it is given. This website gives quite a good example for Pluto:

http://home.mindspring.com/~hyperion/astro-planets-pluto.html

Astrologers also obviously use the characteristics of the god or goddess the planet is named after.

Also I get the impression that there is a sort of feminist movement within astrology that is appropriating a lot of the asteroids for women's issues eg:

http://goddess.astrology.com/ceres/index.html
 
Kaytee said:
Also I get the impression that there is a sort of feminist movement within astrology that is appropriating a lot of the asteroids for women's issues eg:

That's just sad. Why does an asteroid care that you're
On the Blob or have to car-pool...?
 
Inverurie Jones said:
That's just sad. Why does an asteroid care that you're
On the Blob or have to car-pool...?

:)

Well if you really want me to justify it! From an astrological perspective, asteroids don't care about anything, but the position of the planets reflects events on Earth, even down to what might seem like trivial events (but if you were car-pooling with me at that time of the month that might seem like a non-trivial event :D )

It's the old 'As above, so below' type thingy.

And the feminist bit is trying to reclaim some ground... after all, most of the planets are named after gods rather than goddesses. It's like 'Herstory' as opposed to 'History'. Which you may not appreciate either :)
 
Kaytee said:
It's like 'Herstory' as opposed to 'History'. Which you may not appreciate either :)

No, I don't. It's just petty.

Anyway, you lot can have the ground; we have the planets and stars to play with. :p
 
Fertility doctors to test theory that the secret to having a baby might lie in the planets
By Liz Hull
Last updated at 3:54 AM on 15th November 2010

Astrologists tell us that the position of the planets and stars shapes our lives.

But now fertility doctors are to test the theory that the solar system can actually help create life.

It follows claims that a British-based astrologer has succeeded in helping several desperate couples conceive when medical intervention failed.

Nicola Smuts, 42, says she can predict the best or ‘lucky’ time for a woman to become pregnant by analysing the alignment of the planets and comparing it to their positions at the time of her birth.

Although she admits some of her success is down to coincidence, a series of women say she has helped them have children where repeated attempts at IVF have failed.

Mrs Smuts also claims to be able to diagnose medical conditions which inhibit fertility by analysing the couple’s charts.

Now an American chain of IVF clinics is to study her work to see if it will shed light on why fertility treatment works in some women but fails in others.

Mandy Parry, 46, had had seven failed IVF treatments and four miscarriages when she contacted Mrs Smuts for help last year.
The teacher, who lives with her husband, Mark, 47, in Bristol, said she turned to an astrologer as a last resort. She went on to give birth to a healthy daughter, Violet, born through fertility treatment, in May.

‘I met Nicky in June last year and she told me the next good time to conceive was only six weeks away in August,’ Mrs Parry said.
‘I didn’t believe her but I did what she said because I was trying everything. I couldn’t believe it when the treatment worked.’

Catherine Blackledge, a chemist and science writer from Preston, Lancashire, contacted Mrs Smuts following five failed IVF attempts.
‘In the past I wouldn’t have imagined going anywhere near astrology,’ she said.
However, she too gave birth to a healthy daughter, Willow, in May.

Most scientists are at best sceptical about the role of the planets and their link to fertility.
However, it is a fact that the female menstrual cycle broadly follows the 28-day lunar month.

Mrs Smuts, a married mother of two who has had fertility treatment herself, said that women have two or three optimum times of the year for becoming pregnant.
These are based on when the planets are most closely aligned with their positions at their birth. Venus and Jupiter are thought to be the most closely linked to fertility.

Mrs Smuts, the granddaughter of Jan Smuts, the former South African prime minister, asks for a woman’s date of birth, time of day they were born and town of their birth to calculate their ‘lucky times’.

She said: ‘There are about two to three fertile moments in a year in anyone’s chart, at child bearing age, and it would benefit both the patient and the doctor if patients would use astrology to time their treatments.’ In the U.S., researchers at the Shady Grove Fertility chain of clinics want to test her claims by providing her with the birth details of hundreds of their clients.

She will then be asked to calculate the most promising dates for them to attempt conception and the clinic will monitor what happens.
Michael Levy, director of Shady Grove Fertility, told The Sunday Times: ‘I would love to see if there is something in this.

‘It’s very interesting. Lots of our patients benefit from acupuncture, massage, yoga and other complementary therapies and we don’t know how they work either.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z15LR6jafJ
 
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