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Atheism

Aydee_Aitchdee said:
I think there are many people who are happy to hum along without having a belief in a higher power without having to parade it up and down the street, list it on their wikipedia page, put it in their bio on social media, etc etc.

But there are many, many more people that wear a badge that says ATHIEST in big, bold neon letters so they can proclaim their superiority over the peasants who are so low class as to gasp believe in a higher power or worse yet, they toddle off to social media to make it a more visible part of their identity.

Conversely

I think there are many people who are happy to hum along with their faith and their beliefs without having to parade it up and down the street, list it on their wikipedia page, put it in their bio on social media, etc etc.

But there are many, many more people that wear a badge that says CHRISTAN OR JEW OR ISLAMIC in big, bold neon letters so they can proclaim their superiority over the peasants who are so low class as to gasp not believe in a higher power, or worse yet, they toddle off to social media to make it a more visible part of their identity.
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You missed out the ones who think their mythology should be taught in science lessons alongside or instead of actual science, that society should remove the long fought for rights of some individuals based on that mythology, and that advancing their religion is worth killing and dying for, and those who think there should be some pushback against those views.
 
Supporters might not effectively represent a religion. They might hold a belief that can be torn apart by fellow worshippers - that's how in-fights start. It's all down to interpretation.
Whittle down all the trappings, the assignment of authority, the self-maintaining of power ... most religions have a core of good sense.
Just because worshippers are shitty people, doesn't make all religions shitty.
 
Stormkhan said:
It's all down to interpretation.
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This is exactly why Abrahamic religions constantly attack each other over the last 2500 years. Let's compare:

Judaism: God, Moses, Old Testament. Intolerant of other religions, despite their religion being pretty much the same as the other 2

Christianity: God, Jesus, New Testament. Intolerant of other religions, despite their religion being pretty much the same as the other 2

Islam: God, Mohammed, Koran. Intolerant of other religions, despite their religion being pretty much the same as the other 2

And none of them can get along, despite the fact that all 3 pretty much follow the same template.
 
At my school - non-denominal - we had no chapel but a room set aside for personal contemplation. Religious studies were, largely, an examination of many different faiths as we had many different nations in the students. I say largely because it was the dumping ground for one teacher who should've retired before becoming senile. Unlike other teachers in the subject, his 'classes' consisted of him droning out excerpts from the New Testament. We didn't care - we used his classes to gossip, play boardgames, catch up on homework. He just didn't care.
 
Aydee_Aitchdee said:
At the risk of offending anyone (actually, I don't care if I offend anyone as much as I care more about not getting kicked/banned by the mods) but here's my 2 cents.

I think there are many people who are happy to hum along without having a belief in a higher power without having to parade it up and down the street, list it on their wikipedia page, put it in their bio on social media, etc etc.

But there are many, many more people that wear a badge that says ATHIEST in big, bold neon letters so they can proclaim their superiority over the peasants who are so low class as to gasp believe in a higher power or worse yet, they toddle off to social media to make it a more visible part of their identity.

Conversely

I think there are many people who are happy to hum along with their faith and their beliefs without having to parade it up and down the street, list it on their wikipedia page, put it in their bio on social media, etc etc.

But there are many, many more people that wear a badge that says CHRISTAN OR JEW OR ISLAMIC in big, bold neon letters so they can proclaim their superiority over the peasants who are so low class as to gasp not believe in a higher power, or worse yet, they toddle off to social media to make it a more visible part of their identity.


The bottom line is, no matter what you believe, it is no more important nor less important as anyone else's belief and there'd be a lot fewer problems if people realized their beliefs go no farther than them.
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That's vegans isn't it?
 
Floyd1 said:
That's vegans isn't it?
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Hmmm, let's see?

I think there are many people who are happy to graze on vegetable products without having to parade up and down the street bleating it out for the masses, list it on their wikipedia page, or put it in their bio on social media, etc etc.

But there are many, many more people that wear a badge that says I AM VEGAN HOW DARE YOU EAT MEAT?!?! in big, bold neon letters so they can proclaim their superiority over the peasants who are so low class as to gasp eat a hamburger or worse yet, they frisk on over to social media to make it a more visible part of their identity.

Yes, you may have a point there :D
 
Aydee_Aitchdee said:
Hmmm, let's see?

I think there are many people who are happy to graze on vegetable products without having to parade up and down the street bleating it out for the masses, list it on their wikipedia page, or put it in their bio on social media, etc etc.

But there are many, many more people that wear a badge that says I AM VEGAN HOW DARE YOU EAT MEAT?!?! in big, bold neon letters so they can proclaim their superiority over the peasants who are so low class as to gasp eat a hamburger or worse yet, they frisk on over to social media to make it a more visible part of their identity.

Yes, you may have a point there :D
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It's ok. MrsF is one and I rib her all the time about how 'she never talks about it.'
 
Maybe people talk about their preferences because they hope to meet others who are the same? Not at all the same thing as atheism & veganism, I know, but I hardly ever meet autistic people; when I do, it's a relief to have something in common with another person.
 
Steven said:
Maybe people talk about their preferences because they hope to meet others who are the same? Not at all the same thing as atheism & veganism, I know, but I hardly ever meet autistic people; when I do, it's a relief to have something in common with another person.
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I think it's more a matter of how heavy handed you are with it. It's normal to look to forge a bond with someone over a shared interest but occasionally people, in their zeal, often create an uncomfortable situation by bringing it up again and again to someone who doesn't welcome it. It goes for religion, politics, sex, food, drugs and pretty much everything else in life. :)
 
Up until the 2000s it was very rare to meet a fellow atheist. Love and hate them but Dawkins et all got things kicking. At the very least to promote opposition as in "yes we're atheists but we're not like *those* atheists."

That said I have much worse issues with theists in my life. Studying biology in college we had to tiptoe around evolution to not offend anyone's religious feelings.
And we still had the class interrupted by sermons about how evolution was wrong and part of the downfall of civilization.
I'm a straight man but having friends who are various types of not straight has caused me to overhear or be involved with some very disturbing claims. And recently in our (American) politics they're back to that old canard trying to link homosexuality and pedophilia.
While there's an attempt to muddy the waters by claiming that atheists can be "pro-life" too, women are being denied life saving abortions because of Christian views on life beginning at conception, and everything that follows being part of gods plan.
For that token that women "should know their place"
The guy currently third in line for the presidency of the president and vice president are unable to fulfill their duties believes these things and that the Earth is than 6000 years old.
Those are some of the issues directly related to their religious beliefs, which are held as fundamentalist Christian, without going into the knock on effects.
So sure, people who make atheism their identity can be annoying. I can get behind that, though I'd point out there are entire religious organizations where "I'm Christian!" is sorta the point.

I'm much more frustrated with how Christians affect my day to day life than a relatively few annoying atheists though.
 
Aydee_Aitchdee said:
It goes for religion, politics, sex, food, drugs and pretty much everything else in life. :)
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I'd point out that for a not insignificant number of people politics isn't something they can avoid. Religious backed politics can and does affect their job, their health, who they marry, and so on. Or that of someone they know and/or care about.
"Look I know they're calling you and those like you pedophiles and putting your marriage at risk, and making it so if your sister has an ectopic pregnancy she can either flee the state or die. But have you considered you're too zealous about it?"
 
It would be something if such politicians were genuinely Christian in spirit, instead of merely using their supposed faith to snare voters.
 
There's a tendency to make politicians cynical and savvy manipulators of the faith of their constituents.
But I tend to think that with some exceptions they're as genuine in their faith as their constituents. They're leaning into the same faith their constituents hold, not pushing it into a new direction.
 
Shadowsot said:
There's a tendency to make politicians cynical and savvy manipulators of the faith of their constituents.
But I tend to think that with some exceptions they're as genuine in their faith as their constituents. They're leaning into the same faith their constituents hold, not pushing it into a new direction.
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I think it depends on whether such Christians are either of the Old Testament 'fire and brimstone' mentality, or else the New Testament 'God is love' mindset. Unfortunately for all, it seems the former is eminent in politics; it's too often focused on barely-disguised hate, superiority, and vengeance.
 
Most 'professional' politicians will use any means they have to get on, do their job etc.
If they are a genuine believer then nothing stops them from using it - after all, it doesn't conflict with the faith. If they're not sincere, it still pays to pretend to be one.
Look at Jacob Reeks-Smug. His declared profound belief in the Catholic Church doesn't conflict with his right-wing politics. It doesn't make Catholicism right-wing.
 
Steven said:
I think it depends on whether such Christians are either of the Old Testament 'fire and brimstone' mentality, or else the New Testament 'God is love' mindset. Unfortunately for all, it seems the former is eminent in politics; it's too often focused on barely-disguised hate, superiority, and vengeance.
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I mean the New Testament has plenty of nasty stuff in there as well. It's where we get the conception of Hell. Remarrying is the same as adultery. Forbids women from teaching or having authority over a man, and to remain silent.

You can agree on the meaning of the statement but Jesus did state that not on jot or tittle of the Old Testament was changed. The old laws still apply.
I can to a degree emphasize with Christian theists who preach to try to save sinners from hell. If you thought someone was going to burn in hell for all eternity you'd be pretty adamant about "saving them from a godless lifestyle as well.
 
Steven said:
I think it depends on whether such Christians are either of the Old Testament 'fire and brimstone' mentality, or else the New Testament 'God is love' mindset. Unfortunately for all, it seems the former is eminent in politics; it's too often focused on barely-disguised hate, superiority, and vengeance.
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That's a bizarre view for those fundamentalists to take when, to most Christians, the New Testament clearly supersedes the Old.
The (in)famous "eye for an eye" statement in Exodus is totally reversed by the gospel of Matthew for example.
Perhaps one or two other religions would benefit from their own new testaments?
 
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Let's face it, there are millions of humans that want to tell you what to do and believe, how to do it, and when.

Logic won't work with them because it is a mind set that gives them their jollies for the day.

Don't point out the fallacies of their system, just walk away. And if they follow you, haranguing you about your Godless lifestyle - resist the desire to smack 'em in the chops.
 
Mungoman said:
Let's face it, there are millions of humans that want to tell you what to do and believe, how to do it, and when.

Logic won't work with them because it is a mind set that gives them their jollies for the day.

Don't point out the fallacies of their system, just walk away. And if they follow you, haranguing you about your Godless lifestyle - resist the desire to smack 'em in
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Well it's hard to ignore when they hold public office.

blessmycottonsocks said:
That's a bizarre view for those fundamentalists to take when, to most Christians, the New Testament clearly supersedes the Old.
The (in)famous "eye for and eye" statement in Exodus is totally reversed by the gospel of Matthew for example.
Perhaps one or two other religions would benefit from their own new testaments?
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It's not that bizarre. According to Jesus:
For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle shall in any wise pass from the law till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:18
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It just depends on how you interpret fulfilled in that part.
Liberal Christians believe that Jesus full filled the law so they no longer all apply.
Fundamentalists don't, and are waiting for the end times.
 
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