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Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD): Compendium Thread

Frideswide said:
have you noticed that when "they" have a close relationship with an animal it's admirable, kind, loyal and so on. When /we/ do it it becomes pathologised :(
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The types who think that demanding, expecting, and deserving 'unconditional love' from their pets is mutually-beneficial behaviour rather than what it often is: entitlement.
 
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Some pretty amazing things in this thread lately, and unfortunately not all in a good way.

Many years ago, Ms Popper and I lived on a ranch in another mountain town. Our dog seemed to think he had died and gone to heaven. There were about a dozen horses on the place, some belonging to the owner and some that were boarded there. We rented a room in the old 1880s ranch house, sharing it with several other people. The owner participated in a program for the residents at a local group home for people with severe physical and neurological problems, most of them being young adults. It was an interesting non-profit put together by a group of local people.

Every Thursday evening, weather and season permitting, a group of five or six of the "kids" would show up at the ranch for some horseback riding. Most of us tenants would help out with the rides. It seemed to be the highlight of the week for most of them. It was really interesting watching them prepare the horses for the ride, help saddle them, and mount up. Each horse and rider was led by one of us volunteers because I don't think the kids would have been able to handle them by themselves. The horses were nearly always docile and patient, even the more, ah, spirited of the beasts. We'd go a mile or two around the back roads near the ranch, and then back to the barn to tend the horses and put everything away. The interactions between the horses and the riders was fascinating. Everyone seemed to get an awful lot out of the arrangement.

The animal shelter refusing to allow autistic people to adopt dogs is so sad. Some people just don't have a clue. I'm glad they got sued.
 
Steven said:
Plus: having a pet surely promotes the growth of empathy; a quality that autistic people are routinely & almost gratuitously accused of lacking.
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As far as I'm aware, autism - and it's extensions - cannot be cured. Some autistics, such as myself, have empathy and some do not. Is empathy a 'learned' trait? My stepson hasn't very much - he's 'learned' what is expected of him in some situations.
I fully agree that pets are a great help with the condition, even if it only teaches people coping mechanisms such as 'learning' appropriate responses and behaviour. In my experience growing up, I always felt an outsider because I couldn't understand people's reactions and emotional responses. I learned that this is what is expected and learned how to mimic it.
This is most evident with grief. I suffer it but it's alien to me to openly show it. I just don't feel like crying or being miserable. I am sad, and unhappy, but inside I miss the person but have completely accepted that they are dead. That's it - awful but what can you do but move on?
 
Stormkhan said:
As far as I'm aware, autism - and it's extensions - cannot be cured. Some autistics, such as myself, have empathy and some do not. Is empathy a 'learned' trait? My stepson hasn't very much - he's 'learned' what is expected of him in some situations.
I fully agree that pets are a great help with the condition, even if it only teaches people coping mechanisms such as 'learning' appropriate responses and behaviour. In my experience growing up, I always felt an outsider because I couldn't understand people's reactions and emotional responses. I learned that this is what is expected and learned how to mimic it.
This is most evident with grief. I suffer it but it's alien to me to openly show it. I just don't feel like crying or being miserable. I am sad, and unhappy, but inside I miss the person but have completely accepted that they are dead. That's it - awful but what can you do but move on?
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so much to appreciate and recognise in this @Stormkhan ! :oldm:

Yes, empathy can be learned/recognised, as can the desire to show it - two separate things.

I find the division of "empathy" into three modes of experience helpful when I'm working on it with people. Caveat: everyone is an individual, you or your autistic (or NT!) may well not fit this :)

* Cognitive
* Compassionate
* Emotional
 
It truly is a spectrum, isn't it? For instance (per a discussion yesterday), I'm fine with receiving hugs and handshakes...yet cannot stand liquid being on my hands. More saliently, my parents were my heroes...yet at their funerals I was happy(!?) Small wonder if ASC seems unfathomable to some neurotypical people.
 
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That's the problem with many 'labels'. 'Labels' rely on a collection of shared characteristics and life isn't so convenient. The issue is that as more characteristics are 'taken under the mantle' of a label, E.G. Autistic Spectrum, the more people roll their eyes and wonder about 'bandwagon jumping'.
Labels are usually used to help the perspective of those not involved.
 
Stormkhan said:
That's the problem with many 'labels'. 'Labels' rely on a collection of shared characteristics and life isn't so convenient. The issue is that as more characteristics are 'taken under the mantle' of a label, E.G. Autistic Spectrum, the more people roll their eyes and wonder about 'bandwagon jumping'.
Labels are usually used to help the perspective of those not involved.
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Labels are used for people to access funding.

I would never see a person is a label. Everyone is different regardless. Imo it is other people who want to use labels to separate themselves from those they don't want to know or understand.

I am totally happy to see that the owner of the dog rescue was fined.
 
Stormkhan said:
As far as I'm aware, autism - and it's extensions - cannot be cured. Some autistics, such as myself, have empathy and some do not. Is empathy a 'learned' trait? My stepson hasn't very much - he's 'learned' what is expected of him in some situations.
I fully agree that pets are a great help with the condition, even if it only teaches people coping mechanisms such as 'learning' appropriate responses and behaviour. In my experience growing up, I always felt an outsider because I couldn't understand people's reactions and emotional responses. I learned that this is what is expected and learned how to mimic it.
This is most evident with grief. I suffer it but it's alien to me to openly show it. I just don't feel like crying or being miserable. I am sad, and unhappy, but inside I miss the person but have completely accepted that they are dead. That's it - awful but what can you do but move on?
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I've met many people who are not apparently autistic but have little or zero empathy. Almost A.I. like in their interactions with others, the lack of this trait is clearly not confined to those with autism. I've always been interested in the reasons for the behaviour of these characters which I suspect are many and varied, but I've guessed it's partly due to some sort of self preservation type reaction.
 
PeteS said:
I've met many people who are not apparently autistic but have little or zero empathy. Almost A.I. like in their interactions with others, the lack of this trait is clearly not confined to those with autism. I've always been interested in the reasons for the behaviour of these characters which I suspect are many and varied, but I've guessed it's partly due to some sort of self preservation type reaction.
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*nodding vigorously* clinically it can be a reaction to trauma. Oddly, it can also be a reaction to how you experienced childhood - which is a now debunked explanation for autism :rollingw: :
 
It's strange, and mystifying: I'm convinced that how we were raised makes a massive difference in our reactions & relation to 'the outside world'; yet it's apparently not the whole story. So much of my life and personality can be readily explained by Autism...and yet not everything (as I'd hoped, because I think it's understandably common for autists to really desire an overall answer - an explanation - regarding our difficulties and 'uniqueness', for the want of a more fitting word.

EDIT: Now, I think this post only reveals my ignorance of the science regarding ASC. After all, it's not as if the experiences of life make us autistic.
 
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Frideswide said:
*nodding vigorously* clinically it can be a reaction to trauma. Oddly, it can also be a reaction to how you experienced childhood - which is a now debunked explanation for autism :rollingw: :
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Ah, but my experience as a child being starved of affection didn't affect my empathy - it created an unfamiliarity with family affection.
 
I could be wrong, as I am not autistic, but I would think people with autism are empathic, but don't show empathy in the same way.

Again, it boils down to actually knowing different people and understanding them. It's not the person with autism who should be expected to communicate as others do. The door swings both ways, as the saying goes.
 
brownmane said:
I could be wrong, as I am not autistic, but I would think people with autism are empathic, but don't show empathy in the same way.

Again, it boils down to actually knowing different people and understanding them. It's not the person with autism who should be expected to communicate as others do. The door swings both ways, as the saying goes.
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Precisely this! Then you get autistics who are overwhelmed with empathy. And those who have one or more of the various types of empathy but whp struggle to put a name to feelings - and so say no when asked if they experience it.
 
Heh.
I'm doing an OU degree course, and after the assessment of my last assignment came back, I told my tutor that I was struggling to correctly interpret the questions. No matter how I read or re-read them I was mistaken in what my answers were expected to be. I also tend to be brief - I'm very conscious of waffle. At the end I wondered if this was an effect of my Asperger's.

He came back with a nice and helpful reply. It pointed me to several facilities - both within and outside the university - which gave support and advice to those with the condition. He also mentioned that I could (if I liked) 'register' my condition with the university. This meant that a few 'allowances' might be made in my submissions - we're judged and marked by exactly the same criteria as other students but there may be some 'mitigating circumstances' in individual module marking. He also suggested - absolutely cracking - that if I have any doubt over what is expected of me in my answer, I should contact him voicing my interpretation and he can set me right.

He finished by saying that my 'revelation' to him was utterly private, that he'd mention it to no one; some people don't like to admit to being on the spectrum and no one is forced or expected to. I replied, thanking him for his help and I've no problem with 'outing' myself as being on the spectrum; I told him that having lived for almost 60 years with it that it just didn't occur to me to mention it - I didn't foresee any issues.
 
Great news, @Stormkhan.:bthumbup: Schools nowadays do recognize that people do not all learn in the same manner, and now have a duty to accommodate for those who have a specific difficulties. But they can only do this if you report it.

One of my nieces who has dyslexia, learned the hard way to not underestimate how much of her learning comprehension was affected by her dyslexia. She'd had tutoring in high school for her dyslexia. She tried to complete a college program for vet tech and believed that she could do it with no accommodations.

One of the courses, medical terminology is heavily reliant on spelling. She failed. Because she failed this particular course, she was not able to continue the program. She does now realize that it was her mistake not to ask for accommodation.

Never be afraid to ask for what is available to assist you with your learning.
 
My step-son (who also has Asperger's) managed to attain a BSc. in Forensic computing. He wondered if he might've done better - easier - if he'd admitted to his condition. Now he's doing a Masters ... and he's declared it to the uni. :)
 
I think I'm coming to the realisation that I'm autistic. Professionals I've dealt with so far seem split on it, and I'm still waiting for an official assessment (it's been years), but it seems increasingly likely. It certain would explain why I'm so different to others.

I wonder what my life would have been like if I had realised this about myself when I was still young?
 
Delightful said:
I wonder what my life would have been like if I had realised this about myself when I was still young?
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It's an interesting thought-game but consider this: you've made it in your life with it but not knowing about it. How much would your behaviour have changed?
In my day (Yeah, I know what that sounds like) I might've been diagnosed with it but the society around me wouldn't have taken anything like this into account. Their behaviour and my behaviour wouldn't have changed. This is why I didn't bother to 'claim' it and register with it to my university; I honestly didn't know it would've been a factor in my education. It wasn't as a child - I had to fit in to the world and not hope the world fitted me in.
It was mind-blowing to my parents when it was realised I was hyperactive (not considered part of autism etc.) ... but to them (an old-fashioned couple) it explained my behaviour; it didn't change their approach to me.
 
Delightful said:
I wonder what my life would have been like if I had realised this about myself when I was still young?
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Oh, now, that's a question I recognise, having asked it myself over and over these past few years, ever since people close to me raised the possibility/likelihood of my own neurodivergence. I'm trying to rephrase the idea along the lines of, however difficult the first five decades of my life were, I really want to make the most of the next five, by allowing myself to play to my strengths and avoid as much as possible those situations that tend to highlight my weaknesses. In previous decades, I tried to struggle through, at great cost to myself and those around me.

Granted, I don't really need a diagnosis to help me do that, but given that I think AD(H?)D is in the mix along with ASD, I'll need an official verdict if I want to get on the stimulants (which I really, really do, given that my focus is absolutely shot).
 
I think the biggest differences would have been that:

a) I wouldn't have been so surprised by, and frustrated with, other people (up until now I never knew why they were so weird, why they didn't seem to have the same thoughts and feelings and reactions to things I did);

b) I would have stopped trying, painfully and futilely, to change certain things about myself but rather would have just accepted them and made others accommodate my eccentricities

c) I would have limited my life goals, and had more suitable goals in mind relating to relationships, work, housing, and so on.

d) I would have been less of a victim, knowing now how vulnerable I actually am to others
 
Frideswide said:
eh? don't understand this one, sorry :(
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I don't/can't cope well with certain things - like work, household chores and admin, normal friendships and romantic relationship expectations etc.

If I had realised this earlier, and realised that I couldn't change or mature myself out if it, then I could have avoided lots of issues that made my life quite miserable. Now I am trying to get myself into a life situation that is less painful for me, but it would have been great to have done this decades ago.
 
Delightful said:
I don't/can't cope well with certain things - like work, household chores and admin, normal friendships and romantic relationship expectations etc.

If I had realised this earlier, and realised that I couldn't change or mature myself out if it, then I could have avoided lots of issues that made my life quite miserable. Now I am trying to get myself into a life situation that is less painful for me, but it would have been great to have done this decades ago.
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got it now! thank you :oldm:

not that I get totally confused very eaasily or anything :)
 
Stormkhan said:
It's an interesting thought-game but consider this: you've made it in your life with it but not knowing about it. How much would your behaviour have changed?
In my day (Yeah, I know what that sounds like) I might've been diagnosed with it but the society around me wouldn't have taken anything like this into account. Their behaviour and my behaviour wouldn't have changed. This is why I didn't bother to 'claim' it and register with it to my university; I honestly didn't know it would've been a factor in my education. It wasn't as a child - I had to fit in to the world and not hope the world fitted me in.
It was mind-blowing to my parents when it was realised I was hyperactive (not considered part of autism etc.) ... but to them (an old-fashioned couple) it explained my behaviour; it didn't change their approach to me.
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I am always of the mind that if there were a possibility of changing something that has happened earlier in a person's life, that the person would not be who they are today.

However, the thing that I can see that may have helped people in their growth and understanding of themselves is that with what was known, some of the learning how to cope with specific aspects of autism may have come to them earlier in life and have made some experiences easier and more understandable to them.

People around you may or may not change, though I think some who gained insight might have learned how to respond to you and to support you.

Though my thought process relates to what is known today. All you have to do is start at the beginning of this thread to see what the understanding of autism was and the prejudices were just 20 years ago.

When I first started hearing about it was mid 70's and some of the practices to "cure" autism were harmful. So to be diagnosed in some of our decades in life would not have been beneficial.
 
Steven said:
Sometimes I log-in here and feel overwhelmed (and helpless) by the number of updated topics. Even those I'm especially interested in present a challenge just to engage with by reading, let alone by contributing.
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Here's what I do...
I click on the What's New > New Posts menu option.
This gives a list of all the Fortean threads that have new stuff (but excludes the Chat and Mainstream News Stories threads).
From the list, I have a look at only the ones that interest me.
Then I click on the Forums > Mark forums read menu option to clear the list.
 
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