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Buffy Poisoning Young Minds!

Gullible teens

I picked up a copy of "Teen Witch" that had been left on a coffee table at my local bookshop - clearly aimed at the "Buffy" generation from its glamorous-teen cover. I'm sure the author's not really called "Silver Ravenwolf" and possibly has been reading too many Dungeons and Dragons novels.

I'm disturbed by stuff like this, not because of its new-age pseudo-religious content, but by the fact that it's clearly aimed at indoctrinating teens in its patronising "this is fact" way. Anyone who takes this seriously, indeed any religious crap seriously, needs to take some science lessons and get out in the daylight more.

I'm equally disturbed that modern society has reached the point where we seem to be going backwards into a stone age of non-questioning belief in these ritual-based cults, particularly based on these teen-witchcraft trash like "Charmed", "Buffy", "Sabrina the Teenage Witch" and "The Craft".

The fact that this new-age wicca seems to be all squeaky-clean and boy-bandish seems to make me question its origins in the earthy and filthy practice of old witchcraft. Is it just being watered down so it doesn't offend mainstream christian society and gets a few token converts from Buffy fans who want to scare their friends at Pyjama parties ?

Witchcraft as a toy to get you what you want ? Surely if it deals with power then it's not safe to give to a stupid and easily-influenced kid.

Why are there so many "witchy teen" series ? Is this just a stupid new way of dealing with teenage angst now that Goth music seems to have died a death?

Will they grow out of it ?

What the hell has this squeaky-clean, peachy-keen boy-band wicca "religion" got to do with real witchcraft ?
 
Absolutely nowt, Guru.

A comparison... a rather nasty "dictionary of witchcraft" one member of my family found in a charity shop has love spells that involve threading a needle through the fatty part of a dead man's leg(!). A new-agey one someone I knew bought from a high street bookshop involves nothing more macabre than wrapping ribbons around candles.

My point isn't, of course, that teens should be threading dead men's legs. Or that these new-agey books are dangerous, cos they're not (you can't do any harm wrapping ribbons around candles, as long as you watch the hot wax!).

My point is that they have nothing to do with "real" witchcraft at all, but, just as Guru_saj says, are presented as the truth and a kind of bland, pastel-coloured religion.

It's not harmful in the sense it'll lead to anything dangerous happening (and is in fact far less dangerous than the "real" stuff!), but is harmful in shaping young people's knowledge and attitudes to Fortean phenomena.
 
So, unless I'm missing the point, it's about the difference between mass market entertainment (incorporating the 'frowned upon' element) and the 'reality' of alternative religion/beliefs/whatever ?

And the way modern youth are seemingly unable to tell the difference?

(As a geriatric 40+, I'd like to know - are today's teenagers really that thick?)
 
Yes

DerekH said:
So, unless I'm missing the point, it's about the difference between mass market entertainment (incorporating the 'frowned upon' element) and the 'reality' of alternative religion/beliefs/whatever ?

And the way modern youth are seemingly unable to tell the difference?

(As a geriatric 40+, I'd like to know - are today's teenagers really that thick?)
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Teenagers (or some of them at least) have always been that thick. I went to school with girls who who used a whole can of hairspray on their hair over the course of a single school day. Of course that was the eighties and things were diferent then.

Teenagers have always done dumb things, Beetlemania, flaires, New Romantic bands, punk, pericings.

Cujo
 
Take it up the Backstreet Boys

It's not necessarily a lack of intelligence that's the issue, it's more a question of apathy and the willingness of this generation to sit back and have their entertainment drip-fed. Of course, this will eventually manifest in a lack of intelligence as regions of the brain not dedicated to watching Buffy or listening to the Backstreet Boys will atrophy in future generations.

Cujo - you mention (perhaps half-joking) things like punk and piercings to show how dumb people are. I think you're on the wrong track here. I used to know a number of punks / goths / bikers etc. and - with very few exceptions - they were very intelligent people, way above the norm. Give them the Pepsi challenge against your average Buffy fan and they'll come out on top every time. Piercings may be a fad entertained by kids when they can be bothered to rise from the couch, but in themselves they are no indicator of intelligence. I personally wear earrings and have 5 big tattoos, but my IQ is *** (OK, so I'm not that pompous).

Many teenagers today are totally lacking in drive and believe that education is for losers; they have no hobbies and no interests and instead they sit around and absorb whatever media crap happens to be flavour of the day. That's why our TV programmes are garbage and our music either diluted Euro-pap or ass-pounding gangsta rap.
 
Re: Take it up the Backstreet Boys

Mr. Bingo said:
That's why our TV programmes are garbage and our music either diluted Euro-pap or ass-pounding gangsta rap.
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And don't forget... Toploader! :eek!!!!: :eek!!!!: :eek!!!!:
 
Re: Re: Take it up the Backstreet Boys

Evilsprout said:
And don't forget... Toploader!
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Yeah, dancing in the f**king moonlight. What makes that song worse is that it reminds me of Jamie Oliver... :devil:
 
Mr Bingo,

I didn't mean that punks are stupid, or that peirced/tattoed people are stupid. Hell, I'm saving for my first tatto at the moment. I'm talking about the punk wannabes and all those girls who went out and got their lip peirced becase posh spice apeared to have had hers done.

I notice you don't defend the Beetles and their serious fans. But just in case I'll point out that I love the Beetles' music. It was Beetlemania I was having a pop at.

Cujo
 
Cujo said:
...I'm talking about the punk wannabes and all those girls who went out and got their lip peirced becase posh spice apeared to have had hers done.
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In that case I agree 100% :D
 
rynner said:
The Wizard Harry Potter has upset another christian:

http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/n...tt24.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/09/24/ixhomef.html

(This article also mentioned Halloween which is my wedding anniversary. I should have known it wouldn't last - the wife flew off on her broomstick.)

PS: Not all of this post is true.
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"Jesus for me is not just Sundays," preaches Mr. Grant, who therefore rather bizarrely declines to open his shop on Sundays. He goes on to say "Avoid not only that which is evil, but that which appears evil." In which case, I would recommend that all parents avoid Mr. Grant's shops, as I suspect his blantant censorship has been influenced by the Baphomet himself.
 
I've never seen Harry Potter use a ouija board, or it even be mentioned. To be fair, he says he likes the books, and he has the right to sell whatever he wants in his own shops. Some toy shops sell ouija boards as board games, some wouldn't dream of it. We all draw our own moral lines in the sand according to what we believe is right and what isn't, and he's standing by his beliefs even though he knows he will be the one to lose out by it. I say fair play to him, at least he's reasonable about it.

I do take issue with one of the statements of the guy who desn't agree with the owner:

The Rev Tony Whatmough, of St Mary Redcliffe Church, Bristol, who is also a school governor said:
I would much rather kids grappled with Harry Potter than all the things happening in America
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I don't think we should wrap children in cotton wool and hide them from reality. What happened and is happening is of major importance to the world, and if children want to know about it (and, probably if they don't), they should. It should be discussed in a way that they understand, yes, and I don't think that they should be exposed to things like the footage of people jumping out of the towers, but nobody should pretend that nothing happened, and refuse to discuss it. Children can be remarkably emotionally strong and can deal with complex issues, if presented in the right way, and I don't think enough people give them enough credit. Who knows, it may even help towards creating a more tolerant society.
 
trollface said:
I don't think we should wrap children in cotton wool and hide them from reality. What happened and is happening is of major importance to the world, and if children want to know about it (and, probably if they don't), they should. It should be discussed in a way that they understand, yes, and I don't think that they should be exposed to things like the footage of people jumping out of the towers, but nobody should pretend that nothing happened, and refuse to discuss it.
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Sadly, there was an item on today's news about how many children in NY have been seriously disturbed by their direct experience of the disaster, and some of them saw the people jumping from the towers for real.

Let's hope they get the support they need. If books or TV can scar someone for life, experiencing real horror at a young age could cause long-term trauma.
 
That doesn't surprise me in the least. I'm probably the least squeamish person I know, and I only saw the footage of one person jumping once, and that still disturbs me (sometimes to the point of tears) when I think about it. Lets just hope that it makes them stronger people in the long run, and that no more lives are ruined by this than can be helped.
 
Hi, trollface. You are the same guy from snopes, are you not?

[subliminal message]visit ul.bryanbird.com[/subliminal message]

I've managed to avoid the live-action WTC footage through an utter refusal to watch television news, but just hearing what had happened traumatized me for days. My imagination is too durned good.

There are now security guards at "my" kids' hebrew school who were not there before.

Re: Buffy. Comments have been made about the intelligence of the "average Buffy viewer". Well, I am a Buffy viewer and a 33 year old college-educated published author. I love the show precisely because it's an intelligent, well written show. It doesn't cater to the lowest common denominator lilke a lot of TV shows, but throws in literary and old pop culture references that this hyposthetical "average viewer" just plain wouldn't get. It's clearly aimed at a smarter demographic.

As to its inspiring kids to experiement with the occult - kids experiment. That's what they do.

Nonny
 
Nonny Mouse said:
Hi, trollface. You are the same guy from snopes, are you not?

[subliminal message]visit ul.bryanbird.com[/subliminal message]
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Hiya, Nonny, I am, indeed (the number of commas just used and the resorting to brackets should clinch it, if you think I'm an imposter). I did actually say "hi" to you in a thread the other day, but I couldn't tell you which one, so I don't know if you saw it. I'll check the url out; I assume it's the temporary snopes board that I've just seen mentioned in another thread.

I've managed to avoid the live-action WTC footage through an utter refusal to watch television news, but just hearing what had happened traumatized me for days. My imagination is too durned good.
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It was one of those rare cases where the footage was more horrible than my imagination. I could handle watching the towers fall live, I could handle hearing descriptions of people jumping, and footage of the wreckages, but that one image is still with me, and I doubt it's going soon.

There are now security guards at "my" kids' hebrew school who were not there before.
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It's a shame that they may be needed, but it's good that they're there. It's a shame that people feel that they have to descend to the same level of prejudice that the people that they're supposed to be fighting against have.

It doesn't cater to the lowest common denominator lilke a lot of TV shows, but throws in literary and old pop culture references that this hyposthetical "average viewer" just plain wouldn't get
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I think it does cater to the lowest common denominator, but not only to them. Sort of like The Muppets or The Simpsons the deeper, more subtle stuff is there, but the obvious stuff is also there. In other words, a very intelligently written prog. I'll see you on the temporary boards in a moment :).

[edit] No, I won't, I registered locally, it says I've got my password wrong, and it won't send it to me. Then again, this particular computer's being an arse at the moment, so I'm going to try again tomorrow.
 
he did say hi in a thread i saw it (or is it the new ul?lol)
cas,:D
 
Just a small point...

Sorry Moggadon, but

Christianity is the biggest cause of death and destruction this side of the extinction of the dinosaurs,
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Christianity?... Surely you mean malaria? killed half the people that have ever lived.
 
Mike Mystery......?

:rolleyes:

What I meant to say was that the biggest cause of death by man's hand. Death in the name of 'something' ie - god, sex, money etc......

My blood boils.......don't get me started ?

Moggadon
 
Aww, go on. But remember that half the world is currently bending over backwards to point out that just 'cos terrorists claim to Muslims it doesn't mean that Islam is a violent religion at all in any sense, it simply means that they're not proper followers of Islam.
Any chance of Christians getting the same consideration over the crusades, the inquisition and so on and on?
 
We could generalise:

All religious people are good (except for the bad ones).

On second thoughts, leave out the word 'religious'.

On third thoughts,

Everything is good (apart from bad things).

I think this has advanced the discussion considerably...
 
rynner said:
On third thoughts,

Everything is good (apart from bad things).
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...And, of course, what's good for me may not be so good for you....

Yes, we're getting somewhere.

(I didn't know 'Triton' meant thrice-cynical ;) )
 
Sadly, Triton is (amongst other things) a reference to my weight...
 
Ha Ha Ha !!!

The Christian ideology of conquer and destroy ( or conquer and assimilate ) has caused the biggest rifts in history. The complete lack of understanding that Christianity and Islam share is probably at the root of the problems were experiencing today. Both ideologies are to blame, none more than the other. A little bit of understanding goes along way, the opposite way in fact to the rhetoric each side keeps firing off.

Moggadon.
( I do not claim to be an expert on either of these two ideologies )
 
Buffy: Series 8, is now available from Dark Horse Comics

I've just been watching the featurettes on the Season 4 DVD with 'Hush' (The Gentelmen) on it. Apparently some of the establishing shots for 'The Initiative' lair, under Finn's Sunnydale U. frat house, were made in The Skunkworks.

Admittedly, they used aluminized mylar, big balloons and clever lighting, to decorate the service pit, where once high tech grease monkeys probably used buckyball lubricants to oil stealth bomber undercarriages, to make it look more James Bond style impressive, but interesting, nonetheless.
 
[Guru_saj] I'm disturbed by stuff like this, not because of its new-age pseudo-religious content, but by the fact that it's clearly aimed at indoctrinating teens in its patronising "this is fact" way
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Do you read other teen magazines? I wonder how the content and tone compares. Given the frequent bouts of controversy perhaps they are much the same.

[evilsprout] My point is that they have nothing to do with "real" witchcraft at all
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What is real witchcraft? Come to that what is a witch? Yep, it's a another strand. These terms are all self defined within some cultural context. In many cultures the witch is completely unaware of that dimension of their person. Their identity may be revealed by another party. The previously un-selfaware witch may then be asked to lift their bewitchment (or they might get be stoned, burnt, hung etc).

[lostgirl] In our society still, there's the stigma to the word "witch,"
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Although the word "witch" has to be translated from the original language but in many cultures the witch is stigmatized. These are cultures where their religion has perhaps more in common with Wicca than Christianity.

[PiltdownMan] you hear these (urban legends?) about teenage "vampire cults" murdering people in America)
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Yes, in America these may be urban legends. However, in the rest of the world murders are committed in conection with witchcraft.

[Moggadon] Christianity, whatever the flavour you use, is regimented. There are books telling you what to do and how to do it
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How do these "user guides" differ from those on the other shelves of the Mind, Body and Spirit section of your local book shop?

Returning to the original question, is there any evidence that wtching BTVS leads people into harm's way?
 
Returning to the original question, is there any evidence that wtching BTVS leads people into harm's way?
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No. People do what they feel like. They deny what they choose to, believe what they choose to and will go to the way they are already inclined. If Buffy can push someone in the direction they were meant to go, then good for Buffy. Let them be liberated if they want to be.
 
I think there's a general trend towards paranormal shows aimed at the under 25s at least partly because most teenagers like to feel special, and because magical powers are really a much wider metaphor for the 'egotism' and changes that come with being a teenager.

Hence Buffy is often referred to as 'the chosen one' and her powers and understanding of herself and the world, as well as those of her friends, adapted and evolved througout the series.

I never knew anyone at my school who really believed that the stuff shown on 'Buffy' was in any way real or possible to imitate in real life. The fact is that it wasn't as patronizing as Sabrina sometimes was, had plenty of quirk factor, wasn't afraid to take the mickey (remember the musical version), and at times showed real teen issues in an overblown paranormal way.

There were some girls in my school who got into voodoo and wicca, probably in part due to shows like Buffy, but there were others who ALREADY believed in eternal life after death and that chain letters really could kill if not passed on.....
 
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