Devil's Footprints / Hoofprints

[QuaziWashboard]

And goddamnit, who's to say some localhunters/trappers didn't express their quite valid opinion at the time only to be dismissed by a hysterical and sensationalist media?

Good point. I'm inclined to agree.

It is a good point, but it's equaly noteworthy that no record (that we know of) of any local hunters/trappers views at the time is forthcoming. This may be because most of the local hunters/trappers at the time could have been poachers, and wouldn't want to draw attention to themselves. It could be equaly likely that some local hunters/trappers didn't express an opinion at the time.

 

[ghostdog19]

It is a good point, but it's equaly noteworthy that no record (that we know of) of any local hunters/trappers views at the time is forthcoming.

Perhaps for the very reason that ogopogo cites.

EDITED TO SHORTEN QUOTE

 

[QuaziWashboard]

It is a good point, but it's equaly noteworthy that no record (that we know of) of any local hunters/trappers views at the time is forthcoming.

Perhaps for the very reason that ogopogo cites.

EDITED TO SHORTEN QUOTE

Perhaps, or perhaps no record exists because of the reason I gave,... whatever. My point is, it makes no difference what the reason is, to all intents and purposes, no views of any hunter/trapper's were recorded, and in order for us to come up with a decent working theory as to what really happened in 1855, we can only deal simply with the facts that were recorded and try to explain them.

 

[Sthenno]

It'll make more sense once you sober up. Trust me.

Hmm I can spot a pattern developing here. Is there really any need to resort to abuse or sarcastic nonsense whenever people query your point of view? I’m sober as a judge, being at work, and I agree with Quazi’s sentiment – the text you have posted clearly doesn’t support your theory. To resort to questioning someone’s sobriety because they’re making a pretty bloody obvious observation is childish and counter-productive.

Back on topic, is it worth bearing in mind that national newspapers wouldn’t have been the only place the observations of local hunters etc. might have been recorded? I can see how the national media might dismiss the mundane in favour of the newsworthy (though many of them seemed to carry the suggestion the tracks were made by a badger) but the local press, I’d imagine, would have been interested in the testimony of local people. I might take a trip down to South Devon soon and have a trawl through the record offices to see what I can come up with.

 

[QuaziWashboard]

Back on topic, is it worth bearing in mind that national newspapers wouldn’t have been the only place the observations of local hunters etc. might have been recorded? I can see how the national media might dismiss the mundane in favour of the newsworthy (though many of them seemed to carry the suggestion the tracks were made by a badger) but the local press, I’d imagine, would have been interested in the testimony of local people. I might take a trip down to South Devon soon and have a trawl through the record offices to see what I can come up with.

I saw a program last night about big cats in Britain with this tracker guy from Africa who was studying some film footage of a Black Panther, when he suddenly said something that I thought was quite relevent to this case. He said that a wild cat walks slightly differently to a domesticated cat, placing it's back feet in the footprints of it's front feet. Then he went on to say that quite a lot of predatory wild creatures move in this way as it helps to keep down the noise of the footfalls.
That got me thinking, if a creature walked in such a way, it's tracks would look somewhat like a bipedal.
Which opens up the field of suspects quite a bit.

 

[Sthenno]

Beast of Exmoor on holiday?

 

[ogopogo3]

So, in your case for rabbits being responsible for the whole thing, you cite a web page that puts the whole thing down to lots of different creatures making tracks (a more likely scenario IMO) and then quote a section of that page that includes a newspaper report that basicaly says that it couldn't possibly be rabbits because the prints were 'alternate of each other like the steps of a man'?

It said ONE newspaper report. This must obviously be the same newspaper that said tracks were found on rooftops. Now you're dismissing all the other accounts out of hand? That's the problem with this case. It's a farrago of contradictory facts.

I'm not drunk, I'm simply having trouble understanding how you are supporting your claim of 'rabbits' by citing a web page that basicaly says it wasn't rabbits?

Oh, we're all drunks here. I use the term lovingly. That said, did you read the same article I did?

Once again:

As well, rabbits, hares, rats, and squirrels can leave hopping tracks that not only appear in a straight line but, with their four feet held together, "can form a pattern similar to a hoofmark"

How is this saying it wasn't rabbits? Seems to me that the author is leaving the door open for that very possibility.

 

[wembley8]

That got me thinking, if a creature walked in such a way, it's tracks would look somewhat like a bipedal.
Which opens up the field of suspects quite a bit.

I think the field is pretty wide anyway, given that we have:

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-17849133.html

Some drawings showed hoofmarks that were "plainly made by a pony-shoe" (Brown 1982), while others described tracks that were "cloven." Some reported "claws" and "toes" in the tracks (Brown 1982; Furneaux 1977).

By no means did all correspondents report tracks of exactly the same size and spacing. For example, the account published in The Times (London) of February 16, 1855, stated that the tracks varied from 1-1/2 to 2-1/2 inches in width, and while their spacing was "generally" eight inches (Gould 1928, 1964), other sources represented the stride as up to twice that distance (Dash 1994).

So we have something with a horse-type shoe; a cloven hoof; claws; and toes - which does suggest either inept observers or a multitude of different creatures.

Some of which may have been cats -

...there is ample evidence, in addition to the variety of track descriptions, that multiple creatures were involved. A number of cats, for example, were responsible for many of the tracks in one village, as was explained in 1923 by a woman who had been a young girl there in 1855. As Furneaux (1977) relates:

She recalled that the footprints were all over the town of Dawlish where
her father was Vicar. He and his curates, she said, carefully examined
the tracks which ran from the Vicarage to the vestry door, and came
to the conclusion that they had been made by the paw-marks of many cats which had been partly washed away by the slight thaw, and expanded into the shape resembling hoofmarks by the early-morning frost.

I recall part-thawed footprints being the apparent explanation for some mysterious yeti tracks a while back.

 

[QuaziWashboard]

So, in your case for rabbits being responsible for the whole thing, you cite a web page that puts the whole thing down to lots of different creatures making tracks (a more likely scenario IMO) and then quote a section of that page that includes a newspaper report that basicaly says that it couldn't possibly be rabbits because the prints were 'alternate of each other like the steps of a man'?

It said ONE newspaper report. This must obviously be the same newspaper that said tracks were found on rooftops. Now you're dismissing all the other accounts out of hand? That's the problem with this case. It's a farrago of contradictory facts.

There's quite a few mentions of the footprints being of a bipedal 'walking gait' all over the internetnet and in almost all reports on this case. That's the whole point behind this entire mystery, because people found what looked like bipedal hoof tracks in a 'staggered' or 'walking gait.' If the tracks that were found were of a hopping gate, all in a straight line, they'd have just said 'oh...it's a rabbit', and that would have been it. No newspaper reports, no opinions, no speculation for 150 years because there wouldn't have been a mystery in the first place.

I'm not drunk, I'm simply having trouble understanding how you are supporting your claim of 'rabbits' by citing a web page that basicaly says it wasn't rabbits?

Oh, we're all drunks here. I use the term lovingly.

Apology accepted.

That said, did you read the same article I did?

Yes I did, over and over again.

Once again:

As well, rabbits, hares, rats, and squirrels can leave hopping tracks that not only appear in a straight line but, with their four feet held together, "can form a pattern similar to a hoofmark"

How is this saying it wasn't rabbits? Seems to me that the author is leaving the door open for that very possibility.

Because it says 'appear in a straight line' when the tracks in question are reported as a 'walking gait' which is staggered.

 

[ogopogo3]

There's quite a few mentions of the footprints being of a bipedal 'walking gait' all over the internetnet and in almost all reports on this case. That's the whole point behind this entire mystery, because people found what looked like bipedal hoof tracks in a 'staggered' or 'walking gait.' If the tracks that were found were of a hopping gate, all in a straight line, they'd have just said 'oh...it's a rabbit', and that would have been it.

Funny, the first article I can remember reading about this case as a child went out of its way to state that the tracks were one directly in front of the other. It even provided illustrations showing such.

Because it says 'appear in a straight line' when the tracks in question are reported as a 'walking gait' which is staggered.

Having reread it, the linked article states there were accounts of both kinds of tracks.

 

[QuaziWashboard]

There's quite a few mentions of the footprints being of a bipedal 'walking gait' all over the internetnet and in almost all reports on this case. That's the whole point behind this entire mystery, because people found what looked like bipedal hoof tracks in a 'staggered' or 'walking gait.' If the tracks that were found were of a hopping gate, all in a straight line, they'd have just said 'oh...it's a rabbit', and that would have been it.

Funny, the first article I can remember reading about this case as a child went out of its way to state that the tracks were one directly in front of the other. It even provided illustrations showing such.

Maybe it's not such a good idea to judge something just off the first thing you read about it?
In nature, no creature on land naturaly walks with one foot directly in front of another (some birds come close, but there's always a slight stagger to the gait) so if you see this type of print in the snow, it's been caused by a hopping creature, like a rabbit, that's left a trail and the subsequent thawing of the snow has made it look like larger footprints.

Because it says 'appear in a straight line' when the tracks in question are reported as a 'walking gait' which is staggered.

Having reread it, the linked article states there were accounts of both kinds of tracks.

Now you're getting it. And now that we know that straight, one directly in front of another, tracks of prints are just rabbits or some other small hopping creature and are nothing remarkable, the question remains, what made the other tracks? That is the mysterious part of this whole case, the fact that these reports exist of tracks that looked like something bipedal with hooves and the fact that reports also state that these tracks were found to stop in front of walls and houses and continue on the other side and in some cases, footprints were found on the roofs of buildings.
The reports are all we have to go on. Parts of them, like reports of single file tracks, can be disregarded as 'unimportant' after applying a spot of investigating. Even quite a lot of the great lengths of footprints that go for miles between buildings can probably be disregarded as nothing more sinister than a naturaly occuring creature, but the strange things that some of the prints do when they come up against walls and houses has so far remained unexplained. And just saying 'the press made it up' is frankly, a bit of a cop out.

 

[wembley8]

now that we know that straight, one directly in front of another, tracks of prints are just rabbits or some other small hopping creature and are nothing remarkable, the question remains, what made the other tracks? That is the mysterious part of this whole case, the fact that these reports exist of tracks that looked like something bipedal with hooves

No, because a lot of stir was also generated in places that had hooflike tracks created (apparently) by cats. It's the human capacity to be amazed at things - and for the story to grow - that makes this interesting.

The part-thaw changing the shape of prints may be the most important key to the whole thing.

Personally I'd be very interested to know whether there were any footprints actually found on roofs ( and whether these looked a lot like bird prints when examined soberly).

 

[ghostdog19]

Parts of them, like reports of single file tracks, can be disregarded as 'unimportant' after applying a spot of investigating.

So, we can rule out Sand People.

 

[Hospitaller]

The answer is so obvious, can’t you see!? It was Indrid Cold!

Although we can be only 99.38% sure that this is so, so I suppose the probabilities contained within the other .62% are worth considering. This case was one of the seminal ones for me, which to the tune of the theme music to Arthur C Clarke’s Mysterious World, arrested my interest in all things Fortean.

Has anyone looked at this in conjunction with ley lines? Of course this wouldn’t rule pranksters in or out, as they may have deliberately perpetrated the hoax along these lines.

What I find really fascinating about this case is that given the most likely explanation (leaving Mr Cold aside for a moment, that is) of contagion, what are the sparks that ignited this? As someone else has already noted, what was the antecedent to all this? If any given snowfall could result in a similar pattern of tracks to be misinterpreted, what was it about this particular instance that yielded an interpretation that still fascinates and engages comment and pondering a century and a half on? This to me is the single most cogent argument against the contagion explanation. Why didn’t it happen again? It could be argued that the contagion principle would see the next snowfall with its animal tracks being interpreted in a similar fashion. Against this however, maybe the crystallisation of the “Devil’s footprints” legend led to a commonly held recollection of what it was like that ensured that no subsequent snowfall could ever be seen in the same light, unless it presented the phenomenon as it had become crystallised.
This, however, is somewhat distinct from the really intriguing thing for me which is why did no previous snowfall produce such a reaction? The kind of analysis that has been brought to bear re: the Salem witch trials could be really useful in this regard.

In conclusion, I see two interesting areas in which this phenomenon merits further exploration. Firstly the psychological and sociological milieu which engendered it, both locally and nationwide (and perhaps the one(s) that sustained and grew the legend over the decades, given sustained interest in it up until this very moment). Secondly, to return to my first impression, the psycho-geography element – ley lines and other such from the ‘earth mystery’ department.

 

[Hospitaller]

Vital to the approach to this case is to identify the epicentre of the contagion. From whence did the talk of “Devil’s footprints” emanate? Perhaps there was an area/areas where the prints appeared with genuinely inexplicable characteristics and word of them spread, with footprints all over the area soon being imbued with supernatural import. Hence what might have been a phenomenon limited to one village snowballed into the ‘trail of footprints crossing 80 miles’ legend we have today, whereas what really made this 80 mile trek was rumour and speculation. Perhaps all of this has served to obscure and bury in a mound of contagion the initial, original phenomenon. To use the example of the panda’s zoo escape given in the Nickel (1996) Skeptic Inquirer article linked to early on in the thread, the 100+ putative sightings of the long since dead panda doesn’t negate the fact that it did escape in the first instance!

Excerpt on topic from Fort's Book of the Damned:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/fort/damned/damn28.htm

Original report from the Times of 16/2/1855: http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/panicdevon.html

 

[wembley8]

Has anyone looked at this in conjunction with ley lines?

The route zig-zags all over the place. No doubt you could fit it to any number of ley lines if you tried; but ley lines were not invented until 1921 so I don't think they featured here.

 

[Anonymous]

...ley lines were not invented until 1921...

You mean 'discovered' surely? LOL!

 

[Hospitaller]

Mystery Solved! See: http://www.raygirvan.co.uk/walks/goatwalk.htm

"This narrow path along the sea wall is so named because a 19th century Topsham dignitary used to lead his goat out here to commit unnatural acts with it out of sight of the town. One snowy night in the 1850s, suspicious locals followed the tracks and caught him, whereupon the goat, frightened by the shouting and torches, ran across the frozen Exe, covering miles across the Devon countryside before being shot near Totnes by Charles Babbage, the computer pioneer. This gave rise to the local story of the 'Devil's Hoofprints', which appears to have been invented to provide a more acceptable explanation of the prints. When tide permits, the shore below Goat Walk is a popular venue for off-road car racing."

 

[stu neville]

...ley lines were not invented until 1921...

You mean 'discovered' surely? LOL!

Re-discovered, even? Anyway, Watkins dubbed them "Leys" in 1921, so that's when the epithet was invented. So five points each.

Mystery Solved! See: http://www.raygirvan.co.uk/walks/goatwalk.htm

"This narrow path along the sea wall is so named because a 19th century Topsham dignitary used to lead his goat out here to commit unnatural acts with it out of sight of the town. One snowy night in the 1850s, suspicious locals followed the tracks and caught him, whereupon the goat, frightened by the shouting and torches, ran across the frozen Exe, covering miles across the Devon countryside before being shot near Totnes by Charles Babbage, the computer pioneer. This gave rise to the local story of the 'Devil's Hoofprints', which appears to have been invented to provide a more acceptable explanation of the prints. When tide permits, the shore below Goat Walk is a popular venue for off-road car racing."

This is another splendid example of where a proposed explanation of a Fort event seems even less likely than the originally purported cause (see also synchronised-swimming carp in formation being mistaken for a crocodile, or an escaped elephant taking a morning dip being responsible for Nessie sightings .)

Gotta love those Charles Babbage and off-road racing details!

 

[tilly50]

I was reading a book on the history of shoes the other day and saw a picture of some pattens that were worn over the shoes to protect them from wet and mud in bad weather during the 18th century (and maybe later).

I'm sorry but my IT skills (?) are minimal and I don't know how to get a picture of these up to illustrate what they look like. They are a sole shaped piece of wood with leather straps on top to attatch to the foot with a metal horseshoe shaped platform attatched to the base. This metal platform is some four to six inches in height and the base of it (where it would leave an impression in the ground) is very reminiscent of the footprints left in the snow.

I used to wear platform heels in the 70's when they were in fashion and I don't think that I would like to try to walk along a wall in them, but when you wear the things you do tend to walk like a cat to keep your balance.

 

[QuaziWashboard]

I was reading a book on the history of shoes the other day and saw a picture of some pattens that were worn over the shoes to protect them from wet and mud in bad weather during the 18th century (and maybe later).
They are a sole shaped piece of wood with leather straps on top to attatch to the foot with a metal horseshoe shaped platform attatched to the base. This metal platform is some four to six inches in height and the base of it (where it would leave an impression in the ground) is very reminiscent of the footprints left in the snow.

Wow :shock: Thanks tilly50, that really adds weight to my 'hoax' theory. I speculated a while ago than these tracks were made by some form of carved footwear, but I never imagined that such a thing could have been available to purchase.

 

[many_angled_one]

Has anybody yet suggested the theory of TWO rabbits working together?

I think there has to at least an element of hysteria about all of this, once the word got out people who seen tracks the previous day(s) could suddenly have been of the mind of "Oh my gosh, I seen tracks as well! It must have been the same thing!" by which point the tracks had decayed somewhat.
But to just ignore the mass of witnesses and reports would be foolish indeed. Even if you entirely discount a supernatural cause it is still fascinating.

 

[wembley8]

...ley lines were not invented until 1921...

You mean 'discovered' surely?

"surely"

 

[QuaziWashboard]

I think there has to at least an element of hysteria about all of this, once the word got out people who seen tracks the previous day(s) could suddenly have been of the mind of "Oh my gosh, I seen tracks as well! It must have been the same thing!" by which point the tracks had decayed somewhat.

I tend to agree overall with this theory but I think the origin of hysteria came from hoaxers who did a few tracks here and there that seemed to do impossible things like going through or over tall walls or houses. You can even imagine the hoaxers keeping very quiet about the whole thing once the hysteria effect snowballed out of all proportions.

 

[ghostdog19]

I think there has to at least an element of hysteria about all of this, once the word got out people who seen tracks the previous day(s) could suddenly have been of the mind of "Oh my gosh, I seen tracks as well! It must have been the same thing!" by which point the tracks had decayed somewhat.

I tend to agree overall with this theory but I think the origin of hysteria came from hoaxers who did a few tracks here and there that seemed to do impossible things like going through or over tall walls or houses. You can even imagine the hoaxers keeping very quiet about the whole thing once the hysteria effect snowballed out of all proportions.

Both are likely. I put it down to hysteria born of naivety (hence why we don't get any informed opinions of the time).

 

[OldTimeRadio]

The March, 2007, "Your True Tales" of the Paranormal section at About.Com contains the testimony of a resident of Fairfax, Virginia, apparently a Muslim-American, who reports that in early February of this year he discovery the large footprint of a "djinn" in the solid winter ice covering the roof of an automobile.

 

[QuaziWashboard]

The March, 2007, "Your True Tales" of the Paranormal section at About.Com contains the testimony of a resident of Fairfax, Virginia, apparently a Muslim-American, who reports that in early February of this year he discovery the large footprint of a "djinn" in the solid winter ice covering the roof of an automobile.

How would you recognise a djinn (or genie) footprint? In every illustration I've seen of one, it either has no feet because it's antire bottom half is comprised of a gasious substance (usualy as it is emerging from an old lamp just after some unsuspecting kid has decided to give it a polish.... now I know that story is a myth, I've got two kids and I don't think I've ever seen either of them do any housework ) or it's wearing those snazzy curly toed slippers. Overall though, their appearence would seem to be human, including their feet, so even if one had feet and was bare footed, how would you know it wasn't a human print?

 

[OldTimeRadio]

How would you recognise a djinn (or genie) footprint?....[E]ven if one had feet and was bare footed, how would you know it wasn't a human print?

Heck, don't look at me - I've never claimed to have seen a genie.

I did once see a Jeannie with the Light Brown Hair, but I'm not certain that counts.

But the image of the djinn you and I have learned from Western Europe recensions of the 1001 NIGHTS, which have been effectively out of Muslim hands for centuries, may be a quite different creature than that originating directly from living Muslim folklore.

 

[wembley8]

How would you recognise a djinn (or genie) footprint?

It all depends on your background. If you're a Muslim, it's a Jinn; if your various sorts of Christian, it has to be the Devil. To others it can only have been left by a chupacabras.

Or a natural phenomenon with a non-supernatural explanation

Which is exactly where we are witht he "devils footprints" - which were not ascribed to the devil by most people as far as I can tell, but obviously it fitted the purposes of a local clergyman to label them as such, and the label stcuk.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

....if your various sorts of Christian, it has to be the Devil.

HAS to be? I can introduce you to at least one Christian Fortean who can appreciate the differences between, say, demons and chupacabras. (As well as any apparently similarities, where applicable.)

Not everything given the name of the "Devil" is to henceforth be regarded as demonic. The name of Cincinnati's "Devil's Backbone Road" is purely descriptive of that stretch's twists and turns and dips, and it has never been associated with the supernatural.