Dowsing

ArthurASCII

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#1
After reading some recent postings discussing the merits of dowsing, I posted a message urging the correspondents to visit James Randi's "Million Dollar Challenge" site http://www.randi.org/research/
in order to relieve him of a million dollars while, at the same time, scientifically proving the veracity of their claims.

So far, no one has indicated their willingness to take up the challenge.

I long for some hard, scientific proof that dowsing works, rather than word of mouth, FOAF, unverifiable stories and mutual back-slapping that seems to abound amongst fellow dowsers.

Why won't anyone take up Randi's challenge? or can someone provide me with some links to serious scientific studies that have proved beyond doubt, that dowsing works?
 

stu neville

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#2
Au contraire.

Check out the "Magnetism, Leys and Stone Circles" thread in "New Science".

Let's await developments, shall we?
 

ArthurASCII

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#3
Thank you Stu, super stuff!

I hope your letter gets things moving, although, as it's Randi's money you may find it difficult to dictate terms to him.

I suppose that if both parties hit rates are the flat average dictated by chance, you will concede defeat?
 
A

Anonymous

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#4
I use to try out dowsing but I stopped when I realised that I was effecting the results to much subconciously ...or perhaps thats how it works? Your subconcious connecting with your concious?

Actually, my interest was rekindled when we watched a History video in School where some archeologists were using dowsing to find ancient artifacts. I couldn't beleive my eyes when I saw it but oddly no-one else in the class, including the teacher, noted the significance of being taught a Fortean skill in class.
 

JurekB

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#6
I once bought a 'Teach yourself dousing' kit from a book shop in Wakefield. It was reduced to a fiver and contained 2 metal dousing rods, a book, and lots of little wooden pegs which you have to scatter around the house and then look for with the rods.

It was great but I did get the same impression as Adam Rang, in that I felt I was cheating in some way. The book actually said that to begin with it was ok to 'manipulate' the rods in order to get the correct results as this would teach your sub conscious what was expected of it..... or something like that.
 

cadwellm

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#7
I've done dowsing for fun

I've tried dowsing. Saw a show on TV some years back and decided it would be fun to try. My husband took a coin and hid in the backyard while I was in the house not looking. I also tried to find the water pipes in the backyard.

It worked pretty darn well. It could very well be the subconscious doing it but it befuddles me about the coin thing because I didn't know where the coin was and my family members didn't give me any clues as to where it was and I found it each time (three times).

As for the pipes you can pretty much tell where they would be but I was trying to figure out how the dowsing rods worked.

I used metal clothes hangers bent in an elongated "L" shape and held them loosely in my hands. They crossed when I was over the coin or the pipes and when I went away from them they went apart.

Just talking about it makes me want to try it again. Maybe this time I'll figure it out. *grin*
 

stu neville

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#8
Randi challenge update

The story so far....

Our hero, the chiselled Fortean Stu Neville, has challenged squat villain and skeptic "The Amazing Randi" to a test of the veracity of dowsing by means of a test, the critaeria of which are listed in an E-mail copied on the thread "Magnetism, stone circles and leys" in the New Science forum. This E-mail was sent a week ago; our hero awaits the Nemesis's response: wil there be a Final Conflict?? Now read on...

I've heard sod all.

Tune in to the next gripping episode, same time, same place! Be there, or be somewhere else!!
 

marion

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#9
I thought it was generally accepted that dowsing works,water companies use it , and pipelaying companies ( I have read this somewhere ) . You can find underground pipes by dowsing . Interesting thing , my mother can't dowse at all but if I stand behind her and hold her elbows she can!
 

ArthurASCII

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#10
Patience is a virtue Stu :)

Perhaps Mr Randi is busy exposing a misguided person or a charlatan somewhere else. There are a lot of them about you know... :madeyes:
 

ArthurASCII

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#11
Hi Marion,

Perhaps the problem with dowsing IS that many people "think" it works.

It appears to me that science supports the sceptical view.

Please check the web on dowsing - both pro and anti, and judge for yourself. My web journey left me with the impression that the pro side is full of friend of a friend (FOAF) tales, and mostly unsupported by links to learned papers.

Proof.....I must have PROOF :eek!!!!:

Happy hunting.
 

augustverango

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#12
Arthur, why not try it for yourself? Surely personal experience is more important and rewarding than reading other's opinions of it. Problem is, it seems you have already made up your mind...

There seems to be quite a few comments from people who have tried it that they felt they were 'cheating' or that 'it must have been my subconscious' like that makes it somehow wrong or invalid! Surely if it get's the desired results then that's all that matters.
 
A

Anonymous

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#13
At the uncon I tried some dowsing experiments. I got some rods and had to walk past several wires, two had electricity flowing through, one was clearly marked as having it the other was not. As I walked accross my rods crossed twice, once at the wire clearly marked and another time at a different wire. I was quite aware that in both instances it was me subconsiously crossing the wire and its worth noting that at the same time I was consentrating on the word 'electricity'. They said they would post all the results on the web soon so I'll have to wait to find out if I was correct or not.

August, I stopped doing dowsing becuase I found it to easy to simply think of a direction for the pendulem to swing and before my eyes it would do that without me even conciously swinging it in that direction. I do believe that the succes experienced during dowsing is a result of the subconcious mind moving the pendulem/rod to show you where the electricity/water etc. is.

This raises its own questions however, for a start it implies that our sunconsious mind has the ability to know where the target is. I can't explain that, although I have read up about a 'sub space mind' that we supposedly all posses which is all knowing of the physical.
 

augustverango

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#14
Why did that stop you from dowsing though? I know the effect you mean - 'thinking' a pendulum to move in a certain way - but did it prevent you from getting the results you required or did you simply feel that you would be 'interfering' with those results if you could decide which way the pendulum would move?
 
A

Anonymous

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#15
Well, I felt that when I was searching it was far to easy for me to think conciously 'the water is here' and the pendulem would then start indicating it as well.

I might start it again as I'm sure I could get great results if I train my mind to have more patience when I do it and to just consentrate on the question 'Is it here?'.
 

gyrtrash

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#16
Dowsing Renaissance?!

Is dowsing undergoing a mini-revival?!

Recently, I have come across several people who have had 'the dowsers in'! This involved dowsing their gardens and metal rods being placed under the ground to divert 'black energies' from the household...
...or is this a version of the trendy Feng Shui?

This reminded me of the people in Tom Graves's 'Needles of stone' who travel the country 'healing the land' in a very similar manner but on a regional/national level...

...so is it the new vogue in 'Ground Force' make-overs, or the continuation of an older tradition?!
 

gyrtrash

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#17
...just found this thread...

I've posted a related thread on the Earth Mysteries section; 'Dowsing Renaissance', but I ain't technologically advanced enough to give a link...sorry!...
:)

D 'Luddite' Raven...:rolleyes:
 

ArthurASCII

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#18
Hi August,

I tried dowsing many years ago (1960's) and came to the conclusion that my results were a product of the workings of my subconsious mind. I feel however, that until the art of dowsing is held up to the light of scientific scrutiny, the dowsing community's claims can be taken no more seriously than those of the Feng Shui, aromatherapy or even acupuncturist and homeopathy practitioners.

I want a definitive explanation of how these things work. Surely, if we can decode the human genome, we can solve the "mysteries" of these claims.

Constant, unsubstantiated references to mysterious energy fields etc are, frankly, a yawn. Surely archeological survey teams would be using these "energies" (if they indeed exist) to locate likely sites?

I know that the great Mr Fort didn't have much time for scientific method, but things have moved on apace.

Why not "suck it and see"?
 

ArthurASCII

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#19
Hi David,

I don't know if dowsing is undergoing a revival, but I wouldn't be surprised.

There seems to be a backlash against technology by trendy middle class new-agers .

Witness the current MRM vaccine scare, where superstition, egged-on by certain newspapers, has resulted in a low take up of MRM vaccinations due to fears of autism (I read somewhere recently that a survey of children in the UK who had "mild autism" found that less than 20% actually suffered from that terrible disease. The rest had been labelled autistic by their trendy parents when they were, in fact, merely badly behaved or had learning difficulties.

Trendy things for your children to suffer from:

First it was allergy, then it was E numbers, then it was hyperactivity, then it was dyslexia, now it is autism.

Some poor children suffer greatly from the above, and my heart goes out to them and their parents, but do I detect a fashion...?

Oh, before I forget.
an article in the Independent recently suggested that research showed that only 10% of allergy sufferers actually have an allergy!

It's my belief that there is an element of fashion that cuts through most of these debates, and hypochondria is alive and well, and living in suburbia.

What say you?

(expecting the inevitable deluge of invective from bruised trendies...)
 
A

Anonymous

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#20
Colin Wilson wrote a lot about dowsing in his book 'Mysteries'. His friend TC Lethbridge was obsessed with dowsing (as in pendulum dowsing) and appeared to get a lot of results from it. I don't know whether I believe it or not, but it is a long and interesting chapter. The book is out of print, but you can sometimes pick up a copy in Watkins in Leicester Square which is an esoteric bookshop.
 

ArthurASCII

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#21
Hi Toxic,

Obsessives, as I'm sure you will agree, are not always the most objective of people when it comes to self criticism.
 

harlequin2005

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#22
Interesting and sadly out of print book that may be of interest if you can find it... 'Needles of Stone'by Tom Graves pb 1978 and then revised in 1986 (pb Gothic Image Press) I believe that Mr Graves n longer has a real interest in dowsing now, but he did also write 'Pendulum Dowsing' which was a pretty good starting point for dowsing.

8-)
 

gyrtrash

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#23
I'll be disappointed but not surprised if it is a passing fashion...the next thing we know Mr Titchmarsh'll be out in his back garden with his new range of 'Barleywood' positive energy rustic poles...
...and there was me hoping for a burgeoning of caring spirituality!

...anyway, can't chat, I'll be late for my chakra-balancing, healing-crystal colonic massage...ouch!:rolleyes:
 

harlequin2005

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#24
Side bar

Good Lord! Another reader of Mr Graves. It was his book, at the tender age of 13 that really kicked off my interest in earth mysteries... Ah, memories

8¬)
 

Bullseye

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#25
It works

In my day job I work at a water treatment works, its over a hundred years old, lots of old water mains that have been forgotten about. If I get a couple of old welding rods, bend them to make two handles and wander around the damn things go mad. They also cross over if I pass under phone lines. So it seems it works up as well as down.
 

Bullseye

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#27
!

How could I subconsiously make it work when Idont know where the old mains are?. When excavations mae at later dates,old mains were where rods indicated. Nothing special about me ,expect anyone could do it.
 

intaglio

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#28
I've seen several times words to the effect of "I was aware I was subconciously making it work"

Sorry folks that ain't subconcious.

Now I don't want to worry you but if you work on site you will find out dowsers are used. BT, in its in house magazine reported on its successful use recently.

To get rid if the FOAF side I have seen it used successfully by a site engineer (surveyor) who needed a quick fix on the line of a water main. He did not have time to wait for the Borough Surveyors or water company to provide a map (the BS map indeed would have been useless, the pipe had been laid some 40 years ago and the BS line was 5 m out of place). He spotted it to within 1m and gave an estimated depth accurate to within 30 cm.
 

ArthurASCII

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#29
Dowsing Breakthrough?

Calling all dowsers...Get yourselves onto the Rangertell infosite and pick up this sure-fire gadget. Here is a quick quote from the info site:

"Immediately you can detect gold, silver and precious metals. Also as close as the next frequency (on request and deliverable by email immediately when we can and don't need to obtain samples) you can find any gemstone even diamonds and US Notes. In the instructions you will find how to tune to almost any material once you have a sample"

Keeping an open mind (and trying to ignore the fact that the device appears to consist of a pocket calculator strapped to a cigar box and a toilet roll), do any of my fellow posters know of someone who has used one (FOAF tales eagerly accepted)?

I suggest that Gully Bull investigate this ground-breaking device, and that it should be a subject for revue in FT ASAP.
 
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