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Dr Crippen

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Did anybody see the Channel 4 documentary tonight??? I got a phone call right in the middle of it and could only keep half an ear open. They had found new evidence in the form of a suppressed letter from his wife supposedly sent after her 'murder' ad there were issues about police tampering of evidence. Can anybody fill me in as I cannot find any web-links.

I've always had a soft spot for Dr. Crippen.
 
Watched it. The letter was supposedly sent by Mrs Crippen to the Gaol and passed on by the governor to Winston Churchill who then either forgot about it or suppressed it only for it to turn up 90 years later. As far as I am aware they did not explain how it was found or where it was found.

I've read a lot on this case before but had never heard of the letter. The program did not contain anything at all to verify in any manner at all whether the letter was genuine or not. Only that it was posted in America. I think they said she wrote two letters in all. The letter claimed she was alive in America and wanted to save her husband but that she would never come forward publicly. As she was the treasurer of a local musical society I would have thought finding a sample of her known handwriting to compare it to would have been relatively easy.

It was curious to discover that Mrs Crippen apparently tried to withdraw £600 from their joint account and moved six boxes of belongings out of their home a few days before she disappeared. Aslo curious to learn that several prosecution witnesses were paid to appear in court.

I've read several accounts of this case over the years and have never heard of any of this being mentioned. Also there were human remains in the cellar and they must have belonged to someone.

The program also suggested that the pyjamas may not have been found in the cellar after all (although they had no evidence for this) and suggested that Inspector Dew may have been less than honest. Again not heard this suggested before.

A lot of claims but very little facts really.

It was intriquing but needed so many follow up questions really. I suppose the program was too short to contain any detailed information but like you, I wanted to know more. Most of the accounts I have read make a great play of how awful Dr Crippens daily exsitence was and how badly treated by his wife he was but this was barely mentioned last night.
 
They mentioned in passing how Cora would have sex with her German student lodgers while Crippen was in the house which i suppose was pretty bad behaviour :).

Like you from the bits I saw I too thought 'well where did the body come from?' and also that the police must have and probably still do get hoax letters....it didn't seem to work for me although the bit abut the paid witnesses and the way the press stage managed the whole thing was fascinating.

I don't know if you saw a documentary a few years back where the programme maker traced the children of Ethel le Neve. That was fascinating in that she had produced two wonderful kids who had no idea until late in life who she was. Throughout the trail Ethle le Neve had worn a blue scraf and it become rather her motif and the daughter remembers playing with the scarf as a child, in fact its one of her abiding memories.

As I said I've always felt for the pair of them. I think he probably did murder Cora and nobody deserves to die no matter how badly behaved and selfish but when I read accounts of how they tried to escape I'm always willing them on to make it..twisted morality????, yeah probably :)
 
The baffling thing about the 'body' is how little there appears to have been of it. A few internal organs some chunks of abdomen, no head. What happened to the bones? What was left were the easiest pieces to destroy. If you were really thinking conspiracy, a collection of body part of the sort that you might find in a medical laboratory's specimen jars.

The scene was hopelessly disturbed by today's forensic standards and the initial excavation sounded pretty amatuerish even by the standards of the time.

It seems that even a vaguely competent defence could have introduced enough doubt to prevent Crippen being hanged.
 
I missed that, and it was just my sort of thing too. :(
I do hope it's repeated soon.
 
I do remember reading that someone was trying to publish something in the sixties and that Ethel Le Neve suddenly took out an injunction or similar. Apparently everyone thought she was long dead. She'd been living quietly under another name.

From what I've read Cora treated him appallingly and he had to more or less wait on her lovers etc. I gather there were rather a lot of them too!

My gran was alive in London around this time as a young girl. When I was growing up "Crippen" was still used by her as a term to frightnen me! It was only when I did my own research I found out how sad (and romantic in some aspects) the truth was. I wonder if "Shipman" will remain as long in the memory?

Seems Crippen was a decent man driven to the edge. I did know that no-one had worked out exactly how he was able to adminsiter Hyoscin to Cora.
that was the one part already known to me that was to some extent mysterious.

Can't help but feel the term "Crippen" has rather unjustly come to mean a monster. Always felt that perhaps "Bodkin-Adams" was more deserving of that title although that case too is odd in the extreme.
 
Just found this on Bodkin-Admams.

"Coincidentally he was the doctor of the father in law of Dr. Grieve, who was Dr. Harold Shipman's boss!"
 
Ethel le Neve died in 1967 after having married and never once alluding to the case. As it said in the programme last night, Crippen was buried with a picture of her and more poignantly she asked to be buried with a picture of him all those years on.
 
Found this on the C4 Informer site, says a litle more about the letter.

Dr Hawley Harvey Crippen is remembered as one of the most sinister murderers of the 20th century. In 1910 he was hanged for poisoning his wife, Cora, and mutilating her body. The story of his capture became the very first international tabloid event. It was a story that had everything: a gory murder and a respectable doctor with a tangled secret love life. When the doctor and his girlfriend, Ethel Le Neve, fled across the Atlantic in a three thousand mile chase, which had lasted for 10 days, they were foiled by the new miracle technology of wireless. The ship's captain had recognised the suspicious looking couple and contacted Scotland Yard. It was an open and shut case. Crippen was tried, found guilty, and hanged. But had the case of Dr Crippen became such a spectacle that no one wanted to see the flaws in the case or the inadequacies of his trial? With opinion stacked heavily against him, facts became hidden as pieces of evidence were strung together to become the rope around his neck. A century of new evidence makes it clear that Crippen should never have been hanged. With a reconstruction of Crippen's life and trial, the film examines new evidence that Cora was alive and well in America at the time of the trial and sent a letter to plead his innocence; a letter which the authorities ignored. Cora's body was never found, though a small piece of flesh wrapped in an old pyjama jacket and buried beneath the flagstones at the Crippens' house in Holloway was crucial to his conviction. Since then other new pieces of evidence have come to light. A letter emerged dated 22nd October 1910, apparently from Cora Crippen, sent to the Governor of Brixton (sic) Prison. In it she says she has heard he has been sentenced to death, and that she is writing to prove she is still alive - thereby giving him ammunition to protest his innocence. Furthermore it makes reference to an earlier letter she had sent to the judge to try and make sure that Crippen would be spared the death penalty. She says she will not come in person as that would jeopardise her new life. This letter has been kept in strict archival conditions from 1910 to the present day.
 
Descendants of notorious killer Dr Crippen launch legal bid to clear his name
By Neil Sears
Last updated at 1:15 AM on 01st January 2009

He is one of the most notorious murderers in British history.

And in 1910 an Old Bailey jury took less than half an hour to sentence Dr Hawley Crippen to death for poisoning his wife Cora.

But 99 years on, campaigners are trying to clear his name and secure an official pardon.

Patrick Crippen, of Dayton, Ohio --Dr Crippen's closest living relative --believes that new evidence proves the homeopath could not have committed the murder for which he was hanged.

After friends reported Mrs Crippen missing, police searched the couple's home in North London and found a headless corpse in the coal cellar. Dr Crippen had already fled with his secretary Ethel le Neve, and they were on a ship travelling to Canada when they were recognised by the captain.

He famously used the new Marconi telegraph system to send the news to Scotland Yard, leading to Dr Crippen's capture.

But according to 72-year-old former marketing executive Patrick Crippen, DNA tests have shown the headless corpse found in the cellar was that of a man.

Mr Crippen said: 'He did not kill his wife, of that I am sure. The evidence is overwhelming that the body was male. It is a celebrated horror case but the prosecution was entirely wrong.
'There was so much furore around the case that Hawley was bound to be found guilty. The jury took just 27 minutes.
'The DNA evidence and a longer, more sober look at the facts reveals this is a gross miscarriage of justice.'

The case for a pardon is being pushed in Britain by self-styled legal expert Giovanni di Stefano - an Anglo-Italian who claims to have worked for notorious clients including Saddam Hussein.
He claims that Britain broke international protocol by executing Dr Crippen, an American citizen, without officially informing the U.S. government.
Mr di Stefano, who has written to the Justice Ministry calling for a pardon, added: 'Dr Crippen was wrongly convicted of the murder of his wife because, as has been scientifically proved, the remains at the house were not those of his wife.

'Our actions can now vindicate the Crippen family and Dr Crippen who, in his last letter, said that "history will prove I am no murderer".'
Mr di Stefano said he was seeking the help of the American Ambassador to address the alleged breach of protocol over the execution.
He said he had also written to the governor of Pentonville prison demanding the return of Dr Crippen's body, which is buried in a grave inside the jail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -name.html
 
All that was found was a lump of flesh with a distinctive scar, 'identified' as being the same as a scar on Crippen's wife's abdomen.

But if the DNA test is correct (there seems to be some doubt)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawley_Har ... w_evidence
that raises quite a few new questions.

Who was the body? Did Crippen kill him? If not why was Crippen fleeing to America with another woman who was dressed as a boy?
What happened to his wife? Did she perhaps kill this man and flee herself?
Or was she in fact a man, which might explain why Crippen killed her? Or did Crippen kill both of them, and who knows how many other people??

Answers on a postcard please.
 
Quite. If he's "no murderer", why are there human remains with no identifying material (apart from the scar) buried under a flagstone in his basement?

Maybe Mrs Crippen was a pseudo-hermaphrodite, and genetically male while physiologically female? Or maybe it's someone else entirely that just happened to die on the premises, so they cut them up, disposed of the parts that might identify the body, and then fled the country.
 
One theory that I've heard is that German medical students who were lodging in the house may have brought home anatomical specimens, as they did in those days, and disposed of them in the cellar.

Another is that the police planted the tissue in the cellar to incriminate Crippen, whom they suspected of murdering his wife, who had disappeared with no acceptable explanation.

I'm looking forward to developments and would expect to see Crippen exonerated.
 
Innocent or not, he unfortunately has one of those names that won't ever be forgotten, or let him be exonerated. The name "Crippen" is one just laden with doom, isn't it?

Aside from the Marconi connection to his arrest (which generally speaking, many people don't know about), had he been called Dr Smith, I dare say we would have forgotten all about him already. I mean, he wasn't a prolific killer (if at all) like "Brides in the Bath Smith", and who remembers him? (Apart from me, having seen "him" at Mme Toussauds in London and revelling in my Mum telling me of why someone so distinctly un-horrific looking was in the Chamber of Horrors. Crippen's name was enough to give me the chills)

I presume there aren't many Crippens about these days, you know the first thing anyone would say upon finding out their surname - "Erm....any relation?". A bit like Hitler, Himmler or forenames like Myra, I'd say that name will slide into extinction.
 
LordRsmacker said:
I mean, he wasn't a prolific killer (if at all) like "Brides in the Bath Smith", and who remembers him?
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You mean George Joseph Smith? I'd have thought many people. Apart from being a prolific murderer and bigamist, his trial was rather significant as well, if only for nearly killing a volunteer in the demonstration of how he did it.
 
You reckon? Hmmm, I'm not so sure, but then perhaps I'm just getting more cynical about the public at large as I get older.

It's been a long time since I've been into Mme Tussaud's in London, perhaps 30 years, but I've seen the queues outside. Who actually features in the Chamber of Horrors these days, and do today's visitors find one or 2-victim murderers from the early 20th Century more interesting than, say, Freddy Krueger?
I recall my own trepidation at going into that place, only to be mildly disappointed as a kid, I had to check that I'd actually been into the so-called Chamber of Horrors! Of course, my dear old Ma filling me in on the grim details made it all stick in my mind, but how many of today's kids would find that interesting? Maybe I'm too cynical, and they haven't chucked out Pierrepoint in favour of Pinhead!

To people like you or I, who obviously have more esoteric tastes than, say, the goings-on in the Big Brother House for example, George Smith's case is interesting, but I don't think I remembered they had nearly drowned a volunteer during the forensic research. I'm sure that if you showed a list of names to average Joe in the street and asked them to pick the murderers, Crippen's would be picked 99% of the time. On the other hand, up until today's memory refreshment, I doubt I'd have noticed George Joseph Smith, (unless he showed up as "Brides-in-the-Bath Smith"! )

And what are 3 murders to people brought up today on films like Saw etc? Pah, drowning in the bath, boooo-ring!
 
Crippen Is Innocent

Now, I have a personal interst in all this; I'm versed in many famous as well as obscure cases of crime - especially murder. I like to think I'm fairly "up" on all the major cases; including the well-trodden Ripper.

One case - a "celebrated" case for many reasons - is that of H.H. Crippen, tried and executed for the wilful murder of his wife, Cora. The details of this major trial of the early 20th Century of the British courts are easy to find; in many novels, textbooks, even in history reference.

However,

It has been proved, beyond any scientific doubt, that the human remains found in Hilldrop Crescent - which made up the majority of the case against Crippen - were of a male.

See Here - http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/oct/17/ukcrime.science

Now, it is an interesting point that if the body isn't of Cora (which supressed evidence shows she may have fled the country before her "death"), who were the tattered remains of? How were they absolutely chockker of the poison hyocine - this is the only UK case of wilful hyocine poisoning? Why did Crippen and his lover LeNeve flee? There is much to be uncovered.

But there is one prime point ...

Crippen was tried, found guilty and executed for the murder of his wife at Hilldrop Crescent, entirely on the "evidence" of the body parts discovered. But the parts were male. So Crippen is innocent of the "murder" of the "woman" - supposedly his wife - disposed of in the basement.

In essence - Crippen is innocent of the murder of his wife, therefore a posthumous pardon is required.

So

Why is it all quiet? Why has a wrongly committed man been executed ... and modern science has aquitted?
 
I'm no expert, and I'm not sure about the validity of the new DNA evidence but why was there only some 'meat' left in the cellar?
If Crippen managed to de-bone, dismember and then dispose of the skull, bones, hands etc. why did he bury in the cellar a small(ish) amount of muscle wrapped in his own pyjamas? Why not throw it out with the harder to get rid of parts?

That doesn't make sense. :imo:
 
Wasn't Crippen's wife alive and well touring the show houses of America?

I saw a documentary on The Discovery Channel some time ago pretty much stating that the rozzer in charge framed Crippen and that his wife, or her lawyer, or somebody sent a letter to the then secretary of state Winston Churchill to let him know this and the git just pocketed it.
 
There was an interesting documentary on this very subject a year or two back. I can't remember the channel, but it sounds like the sort of thing that would appear on Channel 4, and re-appear forever after on More 4 or somewhere.

Anyhow, it told a story just as the one which Stormkhan described, and suggested that Crippen was almost certainly innocent of any wrongdoing (other than fleeing, for which you could hardly blame him, if we assume he'd got wind of what was going on), and for sure, the body in the cellar was male, and so not his wife.

It's one of those "more questions than answers" situtations - whose remains were found, how did they get there, what did Crippen know that made him flee - but I've read little or nothing on the subject since, until now.
 
Thing is, forensic patholigists have many questions about the case ...

Why did Crippen do a runner? If he'd "topped" Cora, he could've brazened it out.

Why the remains? As said, he'd managed to get rid of the rest of a rather stout woman ... so he wrapped up a few gobbets of flesh in one of his pyjama jackets? The remains which were found only after the senior detective on the case and his sergeant - no one else - discovered them.

Contemporary accounts relate the awful smell coming from the bits - and their resting place. This location was right next door to the major living space ... and a dog! So we are to believe that no one, especially a dog, noticed the whiff of putrefaction?

What about the report - recently "released" - which was a witness report of a woman matching Coras description, shipping out several large amounts of luggage? This was suppressed by the rozzers, 'cause it didn't fit their case.

But, considering the entire prosecution rested on Spilsbury's evidence* concerning the flesh, with this new information, it is obvious that Crippen hadn't killed his wife - or any woman - for that matter ergo the case he was found guilty of was actually a mistrial. Therefore, he should be due for a posthumous pardon. Naturally, this doesn't mean he didn't have anything to do with the "remains" found, but without the identification of his wifes body, he must be considered innocent.

*Spilsbury was a renowned forensic analyst, whose investigative evidence was quite ground-breaking. He was, later on, reknowned for producing evidence for prosecution cases to order. The coppers loved the doc - they want proof? He'd supply it.
 
LordRsmacker said:
Aside from the Marconi connection to his arrest (which generally speaking, many people don't know about), had he been called Dr Smith, I dare say we would have forgotten all about him already.
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I don't think so!

It was the Marconi connection that made the story so big in in its day; the first time a 'killer' had been captured by the latest hi-tech communications of the time. One could almost say that the Marconi connection was the story - people have been murdering their spouses and doing a runner since Biblical times, if not before! - but the radio bit in 1910 was something completely new. (Nowadays it's likely that radio plays a big part in all crime detection, because every police car and bobby on the beat has a radio, so we tend to take it for granted.)

Of course, I may be a little biased, having once worked for the Marconi company! ;)
 
WHAT’S YOUR POISON?

ENGLAND:

Pill-making machines and a pair of glasses thought to have belonged to notorious poisoner Dr Crippen are to go under the hammer next week.

Northamptonshire-based auction house JP Humbert is also offering poison bottles recovered from the workplace of Hawley Harvey Crippen, who was hanged at London’s Pentonville Prison in 1910 for murdering his wife, Cora.

A brooch thought to have been owned by Cora is also on sale at the auction in Towcester on November 19. Crippen, who was born in the US, is believed to have used hyoscine to kill Cora at his London home before attempting to flee to Canada.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/world/quir ... 97429.html
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Murderer Dr Crippen's gun handed to Devon and Cornwall Police in amnesty
By CMCherie Posted: December 06, 2014

A pistol apparently belonging to an infamous murderer has been handed to police as part of a gun amnesty.
The weapon apparently belonged to Victorian killer Dr Crippen and may have been used to shoot his wife.
The owner told officers the gun once belonged to Hawley Harvey Crippen, the American medic hanged in Pentonville Prison for the murder of Cora.

It was given to police as part of an amnesty held last month which saw 446 weapons and 15,721 rounds of ammunition surrendered in two weeks.
The owner of the tiny pistol claimed it was in the possession of notorious Victorian era murderer Dr Crippen.
His wife was found dead in the cellar with traces of a calming drug in the corpse - which was identified by a piece of skin from its abdomen.
But her head, limbs, and skeleton were never recovered and her cause of death was never known.

Key witnesses at his trial reported hearing either a gun shot or a door slamming on the night he fled.

The gun was handed in to police as part of an amnesty.
Chief Inspector Evans said: "As expected there were some unusual items handed in during the amnesty, including a blunderbuss, two grenades with pins removed and some antiques that are clearly of great financial value.
"Some of the weapons will be sent away for further examination to establish whether or not they have been used in the commission of criminal offences."

Chief Inspector Daniel Evans said: "The response from the public with regards to the amnesty has been excellent.
"We have been successful in removing over 400 weapons and more than 15,000 items of ammunition from circulation, preventing them from getting into the wrong hands.

"Planning the amnesty required time and dedication. I would like to thank those involved for their professionalism and commitment to ensuring the operation was such a success."
The vast majority of the firearms handed in have been destroyed by being cut into small and irreparable pieces which will be used for scrap metal.

The blunderbuss was a replica but had a vicious spring-loaded bayonet attached to the barrel. Other unusual items include a set of antique duelling pistols, a flare gun used in the trenches of World War 1.

Crippen was born in Michigan and his first wife, Charlotte, died of a stroke in 1892.
Having qualified as a homeopath, Crippen started to practise in New York, where in 1894 he married his second wife,Corrine "Cora" Turner.
She was a would-be music hall singer who openly had affairs. In 1897, Crippen and his wife moved to England.

His US medical qualifications were not sufficient to allow him to practise as a doctor in the UK.
Crippen was sacked in 1899 for spending too much time managing his wife's stage career and became manager of Drouet's Institution for the Deaf, where he met Ethel Le Neve, a young typist, around 1903.

Police say despite the claims by the owner of the gun's history it will be destroyed with all other weapons handed in.
The amnesty was held by Devon and Cornwall police on November 3- 17 at stations in Bodmin, Camborne, St Austell and Truro as well as in Devon.

Antique gun expert Philip Spooner said it is a Belgium made rim fire revolver dating from 1890. Cora was killed in 1910.
Philip, of West Street Antiques in Dorking, Surrey, said: ''These were fairly inexpensive guns made in Belgium which were widely available anywhere.
"They weren't particularly high quality pocket guns. This one is not in good condition and would be worth around £200 today.

"Of course if it was used by Dr Crippen it would be of a lot more interest."

Steve Grant, of Devon and Cornwall Police, said: "During the amnesty we received a tiny pistol which the owner claimed to have been the possession of notorious Victorian era murderer Dr Crippen.
"The person who handed it in said that it had been passed down through the family, along with the story that a family member had worked in a prison that housed Dr Crippen, and the gun had been seized from him.

"The weapon was handed in anonymously, and the police wouldn't undertake any further research into the veracity of this claim."

Mark Mastaglio, director of forensic firearms consultancy limited, said: "It's a Belgium Bulldog revolver, with a folding trigger. It looks like it's either a 450 or 320 calibre.
"This gun is completely typical of the period when Crippen was arrested. They were manufactured in their thousands from the 1870s onwards.

"They are a low quality but effective firearm which would be easily capable of causing a fatal injury.
"It's the sort of revolver Arthur Conan Doyle referred to when he warned gentlemen about 'walking east of Aldwych'.

"It is what is referred to as an obsolete calibre, so you would not need a certificate to keep one, as it is an antique firearm - as long as you possess it as a curiosity or a decoration."

Read more: http://www.cornishman.co.uk/Murderer-Dr ... z3L6phFSC6

The article is a bit garbled and repetitive - I've tidied it up somewhat.
 
A connection not previously known to me. Cora Crippen"s disappearance was first reported to police by her good friend Miriam Kate Williams, a Victorian-era strongwoman who performed under the name Vulcana.

I've heard Cora's career being not too great, but I wonder if indeed she was a well-liked performer rather than a hobbiest performer as I've usually heard her billed as. Also, Vulcana had quite a career of her own, well worth reading about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulcana
0_ALR_ECH_281018Vulcana_06.jpg
 
ChrisBoardman said:
Wasn't he proven innocent back in 2010 when DNA said the body was a male?
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I'm pretty certain he was 'framed' - planted evidence? But I'm not entirely sure that means he didn't in fact kill her.

Except, given his bizarre escape plan, was he clever enough to have killed her and dispose of the body without it ever being found?

We'll never know. A more recent 'we'll never know' is the A6 murder. I personally am sure Hanratty was guilty, but was his trial fair? It seems to me that if he hadn't changed his alibi he'd never have been convicted. Many are still convinced - despite modern (ish) DNA evidence - that he was innocent.

Complicated stuff.
 
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