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European Pyramids (Including the Bosnian Ones)

"Once you show that you respect your past, people respect you more," he said in calm, slightly accented English, as the pickaxes flew atop his Pyramid of the Sun. "The Bosnian brain is going to excavate this site and show results to the international community."
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Hang about. Isn't he also being accused of destroying ancient graves at the foot of the hill without cataloguing them?

I have to say this pyramid idea looks like becoming something of a rallying point for some elements. It's one of the first positive news stories to come out of the region for some time. I think most people associate Bosnia with a terrible history. What a great opportunity to present something other than war crimes to the outside world: "Look, we have history too!"

I would love the pyramid to be real. But there's a part of me thinking it's better to leave it alone and let the speculation continue. If it proves to be a freaky piece of geography and nothing more, I think the district might lose out economically.
But then I suppose they can still sell it as the Greatest Pyramid that never was.
 
I don't know if this is relevant or not, but I was talking to a Bosnian colleague (from Tuzla) at work about this, and he claims that there is at least one old legend about the Valley of the Pyramids.

According to him, the Ottoman Empire was warned by an old woman (probably a wise old woman ;) ) that bad luck would come if they tried to take occupy the valley by force. And so they never did.

How true this is I don't know, but wouldn't it be a (possibly) fruitful area of inquiry in the effort to determine the reality (or not) of these pyramids? I often think that old folk legends throw up some interesting insights. I asked my friend if he knew of any other stories of the area, but unfortunately he didn't.
 
Mighty_Emperor said:
"Wouldn't any three points form a triangle unless they formed a line (now that would be impressive)?"
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That's the reason I get all hopeful and all skeptical when people report finding "carved human faces" in weathered rocks, not only here on Earth but in photographs received from Mars.

Any three marks or slashes on a rock can usually be interpreted as two eyes and a nose, two eyes and a mouth or indeed one eye plus nose and mouth.
 
UNESCO team to probe Bosnia's "ancient pyramid"

UNESCO team to probe Bosnia's "ancient pyramid"

SARAJEVO (Reuters) - Bosnia's mystery pyramid will now be probed and inspected by a team of experts from the U.N. Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization.

"We shall send a UNESCO expert team to Visoko to determine exactly what it is all about," UNESCO Secretary General Koichiro Matsuura said in an interview published on Monday in Dnevni Avaz newspaper.

Amateur archaeologist Semir Osmanagic has caused a stir with his find, although local and European archaeologists denounce it as nonsense.

Geologist Aly Abd Barakat, an Egyptian researcher sent by Cairo to assist Osmanagic's team last month, has said that the Visocica hill did appear to be a primitive man-made pyramid of uncertain age.

Barakat said huge stone blocks found on the three sides of the hill used the same type of artificial cement used in ancient Egyptian pyramids.

Osmanagic's team is also investigating the Pljesevica hill -- which he calls the Moon Pyramid -- as well as underground tunnels he believes connect three pyramids.

The researchers have also found a sandstone monolith in the underground tunnel with enigmatic symbols engraved on it, which will be sent to Egypt for analysis.

Osmanagic, who studied pyramids in central America for the past 15 years, said that satellite and radar analyses have revealed the perfect geometry of Visocica and precise alignment of its sides with four cardinal points.
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link



That should sort it all out...


edited by TheQuixote: created hyperlink

Thanks for that...wasnt fast enough
 
Things appear to be hotting up. Fingers crossed for something to be there, even if it's not a mammoth complex.
 
Re: UNESCO team to probe Bosnia's "ancient pyramid&quot

kiev85 said:
"That should sort it all out..."
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That's going to depend on how politicized UNESCO is. I can see an extreme reluctance to offend the Bosnians, especially at this point in history.
 
http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/osmanagic/update.html

...

Meanwhile, the professional community has become more outspoken, notably with a recent field trip to the site by Anthony Harding, who is president of the European Association of Archaeologists, and in response to a proposed UNESCO mission to the site.

...

"Not any evidence at all has been found," says Harding, quoted by the Associated Press. "I've seen the site, in my opinion it is entirely natural." But the same article, widely carried with slight variations (here is one example), still describes Osmanagic as "the amateur Bosnian archaeologist who has been investigating Latin American pyramids for 15 years." The conclusions reached by him, that the Maya originally came from outer space, identify the kind of researcher Mr. Osmangic is, but that's ignored by the reporter.

...
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That's the judgement i'm going with.
 
"Harding....said he visited the site briefly....Harding did not visit other sites in the area which Osmanagic and Baraket say are further evidence of the existence of pyramids in Bosnia, such as a tunnel leading to the top of Visocica or a stone pavement made of geometrically regular shaped pieces. Harding said that he had not seen the stone pavement....[but only] look[ed] at photographs....He did not visit the tunnel either."
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[emphasis added throughout]

Isn't this PRECISELY the academic attitude which Charles Hoy Fort spent his literary and research career CONDEMNING? And the reason Forteanism was established in the FIRST place?

I personally believed that this approach had been pretty much dead for decades.

Why did Harding even bother to visit the site if he had no desire to EXAMINE the evidence he was ridiculing? Why bother? What was the POINT of his visit?

Unless of course Harding was SEVERELY misquoted, not once but several times over.
 
ITALIAN Pyramids?

By the way, are there any updates on the three "prehistoric pyramids" reportedly discovered near Milan, Italy, two or three years back?

Whether these Italian "pyramids" are made-man or natural, plus their age/s (which I've not seen estimated) will very much influence my final thoughts on the Bosnian matter.
 
Dr. Schoch

I haven't agreed with all of Dr. Robert Schoch's theories and opinions but have no doubt whatsoever that he will at least be willing to look....at....the....evidence.

Now THERE'S a way to make yourself unpopular.
 
eburacum said:
The news about the pyramid can be found here
http://www.bosnian-pyramid.com/news.html

It is gripping stuff, full of controversy and apparent half-truths.
They have found this
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Ho! Ho! Ho! :rofl:
Source:
groups.google.co.jp/group/sci.archaeology: OT -- anyone fluent in Italian

"Doug Weller" <[email protected]> wrote in message

news:[email protected]...
> This isn't completely OT as it might, or might not, relate to the
Bosnian
> Pyramid (or rather the guy that is going to supervise the
archaeology).
> Google's translation makes little sense, so if anyone can tell me what
it
> says I'd be grateful!

http://www.cgilasti.it/fp/sanita/News/a ... 112004.htm

My Italian is very weak. I don't see any relevance here to the Bosnian
Pyramid, a context where Dario Andretta is described as a geologist and
they boast about his nomination for the Nobel Prize (although there is
no Nobel Prize for geology or any related subject). He is chancellor of
LUMUCI (the Humanitarian Universitas for the Multidisciplinary
International Culture as it's called in "English"), where his current
work seems to be about safety, risk management and quality control of
the work environment. That's what he is doing in your Italian text, and
being paid 720 euros a day for his consultancy work.

For LUMUCI see http://www.lumuci.org/index.php?lg=en

The article points out that LUMUCI is not recognized as a university by
the Italian Ministry of Education, nor is the other university with
which Andretta is associated in the article, the Libera Università
Umanitaria Euromediterranea.

The LUMUCI site has a link to the Sun Pyramid:
http://www.lumuci.org/news.php?id=23&table=news

The Staff page is extremely interesting, full of big names:
http://www.lumuci.org/organigramma.php

According to a Swedish forum, LUMUCI is not so much a university as a
private organization run by Dr Dario Andretta. There are no courses, and
it is not recognized as a university. Prospective students get their
degrees from foreign universities with which LUMUCI is associated,
including one in Bosnia. On their website the organization seems to be
mostly a kind of front for various tourist organizations and a shady
language course where you are offered help to buy houses in Italy.
Andretta can call himself professor by having created his own
university.

That is what the moderator of that forum dug out in answer to a question
about Andretta and his university. He did not know what Andretta's
doctoral thesis was about, but I found it here:

http://biblio.min.unito.it/cgi-bin/ocap ... opt=b&en...
or
http://tinyurl.com/hxdn9

On a Spanish forum Andretta is quoted as saying about the Bosnian
pyramids:

"My impression is that what we have to do with is of high importance for
nowdays research, beside we are convinced what have been discovered is
of highest interest for the geological and archaeological field of
research. The different morphological forms and the geo-morphological
structures have been man-made. The first impression we have is that
those structures have been well thoughted in order to be adapted to the
morphology of the geological zone. As for now we don't have indications
on how the structures have been exactly build, to which civilization
those structures belongs nor for which usage they were destined.
However, we have an important starting point for further in depth
research"

Andretta is apparently the man in the white jacket examining these
"steps":
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/8959/moon0kk.jpg

Alan

...
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Discovery of vertical wall boosts hopes of existence of Bosnian pyramid


Belgrade, June 27: Archaeologists working on an excavation site in Bosnia say there is increasing evidence of the existence of a man-made pyramid at the site.

"The people living in this area discovered the walls a few days ago. The team in charge of pyramids here took over the project and brought in historians and geologists to study the situation. The first thing that was discovered was this area and then, the wall at the back was found. This proved that people were here and interfered in the nature of the mountain here," said Egyptian archaeologist Lamia El Hadidy sitting in front of a stone construction on Sunday (June 18).

It is still impossible to conduct a scientific dating of the find because no artefacts have been found so far.

"We still don't know about the date, we don't have any artefacts, we don't know who and why built up this construction. We don't know what kind of construction it is," said Silvana Cobanov from Slovenia and Nancy Gallou from Greece, both archaeologists who volunteer on the project.

Bosnian-born amateur archaeologist Semir Osmanagic claims that there are three 12,000-year-old pyramids -- the Bosnian Pyramids of Sun, Moon and Dragon - near the Bosnian town of Visoko.

Osmanagic's theory about pyramids in Bosnia has been denounced by local and European archaeologists, who say that ancient civilizations in Europe lived in caves and could not build such structures.

"We have some very exciting results," said Osmanagic.

"Behind me are the terraces which were clearly man-made. We can see the stone plates and stone blocks cut by men, transported here and installed here into the pyramid's walls. These are the terraces I'm standing on. Today, we have just found one vertical wall which might represent an entrance to the pyramid, or maybe a tomb. We will know more a couple of weeks from now, but I would say the results are so exciting and all our thesis have been confirmed every day."

UNESCO Secretary General Koichiro Matsuura recently said that he would send a UNESCO expert team to Visoko to determine exactly what it is all about.
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www.zeenews.com/znnew/articles.asp?aid=305201&sid=FTP
 
I'm still hoping that Osmanagic carries this one off, but even I regard his "theory" that the Mayans of Mexico were able to tinker with the sun as textbook psycho-ceramics.
 
Interesting post here at the Hall of Maat from someone called 'stultitia'.
http://www.hallofmaat.com/read.php?1,40 ... msg-409801
(visit the original post for the links)

Misteriji, a Slovenian-Croatian magazine for paranormal phenomena - [www.misteriji.si] - in this month's issue brings a long article on the Visoko 'pyramids', describing the 'pyramidal complex' in Visoko as the energetic center of the world. The article also reveals an aspect of Mr. Osmanagic's project that has untill now been well hidden, and also some of his own beliefs.

Slovenian speaking people can read it online here: [www.misteriji.si].

Croatian and Bosnian speaking people can read it from these links:
[img391.imageshack.us]
[img465.imageshack.us]
[img391.imageshack.us]
[img465.imageshack.us]
[img391.imageshack.us]

English speaking people will have to excuse me for not having the time to translate the whole article, but here are some of the highlights. Part of the article is a written account by a Ms. Andjela Tabakovic from Zenica who describes her spiritual experience at the Visocica hill, a sort of exorcizing an 'ancient negative energy' or 'Being' that was sleeping under the 'pyramidal complex'. Here are some of the things Osmanagic says in the article:

„The equilateral triangle created by connecting the summits of the pyramids reveals the mystery of the Visoko valley to us. It directs us to the energy source that will explode and flood the world. When that will happen, I don't know. This is not the moment for it yet. Half a year, two months, five years? It will certainly happen. Besides the geometry of the triangle, we also have some other geometries in the wider region…“.

„The pyramids excavations is a process with which we change concept on a global level, we change the concept of thinking, we subvert the world. It's impossible to stop this process, it will spread very fast all over the world. I started that process from the end, when we introduced the multidisciplinary approach here last year. Formally, it's an archaeological monument, but the whole happening has little in common with archaeology. Archaeology is a trade, here we have experts from all possible fields, material ones, that depend on the physical senses, but also here we have people who have developed spiritual senses. Energy in itself is neither good nor weak nor negative, the people are the ones who give it color. We here have colored it positively, from the start everything has been based od sincerity, honesty, voluntarism, good cause; not on elitistic science, but on various knowledges from various fields. Every part of the research is well measured and honest.“

„What you see is the biggest civilizational complex that has ever been built on the face of the planet. That is a shock, a shock after shock, this here is a civilizational complex, and that discovery in itself is a very important thing … There are reasons for which this was not discovered before: the first reason is that it was not yet the time for it, and the second reason is its size. When those two come together, and now it's obviously the time, the Bosnian Pyramidal Complex will be discovered and it will have great influence on the world. Before our eyes, in the following years, Bosnia will find itself in such a role that everyone will be looking at it. But this time for completely different reasons than untill now. Only positive infuences will come and hope for the whole world, not only Bosnia, which is small and insignificant on a map. Curiosity for ancient past will open up, for very ancient past; a very big thing will start to unfold …“

„We are breaking a cloud of negative energy. It has to be done before 2012, so we can receive the historical influence of the cosmic energy from the cosmic center of our galaxy. We will not allow apocalypse happening to us in a few years. We have a possibility that we can use. Or not, since we are blocked – if it should continue that way and we do not use it, we would stay blocked…“

There is also an interesting account of an experiment with water. The article brings a photo of a little bottle of water on grass; caption of the photo reads: „The testing water was placed on a spot at the base of the pyramid where some poeple get so sick that they vomit. Biological analysis of the water in Ljubljana [Slovenia] showed that energies changed the water and that new cells in it developed differently than in the water that was not exposed to the energies at the base of the pyramid.“

It is finally clear that, as Mr. Osmanagic says himself, this project has nothing to do with archaeology, but some sort of New Age preparations for the magic cosmic beam arrival in 2012 (having something to do with the ending of the Mayan calendar?). I have given indications of this aspect of the project before: [www.hallofmaat.com] , by bringing to the attention that volunteers for the excavations are being recruited via Internet portals for paranormal phenomena, etc. My Bosnian blog-colleagues recently came across some blogs written by persons associated with Mr. Osmanagic, whose interests are also in the paranormal – from these blogs we got indications that the Visoko project is, in fact, a project for some sort of a spiritual center. These blogs also mention plans for an August gathering of the Balkan Sai Sathya organizations in Visoko. One of the persons involved in the organization of the gathering wrote [www.blog.hr] : „Those who would not chant mantras can join the excavation activities and other socialy useful work.“

For the record, I believe that people can believe whatever they want, as long as it is not damaging, offensive or intrusive. However, Osmanagic's project is all of it: damaging to the Bosnian-Herzegovinian cultural and historical heritage, offensive to all those who do not share the same point of view or belief, intrusive in sense that a person is stigmatized as antipatriotic or ill-intended if they do not subscribe to the project, and also in sense that the Bosnian-Herzegovinian tax-payers are financing it without being told the true purpose of the project. It is also spiritually false. Suppose pyramids do have special powers or energies, and suppose there are people who genuinely believe in it. They are being duped as well, because there are no pyramids in Bosnia.

Stultitia
[www.stultitia.bloger.hr]
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Biological analysis of the water....showed that energies changed the water....
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What sort of legitimate, accepted analysis, "biological" or other, would show anything of the sort?

Dowsing or radionic analyses do not count, since you can't prove the existence of the paranormal by recourse to paranormal analytical techniques.
 
Ukranian pyramids?

17 July 2006 | 12:26

Scientists to dig mysterious pyramids in Sevastopol


Tens of scientists from different countries explore a place in Sevastopol, where seven ancient pyramids are presumably hidden underground. Archeological dig is underway.

Sevastopol researcher Vitaly Gokh found the whereabouts of pyramids with the help of his unique patented invention, which lets to define any substances underground. For several years he has made a search of minerals and water. Detailed analysis of one of the found constructions showed not natural, but artificial character of its creation.

“We found extremely strong formation, which includes animal protein, gypsum, liquid glass, gravel. It is a man-caused pyramid, which radiates specific energy in certain periods, “Vitaly Gokh narrated.

Ihor Kotelyanets, aid of the head of Sevastopol national university of nuclear energy and industry, together with enthusiasts decided to confirm or refute the discovery.

More than 20 commissions, including international ones, have visited the place recently. The majority of scientists consider that underground pyramids of Sevastopol confirm the guess of American scientists about that 65 million years ago an ancient civilization died out because of fall of giant meteorite.
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http://en.for-ua.com/news/2006/07/17/122656.html

Even allowing for translation issues and he problems that can sneak in with early news reports there is plenty there to make me even more suspicious of the claims being made. We'll have to wait and see.
 
One has to wonder who those 'scientists' actually are.
 
Mighty_Emperor said:
The majority of scientists consider that underground pyramids of Sevastopol confirm the guess of American scientists about that 65 million years ago an ancient civilization died out because of fall of giant meteorite.
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That's what we need - more scientists who are willing to step outside the box of conventional thought, to boldly step forward and declaim "Look at me, I'm completely f***ing mad and I don't care who knows it".
 
Peripart said:
Mighty_Emperor said:
The majority of scientists consider that underground pyramids of Sevastopol confirm the guess of American scientists about that 65 million years ago an ancient civilization died out because of fall of giant meteorite.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
That's what we need - more scientists who are willing to step outside the box of conventional thought, to boldly step forward and declaim "Look at me, I'm completely f***ing mad and I don't care who knows it".
Click to expand...

They're obviously talking about the long lost civilization of the dinosaurs, as described albiet in fictionalised form in Harry Harrison's West of Eden and in Doctor Who and the Silurians.

When you see pictures of the thing from the air, it doesn't even look pyramidal, they get away with this by claiming that two of the sides are 'eroded'.
 
Timble2 said:
They're obviously talking about the long lost civilization of the dinosaurs, as described albiet in fictionalised form in Harry Harrison's West of Eden and in Doctor Who and the Silurians.
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Not forgetting Alien vs Predator. You don't think the film-makers built that pyramid under the Antarctic ice, do you? Clearly, it was already there...

I do suspect that these "scientists" once read some Sci-Fi whilst high on something illegal, and said to themselves "But, hey man, like, you know, what if it's true - that would be, like, WOW. Shit, man, if you, like, imagine that hill over there but with, like, straight sides, it could almost be a pyramid or something".

Anyway, that's my theory. I'm as open to interesting theories as the next man, but I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that all this European Pyramid stuff is more Fi than Sci.
 
Sevastopol researcher Vitaly Gokh found the whereabouts of pyramids with the help of his unique patented invention, which lets to define any substances underground....The majority of scientists consider that underground pyramids of Sevastopol confirm the guess of American scientists about that 65 million years ago an ancient civilization died out because of fall of giant meteorite.
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Woo! And here I thought I believed everything!

Gokh's invention certainly sounds like a "psionic" device, resembling the famous "Hieronymous Machine" of the 1950s.

Does anybody remember the name of the California scientist/"scientist" who in the early 1930s claimed that he'd used some type of radio ray (of his own invention) to trace a vast series of prehistoric catacombs beneath downtown Los Angeles? The maps he drew are still extant.
 
OldTimeRadio said:
Does anybody remember the name of the California scientist/"scientist" who in the early 1930s claimed that he'd used some type of radio ray (of his own invention) to trace a vast series of prehistoric catacombs beneath downtown Los Angeles? The maps he drew are still extant.
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Yes indeed - it was Warren Shufelt. More here:

www.wunderkabinett.co.uk/damndata/index ... d-Men.html
 
Thanks

Tnanks, Emps. I do keep a file on Shufelt, but under his NAME, which didn't do me much good when I couldn't think of it.
 
Re: Thanks

OldTimeRadio said:
Tnanks, Emps. I do keep a file on Shufelt, but under his NAME, which didn't do me much good when I couldn't think of it.
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LOL - no worries. Classification can have its pitfalls ;)
 
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