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Faith Healing

Via The Friendly Atheist Blog Faith Healer Benny Hinn Is Admitted to Intensive Care For Heart Problems who observe "Irony Alert"
From Gospel Herald
Televangelist Benny Hinn was admitted to the intensive care unit in an Orange County, California hospital this weekend after suffering heart problems in Brazil last week.

The 63-year-old healing evangelist is expected to make a full recovery, but recognizes that he may have overdone it during a week-long crusade in South America.
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Hinn's methods and failures are recorded by the Committee for Skeptical Enquiry. They record that out of 5 cases that Hinn Ministries gave out (from an event that claimed 75 healings) none demonstrated any form of healing.

The Friendly Atheist report concludes
When Benny Hinn gets sick, he doesn’t mess around with faith healing. He goes to a hospital. What does he know that he’s not telling his followers?

Read more: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friend...ensive-care-for-heart-problems/#ixzz3VKRvcXQd
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This seems to be a many sided coin. There's healing through faith in god or faith in your ability to be healed, healing through frequencies, energy, reiki etc, and healing with medicines and shamanism. I've experimented with reiki healing myself and others. I never really knew what I was doing, but it didn't seem to matter too much, I just went with what felt natural. I put my hands near or on someone and focus on an electric pulsing sensation. This seems to be a magnetic field. I strengthen the field with meditation and the other person can usually feel it too. This is partly a matter of faith. Disbelief seems to diminish the effects while belief increases the benefits. Ive been able to heal nerve damage, phantom limb pain, back pain, head aches and other disorders related to neurons. It seems that neurons communicate with electrical impulses so healing them with electro magnetic force is pretty straight forward.

Plant medicine is very powerful. The plant is a sentient being that can heal you if you allow it to. Psychedelic plants and mushrooms can heal you even if you resist. They can blow away your barriers and change your life in an instant. San Pedro/ Wachuma cactus seems to work on a physical level first and the mind second. Psilocybin mushrooms work on the mind first and then the body. Non psychedelic plants are very powerful too as long as you eat them immediately after picking. And edible plant will work, as long as it contains living cells.

As far as pure faith healing goes, I have no experiences, although I've heard good things about the church of Christian Science. Their beliefs are less dogmatic than any religion I've encountered and although they read the bible, they view Christ as a teacher of healing, not the one and only messiah.
 
The church of the popular Nigerian evangelist, TB Joshua, has rejected a coroner's call for it to be prosecuted over the collapse of a building last year.

The ruling was "unreasonable, one-sided and biased", it said in a statement.

A multi-storey church hostel collapsed in September in the commercial capital, Lagos, killing 116 people.

TB Joshua's followers regard him as a prophet who can heal all manner of illnesses.

Controversially, this includes HIV/Aids.

People from all over the world visit his mega-church in Lagos.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-33464403
 
And back at the plot, my original purpose of making this video clip was to catch a couple of evangelists from Leeds Vineyard offering faith healing services in the street:

For those not familiar with that group, Association of Vineyard Churches is a US based multinational who did some very aggressive church planting here in the mid-late 90s, riding the wave of PMT (Pre-Millenial Tension).

They've been quiet for a while in my neck of the woods after North Leeds Vineyard went belly up cira mid 2000's, I guess now they're riding the wave of the now and forever austerity


I tried making a complaint about this to the Advertising Standard Association however they don't cover people offering services in the street, the 'alternative' that their site links you to simply redirects to the CAB home page.

I did get this rather interesting response from the local authoristy:

Faith%20Healing%20cuntbags_zpsetjag5zq.jpg


So there you have it. Leeds City Council are ok with faith healing being offered in the street on a Saturday afternoon. o_O

I'm not opposed to freedom of speech here, just ideas that (to risk channeling another poster) belong in the medieval era. And have been known to cost lives when people stop theirs or their offsprings medical treatment in the belief they are 'healed'.
 
As far as I know, 'faith healing' has not yet been made illegal.
I'm guessing they are not charging for this on-the-street faith healing. They're using it as a kind of PR to suck people into joining their church.
Again, that is not illegal.

Is there an active atheist protest squad in Leeds? Perhaps a few of them could stand next to them holding banners to protest?

As for myself (if it was me experiencing this), I'd just try to ignore them.
 
I've seen faith healing work. Most of the time it done by hucksters looking for handouts. But bear in mind there is a group of people who believe and occasionally successfully practice such healing. Personally I wouldn't practice it on a street corner, but not knowing the total viewpoint I can't say this puts them in the category of fraudulent hucksters?
 
I once was healed. Guy never said a word just grabbed my aching head and omg after a wierd paralysed session that was that, huge wave of heat through my skull and fine afterwards.

He never once said he was a healer in all the time prior to it, when I said Jesus wtf he just said he could help people and kept it quiet. No religion, no nonsense just do the deed and continue as normal.

This is the stuff that keeps me interested.
 
What was wrong with your head? Was this just a random guy who walked up to you in the street and grabbed you?
 
Mythopoeika said:
What was wrong with your head? Was this just a random guy who walked up to you in the street and grabbed you?
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Lol sorry I was attempting to make it short. It was an acquaintance who just grabbed my head between his hands when I complained about a migraine.
Normally I (and I think anyone) would have backed away from unrequested physical contact but I was sort of immediately paralysed and I could feel waves of heat going from one hand to the other through my head. Anyway after a few seconds he just released my head (which was now fine) and said not to worry it was a stress headache not health problems! I asked him about it and he said it was just something he could do. He wasnt a religious type or new age fluffy woo at all quite a down to earth guy. I guess there was more to it but didn't like to pry.
 
Well, these guys from Leeds Vineyard couldn't be more busted if 3 of them were caught on camera laying hands on a guy under a banner that says 'Healing' on it in big letters... oh hang on!

12th%20March%20Headingley%202_zpsiefaofhf.jpg


Video clip here, they've been well canny to make it hard to get a close look while being in public but I managed a surprise Roger Cook moment.


You would think claiming to be able to heal would break some law, ASA however won't deal with people in the street scenarios so I guess this sort of 'pop up healing' is a tricky one.

Local authority say they are not fussed (I had only previously told them about the service being offered, not also delivered)

LCC%20Vineyard%202_zpsptcpi1qg.jpg


It's surprised me how this has come out of no-where... there's usually some sort of testing the water first before they get this blatant, or maybe that's happened elsewhere in the country and they've now decided to roll it out nationally.
 
OneWingedBird said:
Well, these guys from Leeds Vineyard couldn't be more busted if 3 of them were caught on camera laying hands on a guy under a banner that says 'Healing' on it in big letters... oh hang on!

12th%20March%20Headingley%202_zpsiefaofhf.jpg


Video clip here, they've been well canny to make it hard to get a close look while being in public but I managed a surprise Roger Cook moment.


You would think claiming to be able to heal would break some law, ASA however won't deal with people in the street scenarios so I guess this sort of 'pop up healing' is a tricky one.

Local authority say they are not fussed (I had only previously told them about the service being offered, not also delivered)

LCC%20Vineyard%202_zpsptcpi1qg.jpg


It's surprised me how this has come out of no-where... there's usually some sort of testing the water first before they get this blatant, or maybe that's happened elsewhere in the country and they've now decided to roll it out nationally.
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Do they want their palms crossing with silver or is it simply an effort to gain recruits?

I haven't spotted any of this in London yet but it can only be a matter of time. Coming soon - street exorcisms - banish your demons in your lunch hour, or street voodoo - put a hex on someone on your way to work.
 
It's a sign that some churches are getting more desperate to recruit new members, I think.
Or maybe it's some opportunistic chancers who have jumped on a bandwagon that earns them 'donations'.
 
I'm guessing it's about recruits, however Vineyard do expect people to 'tithe' 10% of their income to them so recruits = income... maybe more work but so much more profitable than touting for donations.

I don't have a clear idea of why this has come out of no-where, I am wondering if cuts to various bodies that might have put a stop to this in the past has given them a lot more freedom to operate now.

Even if it's technically legal, which I'm not convinced it is, I can't imagine that they wouldn't have been upto this before if there wasn't something keeping them in check.
 
Now that I look at that photo, what I didn't notice before is the box to the right with little brown paper bags in it, with the handles sticking out.

I wonder if they get a goody bag to take away? o_O
 
Coming soon - street exorcisms - banish your demons in your lunch hour, or street voodoo - put a hex on someone on your way to work.
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Vineyard are actually into 'deliverance' as exorcism is known now, so it's entirely possible they would if they thought the situation demanded it.

Don't think they do hexes. I might have a go though for folding stuff. :p
 
Is this why church attendance is plummeting? The preachers have been turfed out into the street to continue their scams, er, ministries?
 
GNC said:
Is this why church attendance is plummeting? The preachers have been turfed out into the street to continue their scams, er, ministries?
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This is making the ridiculous assumption that all ministers and revenants that represent the Lord are street side hucksters. As for attendance dropping off this is a personal decision and the Lord was never particularly concerned with converting those who had little or no interest.
 
Well there certainly enough of those scum buckets around.
 
Maybe out on the street's the best place for them, so you can cross the road to avoid them. Seriously, how desperate would you need to be to be so-called "healed" in front of passersby going shopping? Ever so slightly cheapens the word of the Lord, no?
 
If it makes a bit more sense, Leeds Vineyard seem to be using the Methodist Church across the road from there as their regular meeting place.

Might drop them an email too just to make sure they know what's going on.
 
Right, so they have a base of operations? I had a vision of roaming healers stalking the streets of Leeds, picking up the gullible and vulnerable (and putting them back down again).
 
A Seattle man running a so-called Christian prayer website and other businesses will return millions of dollars to consumers nationwide who paid for prayers, the Washington state attorney general said.

As part of an agreement, Benjamin Rogovy will pay back as much as $7.75 million to approximately 165,000 customers who were victims of Rogovy's deceptive business practices in several companies he ran, Attorney General Bob Ferguson said Wednesday.

Rogovy used systematic deception in his operation of the Christian Prayer Center, creating fake religious leaders and posting false testimonials on its website to entice people to pay from $9 to $35 for prayers, Ferguson said. The attorney general says Rogovy collected over $7 million from consumers between 2011 and 2015 and that his actions violate the state Consumer Protection Act.

"What I will not tolerate is unlawful businesses that prey upon people —taking advantage of their faith or their need for help— in order to make a quick buck," Ferguson said in a news release. ...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/man-to-return-millions-to-people-for-online-prayers/ar-BBqyXsE
 
Do people get a refund if the prayers didn't work?
 
Mythopoeika said:
Do people get a refund if the prayers didn't work?
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Prayers to the Lord are request only. Any bribes or gifts made to men (regardless of their title) is nonsense. The Lord tells us to pray as group at times and times alone, but never to ask for money for prayers or faith based services. This guy is a shameless scum bag.
 
ramonmercado said:
A Seattle man running a so-called Christian prayer website and other businesses will return millions of dollars to consumers nationwide who paid for prayers, the Washington state attorney general said.

As part of an agreement, Benjamin Rogovy will pay back as much as $7.75 million to approximately 165,000 customers who were victims of Rogovy's deceptive business practices in several companies he ran, Attorney General Bob Ferguson said Wednesday.

Rogovy used systematic deception in his operation of the Christian Prayer Center, creating fake religious leaders and posting false testimonials on its website to entice people to pay from $9 to $35 for prayers, Ferguson said. The attorney general says Rogovy collected over $7 million from consumers between 2011 and 2015 and that his actions violate the state Consumer Protection Act.

"What I will not tolerate is unlawful businesses that prey upon people —taking advantage of their faith or their need for help— in order to make a quick buck," Ferguson said in a news release. ...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/man-to-return-millions-to-people-for-online-prayers/ar-BBqyXsE
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No mention of jail...He deserves a banging up as well as repaying.
 
Right, so they have a base of operations? I had a vision of roaming healers stalking the streets of Leeds, picking up the gullible and vulnerable (and putting them back down again).
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Yes, I've found the Twitter account for the local Methodist Circuit and tweeted photo and video to them. :D

Last time I locked horns with them they were using a local primary school as their meeting place.
 
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