Fictional Influences On Ufology

[Graylien]

The image of the beautiful nearly-naked girl, shrieking or swooning as she was carried off or otherwise tormented was a ubiquitous theme for lurid pulp magazine cover art. Her tormentors were occasionally "Martians" or other monsters, but more often mobsters, gorillas, Chinese fiends, Mexican banditos, pirates, African natives, lusty Arab sheiks, Nazis, Russkies, mad scientists, etc.

Quite so. It's an age-old theme which has simply been given a new 'twist' by contemporary abduction researchers. When aliens obligingly act like our own long-standing fictional archetypes, that in itself should surely raise suspicions as to their objective reality?

The alleged impact on the ufological imagination of generic saucer-craft from pulp magazines / Buster Crabbe serials contrasts starkly with the utter non-impact of vastly more prevalent motifs like Luke Skywalker's X-wing fighter, or the Starship Enterprise, etc.

But both those cultural icons came along decades after the disc had established itself in the public imagination as the archetypal UFO shape.

 

[Lempkd]

The important thing about Arnold is that he didn't originally claim that he saw flying saucers: he simply said he saw a group of unknown aircraft which flew with a bouncing motion "like a saucer would if you skipped it across the water."

Thanks for posting those covers. Great stuff. I had forgotten about Arnold not actually calling it that. Yes.

It sounds right but something just doesn't quite add up, Grey. You could be right, more likely than not, truth being often stranger than fiction and that would be pretty strange indeed, crazy enough, that a delusional trend was created via these magazines and movies that led to the UFO craze—but is it simple enough to explain the facts, or rather the lack of facts which I readily admit there isn’t enough of to back any of it up, but I feel it’s like a murder mystery, few clues, part of me wants to solve it one way or the other. Your points here are pretty good but we'd have to explain the mechanism.

Given the nature of the crackpot religious fringe amongst us, the things people believe from mythology, it is possible UFOs are related phenomena to miracles, visions, wanting to believe to the point where you do believe literally in other people's fictions. But I do recall vaguely the stats on the types of individuals, they seem to tend to be more often than not--maybe only because they came forward or where sought after, for a time anyway-- educated people, not homeless crazy people, alcoholics, people with obvious mental illnesses, more of these have perhaps lashed onto this now—but in the early days, and specific sightings, non-alien for example?--of course after the Nazi’s what does culture\education ultimately amount to in terms of what one believes? Even smart people can deceive themselves even if they don't do bad things.

So I’m stuck there. If I’m wrong about the stats, someone let me know.

It seems though if it was that easy, to start these delusional trends via pulps and B-movies, just by looking at this stuff, children should be a key group to show signs of acting out such delusions early on, even in terms of storybook images say. Adult have been the focus of this. Has there been a good study of children and Ufos and the question of the reality of daydreams after watching horror and science fiction films? How far do children go in their fantasies?

I think dreeness is right though, I checked out a book on pulp covers, it’s pretty lurid, and science fiction images weren't the only images seen, if these have influenced American culture, it could explain something maybe, one would have to take into account the generational changes, the earlier generation influencing but was it a sick influence on people or good for them? The Wertham question about comic books comes into play here. Thre were some serious social critics who saw them as detrimental to mental health.

"Her tormentors were occasionally "Martians" or other monsters, but more often mobsters, gorillas, Chinese fiends, Mexican banditos, pirates, African natives, lusty Arab sheiks, Nazis, Russkies, mad scientists, etc.)"

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not convinced by the claim that because people are not diagnosed as mentally ill, they must therefore have perfect memory or accurate perception. Most research that I am aware of would indicate that memory is reconstructed - possibly in relation to belief patterns, current knowledge, stored knowledge or what have you. Just because you're educated, it doesn't mean that you don't misperceive - most of us do.

I think the idea of the alien invading our conscious via media images, increased leisure time, shrinking world (via communications) and during an era where technology exploded offers a very nice solution...sadly, not the only solution.

 

[Lempkd]

I agree, Gada on that point...I saw one of these crime history shows where a lady sent a black guy to jail for eleven years because she misidentified him, insisted he was the one and then the DNA evidence said he wasn’t guy. The interesting thing is his facial appearance, of not having any emotions convinced a juror that he was the guy. He looked like a rapist, accordingly—how many of us could be cast as murderers and rapists because we look like what people think such people look like. The young man at one point when he was found not quilty on retrial shed some tears, hugging his mother, but he face still remained sort of inexpressive, sort of. because it seemed sad to me—if you have an inexpressive face or features, a cold face--beware! So your point is well taken—if we can convict people because we think they look cold hearted, well...perception can indeed be at odds with reality.

 

[dreeness]

The idea of the "alien", the mysterious inscrutable outsider, the strange and terrifying foreigner, it is something you can see in current events today. On CNN and other news channels, there are constant stories like this:

(anxiety music) Night vision footage of the Mexican border, green glowing figures lurk in the shadows. The announcer's voice, "Illegal aliens! Violating America's borders!" More night vision footage, the green glowing figures rush forward, climbing over border barricades. The announcer's voice, "The invasion continues!" (anxiety music builds to a crescendo)

 

[Graylien]

This kind of discussion can often get trapped in an either/or kind of rut. Eithier the UFOs are real, or they're misperceptions fuelled by the media and popular culture.

Personally, I think that the phenomena itself may well be real, but our interpretation of it is perpetually clouded by our own cultural perspectives.

In ages past, people thought that the Gods hurled stones down from the sky in anger. With the dawning Age of Reason, scientists dismissed this primitive superstition by pointing out that since there were no stones in the sky, stones could hardly fall from the heavens. They might appear to, but what people were really seeing was lighting striking small rocks on the ground.

Now. of course, we know better. The meteorites were real enough all along. But both the cultural and scientific beliefs surrounding them were completely wrong.

So, the fact that aliens were often depicted stealing our women on lurid pulp covers may not explain why people see strange things in the sky. But what it might explain is our interpretation of those strange things in the sky; i.e, that they are aliens who have come to steal our women.

Can you dig it?

 

[Lempkd]

Yes, I can dig it, the mystery deepens, wow...what the hell is happening? I feel like the detective who is on a wild goose chase! But the caper doesn't end until the fat lady sings, but will I be there to hear her.

 

[Analis]

BOOKESMITH's demonstration is flawed on many levels. Because it is based on wrong assumptions. He acknowledges that if there were some disks and spheres in pre-WW2 S-F, they comprised only a small portion of the various fictitious spaceships from this era. Rockets or mixings of locomotive and submarine were by far the most numerous. If the collective mind was impregnated by anything, it was by these, and not by saucers or spheres. So, I agree that if UFOs came from popular culture, there should have been an epidemic of rockets over the USA (and the rest of the world). But flying disks remained uncommon in S-F after ARNOLD's sighting. It seems that S-F has a reluctance to consider them. They're rare in such classics as Star Trek, Star Wars, or tha works of great S-F novelists (such as ASIMOV, VLARKE, HEINLEIN...). So, there should have been an epidemic of rockets in the 50s and the 60s too.
The same could be told of UFO occupants: some were macrocephal humanoids; but various bug-eyed or tentacular monsters were more prominent on pulp magazines covers. Nonetheless, they're far less numerous in UFO sightings (all statistics say less than 10%).

His demonstration assumes that social mythology giving rise to paranormal sightings is a normal process. The previous posts give plenty of evidence of the contrary. Gandhidave gave a perfect example. Vampires are a (very) prominent mythological figure, and for much longer than "Buffy the Vampire Slayer". There were many waves of interest, in the 30s, the 40s, the 50s... hey, every decade. They're present in much literature, movies, tv. So, if myths were responsible for waves of sightings, there should be plenty of reports of vampires. In the countryside, in towns, during hypnagogic or hypnopompic experiences... Equally absent or exceedingly rare are werewolves (apart from some bizarre sightings in Michigan), super-heroes, disintegrator rays, dinosaurs... Children have the most imaginative and easily influenced mind; they distinguish less between "reality" and fiction, and fall more often victim of expectancy than adults. But none of them reports sightings of Father Christmas/Santa Claus (apart from actors at shopping centers...), or Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse and so on...

The problem with psychosocial hypothesis is that it ignores both psychology and sociology. That's why so few psychologists and sociologists were seduced by it...

 

[Anonymous]

Exactly. However, I would've thought some sociologists would be taken in, when one considers sociological theories (always good for laugh) Although, on reflection, when I hear people talking about psychosocial explanations invariably they are those with training in neither (see above) and most often (IMO) co-opt the phrase into a post modernist type structure thus attempting to fake some scientific cred. Gah.

 

[Graylien]

1) Well, actually there were rockets sighted at the time - the so-called ghost-rockets seen over northern Europe - particularly Sweden if I remember rightly. And cigar-shaped craft are still sighted to this day.

2) I think you're underestimating the impact of the Arnold sighting. Remember, Arnold didn't actually see saucers - but he was misreported as having seen saucers. Then suddenly people were seeing saucers all over the shop. Why? If Arnold's 'boomerangs' were the real thing, why weren't people seeing boomerangs? Where did all the boomerangs go? On the other hand, if you're going to rule the Arnold sighting out of the equation, then you still have to explain why fleets of flying saucers should choose to visit us the very moment after the press accidentally invented the phrase "flying saucer".

3) There are numerous reports of humanoids toting ray guns (or at least tube-shaped devices that emitted flashes of light and paralysed witnesses). Especially during the 1950's.

4) In 1950's America, vampires were generally regarded as being creatures of myth. Aliens weren't. The whole concept of Vampires is intrinsically irrational to the modern mind. The concept of alien explorers , on the other hand, is quite rational. Especially as - at the time - the possibility of life elsewhere in the Solar System hadn't been ruled out. So people wouldn't be expecting to meet vampires - but they might well be expecting to meet aliens.

Moreover, you could argue that elements of vampiric belief actually have sneaked into modern alien mythology. Consider the aliens' fondness for taking blood samples in the night, or for draining cattle of blood, for example. Consider too their habit of floating in through bedroom windows and paralysing victims with their hypnotic eyes. Not a million miles away from the modus operandi of the classic Hollywood vampire (though a great deal removed from the genuine folklore).

5) Kid's have seen Santa 'for real'. There's a thread (well, actually two threads merged into one) about that here.

 

[Anonymous]

I also believe that the rocket tests conducted in Germany (1920's) were also reported quite widely. Further, articles were written and stories based on this knowledge. Indeed, I would posit that much of the scientific (read sci fi) basic standards were becoming part of the public consciousness by the end of the victorian era. Indeed, many of the reports, stories and what have you after this point would seem, in hindsight, to be a natural progression.

 

[Graylien]

Although, on reflection, when I hear people talking about psychosocial explanations invariably they are those with training in neither

Susan Clancy? Michael Persinger? Carl Jung?

 

[Anonymous]

Jung - nope, he was a psychoanalyst. Thus a social commentator and pre the cogntive revolution in psychology (for formulating his learning). Persinger, has interesting views as to what transcranial magnetic stimulation does and how to explain it in a social context, but I don't think he uses the phraseology of psycho-social (though, on this, and at this time of night without checking) but I could be wrong. Clancy is more to do with how cognition and memory are related to the social environment, and this is not the same as 'psycho-social' when used in that format.. However, I do know what you are getting at Gray; and I do believe that culture plays some part in our mystical perceptions, but I believe more passionately that it is thesimilarity between our brain structures, and not culture, that produces the similarity in perceived 'odd' events.

 

[rynner2]

But flying disks remained uncommon in S-F after ARNOLD's sighting. It seems that S-F has a reluctance to consider them. They're rare in such classics as Star Trek...

Erm, not so!

The USS Enterprise itself consists of a disc with attached drive units. In an emergency, the disc can be separated from the rest of the vessel.

No doubt more serious Trekkies than I can supply chapter and verse! 8)

 

[Anonymous]

That's the galaxy class (next gen) version that separates. However, lost in space, forbidden planet etc all used saucer iconography.

 

[rynner2]

That's the galaxy class (next gen) version that separates. However, lost in space, forbidden planet etc all used saucer iconography.

Yes, how could I forget Forbidden Planet?

I saw that in the cinema when it first came out...


Do they still have cinemas? :?

 

[Anonymous]

Good lord no....... Multiplexscreen thingummy things. Basically, they've tried to make the seats seem more comfy, but in fact they are not. There is only the one film (and so the idea of an afternoon or evening out, in toto, has gone) and there are a huge amount of adverts (which be very happy that you have not seen). Nasty foodstuffs, so overpriced that a second mortgage is advisable and ....oh well........make up anything you like as to why it woud be horrible, and I reckon that you'd probably not be that far from the truth.....I'd put in a laugh emoticon, but....

 

[Analis]

PSH pose many other problems. At first, its proponents' attitude. I could say that

BROOKESMITH was not interested by the contents of the HILL's sighting. How does he explain the sequels and so on... This is no problem for him, because material facts and psychosocial hypothesis are the greatest ennemies. I'll speak only of theories.


*>Graylien:
1) Yes, and there are occasionnaly some now. But "ghost rocket" was only a nickname, like "flying saucer/disk". And some of the UFOs seen over Sweden were discoïd, egg-shaped or
spherical. And even torpedo-shaped ones exhibited only occasionnally fire at proximal end. In fact, disks and spheres were common during WW2 and pre-WW2. Or in the 19th century. There were Robur-like sigthings (the equivalent of today's pseudo-planes or helicopters) and disks, eggs and football shaped UFOs. And there were sighting of disks during the first
half-year of 47.
But if people were prone to hallucinate rockets, why weren't any more they after 1946? So, when it better fits their needs, PSHers say that rockets were seen because it fits the theory. When it comes to disks, weel they forget it. So, were rockets or saucers the dominant figure in S-F? And what is their theory? "Well, people saw rockets because they
were the dominant paradigm at this time" "But why did they see disks?" "Because they were the most prominent figure in S-F." "But you told it was rockets!" This way of adaptating facts to theory (without noting inconsistencies) and permutating arguments is one of their
keymarks.
And the usual cigar-shaped UFO is no rocket. It has most often a smooth surface, with no openings. And no visible engine. So an object alien to earthly technology, like saucers and spheres.

2) Did ARNOLD's sighting have much importance. At the time, it was seen only as a passing mediatic fashion. And it was not linked to e.t.s.: they were so negliglibly held that they didn't even feature in a Gallup poll released on 14 August 1947. Only two witnesses expressed the idea that they could have seen spaceships. The Gallup poll shows that most of people thought of illusions or weather balloons. And then US secret crafts.
Aliens were mentionned only as jokes, after all the other explanations("Russian crafts above our skies? Ridiculous! Next time, I suppose you'll be even more absurd and speak of Martians!") So, the 1947 wave as well as ARNOLD's sighting didn't convince a lot of people that there was anything extraordinary in the skies. Moreover, the wave had begun before 24 June 1947 and gaining media prominence. And it began to falter soon after. Northern Americans in 1947 were not predisposed to the idea of alien visitation. This is a psychosocial myth.
The idea of flying saucer would have quickly fallen into oblivion if not for new sightings. People like major KEYHOE (sceptic at the beginning) investigated them, because unlike others he didn't put theories before fact. This is called the scientific method, even if not handled by scientists. It is far away from PSHers methods. Why did people in this era see flying saucers? Our old friend William of Occam will help us: because they saw disks. This is by far the most parsimonious hypothesis, not PSH.

3) Paralizing cylinders, yes. But no disintegrator rays. I have a vague recollection of a contactee's tale in Provence, but it's negligible. And why only in the 50s? In fact, there are other examples of paralyzing devices after, as in the Valensole case. But still no disintegrator rays. Surprizing, from a PSH viewpoint; because they were and still are a prominent feature of S-F. In movies, tv, novels and comics. To the point they were often equated to e.t.s and flying saucers (I remember clearly this). I'll mention only some screen examples: "The Day the Earth stood still", "The War of the Worlds", "Earth versus Flying Saucers", "The Invaders", some episodes of "The Outer Limits", "Star Trek" (all series and films) and so on...
To give another example of nonexistent sci-fi influence, there were many sightings of cosmonaut-like humanoids in the 50s. Skeptics say that they came from cultural influences. So, with the Appolo landings, there should have been much more. But in the 70s, beings in spacesuits all but disappeared. They're now exceedingly rare.

4) I don't know what you're calling America, but if it's the USA, that's very contentious. Aliens, for many people were not more "rationnal" than vampires or demons. Even now, on a great portion of US territory, it remains true. In the Bible Belt and West, a lot of folks, and maybe a majority, are more prone to believe in satanic creatures of any kind. From a psychosociologist stand, it's very surprising that the UFO waves of the 40s and the 50s (and after) happened mostly in rural areas. Where the influence of S-F was far less important. If PSH had the slightest chance of being true, they should have happened almost only above urban areas, where S-F literature and movies were mostly diffused. The PSH is truly a very "surprising" theory, because it systematically misses its target.
And I still don't understand why vampires (or demons) in a nonequivocal form don't figure much more often in reports. PSHers say that most CE3s and CE4s occur in hypnagogic or hypnopompic states, or are other kinds of hallucinations. There's nothing rationnal in these psychological states, they act on a symbolic level. As always, PSHers claims change according to their needs, in a circular manner and putting apart contradictions ("people see these things because they're rationnal" or "people see these things because they're symbolic"). When was a PSHer bothered by such "details"? There's a name for this kind of reasoning: pseudo-scientific.
As for discrete vampiric features merged in UFO lore, I agree that there seem to be. For example, Chupacabras. But they differ widely from classic vampire lore. Similarities with fairy lore are present too. This pinpoints to an arbitrary selection of features by something else. These are arguments for a valleian or keelian viewpoint, not for PSH.

5) They're marginal. If PSH was true, there's no reason they wouldn't be much more numerous. Belief in Santa Claus being more widespread that this in aliens. I made surveys among people I know. Nobody has ever heard, even remotely, of such a case (and what about the other fictive characters?). And relating to UFO abductions, early 80s studies show that involved children were responsive only to the image of their supposed tormentors, not to much more prominent cultural icons (including fictive e.t.s). No contamination can be argued.

And by any way, sane people don't hallucinate when they walk in the country side. Hallucinations happen only in very precise conditions. That's why (true) sociologists and psychologists don't take PSH seriously. Psychosocioufologists have no mechanism to explain how those sightings happen. Ah, PSH, what a wonderful thing. Psychology ignoring psychology, sociology ignoring sociology...

With PSH "reasoning", one can achieve very funny results. The french ufologist Didier CHARNAY made a hilarious but efficient demonstration that psychosocioufologists didn't exist. Following their usual argumentation... But the PSHers are the only people in the world to know that radar operators hallucinate daily. They work on devices invented in 30s' S-F... And they are alone to know that astronomers were victims of their imagination as they observed the tiny planet Io, first of the large satellites of Jupiter. Because the astronomers coudn't recognize that their visions of a planet with ashen skies and sulphur-filled craters came directly from pulp magazines, where they abound... PSH is as
funny as some of nuts-and-boltists or abductologists claims. Its methodology is very much the same and as pseudoscientific. As Budd HOPKINS speaks about alien-human hybridization, he deliberately ignores arguments which show that his theories are ridiculous. So do the psychosocios, Susan CLANCY being a fine example (and JUNG didn't believe in PSH, on the contrary, he thought that ETH was the most plausible).

*>rynner: yes, but people don't think of it as a flying saucer when they see it for the first time.

*> Gadaffiduck: As for "Lost in Space", true. But it concerns only a small part of their crafts. Any S-F saga has its occasionnal disk. For example, the probe droid in "Star Wars: The Empire strikes back" is vaguely saucer-like. But they're only that, occasionnal. And usually much more baroque, with complex parts (even the ufology-inspired "Close
Encounters of the third Kind" had a much more complex saucer than what witnesses usually describe). And in comics, saucers are uncommon too. I remember reading a Marvel comics, where a character explained that saucers were rarely used because they were less efficient (only Skrulls use some in this universe).

 

[Graylien]

I don't believe that the psychosocial theory can completely explain UFO/alien experiences. After all, we're all subject to much the same cultural pressures, so if that was all there was to it, we'd all be seeing aliens!

However, whatever the alien/UFO experience actually is, I do believe that our perception of it is coloured by psychosocial factors.

And I'm not sure why you're promoting Major Keyhoe as a model of scientific rationality. He was the one who started the whole ETH nonsense on the basis of - well, what evidence exactly? Other than hearsay and conjecture? In his book Flying Saucers Are Real, he makes a great deal of capital out of the unfortunate (and as we now know, non-alien related) death of Thomas Mantell, as well as falsely stating that Kenneth Arnold had seen "nine gleaming disks" when Arnold had actually seen no such thing. Hardly the most auspicious start to the ETH theory.

And 50 years after Keyhoes book, the nuts-and-bolts school of thought is still unable to put forward a single piece of convincing physical or photographic evidence. Why exactly is that? Just where are those "material facts" you speak so highly of?

 

[Timble2]

*< Gadaffiduck: As for "Lost in Space", true. But it cocncerns only a small part of their crafts. Any S-F saga has its occasionnal disk. For example, the probe droid in "Star Wars: The Empire strikes back" is vaguely saucer-like.

In the TV series, as opposed to the movie, the Jupiter 2 in Lost in space is a classic flying saucer.

The Millenium Falcon was very saucer-like.

On an earlier point about the Enterprise, IIRC from the original Making of Star Trek book, the saucer was a quite deliberate choice to remind people of flying saucers as futuristic spacecraft, without going for straight Flying Saucer design

 

[Analis]

*>Graylien: There is indeed a striking similarity between ETH proponents (at least in its naive form) and psychosocioufologists, like mirror images. This was one of the highlights of Didier CHARNAY's demonstration: if they existed, they should be rigorous and scientific; so they should at first study, and only then conclude. Not conclude first, and then select data supporting their conclusions, like pro-ETH ufologs did before them. And like nuts-and-boltists, they made no progress from the beginning.

KEYHOE had his flaws. But he was a rationnal man, and never prone to exageration. Some even said he was too careful, or that he was a debunker or a disinformer. And at the time, people didn't know what a Skyhook balloon was. An interesting feature: KEYHOE was a S-F writer. If he was sceptic at the beginning, he explained that this was partly because of this background. For him, aliens were funny creatures, the kind with antennas and peduncled eyes, coming aboard weird spaceships.
As for the mention of ARNOLD's disks in many pictures and commentaries, it is a classic example of retrospective shoehorning, more or less conscious. I too wondered at the coincidence between ARNOLD's words and the most common UFO shape. But coincidences are common in the paranormal. And maybe the reporter who put the expression had heard of previous disk sightings.

I'm not a nuts-and-boltist. But I won't say that there isn't material data. It exists, but it is disappointing. There are photos which can't be easily explained, like at Mc Minville or Lac Chauvet. That's not to say they're definitely unexplainable, but they couldn't be easily dismissed until now. And cases like Valensole, Falcon Lake, Dr X or Council Bluff, among others left significant material proofs. This kind of evidence can't tell us what the phenomenon is, but it tells that something anomalous did happen.

And are our perceptions of paranormal affected by our cultural environment? It is beyond doubt. When a person sees the moon and thinks it is a UFO (whatever that means), she is influenced. But people reporting misperceptions usually give accurate descriptions. And misidentifications tend to decrease, thanks to better information. So, we can't exactly say that they "make us see things". For more complex sightings, this is more difficult. For an example of interactions between pop culture and paranormal in a high strangeness UFO abduction case, with unusually high evidence, let's take the Carl HIGDON Case. The 29 October 1974, he was hunting in a Wyoming forest. He fired at a majestic and strange elk. His rifle (a 7mm Magnum) misshot, the bullet falling at a few meters farther. He picked it up, as the elk was slowly going away. Suddenly, he saw a humanoid, clad all in black. He followed him to his cube-like ship (seeming larger when seen from the interior). Then he was carried away to the e.t.s' planet. Where he spotted a futuristic city, much like one from a pulp magazine. The e.t.s intented to use him as a test subject. But soon after, they told him that he was unfit, but they had "repaired" something. So they went back to Earth. He could briefly see that the aliens teleported his car, and then fell into unconsciousness. As people found him, he was so disturbed that he couldn't even recognise his own car. But he had many sequels. One of his lungs was atrophied since a tuberculosis attack in 1958. He soon found that it was completely healed and functionnal. His calculus had been removed. His car was in an unreachable quagmire. And the bullet seemed to have been turned upside down, no expert could explain it.
So something out of the ordinary did happen. But the aliens' behaviour seemed absurd. And it is difficult, at first hand, to believe he saw a city so similar to those we see in classic S-F. It sounds "too good to be true". This happening, like many others, suggests a deceitful intelligence more than a factual alien abduction. It selects arbitrarily some parts of pop-culture (and not others), to model them into such scenarios. Something like VALLEE's system of control; or our old friend Charles FORT's character, the Cosmic Trickster. Of course, both PSHers and classic ETHers are infuriated by such suppositions. But it certainly better fits the facts.

*>Timble2: I didn't recognize the Millenium Falcon as a saucer. It is possible that, like the USS Enterprise, it was designed like a saucer "not being a true flying saucer". This shows us that S-F artists are not especially attracted to this shape. Too simple, maybe.

 

[dreeness]

Then again, the Falcon had a prominent radar dish "saucer", for that matter the Death Star could be considered as a series of discs stacked to form a sphere, maybe it depends on how far the definition of "saucer" is stretched.

 

[Graylien]

I thought this was quite neat - it's a detail from the December 1930 cover of Amazing Stories (the artist is Leo Morey):

Full cover here.

They're rather plump and the eyes aren't as prominent as they are in modern depictions, but they certainly have a lot in common with the modern graylien.

 

[uair01]

Recently I've been re-reading the stories of Lovecraft and when I stumbled upon this one I wondered whether the contactees didn't get some inspiration from here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Whisperer_in_Darkness

"The Whisperer in Darkness" is a short story by H.P. Lovecraft, written in 1930. The story was first published in the August 1931 issue of Weird Tales. Similar to "The Colour Out of Space" (1927), it is a blend of horror and science fiction.

It contains - among many other classic SF themes - these ideas:

All that the Outer Ones wish of man is peace and non-molestation and an increasing intellectual rapport.  This latter is absolutely necessary now that our inventions and devices are expanding our knowledge and motions, and making it more and more impossible for the Outer Ones? necessary outposts to exist secretly on this planet.  The alien beings desire to know mankind more fully, and to have a few of mankind?s philosophic and scientific leaders know more about them.

And:

As a beginning of this improved rapport, the Outer Ones have naturally chosen me—­whose knowledge of them is already so considerable—­as their primary interpreter on earth.  Much was told me last night—­facts of the most stupendous and vista-opening nature—­ and more will be subsequently communicated to me both orally and in writing.

It all sounds so very like the classic contactee case and I'm wondering where Lovecraft got his ideas from.

And:

Their main immediate abode is a still undiscovered and almost lightless planet at the very edge of our solar system—­beyond Neptune, and the ninth in distance from the sun.  It is, as we have inferred, the object mystically hinted at as “Yuggoth” in certain ancient and forbidden writings; and it will soon be the scene of a strange focussing of thought upon our world in an effort to facilitate mental rapport.  I would not be surprised if astronomers become sufficiently sensitive to these thought-currents to discover Yuggoth when the Outer Ones wish them to do so.

 

[Graylien]

I've read that one - it's really creepy. The earlier part of the story when the farmer is trapped inside his house listening to the aliens skitter across the roof while his dogs howl in terror reminds me of the Hopkinsville Goblin siege.

 

[furby2006]

Very good idea! However, there is one minor problem - the fact is, crimes are assumed to be human related. UFO's and such are not. Therefore, it would seem that the mind would have a more difficult time assigning any type of fantasy trapping to it.

That said, one such case comes to mind - OJ Simpson. That case had all the hard evidence needed to convict him, yet the jury was swayed into a verdict of not guilty. The argument advanced by the defense rested on the idea of a conspiracy to frame Simpson. Why would this actually be believed? Let's look at popular culture :

The X-files was very popular at the time, which also led to a slew of conspiracy laden TV series and movies. Perhaps the jury and public was more able to accept the idea of a far reaching conspiracy to frame one man because of this?

A more interesting question would be has anybody done any studies into whether or not witnesses to crimes are influenced by what they have seen on TV or read in books.
This would be interesting because unlike UFOs everyone knows that a crime actually has been committed so that it would be eassier to check whether witness descriptions bear any relations to crime dramas.
After all it must be remembered that just because a witness is a SF fan does not by itself preclude the event (whether it be abduction, lights in the sky, etc) actually having happened all it does is possibly provide an explanation as to how it is perceived.
And then there is the flipside of the coin did early examples of abductions in SFD mags influence reports or were those depictions writers trying to explain there own unreported abductions as there was no access to anetwork of "hidden memories" experts to discover them until the 60s. And the mere fact that writers are logically deciding what should happen during such an experience are doing so on the basis of what it would be like and would only have a massive effect if they came up with illogical and improbable ideas that then were reported. for example after the "medical examinations" started being reprted there is only so many ways for such exams to happen so it would be expected that fiction and possible fact to coincide but was there any major surge in aliens disentigrating in a blur of light as in The Invaders and Stra Trek.
To get back to my beginning the only way to decide how big an effect fiction has on these reports would be to examine a control group of crime/detective fans who have been witnesses and see if they showed any deviation from the actual occurrences they are repprting and by how much.

 

[furby2006]

Another area that may have influenced the acceptance of th"Grey" into UFO folklore - Take a good look at the nearest cat. Look at the shape of their eyes and how the eyes seem to be totally black and large for their head.

Now take a look at deer - same thing.

Look at insects - same thing.

Perhaps our mind has assigned the look to the greys because of the scenes from nature around us.

 

[eburacum]

I do know that the one instance of sleep paralysis I have had involved the materialisation of a classic grey alien in the corner of my room. As I have said before on this board, I am pretty sure that the image I saw was almost identical to this chap;
http://www.startrek.com/imageuploads/20 ... 20x240.jpg

To be honest I don't know if that identification is a real memory of my experience, or a back-formation or false memory or whatever; after all, I was almost asleep at the time.
But that doesn't matter; the important thing is, that is how I remember the phenomenon, and the image has almost certainly been influenced by media images. So I can't see any reason to dismiss the psychosocial hypothesis; in fact my experience seems to validate that hypothesis very strongly.

 

[dreeness]

(... which is a bit of a bugger, since the psychosocial hypothesis categorically dismisses experiential evidence.)

 

[furby2006]

I do know that the one instance of sleep paralysis I have had involved the materialisation of a classic grey alien in the corner of my room. As I have said before on this board, I am pretty sure that the image I saw was almost identical to this chap;
http://www.startrek.com/imageuploads/20 ... 20x240.jpg

To be honest I don't know if that identification is a real memory of my experience, or a back-formation or false memory or whatever; after all, I was almost asleep at the time.
But that doesn't matter; the important thing is, that is how I remember the phenomenon, and the image has almost certainly been influenced by media images. So I can't see any reason to dismiss the psychosocial hypothesis; in fact my experience seems to validate that hypothesis very strongly.

I remember one instance of sleep paralysis when I was a young child. I woke up and was absolutely convinced that a grey was standing over me. Turns out it was a clothes tree.