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Forgotten History

escargot said:
Didn't they also have to slice up a passing randomer every time they unsheathed their usual sword, because it needed to taste blood or whatever? I may have read that in 'Shogun'.

For me, the most impressive Samauri/Bushido practice is that of elevating the left knee while squatting to defaecate. I always do this when out surveying my estates.
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There's also the old Furphy that after smithing the sword, the Smith would then quench it in human flesh, rather than in water - anybody heard that one?
 
Mungoman said:
There's also the old Furphy that after smithing the sword, the Smith would then quench it in human flesh, rather than in water - anybody heard that one?
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I've heard that before, but probably in cheesy Kung-Fu movies. Although, if Tsujigiri is a real thing, it might very well be possible they would do that to "christen" a new sword.
 
Mungoman said:
There's also the old Furphy that after smithing the sword, the Smith would then quench it in human flesh, rather than in water - anybody heard that one?
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Years ago l read a novel which opened with an Arab smith (Damascus?) quenching his new blade in a prisoner’s body.

Despite an interest in quality blades and having watched every episode of Forged in Fire, that’s the only occasion l’ve ever seen it referred to.

maximus otter
 
Schrodinger's Zebra said:
Aww, what a terribly sad story. Makes me angry they couldn't find room for a little cat on their boat though.
Nice of you to leave Mrs Chippy a present. :)

EDIT: Looking at the wikipedia article I see they shot some dogs/puppies as well. I hate humans sometimes.:mad:
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They were in an extreme survival situation with no way to know how long their food rations would last or when they might find more food. I strongly disagree that having him slowly starve or freeze to death or perhaps drown if he made it into the boats to Elephant Island would have somehow been kinder treatment.
 
ramonmercado said:
Scots are taught the art of knife fighting hegelian dialectic and logical positivism from an early age in order to defend themselves against feral Haggis cultural stereotyping and mythic archetypecy
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:)

Dr_Baltar said:
The same nonsense is often said about the sgian-dubh.
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This I must call-out...I'm sorry, but having been surrounded by sgian-dubhn forever (and I am over a million* years old) I'm highly-suspicious of this claim. New one on me.Cite please.
 
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ramonmercado said:
Yer bairns cannae negate the negation.
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Ermintruder said:
I am over a million* years old
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Aye, but that's just in haggis-years.

Anyway, I await a citation or two regarding this key alleged factoid. Perhaps my overt scepticism does me no favours in this instance (well, maybe it never does).

Certainly the wiki entry on sgian dubh makes absolutely no mention of any quasi-obligatory blood-letting, to satiate the unsheathing of said weapon. My own many decades o' stravaigin aboot in the kilt (note: it is never 'a kilt', it is invariably-referred to as "the kilt") have not indicated the slightest hint of this, at all.

So if this were an episode of 'Call My Bluff', consider me to be Frank Muir, @Dr_Baltar to be Patrick Campbell, and @ramonmercado to be Robert Robertson
 
Ermintruder said:
Aye, but that's just in haggis-years.

Anyway, I await a citation or two regarding this key alleged factoid. Perhaps my overt scepticism does me no favours in this instance (well, maybe it never does).

Certainly the wiki entry on sgian dubh makes absolutely no mention of any quasi-obligatory blood-letting, to satiate the unsheathing of said weapon. My own many decades o' stravaigin aboot in the kilt (note: it is never 'a kilt', it is invariably-referred to as "the kilt") have not indicated the slightest hint of this, at all.

So if this were an episode of 'Call My Bluff', consider me to be Frank Muir, @Dr_Baltar to be Patrick Campbell, and @ramonmercado to be Robert Robertson
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Aye, we make good sporran partners.
 
Ermintruder said:
This I must call-out...I'm sorry, but having been surrounded by sgian-dubhn forever (and I am over a million* years old) I'm highly-suspicious of this claim. New one on me.Cite please.
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I'm not sure what I'm meant to cite other than personal experience. I presume it's people transferring the myth and lore surrounding other weaponry (as noted above) to what's little more than a fancy-dan fruit knife.

PS - and only ever said as a joke. I don't think I've ever come across anyone who believed it to be a necessary ritual custom after an unsheathing.
 
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This online article about the sgian dubh:

http://www.gaelicthemes.net/index.php/articles/3-the-history-of-sgian-dubh

... mentions the blood-letting bit (see the last paragraph), but characterizes it as a myth.

In any case ...

The sgian dubh was a small utility knife commonly carried for general use. It was supposedly derived from the larger double-edged 'armpit dagger' (aka sgian achlais; mattucashlass), which was purely a weapon.

I wonder if the blood-letting myth began with the sgian achlais rather than the sgian dubh ... :thought:
 
I've read about quenching the sword in a pig. The speculation was that it would add more carbon to the steel.
 
I seem to recall hearing a modern sword maker say that quenching a sword in a pig or human would not be the best way to quench a sword.
 
Which animal did he prefer instead?
 
didn't the Gurkhas have a modification of the sheath which meant they got nicked by blade when they when to sheathe the Kukri just to ensure it had tasted blood when drawn.

That does not sound practical. I practice a little Japanese swordmanship (as part of historic jiu-jitsu) and you have to use a special technique *to avoid* cutting yourself while returning the sword into its sheath. See 0:28 in the video:
 
The things one learns while reading philosophy books :)

The Diary of Samuel Pepys
Sunday 9 February 1667/68

(Lord’s day). Up, and at my chamber all the morning and the office doing business, and also reading a little of “L’escholle des filles,” which is a mighty lewd book, but yet not amiss for a sober man once to read over to inform himself in the villainy of the world.
...
and then they parted, and I to my chamber, where I did read through “L’escholle des filles,” a lewd book, but what do no wrong once to read for information sake but it did hazer my prick para stand all the while, and una vez to decharger. And after I had done it I burned it, that it might not be among my books to my shame, and so at night to supper and to bed.
 
Xanatic* said:
I've read about quenching the sword in a pig. The speculation was that it would add more carbon to the steel.
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Quenching in water makes a metal case hard, causing the metal to break, or snap, whereas quenching in an organic substance - oil, blood, a human body, will make the metal tougher - it will be less prone to snapping, rather, it will bend first, making repairs simple. This is why when you're hot shoeing a young horse, it's applied bloody hot to the hoof, which quenchs it in an organic substance (keratin), allowing the shoe to alter and fit the young'uns hoof over time, rather than the shoe altering the hoof (you don't want that with a normal young hoof).
 
Mungoman said:
Quenching in water makes a metal case hard, causing the metal to break, or snap, whereas quenching in an organic substance - oil, blood, a human body, will make the metal tougher - it will be less prone to snapping, rather, it will bend...
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Quenching in oil draws heat from the blade more slowly than performing the same act in water. This reduces the stress and risk of warping or shattering the metal.

Steels quenched in water will be harder than those quenched in oil. This is not necessarily a good thing, depending on the use to which one intends to put the quenched item.

maximus otter
 
maximus otter said:
Quenching in oil draws heat from the blade more slowly than performing the same act in water. This reduces the stress and risk of warping or shattering the metal.

Steels quenched in water will be harder than those quenched in oil. This is not necessarily a good thing, depending on the use to which one intends to put the quenched item.

maximus otter
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Jeez lets just start a sword quenching thread

All this info is available on many websites, What's been passed on as knowledge is easily googled. The subject is normally discussed by beardy types who have never been near a forge. Most of the younger ones need girlfriends/boyfriends.
 
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Naughty_Felid said:
Jeez lets just start a sword quenching thread

All this info is available on many websites, What's been passed on as knowledge is easily googled. The subject is normally discussed by beardy types who have never been near a forge. Most of the younger ones need girlfriends/boyfriends.
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You’re welcome.

maximus otter
 
How the recent past looks more forgotten than the Middle ages.
No real article, just my personal observation. Harold Wilson and Charles de Gaulle feel more forgotten than Gilles de Rais or Thomas Aquinas. And those glasses!

https://uair01.blogspot.nl/2018/04/a-strange-country.html

Edit: but now ABBA has reconvened anything might be possible :)
 
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