Freemen On The Land / Lawful Rebellion

[Mungoman]

This again!

We have this trotted out every now and then by people with a certain motive in mind...which eludes me. The story goes that sometime in the 70's, Australia was made a Corporation and was floated on the US Stock Exchange...

This allows certain individuals the right (?) to do what they want - as far as they're concerned.

Trying to determine the truth in the matter is frustrating, and trying to convince these people that it sounds ridiculous is just plain annoying.

Can anybody explain to me why the Government of the day would want to do this?

My Apologies Ross - this diatribe of mine was rhetorical and not directed at you, but at those people who desire to make 'uncomfortable' those people who don't know any better. It is the prelude usually to all sorts of conspiracy theories that are plain ridiculous. Once again - my apologies mate.

I do believe that I've turned into a cranky old bugger..

 

[Floyd]

I do believe that I've turned into a cranky old bugger..

And that's why you fit in here very well.

 

[Floyd]

I first started reading/watching about this topic around the time Yith started this thread I think it was, and I did find it interesting at first- you know, hoping there really were some old laws that could stick it to the man.

 

[Steven]

"Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system!"
"Shut up!"

 

[Cochise]

If it is a number of different documents from different ages, including unwritten things, isn`t it a bit generous to call it a constitution?

It's the difference between common law and diktat. The British Constitution evolved out of centuries of laws and settlements. The US Constitution, excellent though it is in many respects, was imposed.

But it is certainly harder to ignore the US Constitution, because it is easier to understand.

Which is why, no doubt. politicians have ensured that knowledge of the British Constitution is no longer taught in British schools. With the result that pretty much anyone under 60 doesn't know there even is such a thing.

Nowadays we might, perhaps, make more differentiation between British and English, but there is a lot of influence from the Scots in the constitution.

 

[Cochise]

This isn't really an aside, it is a relevant philosophical point.

To the old cliché 'A picture is worth a thousand words' a US patriotic colleague replied "Show me a picture of the US Constitution". Now, by that, he meant to ridicule the cliché quoter. But in reality he made a quite different point. You can have a picture of the US Constitution, you can't have one of the British Constitution.

All this is not to say that it is an excuse for an individual to refuse to pay tax, it's more to say that the governance of the UK is a legal and constitutional shambles that everyone ignores. To go metaphoric and continue the above point it is like a mighty statue that has fallen off a cliff and is disintegrating on the way down, but everyone pretends its still on the cliff. And they can do that precisely because you can't take a picture of the 'statue'.

 

[Yithian]

This isn't really an aside, it is a relevant philosophical point.

To the old cliché 'A picture is worth a thousand words' a US patriotic colleague replied "Show me a picture of the US Constitution". Now, by that, he meant to ridicule the cliché quoter. But in reality he made a quite different point. You can have a picture of the US Constitution, you can't have one of the British Constitution.

All this is not to say that it is an excuse for an individual to refuse to pay tax, it's more to say that the governance of the UK is a legal and constitutional shambles that everyone ignores. It's like a mighty statue that has fallen off a cliff and is disintegrating on the way down, but everyone pretends its still on the cliff.

Category mistake, I think.

The U.S. Constitution is not the same thing as a written description of the rules, principles, bodies and relationships that make up the U.S. Constitution in the same way that a photograph of a house is not a house and a recording of a concert is not a concert. The U.S. Constitution is the totality of those rules, principles, bodies and relationships, not the document that describes them.

The British Constitution could (with much work) be codified in a similar fashion to the U.S. Constitution, but that would not make it any more 'real': the dressing room is a less substantial component of a football club than the team spirit despite the fact that it's easier to depict and you can touch the walls.

 

[Stormkhan]

I think a majority of 'freemen' aren't bothered with the philosophy or legality (or not), but they proudly declare for it if the baliffs turn up for unpaid debts, they're taken to court for unpaid energy bills, or even pulled over for speeding or drunk driving.

 

[Cochise]

Category mistake, I think.

The U.S. Constitution is not the same thing as a written description of the rules, principles, bodies and relationships that make up the U.S. Constitution in the same way that a photograph of a house is not a house and a recording of a concert is not a concert. The U.S. Constitution is the totality of those rules, principles, bodies and relationships, not the document that describes them.

The British Constitution could (with much work) be codified in a similar fashion to the U.S. Constitution, but that would not make it any more 'real': the dressing room is a less substantial component of a football club than the team spirit despite the fact that it's easier to despict and you can touch the walls.

It's just something I was taught as if it existed. And we are not talking fantasy, the physical documents and the history does exist. but if people don't want to believe it, apparently, then it doesn't exist. Maybe in the current zeitgeist, what people want to believe has again become more powerful than physical evidence.

So, maybe the BritCon was just a different kind of religion? But then, some religions are made up of many many source materials , some are from just one doc. So maybe the US Constitution is also the foundation document for a religious belief too? After all, it's not totally grounded in reality, given it's relation with slavery.

Sorry, I'm just freewheeling here, but but shouldn't we do that sometimes?

 

[kesavaross]

My Apologies Ross - this diatribe of mine was rhetorical and not directed at you, but at those people who desire to make 'uncomfortable' those people who don't know any better. It is the prelude usually to all sorts of conspiracy theories that are plain ridiculous. Once again - my apologies mate.

I do believe that I've turned into a cranky old bugger.

Thanks for the apology. It's honestly not needed though. I didn't think it was aimed at me - I just wanted to make my position clear.

So you're a cranky old bugger then? That makes two of us.

 

[Stormkhan]

We three men!
(gender assumed!)

 

[Dinobot]

Thanks for the apology. It's honestly not needed though. I didn't think it was aimed at me - I just wanted to make my position clear.

So you're a cranky old bugger then? That makes two of us.

We three men!
(gender assumed!)

Me, too!

I think most of this forum are Cranky Old Farts!

 

[Frideswide]

We three men!
(gender assumed!)

Am applying for the Cranky Old Bugger Batallion. I can wear a fake beard and smoke a pipe if that helps?

 

[maximus otter]

I think a majority of 'freemen' aren't bothered with the philosophy or legality (or not), but they proudly declare for it if the baliffs turn up for unpaid debts, they're taken to court for unpaid energy bills, or even pulled over for speeding or drunk driving.

lt’s a UL, much like the one about “If X number of people identify themselves as “Jedi” on the census form, they have to declare it to be a formal religion.”

I’m all for a bit of resistance to government overreach, but this is just subliterates forming into a flock behind someone who once glanced at a Wikipedia article on the Magna Carta.

maximus otter

 

[Stormkhan]

As a brief side-note, I've always argued that The Force/Jedi concept is not a religion but a philosophical stand-point.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Am applying for the Cranky Old Bugger Batallion. I can wear a fake beard and smoke a pipe if that helps?

Is this you?

 

[Frideswide]

Is this you?

I thought we agreed no pictures!!!!!!!!!