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Freemen On The Land / Lawful Rebellion

ramonmercado said:
Sounds like a Freemen action.


A group of about 20 protesters entered Edinburgh Castle on Tuesday evening, claiming to have “seized” the landmark under article 61 of Magna Carta.

Members of the public were evacuated as the demonstrators entered the grounds of the castle without a ticket. Police Scotland said that officers were dealing with the protest. Reports emerged at about 5.45pm of an incident close to the entrance to the Museum of The Royal Regiment for Scotland.

The protesters filmed their protest on Facebook Live. In a 13-minute video, a woman says the castle “belongs to the people” and that they are “taking our power back”. She adds the Scottish people have been “lied to all our lives” and that the “building belongs to us, we have taken the castle back” in an effort to “restore the rule of law”.

A man adds: “Treason’s been going on for that long now, we can’t sit back and let everybody perish under the stupid legislation and fraudulent government tyranny, so let’s just take it all back, not just the castle.”

As police officers appear in the footage, the female protester told officers they were seizing the castle under article 61 of Magna Carta. Magna Carta – signed by King John in 1215 – has never applied in Scotland as it predates the Act of Union.

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news...IkEsfJo141sbcQIUsXUcszaS1jOvpFvbB-0lTlN5A58Is
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Sounds more like an anarcho-syndicalist commune to me. Have the watery tarts distributing swords expressed an opinion of this yet?
 
Man caught for not wearing a mask, given 6 weeks' jail

British national Benjamin Glynn, who claimed to be a "sovereign, living man" against whom the law had "no effect", was found guilty of four charges of failing to wear a mask, public nuisance and using threatening words towards a public servant.

After the judge left the court to deliberate on his verdict, Glynn exclaimed "The captain has abandoned the ship".

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/sin...sk-train-court-convicted-jail-6-weeks-2120601
 
Herr Cloaca said:
Man caught for not wearing a mask, given 6 weeks' jail

British national Benjamin Glynn, who claimed to be a "sovereign, living man" against whom the law had "no effect", was found guilty of four charges of failing to wear a mask, public nuisance and using threatening words towards a public servant.

After the judge left the court to deliberate on his verdict, Glynn exclaimed "The captain has abandoned the ship".

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/sin...sk-train-court-convicted-jail-6-weeks-2120601
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That 'Freeman on the land' nonsense just won't wash in Singapore.
 
My daughter used to date the son of one of these FOTL types. Not only bonkers, but nasty with it. He used to beat the crap out of his son.
Anyway, his latest act of rebellion has been to ban Royal Mail from entering his property to deliver the post....bills, in other words. So he is a regular target for the courts and the debt collectors. The stupid bastard.
 
I recently researched for a piece about historical anti-vaxxers and found this movement of smallpox vaccine deniers in the 1860s. Every argument was identical to modern ant-vaxxers' but also, the whole thing was always prefaced with a lot of grandstanding about the whole concept of "an Englishman's liberty" blah blah. It was uncanny, even down to the concept "vaccination was developed too quickly to work" - in their case, they were moaning about Jenner, from 60 years before... Also, they bought into snake oils and what we'd now recognise as dietary supplements. It's older than we think, but especially that underlying idea of "my freedom!"
 
There was a disappointing development in the spread of antivax nonsense here recently...

Family criticises use of woman's image in anti-vaccination push

"The family of a young woman who died earlier this year have accused people of "degrading her memory" by using her death to promote an anti-vaccine campaign.

Nicole Cahill, from Enniscorthy in Co Wexford, suffered with health problems for many years and died in March at the age of 22.

Her family has stated that Nicole did not die as a result of receiving a Covid-19 vaccine, but said "anti-vax" campaigners have been using her image to further their cause."

Via rte.ie/news
 
Entertaining report about a FOTL buffoon trying it on in Ireland.

It goes the way they always do.
stu neville said:
What they each have in common is a serious aversion to having their world-view challenged in any way at all. Though they will scoff, they're just as extreme in mentality as any other extremist - like all such people, any doubt expressed toward their viewpoint is because the doubter has obviously been brainwashed by The Man.
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..having much in common with many groups with Fortean obsessions. More on this presently.
lawofnations said:
They rack up debts, use public services, enter into contracts, then renege on repayments by claiming that they cannot be held legally accountable.
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My favourite example of this being...
Magistrate: So you state you aren't liable for the mortgage arrears as they are in the name of John Smith, and your name is not John Smith?
FOTL Defendant: Correct.
Magistrate: Was your name John Smith when you took out the mortgage?
FOTL Defendant: No.
Magistrate: So you took out the mortgage on false pretences, and presented a false article in order to gain financially by means of deception, contrary to the Theft Act?
FOTL Defendant: Ermmmm....

It all went rather sideways for them after that.
TheLeeds said:
one website I looked at seemed quite rational until about two thirds of the way down the page, then it all seemed to go out of the window, and it started going on about the magna carta still being legally binding,
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I encountered a group obsessed with the Magna Carta very recently whilst researching something else entirely, ie British Bigfeet (should be in FT423, not 422 as advertised in this month's mag).

Bizarre all round.
 
Regarding non payment of tv licence; there are/were a few videos on youtube where the tv inspector fetched the police and the police gave up in the end and walked off (the reason being that it is not illegal to own a tv and as long as no crime has been committed on the property they cannot come in). It seemed to work for them anyway.
 
The Plod tend to avoid getting involved in civil debt cases if they can help it, so it might well work in some cases. They don't tend to bang on about all the times it doesn't work, though.
 
stu neville said:
The Plod tend to avoid getting involved in civil debt cases if they can help it, so it might well work in some cases. They don't tend to bang on about all the times it doesn't work, though.
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Jul 2021: BBC licence fee in chaos: 700,000 rebels refuse to pay as critics say end is coming​

https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...ee-how-many-people-pay-drop-bbc-annual-report

Feb 2020: 200,000 homes ditch their BBC TV licences in a year prompting funding crisis​

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...V-licences-year-prompting-funding-crisis.html

maximus otter
 
It's been a downward trend for years, and the TV Licensing Authority is being cut back year on year (I know someone who worked there until a few years ago). Their ability to pursue debt etc is being hobbled more and more. We won't go into why this might be.
 
I always wondered how they enforce it in some of these really rough estates like in Moss Side for eg. I can't imagine the tv inspector having much luck in those places.
 
Floyd1 said:
Regarding non payment of tv licence; there are/were a few videos on youtube where the tv inspector fetched the police and the police gave up in the end and walked off (the reason being that it is not illegal to own a tv and as long as no crime has been committed on the property they cannot come in). It seemed to work for them anyway.
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Possibly because it's an 'alleged crime' and without evidence etc. etc.
 
A long time ago, when TV enquiries were still handled by the Post Office, I went calling on addresses where no licence was recorded. The only time I recall police being on hand in case of trouble was during the occasional visit to a rough area where the brats would run up and down the road shouting 'TV man' while their dads were nipping out the back door with the TV set.
 
Someone in Bristol seems to have bought the 'Sovereign Citizen' snake oil!

They are declaring that anyone who knocks on their front door is trespassing and may be liable to a fine of £25,000 or 1500 Troy Ounces of silver. Given that they seem to be taking their law from NSW, Australia I wish them all good luck!

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/resident-installs-fence-block-cold-8969668

0_KW_BRS_121223Bedminsterpostbox_02jpeg.jpg


(Photo: The Bristol Post)
 
There's a fair old enclave of them out here in the West. I spotted one in Bath a couple of months ago, outside Sainsbury's with a member of staff and two coppers.
Bloke: You have no authority over me! I am a Freeman of the land (etc)
Copper (slightly resigned): Just get in the car, Brian.
 
AnonyJ said:
Someone in Bristol seems to have bought the 'Sovereign Citizen' snake oil!

They are declaring that anyone who knocks on their front door is trespassing and may be liable to a fine of £25,000 or 1500 Troy Ounces of silver. Given that they seem to be taking their law from NSW, Australia I wish them all good luck!

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/resident-installs-fence-block-cold-8969668
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I bet their postie is still allowed to deliver Nexus though.
 
I recently fell down a rabbit hole, while researching something else entirely, after stumbling across an issue relating to something called the 'certificate of live birth'. I suspect that this may be - at least in many instances - related to the subject of this thread, but have not been able to quite pin it down; I suspect that some bright sparks have decided that the 'certificate of live birth' somehow undermines the standard birth certificate, and that this is useful to them (in their opinion).

The former appears to be a technical notification used, sometimes, by the health services but not standardised and not part of any official registration, whereas the latter is an official legal record of birth. The difference is possibly best illustrated by this official response to a FOI request, subsequently posted up on WhatDoTheyKnow.

The General Register Office for England and Wales - and the local
registration service – only deal with the registration of births and the
keeping of those registrations (and issuing certified copies of those
records)...

When you refer to a “certificate of live birth or live birth record” you
may be referring to a notification made to the local health authorities
shortly after the birth by, for example, a doctor or midwife who attended
the birth. The practice has varied over the years as to exactly in what
form such notifications were made, and we do not know whether health
authorities retain these. If you wish to pursue this we can only suggest
that you contact the health authority for the area in which you were born
to see whether they may still have any such record...
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Source.

I did wonder if the issue might be related to adoption, and the tracing of birth parents - but some of the faux-legal language involved in these requests (and there are many of them, if you go looking) suggests to me that a significant proportion are Freeman related bollocks.

Edit: For those who maybe have little time for employees of the government, I suspect that a little meander through the following correspondence may increase your sympathy somewhat. You have to at least admire the patience, and stamina, of those involved, surely:

See here.
 
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There's an interesting explanation of the whole "refusing Implied Right of Access" on Blackbelt Barrister YT channel. While this is a thing, what it actually means is not what some people think it is.
 
stu neville said:
There's a fair old enclave of them out here in the West. I spotted one in Bath a couple of months ago, outside Sainsbury's with a member of staff and two coppers.
Bloke: You have no authority over me! I am a Freeman of the land (etc)
Copper (slightly resigned): Just get in the car, Brian.
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Yup, you'd get nowhere trying that sort of line on the police. I've seen it done. Hilarious. :chuckle:
 
Youtube has a disturbing bounty of videos from police body cams, courtroom video, and even the loons themselves, showing the magical incantations having exactly zero effect on "the system". You see them being cuffed, tazed, sent to jail for contempt, refusing generous plea deals from prosecutors in favor of losing privileges, property, dignity, what have you. The disconnect between their fantasy about how things work and what actually happens to them is amazing. It's like some very important circuits in their brains are damaged, switched off, or just never were present to begin with. There are actually videos of judges laughing at their crackpot legal arguments. Many judges, lawyers, and law officers seem to have endless patience with the dumbshits. I have no idea how they put up with the nonsense.
 
It's the result of content creators appealing to the self-interest of the viewers.
People hate being arrested - they say why "actually they can't do that" etc. - and so believe what they're told.
It's the 'enlightenment' of t'internet - "We've been doing all wrong, all this time", "THEY've been keeping this from us" etc.
 
There is , at least in the UK, a semi serious point behind this. I was taught British Constitution at school. A subject which AFAIK is no longer taught. And part of that was that the law of the UK was made up of edicts going back as far as the Magna Carta, if not further. Recent governments going back nearly 50 years now have ignored those ancient rights and precedents.

But do those rights still exist? I doubt you'd find any modern judge or solicitor who would give them countenance, but have those precedents actually been abolished? And without them, are the current actions of Government even legal?
 
They don't need to abolish, just supersede with more recent legislation.
My favourite was the 'law' that insisted that every British male between child (not sure of it's definition) and elder (ditto) had to practice archery and/or swordplay to make themselves a 'yeoman'. It was never repealed. It didn't have to be. Laws concerning the carrying of weapons in public did for it.
And as far as I know, we don't have a written constitution. The Magna Carta wasn't one - it was an agreement between the barons and the crown. In effect, it was the lords threatening to overthrow the King unless he codified their rights.
 
The British Constit
Stormkhan said:
They don't need to abolish, just supersede with more recent legislation.
My favourite was the 'law' that insisted that every British male between child (not sure of it's definition) and elder (ditto) had to practice archery and/or swordplay to make themselves a 'yeoman'. It was never repealed. It didn't have to be. Laws concerning the carrying of weapons in public did for it.
And as far as I know, we don't have a written constitution. The Magna Carta wasn't one - it was an agreement between the barons and the crown. In effect, it was the lords threatening to overthrow the King unless he codified their rights.
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The British Constitution IS written. Part of what I was taught. It's just not written in a single document. Which makes it very hard to repeal or supersede

There'd be no monarchy or parliament if either relied on a single document.

I did my archery practice from 16 until 42. Yes, proud to be a yeoman.

People get besotted by the US - we aren't the US.
 
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