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Giants: Nephilim, Rephaim, Biblical Allusions

I stopped reading when I realized he had rense.com listed as a "Link of Study". :rolleyes:

Rense=*DEAD*
 
I'm not saying take this at face value. What I see is a lot of scripture quoted and a lot of so-called facts/history layed out and was wondering if someone could verify/clarify them.

Judgement=*CLOSE-MINDED*
 
Wookiee said:
I'm not saying take this at face value. What I see is a lot of scripture quoted and a lot of so-called facts/history layed out and was wondering if someone could verify/clarify them.

Judgement=*CLOSE-MINDED*

I'm not trying to flame you or anything, but let me give you a quick lesson on the Internet.

If you

A) Make bold statements.

and then

B) Provide next to nothing to back them up, short of a few Bible quotes

then you are

C) Doing nothing more than providing entertaining reading, or in this guy's case, non-entertaining reading.
 
Fair enough. I appreciate your response. I agree with you in regards to this site.

What I'm asking for is some relevant info. on this topic. This site merely gave me enough insight to ask for more info. regarding this topic.

Any good books about this?

Do you know of any recent giants that are not formed by disease and are very healthy/agile/strong?

Do you know of any historical events involving so-called giants (-David vs. Goliath).

Are there any other giant legends or theories about historical giants?

Any skeletons? What about the double rows of teeth stated in the Nephilim site? Any fossil record of this?

I grew up in Christian education so I am very familiar with giants in the Old Testament. Is there any other ancient text that goes into details about giants?
 
Fair enough, I never ment my first post to be directed towards you but towards that site. As for Rense, he does a fine job on his own without me having to add any more to the pile. :D

As for the possibility that the Nephilim or giant races might be real...

Many of the reports listed are from an era when newspapers were notorious for "creative" journalism to increase subscriptions. Kind of reminds you of the internet eh? ;)

However, I'm not discounting them in whole. Some of these finds are real, and quite anomalistic in nature. Unfortunately, many seem to go the way of the "secret burial" or "lost at (insert brand name University here)". I would recommend starting with Google and search for some of the specific cases listed. I would love to get much more indepth here, but I'm about to leave for work. I'll try to make a more informed post later when I get home. Good luck on your search. :)
 
Isn't ogpogo's new sig pic of an angel or nephilim or summat like that?
 
These people sound like complete nutters - they believe that these Nephilim are alive today??? Sounds like some crazy religious cult or conspiracy theory. I dont think biblical texts can be taken that literally, the measurements were not necesarily all that accurate. And the "two sets of teeth" thing is just ridiculous.

They even have a whole message board dedicated to this - I might ask them some questions, such as do they think Nephilim are around today, and do they think Sasquatch/Yeti etc are related to Nephilim.

At cryptozoology.com the mere mention of angels/demons/werewolves/vampires/ghosts/ufos/aliens etc is enough to get people thrown off the board. While I do think stuff like that has a place on a Fortean message board, and I find it interesting, I dont really think it counts as Cryptozoology.

There is a theory however that such legends of "giants" might date back to (presumably pre-ice age) human coexistance with Gigantopithecus. Similarly legends of dwarves, goblins etc could date back to human coexistence with smaller hominid species such as Australopithecus.

The maximum recorded height for a human is nearly 9 ft I think but I believe he died at something like 22.
 
hillarious.

Page obviously isn't worth discussion, besides ridicule. Its just a amazingly crazy theory.

From the site:
The Nephilim have been displayed as having large legs which are vulnerable to attack. These creatures would have to have massive
elephant like legs to support their weight under the earths gravity. Obviously more than twice what would usually be expected as far as
proportioning. Two rows of teeth in both the upper and lower jaw are possibly there to aid in what must be a huge consumption of food for these beasts, also possibly for a gruesome form of weaponry.

I mean, holy shit. I should make up something like this and see if I can get people to believe it.
 
The theory concering the Nephilim appears in Storm Constantines Trilogy "Stalking tender prey" "Scenting Hallowed Blood" etc , In the acknowledgements she mentions some of the sources she got her ideas from on the theory , I think Andrew Collins wrote something about it (but dont quote me on this !). This is all from my rather dubious memory but maybe u can find a reference of interest from one of those books if not they are both a good read :)
 
More nutters who believe in Nephilim

This site mentions the Nefilim (sic) and seems to think they are the same as the Annunaki - the good old "humans are hybrids between godlike aliens and apes" theory.

http://paranormal.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://www.viewzone.com/devil.html

Im not too sure exactly what the relationship between Nefilim/ Nephilim and humans is meant to be in this site - maybe humans are the hybrids, or maybe there are meant to be further human/Annunaki hybrids and these are the Nephilim.

Not cryptozoological by any stretch of the imagination, anyway.
 
Re: hillarious.

Piscez said:
From the site:
The Nephilim have been displayed as having large legs which are vulnerable to attack. These creatures would have to have massive elephant like legs to support their weight under the earths gravity. Obviously more than twice what would usually be expected as far as proportioning. Two rows of teeth in both the upper and lower jaw are possibly there to aid in what must be a huge consumption of food for these beasts, also possibly for a gruesome form of weaponry.

I mean, holy shit. I should make up something like this and see if I can get people to believe it.

The physical characteristics section is a hoot! My faves:

The bit about Goliath's armour "..His coat of mail (probably the lightest part of his armor) weighed in at 16 pounds; with his greaves, helmet and target, his armor was easily over 40 pounds and even possibly close to 100 pounds."
Over 40 pounds, fair enough, but where do they get the 100 pounds bit from? They just made it up, that's where from, but it's 100 pounds that would stick in the gullible minds of people who believe this stuff.

More:

"Our research team also considers the Nephilim as the builders of the ancient pyramids whose construction has remained a mystery to this day. All these points taken into account, the Physical makeup of the Nephilim begins to take shape."
Erm, which research team would that be? And based this assumption on what research? Theirs, and none, respectively, but in fundie eyes Egypt was a big evil (otherwise the Exodus wouldn't have happened) therefore impliacting the nephilimin the building of their most famous monument provides further proof of their derilictions. And, simultaneously, demonstrates just how huge and powerful the nephilim were. Again the true believers will be goggling in awe at the terror of this threat to mankind.

They continue:

"Strength, agility, with a propensity for wicked and monstrous acts, the Nephilim will be a great force of evil. The weaknesses of these seem to be few and far in between. Organic in nature, you can expect similarities in biology, i.e.: if it bleeds it can be killed."
Eh?

Finally:

"Also notable here, although not physical in nature, is the fact that the Nephilim have been shown to practice religion. It does not suffice it to say that these creatures are simply an evil mindless offspring of angels and women. They practice treachery of the soul not from a mindless body, but of one who thinks, plans, and acts. The Nephilim are apparently homosexual in nature and have been said in historical documents to practice other abominations such as cannibalism and human sacrifice as well as the drinking of blood."
...and when they were little blew up frogs with a bicycle pump, no doubt. Notice how it's a "fact" that these unsubstantiated creatures practise religion, and that the historical documents to which they refer aren't actually named: perhaps they're thinking of "Jack and the Beanstalk". And, of course, the nephilim are "apparently" gay, just to put the tin hat on it.


But at least it's relatively innoculous at that point: the worrying bit comes later, when they get on to resistance bit:
Also from the site:

The Command and Staff is the leadership arm of the resistance movement. It contains representatives of each sub-unit as described earlier. The Command and Staff of the overall resistance movement is both political and military in nature. The Command and Staffs primary function is to provide clear attainable goals to the resistance movement. These goals may be political or military in nature. The Command and Staff must also insure unity of action among the resistance elements....The commander of the overall resistance movement may be a singular entity or may comprise a group or committee of individuals . More than likely the overall commander is a singular individual either of military or political nature. This commander must at all costs state clearly the political goal of the resistance movement and how he plans on reaching this goal. In effect the resistance movement must establish a mission statement that all members of the resistance understand clearly. A resistance movement with no clear attainable goals is no better than a band of thugs and brigands and will accomplish little in the way of success. (My italics)

So, having identified an enemy (who are ten feet tall, gay, have elephantine legs, two rows of teeth, and six fingers on each hand and eat people - hey, who hasn't worried about those chaps?) they set out how they plan to fight them. Never mind that a full scale offensive by mythical beasts would, in all probability, be countered by conventional, legitimate military action, oh no, it will take a load of gun-toting, gospel quoting fundies to combat the nephilim, led by one person (think Koresh). What if the nephilim come disguised as the FBI? And, as usual in armed fundie circles, any behaviour on their part is fully justified in saving the world from this threat, whether or not anyone has actually seen one, or even remarked on one, for a thousand or more years.

The good lord be praised.:rolleyes:

Stu (quite big, so going to avoid Arkansas for a while)
 
Come on, Stu--that shit's just not fair to Christians. What would you guess the percentage of fundamentalists (never mind average, mainstream Christians) even think in these terms? I'd honestly guess maybe a tenth of a percent. Furthermore, if the ones that did think in those terms would focus on something more constructive, I'd imagine the entire faith would be viewed in a better light, I'm sure you'll agree.
 
TorgosPizza said:
Come on, Stu--that shit's just not fair to Christians. What would you guess the percentage of fundamentalists (never mind average, mainstream Christians) even think in these terms? I'd honestly guess maybe a tenth of a percent. Furthermore, if the ones that did think in those terms would focus on something more constructive, I'd imagine the entire faith would be viewed in a better light, I'm sure you'll agree.

Totally agree, Torgos - I tried to take care to indicate these were extremist fundamentalists from the absolute fringe. If I have inadvertantly offended any other Christians, fundamentalist or otherwise, I apologise unreservedly.

I was only having a go at those who are heavily armed, answer to one person who declares themselves in charge on Earth, and are actively seeking wicked, cannibalistic giants to annihilate in the name of God, and in particular the logic they use to justify these aims; their attitude belies any truly Christian motives. To them, no apologies at all.
 
No sweat, Stu. In fact, I almost went back and deleted my post, because I knew you weren't thinking that way. In the end, I guess I left it up for those that do see Christians in general in those terms.

You know, let's play along and suppose there are cannibalistic, homosexual giants out there. Why the need to go hunting for them, anyway? I'd think either they would ¹avoid us for fear of trouble or ²bring the fight to us, Christian or otherwise...I doubt they'd be so picky to overlook an agnostic when hunger pangs set in. Furthermore, if these things are a threat, why haven't these "researchers" notified the authorities? Or are they "in on it?" ;)
 
One last thing--a quote from the website:
We are also soliciting articles of this subject along with any research discoveries (including visions from the Lord).

Since when are visions considered research? This is too much! And what exactly constitutes a vision, as opposed to, say, a schizophrenic hallucenation? I think this thread should go straight to the "religion/cult" forum, because it doesn't seem very zoological at all.
 
Re: some more info

Goldstein said:

Another extreme fundie website - like the way you have to e-mail them to explain why you want to join their cause before they'll show you the putative good stuff (and are willing to pay money for evidence too - a bit suss...).

Question for me is, is this group linked to the other one, or are there really two (or more!) seperate groups of religious loonies who independently developed these beliefs?:eek:

Actually, just noticed that their gif of a bloke in skins striding along is oddly similar to the one on the other site. Affiliation, then? Or just gif piracy?
 
I dont think X Project is a fundamentalist site, just one for discussion of paranormal/cryptozoological topics. I have been to their message board a few times and it is much like an American version of this one. There are a few creationists who post on there a lot but I dont think the site itself is run by creationists or Christian fundamentalists - some of the other stuff on the site is about occult/magick/vampire/demon type stuff that fundamentalists would have a serious problem with.
 
X Project

OK, Goldstein, point taken - committed the calumny of not looking at the rest of the site to get some context.

Apologies for non-fortean behaviour!

It's interesting, though, that there are people there of a similar mindset to those of the original site, or are they the same people spreading "The Word"?
 
Depends on the topic of the thread. Obviously a thread on Nephilim Giants is likely to attract more han its fair share of the Fundies. All the sites linked to in that thread, on the other hand, are hollow-earth nutjobs and the like.
 
Giants in the Earth

Just found this site here:

http://www.biblefacts.org/myth/giant.html
Link is dead. The MIA webpage (such as it is) can be accessed via the Wayback Machine:

https://web.archive.org/web/20090403162543/http://biblefacts.org/myth/giant.html

That is trying to prove (in the interest of Biblical records) that there were giants who co-existed with humans at some point.

Are any of the pictures on the above site compleeing archaeological proof of a race of giants? Is there any compelling proof anywhere?
 
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It's evolution Baby!

Wow, it's been awhile since I've seen this post, but I digress.

Here's what I've learned about the Nephilim:
There seems to be two theories on them.
1 - Sometime after man sinned (see Bible), there was intermingling between 'species' - angel & man. Angels bred w/ human females creating the Nephilim - a race of superhumans.
This pissed God off (Angels didn't need to reproduce since they were eternal and them doing so angered God), so he condemed the offending angels, not to Hell, but somewhere else...
So, this leaves the earth filled with Nephilim (giants, demi-gods, 'heros's'), which is supposedly one reason why God used the Great Flood - to wipe out this race.
It turns out this didn't work so good since the Nephlim are mentioned after the flood some more (aka Goliath). Also, the Bible calls them great hero's of the people in one part and want's them dead in another...hmm...
The second theory is less fun and has to do with a certain Tribes (Seth) bloodline.
Links:
Notes
The Nephilim
Christian Church of God
The Rain - GOOD SITE
Bible Quotes
 
About the Nephilim, it probably is, but alongisde non-canonical stuff like the Book of Enoch.
About the second law of thermodynamics or the wind velocity of a fully laden African swallow... ?
Most of the crap written about the bible is in this form; bland, sweeping statements about its omniscience or total unreliability :hmph:
 
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The book of Enoch is scarily beleiveable in parts:

On the nephilim -

From the book of Enoch the Angels of the order of the watchers some 100 strong came to earth and mated with human females who gave birth to the Giants (then those begat the Nephilim and then the Eloja so it was said..from that I am reading getting more and more human as they got 1/2 angel, 1/4 angel ...etc). Not only did they mate, the angels taught mankind advanced technology, creating armor and swords, make up, sorcery and magic etc and all of this was against gods plan. The giants, sometimes called hero's as well, warred amongst one another and their children, devouring normal humans food and basically dominating normal humans. I get the feeling from the use of the word hero that they were not innately evil but were just as good or bad as any other person, just they were better, stronger, faster, larger and more powerful and tended to have their way whenever they wanted it. Power corrupts after all. But some were said to be men of great renown.

God decided to send the flood to wipe it all out and start again, humans were not ready for this knowledge and had become corrupted. Noah he saved since he had not been corrupted. They bound the watchers and made them watch as all of their children were destroyed by the flood, wiping the slate clean for mankind so to speak then they were bound in darkness, cast into Duadiel. Now the Giants etc did not die *per se* their bodies perised but they became incorporal spirits called "demons" in the book of enoch who would plague mankind until judgment day when they too would recieve judgement.
 
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Just saw a documentary on the archaeological search for the Goliath-like giants of the Philistine invaders. Recent archaeological research into sites in Israel reveal various ancient scriptural mentions of a certain tall race referred to as rephaim.

"Rephaim ('shades, ghosts') - the aboriginal giants who inhabited Canaan, Edom, Moab, and Ammon. (Unger, "The New Unger's Bible Dictionary", page 471.)

Goliath was a probable 2m tall according to the Dead Sea scrolls, and this was also confirmed by a first century AD Jewish scholar called Josephus. Though he is said (in the Old Testament) to have been 3.2m tall, his actual height was exagerated in relation to the average height of ancient h. sapiens - about 1.6m. During their reserach, the various French, Israeli and British teams excavated in Syria, Jordan and the Golan Heights area of Israel and uncovered remains of some remarkably tall (for the period) humans, though none were any taller than about 2m. One individual desctribed in scipture and carved on stele was Og - a king / hero / warrior leader of the Bashan - a tribe of people of great stature. He was believed to have been buried in a huge tomb, situated within 5 massive concentric stone rings in the Golan Heights area. I'd never heard of this ring/tomb site before, and it was remarkable in itself. The site is called "Gilgal Refaim" in Hebrew or "Rujm al-Hiri" in Arabic.
gilgal.gif


THIS page (a christian one, but an interesting read, nonetheless) gives a little more info about the site.
A slightly more objective pagehere.

Incidentally, during the doco, they showed old black and white footage of Robert Wadlow walking toward an aeroplane on a tarmac, and that was truly amazing to see him towering almost double the height of the next tallest person in his party.
 
Great site, Skinny!

I liked THIS BIT from the above site:
Consider the following biblical clues, written in modern terminology (The Book, Tyndale House Publishers):

In Genesis 14:5, we are told the Refaim inhabit the place called Ashtherot-Karnaim. Just ten miles from the rings is the site of an ancient Canaanite city called Ashtherot. It is named after the Canaanite goddess of war and, contradictorily, love. Ashterot was the Canaanite name for Sirius, from which the Hebrew name Esther was derived.

In Joshua 12:4, we learn that "King Og of Bashan, the last of the Refaim, who lived at Ashtarot... ruled a territory stretching From Mount Hermon in the north...

In 1 Chronicles 6:71, we are told that the half-tribe of Manasseh later inhabited "Golan," in Bashan.

The most explicit description of the size of the people of Bashan is found in Deuteronomy 3. King Og is attacked and defeated. "King Og of Bashan was the last of the great Refaim. His iron bedstead is kept at Rabbah... and measures thirteen and a half feet long and six feet wide." In the same chapter we are informed that "The Sidonians called Mount Hermon, 'Sirion.'"

In Deuteronomy, we are told that the Refaim "were a large and powerful tribe, as tall as the Anakim (giants)."

In Chronicles 20, the last of the Anakim is killed. "A giant with six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot, whose father was also a giant,... was killed by David's nephew Jonathan. These giants were descendants of the giants of Gath and were killed by David and his soldiers."

The respected Jerusalem biblical author, Rabbi Yisrael Herczeg, hardly an advocate of ancient alien theories, nonethless confirms the possibility that giant heavenly beings or their descendants could have constructed the circles.

"The Jewish oral tradition says Og, the King of Bashan, stowed away on Noah's ark and was the only survivor of the flood outside Noah's family. Og was descended from the Nefilim, deities who fell from the heavens."

Aliens?

"No, more like fallen angels. Og had children with Noah's daughters and they were hybrid giants called the Anakim or Refaim. They existed in ancient times and the Bible records their presence in the Golan Heights. They could have built Gilgal Refaim."
 
An interesting website that is part fictional and part... something else:
Everywhere on the world you can find traces and tellings from a long lost time period. The official scientific opinion however is having its problems with these tellings and simply ignores many details. Many religious texts like the hebrew Thora, ancient chinese texts, the old indian Veda or the native american tellings are sharing some common features that are clearly describing a civilization much higher developed then officially possible in that times. The name of this Website for example: Simurgh. It is a famous mythical being which had some strong influence on the humans in mythical times - what does this bird telling us? In chinese sources feathered charriots are flying through the heaven, some of these drawn by dragons. The apocryphical books of Enoch which were discovered in the 18th century are giving a clearer picture of a culture of high developed beings, called the Watchers. Its members had some intercourse with humans and the offsprings of it were called Nephilim in this books. Two famous symbols are connected with this ancient culture: the Vulture and the Dragon - both of which will be covered in certain details here, too.

Fallen Angels having sexual relationship to the daughters of Adam are well known among the more darker oriented companions of our time. Shemyaza and his angels inspired even (dark) romantic authors like Bram Stoker, who authored Dracula. The Wings of Mighty Simurgh are covering the story of this angels, their heritage and their backgrounds,
 
Ogias the Giant, or the Book of Giants
Ogias the Giant, also known as the Book of Giants is one of the books from the New Testament apocrypha which concerned the Old Testament. The text relates how before the great flood, there was a giant named Ogias who fought a great dragon.

It is thought to have been based on the Book of Enoch, itself based on an obscure passage from Genesis concerning Nephilim. The book concerns itself with filling in the details about the giants that the book of Enoch misses out. The book itself was well travelled, and exists in Syriac, Greek, Persian, Sogdian, Uyghur, and Arabic, although each version is somewhat distorted incorporating more local myths.

The contents are generally thought to be a fantasy based on Jewish mysticism.
 
skinny46 said:
THIS page (a christian one, but an interesting read, nonetheless) gives a little more info about the site.

Measured against the accepted standards of Historic Christianity, the "Christianity" of this site seems a trifle iffy, since it denies not only the Trinity but the divinity of Christ.
 
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