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Great Dystopias

Zeke Newbold

Zeke Newbold

Carbon based biped.
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
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Tell us about your favourite dystopian novels and films here.

Me?I'm getting through my third reading of `Living Souls` by Dmitry Bykov (Alma Books 2010. Translated by Cathy Porter) and, honestly, it gets better each time. 2nd living souls.jpg

We are in Russia at some unspecified time in the future, but a matter of decades hence. The West has discovered Phlogiston as a new source of power and so Russia's oil is no longer needed. The nation has descended into an endless civil war - with the Varangians, self-styled Northern Nordics worshiping a kind of Hitlerian ideology versus the Khazars who are the descendants of Metropolidtan Liberals, in effect. We also learn of another, more secret, ethnic group who have a cycle-based Taositic faith.Each claim to be the real Russians, and Russian life is militarised and run by theological cliques. There is a tax on the use of pollysyllabic words, homeless men have been turned into pets that middle class families can apply to own, and Islamic terrorists run theme parks where you can pay to be kidnapped...and so on.

It is 439 pages long - a sprawling wooly mammoth of a novel.( So, as Alan Partridge put it `Don't drop it on your foot!` In fact, the translator had to come some of it out!) There is something in it to offend everyone, Russians in particular, and it caused a bit of a stir when it was published in Russia in 2006.

Western critics have compared it to `Catch 22` and indeed, some of the black military humour is similar, but there is more going on than that. The devil is in all the little details and you pick more up each time you read it.

If you are interested in Russian culture or enjoy dark satirical comedy then this is for you - but it's not an easy read. As I say, this is my third attempt, and I'm mining a lot more out of it this time around.
 
Zeke Newbold said:
Tell us about your favourite dystopian novels and films here.

Me?I'm getting through my third reading of `Living Souls` by Dmitry Bykov (Alma Books 2010. Translated by Cathy Porter) and, honestly, it gets better each time.View attachment 8640

We are in Russia at some unspecified time in the future, but a matter of decades hence. The West has discovered Phlogiston as a new source of power and so Russia's oil is no longer needed. The nation has descended into an endless civil war - with the Varangians, self-styled Northern Nordics worshiping a kind of Hitlerian ideology versus the Khazars who are the descendants of Metropolidtan Liberals, in effect. We also learn of another, more secret, ethnic group who have a cycle-based Taositic faith.Each claim to be the real Russians, and Russian life is militarised and run by theological cliques. There is a tax on the use of pollysyllabic words, homeless men have been turned into pets that middle class families can apply to own, and Islamic terrorists run theme parks where you can pay to be kidnapped...and so on.

It is 439 pages long - a sprawling wooly mammoth of a novel.( So, as Alan Partridge put it `Don't drop it on your foot!` In fact, the translator had to come some of it out!) There is something in it to offend everyone, Russians in particular, and it caused a bit of a stir when it was published in Russia in 2006.

Western critics have compared it to `Catch 22` and indeed, some of the black military humour is similar, but there is more going on than that. The devil is in all the little details and you pick more up each time you read it.

If you are interested in Russian culture or enjoy dark satirical comedy then this is for you - but it's not an easy read. As I say, this is my third attempt, and I'm mining a lot more out of it this time around.
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Definitely on my list!
 
Zeke Newbold said:
Tell us about your favourite dystopian novels and films here.
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Arthur C Clarke's The City and the Stars is a particular favourite. I have returned to it many times. Just mentioning it makes me want to read it again. So I think I shall.
 
Cormac McCarthy's The Road is a hard read. I think it's the only novel to ever make me cry. I haven't read it twice yet, but it was amazing.
There was a passable film adaptation, but never mind about that. McCarthy's style has been a bit of an influence on my own. So much darkness but I just can't look away. Mesmerising talent.

The-road.jpg
 
I've only seen the film of The Road, but the movie wasn't very easy either. I think it is one of the best, bleakest, most impactful dystopian settings, because it is so real. No killer robots, or aliens. Just the stark reality of what choices will be left to us. And how quickly what we have can slip away.

Also, Bladerunner, on a less "realistic" note. That being said, maybe the most realistic of all, though not obvious at first glance, will end up being Terminator. (minus the time travel bit!)

Or 1984.
 
Pretty well anything by J G Ballard fits the bill, but The Crystal World, The Atrocity Exhibition and, my personal favourite, High Rise, which I first read almost 30 years ago, stand out.
Ben Wheatley's 2015 movie of High Rise seems to polarise opinion, but I enjoyed it and felt it was a very brave attempt to capture the social commentary, black humour and unsettling atmosphere of a dystopia not far removed from our life today.

Like this collection of High Rise cover art. The copy I read was 3rd from the top;

http://www.4thestate.co.uk/2015/11/high-rise-40-years-of-cover-design/
 
blessmycottonsocks said:
Pretty well anything by J G Ballard fits the bill, but The Crystal World, The Atrocity Exhibition and, my personal favourite, High Rise, which I first read almost 30 years ago, stand out.
Ben Wheatley's 2015 movie of High Rise seems to polarise opinion, but I enjoyed it and felt it was a very brave attempt to capture the social commentary, black humour and unsettling atmosphere of a dystopia not far removed from our life today.

Like this collection of High Rise cover art. The copy I read was 3rd from the top;

http://www.4thestate.co.uk/2015/11/high-rise-40-years-of-cover-design/
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I read the 1977 version, second from the top.

Apart from the three biggies (1984, Brave New World, Fahrenheit 451), How about Ridley Walker, by Russell Hoban, Stand on Zanzibar, John Brunner, and Harry Harrison's 'Make room! make room!' (which is much more downbeat and believable than Soylent Green).
The supposed dates of some of the older dystopias have passed - I suppose they're now out there in some alternative universes.
 
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Gizmos Mama said:
I think it is one of the best, bleakest, most impactful dystopian settings, because it is so real. No killer robots, or aliens. Just the stark reality of what choices will be left to us. And how quickly what we have can slip away.
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:nods:
 
Timble2 said:
I read the 1977 version, second from the top.

Apart from the three biggies (1984, Brave New World, Fahrenheit 451), How about Ridley Walker, by Russell Hoban, Stand on Zanzibar, John Brunner, and Harry Harrison's 'Make room! make room!' (which is much more downbeat and believable than Soylent Green).
The supposed dates of some of the older dystopias have passed - I suppose they're now out there in some alternative universes.
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Great call for Make Room! Make Room!
Given today's gross overpopulation, that is another dystopian prediction that is definitely coming true.
 
'The Machine Stops' : E M Forster.

I can see a future Earth in this book.

INT21
 
skinny said:
Cormac McCarthy's The Road is a hard read. I think it's the only novel to ever make me cry. I haven't read it twice yet, but it was amazing.
There was a passable film adaptation, but never mind about that. McCarthy's style has been a bit of an influence on my own. So much darkness but I just can't look away. Mesmerising talent.

The-road.jpg
Click to expand...

I cry at everything, but very few things like this. It was so bloody grim and just without any sort of hope at all. I couldn't read it again.

The Handmaid's Tale is an obvious one and well worth reading if you haven't already. And I am Legend was a terribly difficult read. Bleak, bleak, bleak, bleak - oh! A nice thing...nope, bleak, bleak, bleak, the end.
 
I read 1984 in 1983 (trying to beat the date). Then I read Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago. Orwell must have been on to something -- except for dates and places, it was virtually the same book!
 
A few Honourable Mentions:

`Rollerball` because it's actually set in 2018! Has anyone read the short story from which the famous film was adapted? Is it any good?

`Lord of the Flies` by William Golding. Well, you know this one. But people tend to forget that it's set in a post-nuclear war near future and hence counts as a dystopian Science fiction novel, one one level.

`A Quiet Place` by Richard Maynard. A strangely neglected novel from the early Eighties by a Brit/ Aussie. A group of seven astronauts return to Earth - following faster than light excursion - in the far future (a la `Planet of the Apes`) only to find that society has degenerated back to the stone age (the reason given for this hinges on the mass use of an anti-aging drug). A rather grim and sometimes over-written novel,a and something of an exercise in Alpha Male survivalism, albeit with a conscience.

`Day World` by Philip Jose Farmer. This has such a brilliant premise. In order to tackle the over-population problem people are kept in suspended animation underground. They are then released on alternating days of the year to live their lives for one day before being returned to sleep. Thus the space on the ground is ot overcrowded and everyone gets some chance to enjoy it. Of course, not everyone likes this solution....

`We` by Evgeniy Zamyatin. A novel which had a direct and obvious impact on `Brave New World` and `Nineteen Eighty Four` - the latter of which was openly acknowledged in an an essay that Orwell wrote on the writer. Zamyatin wrote in the Russia of the twenties and the Soviets banned this novel, seeing it - I believe wrongly as it happens -as a satire on the Soviet system. The only thing that prevents this novel from being as much revered as its succsessors is the somewhat avant garde prose-poerty style that Zamyatin adopted.
 
Zeke Newbold said:
`Day World` by Philip Jose Farmer. This has such a brilliant premise. In order to tackle the over-population problem people are kept in suspended animation underground. They are then released on alternating days of the year to live their lives for one day before being returned to sleep. Thus the space on the ground is ot overcrowded and everyone gets some chance to enjoy it. Of course, not everyone likes this solution....
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A truly great Dystopian Trilogy.
 
Just looking at my library.

I do have 'Dayworld Breakup'. Can't remember it though. another one to re-read later; after 'Gnomon' and 'An Uncertain Midnight'.

INT21
 
Mythopoeika said:
Anybody read Earth Abides? I had an old edition that I picked up at a collector's fair.
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Fantastic book, really moving and well thought out, influential too. But not really a dystopia, there's no totalitarianism in the society it depicts, if anything it sees our society replaced by a lack of one.
 
GNC said:
Fantastic book, really moving and well thought out, influential too. But not really a dystopia, there's no totalitarianism in the society it depicts, if anything it sees our society replaced by a lack of one.
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Hmmm, yes, I suppose it's more 'post-apocalyptic' than 'dystopian'.
 
So I'm re-reading A Clockwork Orange.

I first read this when I was a mixed up hipster of about 23 and sort of shrugged my shoulders over it. For all the books reputation as a yoof-cult number, I am getting far more out of it this time as an oldster - a `starry lewdie`.

This maybe partly because I'm now a learner of Russian and can appreciate all the Russlish wordplay in it (and it contains a surprising amount for a novel aimed at the general reader).

Burgess who claimed (pretended?) to be a bit embarrased by his creation later said that the language aspect was a way of distancing the reader from all the `pornography of violence`. If so, this ploy fails: the language obliges you to linger over the violent scenes (some of which are quite distressing) just because you have to work out what the guy is saying.

The novel seems a bit like Doctor Jekyll and Mr Hyde in reverse. In Stevenson's tale a decent man is corrupted into evil by the intervention of Science - in a Clockwork Orange it is sort of the reverse.

The novel has been over-mythologised because of its association with a once banned film. Read just as a science fiction dystopia it's horrorshow - on a par with Fahrenheit 451 but not quite up there with We, Brave New World and Nineteen Eighty Four.
 
Can't avoid talking about Blade Runner, but also Dredd (2012) and Akira(1988) are pretty good.

I like those movies where you can immerse yourself into the dystopy while watching.
 
Zeke Newbold,

I would strongly recommend you read 'The Machine Stops'.

When one considers the technology available when the book was written, it really is quite remarkable.

INT21
 
Here's a new PC game called Cyberpunk 2077 with an immersive dystopia.


And not to forget the original Blade Runner PC-game

 
If we’re talking about dystopias, I always thought that Chigley was a grimmer, more brutal existence for the locals than for those in the neighbouring towns of Trumpton and Camberwick Green.

I remember the bosses made them dance after work instead of going home after work which looks like a sinister Illuminati forced breeding programme if ever I saw one.
Or something out of The Handmaid’s Tale.

 
An article about some modern and classic Dystopian novels.

A Golden Age for Dystopian Fiction
What to make of our new literature of radical pessimism.
By Jill Lepore

Liberal and conservative dystopias do battle, in proxy wars of the imagination.Illustration by Daniel Zender
Here are the plots of some new dystopian novels, set in the near future. The world got too hot, so a wealthy celebrity persuaded a small number of very rich people to move to a makeshift satellite that, from orbit, leaches the last nourishment the earth has to give, leaving everyone else to starve. The people on the satellite have lost their genitals, through some kind of instant mutation or super-quick evolution, but there is a lot of sex anyway, since it’s become fashionable to have surgical procedures to give yourself a variety of appendages and openings, along with decorative skin grafts and tattoos, there being so little else to do. There are no children, but the celebrity who rules the satellite has been trying to create them by torturing women from the earth’s surface. (“We are what happens when the seemingly unthinkable celebrity rises to power,” the novel’s narrator says.)

Or: North Korea deployed a brain-damaging chemical weapon that made everyone in the United States, or at least everyone in L.A., an idiot, except for a few people who were on a boat the day the scourge came, but the idiots, who are otherwise remarkably sweet, round up and kill those people, out of fear. Led by a man known only as the Chief, the idiots build a wall around downtown to keep out the Drifters and the stupidest people, the Shamblers, who don’t know how to tie shoes or button buttons; they wander around, naked and barefoot. Thanks, in part, to the difficulty of clothing, there is a lot of sex, random and unsatisfying, but there are very few children, because no one knows how to take care of them. (The jacket copy bills this novel as “the first book of the Trump era.”) ...

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/06/05/a-golden-age-for-dystopian-fiction
 
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