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H. P. Lovecraft

In taste and scent, no argument. Though it is possible to assess and rank certain skills, and no writer whatsoever is equally skilled at all facets of his craft, what constitutes good or bad writing varies with your standards, taste, and criteria. When measured according to audience response and influence on other writers (one legitimate, but not the only legitimate, system for rating an author), Poe and Lovecraft have to be accounted as great writers.

Whether they are the greatest bad writers, or the worst great writers, in the history of the language, is entirely a personal judgement call. A strong case can be made for either. And they both have strengths as critics, much of which they squandered in their lifetimes on what we can now see were petty distractions.

We must not commit the supreme folly of confusing our own taste with reality.
 
The thing Lovecraft had was an ability to think outside the convential horror box. Rather than fall back on the prosaic horrors of conventional Judeo-Christianity and the monsters thereof he offered horrors that are as far from those as it's possible to be. Otherworldly horror, that works because the humans are so utterly inconsequential before a huge uncaring universe.

The prose is sometimes purple, the situations occasionally racist and/or sexist and the social and personal situations very stilted, which was to be fair was a reflection of the man himself. Look beyond this to the concepts being presented and there is something very special with Lovecraft.
 
JamesWhitehead said:
I don't feel that any such allowances need to be made about Hoffmann, Novalis or Baudelaire - to take three writers of fantastic fiction more or less at random. But Poe and Lovecraft seem impressive only at a distance.

...
It may be more of a translation thing. Poe was very popular in France, probably, at least partly, because Baudelaire was one of his first translators.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_allan_poe#Literary_influence

...

Poe was also known as a writer of fiction and became one of the first American authors of the 19th century to become more popular in Europe than in the United States.[108] Poe is particularly respected in France, in part due to early translations by Charles Baudelaire. Baudelaire's translations became definitive renditions of Poe's work throughout Europe.[109]

Poe's early detective fiction tales featuring C. Auguste Dupin laid the groundwork for future detectives in literature. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle said, "Each [of Poe's detective stories] is a root from which a whole literature has developed.... Where was the detective story until Poe breathed the breath of life into it?"[110] The Mystery Writers of America have named their awards for excellence in the genre the "Edgars".[111] Poe's work also influenced science fiction, notably Jules Verne, who wrote a sequel to Poe's novel The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym of Nantucket called An Antarctic Mystery, also known as The Sphinx of the Ice Fields.[112] Science fiction author H. G. Wells noted, "Pym tells what a very intelligent mind could imagine about the south polar region a century ago."[113]
...
Just how much of an influence was Poe on the prose and poetry of Baudelaire, I wonder? Even more surely, Poe must have had an influence on the work of his fellow New Englander, Lovecraft.
http://alangullette.com/lit/hpl/bloch.htm

Poe & Lovecraft

by Robert Bloch [Reprinted from Ambrosia No. 2 (Aug. 1973)]

Comparisons between Edgar Allan Poe and Howard Phillips Lovecraft are, I suppose, inevitable; seemingly, in recent years [writing in 1973] they are also interminable.
I shall not, therefore, repeat the usual recital of similarities to be found within their work -- there will be no mention of black cats, revenants, or Antarctic settings per se.
But at the same time I have no intention of making a calculated bid for attention by deliberately asserting, as some have also declared, that no real resemblance exists aside from superficial employment of stock characters and themes common to virtually all stories in the genre.
To me, this is an untenable statement: Lovecraft, like every writer of fantasy and horror fiction subsequent to Poe, was necessarily influenced by the work of his predecessor -- and to certain extent his work needs must be derivative in some slight sense. Actually, Lovecraft's homage to Poe in his essay Supernatural Horror In Literature, indicates a degree of appreciation and admiration which leaves no doubt as to the profound impression made upon him by the earlier master.
But to me the most fruitful area of comparison lies within an examination of the backgrounds and personalities of the writers themselves.

Consider the facts. Both Poe and Lovecraft were New England born. Both were, to all intents and purposes, fatherless at an early age. Both developed a lifelong affinity for poetry and the elements of a classical education Both utilized archaisms in their writing styles and affected personal eccentricities which in time became consciously cultivated.
Although Poe spent a part of his youth in England and travelled along the Atlantic seaboard in later life -- and while Lovecraft ventured up into Canada and down into Florida on vacations a few years prior to his death -- neither man ever ventured west of the Alleghenies. Lovecraft, on one occasion, did skirt them to visit E. Hoffman Price briefly in his New Orleans home, but essentially he and Poe were Easterners. Their outlook was, to a marked degree, provincial; even parochial.
Both men distrusted "foreigners" in the mass: both retained a profound admiration for the English. These attitudes are plainly evident in their work, which is many particulars removed and remote form the main current of American life.
A reader attempting to capture some glimpse of the United States in the 1830-1850 period would gain small enlightenment from the poetry and fiction of Poe. At a time when the entire nation was engaged in a westward thrust, beginning with the peregrinations of the mountain men and ending with the Gold Rush in the year of Poe's death, one searches in vain for a wet which does not seemingly even exist in his literary compass.
Byronic heroes sequestered in British and continental locales scarcely reflect the American attitudes or aptitudes in the era of Old Hickory, Davy Crockett, the fall of the Alamo, the Mexican War and the growing turmoil over slavery.
Nor would a reader find more typically American protagonists amongst the pendants, professors and regionally-oriented recluses of Lovecraft's tales, in which there's scarcely a hint of the manners and mores of the Roaring Twenties or the Great Depression which followed in the ensuing decade. Aside from a few remarks regarding the influx of immigrants and concomitant destruction of old folkways and landmarks, plus brief mentions of the (intellectually) "wild" college set, Lovecraft ignores the post WW1 Jazz Age in its entirety: Coolidge, Hoover, FDR, Lindbergh, Babe Ruth, Al Capone, Valentino, Mencken and the prototypes of Babbit have no existence in HPL's realm. It is difficult to believe that Howard Phillips Lovecraft was a literary contemporary of Ernest Hemingway.

And yet a further comparison between Lovecraft and Poe remains; one of profound importance in any consideration of their work, because it softens any charge that two writers were totally unaware of the actual world and unrealistic in their treatment of their times.
I refer, of course, to their mutual interest in science. Both Poe and Lovecraft were acute observers of the scientific and pseudo-scientific developments of their respective days, and both men utilized thee latest theories and discoveries in their writing. It is only necessary to cite Poe's use of mesmerism, his employment of the balloon hoax, his detailing of data in the Arthur Gordon Pym novella, to prove the point.
Lovecraft, for his part, relies on scientific background material in his Pym-like At the Mountains of Madness, "The Shadow Out of Time" and other efforts; notable is his immediate adoption of the newly discovered "ninth planet" in "The Whisperer in Darkness."
Lovecraft's interest in astronomy undoubtedly led to his increasing interest in other fields of scientific endeavor, just as Poe's early experiences at West Point must have fostered his preoccupation with codes an ciphers. And both men, as professional writers, were well and widely-read in the contemporary work of their day: Poe as a working critic, demonstrates his knowledge in his nonfictional efforts and Lovecraft, in his correspondence, proves himself no stranger to Proust, Joyce, Spengler and Freud.

But the point is that Poe and Lovecraft deliberately chose to turn their backs on contemporary styles and subject-matter and created their own individual worlds of fantasy. In this above all else they were similar.
And in this, above all else, we readers of Poe and Lovecraft are fortunate indeed. We shall never know, and never care, what Edgar Allan Poe though of Andy Jackson's "kitchen cabinet" or how H. P. Lovecraft regarded the Teapot Dome scandal. Small loss, when both have given us glimpses of worlds peculiarly and provocatively their very own.
For the final similarity is this -- Poe and Lovecraft are our two American geniuses of fantasy, comparable each to the other, but incomparably superior to all the rest who follow in their wake.

Copyright Notice. This article was first published in Ambrosia #2 (August, 1973), © 1973 Alan Gullette and Robert Bloch. It was subsequently revised slightly by the author and reprinted in H.P. Lovecraft: Four Decades of Criticism, ed. S. T. Joshi (Athens, OH: Ohio University Press, 1980), pp. 158-160, © 1980 Ohio University Press. The present text is the original.
Worlds and styles, out of time. Can't say fairer than that. :)
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/ju ... r-out-time

Good to see some coverage in the Graunid, and a lively discussion following --

"Not only was the work of Howard Phillips Lovecraft uniformly bleak, but what he did write was sometimes execrable. Take this random passage from a 1985 HP Lovecraft omnibus: "But oddly enough, the worthy gentleman owned himself most impalpably disquieted by a mere minor detail. On the huge mahogany table there lay face downward a badly worn copy of Borellus, bearing many cryptical marginalia and interlineations in Curwen's hand."

The American writer, who died in 1937, is also widely considered today to have had unacceptable racist views. And yet, despite his prejudices and stylistic shortcomings, his work remains insanely popular. A Kickstarter appeal to fund a life-sized bust of the writer – for the Athanaeum Library, in his hometown of Providence in Rhode Island – roared past its target of $30,000 in a couple of days, closing at $55,000..."
 
Pietro_Mercurios said:
An HP Lovecraft doc. on YouTube.

http://youtu.be/Spoz_1KyZiA

Just the thing to wile away the night?

Interesting doc. I'm glad they mentioned (at least briefly) the way some believe in the Old Ones as real deities...I remember reading about that in FT some years ago.

Re: the Lovecraft vs Poe debate - we had to study Poe in high school, but if anyone had suggested studying Lovecraft I think our teacher would have had an attack of the vapors. The very idea! :lol:

I still occasionally see gloomy teenagers (usually wearing lots of black eyeliner ;)) carrying volumes of Poe, but I sense that something in Lovecraft is reflecting the modern psyche. That particular feeling of alienation, perhaps.
 
Miskatonic University: Short (36 minutes) Horror Film based on Lovecraft's stories. An English professor moves to Miskatonic University to carry out research. Its attractions include a copy of The Necronium in the college library. The professor is plagued by nightmares and daymares regarding his Occult experiences in the Great Southern Desert during WW1. 7/10.

Full film:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3135404/
 
Currently reading the complete works (either free or incredib;y cheap on Kindle).

I don't mind the prose style although some of the stories are a bit meh - I'm looking at you, Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath - but overall still very creepy and worthwhile after all these years.
 
Lovecraft's style was sometimes awkward and there is recurring phraseology unique to him as a writer.
Perhaps that's why his work has stayed in people's minds for so long? His uniqueness?
 
I don't mind the prose style although some of the stories are a bit meh - I'm looking at you, Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath - but overall still very creepy and worthwhile after all these years.

I struggled with Dream-Quest..., but ultimately it's become one of my favourite stories. In spite of the naff ending.

The film above is okay. In a sense, I'm surprised Lovecraft's work hasn't been more faithfully and successfully adapted on film. Although there have been notable adaptations, Lovecraft seems to have inspired more than he directly engendered. I had a thought the other day that, in a way, Cthulhu is the earliest kaiju that I can think of.
 
Guillermo Del Toro has had a production of Mountains of Madness on the cards for a number of years and had planned to do start production on it when some film exec waved a huge cheque under his nose to make Hellboy II instead.

It remains to be seen whether it will ever get made, probably the biggest problem is its similarity to certain elements of the 1982 The Thing.
 
I never got into the Dream Quest stuff either. Actually Del Toro said that Prometheus was quite similar to what he had planned, so he shelved Mountains of Madness for that reason.
 
Currently reading the complete works (either free or incredib;y cheap on Kindle).

I don't mind the prose style although some of the stories are a bit meh...

I'm doing exactly the same thing, although I have only just started. The stories seem to be in no particular order, and I'm reading in 15-minutes slots before sleep, so I can see myself having to start again to do the tales justice. It would help if I knew which stories to skip over completely, though, so I can give the best ones the attention they deserve!
 
I'm doing exactly the same thing, although I have only just started. The stories seem to be in no particular order, and I'm reading in 15-minutes slots before sleep, so I can see myself having to start again to do the tales justice. It would help if I knew which stories to skip over completely, though, so I can give the best ones the attention they deserve!

The Case of Charles Dexter Ward and Herbert West - Reanimator are some of the most accessible of Lovecraft. Herbert West is almost fast-paced!

The Mountains of Madness is long but worth sticking with, leave that until you are used to him!

The Shadow out of Innsmouth is a great story as is the Call of Cuthulhu. The Color Out of Space and the Lurking Fear are some of his best also.

Probably avoid the Randolph Carter stories as they can be a bit hard going as is The Doom that came to Sarnath.

The one exception is Carter in The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath, which is good if you like Cats, (see also the Cats of Ulthar), or Ghouls, or Cats and Ghouls.

The best Lovecraft are those stories set on earth in and around New England. The worst ones are those set in other worldly civilizations. The Quest of Irano, The Silver Key, The White Ship are all pretty bad.
 
Guillermo Del Toro has had a production of Mountains of Madness on the cards for a number of years and had planned to do start production on it when some film exec waved a huge cheque under his nose to make Hellboy II instead.

It remains to be seen whether it will ever get made, probably the biggest problem is its similarity to certain elements of the 1982 The Thing.

I read something from GdT not long ago along the lines of "If I was a very rich man I would be making Hellboy 3, Pacific Rim 2, and At the Mountains of Madness. And I would soon become a poor man"

Some of films that he has been set to direct and has (for whatever reason) ended up not actually getting to make them would have been amazing - I still live in hope of his AtMoM finally seeing the light of day, but I think the fact it would likely have to be 18 / R rated to be effective would put off a lot of studios from bankrolling it.
 
I read something from GdT not long ago along the lines of "If I was a very rich man I would be making Hellboy 3, Pacific Rim 2, and At the Mountains of Madness. And I would soon become a poor man"

Some of films that he has been set to direct and has (for whatever reason) ended up not actually getting to make them would have been amazing - I still live in hope of his AtMoM finally seeing the light of day, but I think the fact it would likely have to be 18 / R rated to be effective would put off a lot of studios from bankrolling it.

Maybe HBO or some other upmarket TV outfit would fund AtMoM as a mini-series. Hes already moved into television with The Strain.
 
The Case of Charles Dexter Ward and Herbert West - Reanimator are some of the most accessible of Lovecraft. Herbert West is almost fast-paced!

The Mountains of Madness is long but worth sticking with, leave that until you are used to him!

The Shadow out of Innsmouth is a great story as is the Call of Cuthulhu. The Color Out of Space and the Lurking Fear are some of his best also.

Probably avoid the Randolph Carter stories as they can be a bit hard going as is The Doom that came to Sarnath.

The one exception is Carter in The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath, which is good if you like Cats, (see also the Cats of Ulthar), or Ghouls, or Cats and Ghouls.

The best Lovecraft are those stories set on earth in and around New England. The worst ones are those set in other worldly civilizations. The Quest of Irano, The Silver Key, The White Ship are all pretty bad.

I'd mostly agree with this - especially At the Mountains of Madness. For some ridiculous reason, the anthologies I got when I was fresh-faced, long-haired and just off to University had this as the first story in the first volume. I got through it, but it was a bit of a slog.

For easy reading go for The Picture in the House, The Outsider (although I find that one a little bit too Hammer Horror), The Rats in the Walls (outstanding, with special mention for perhaps the most outrageously racist name for a cat), Pickman's Model and The Music of Erich Zann. Oddly enough, none of these have any overt mention of the Cthulhu Mythos big hitters, although there is an implication of it in Erich Zann.

He also wrote some fucking awful crap (admittedly quite a lot of it ghost written), ones to avoid include The Street, The Horror at Red Hook, The White Ship and Arthur Jermyn (or the White Ape).

The dream stuff tends to divide opinion, especially Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath - what I will say is it is surely heavy going. However, I must disagree that you should avoid The Quest of Iranon - yes, it's kind of formulaic, and doesn't really go anywhere but I really like it, and the last lines will always bring a lump to my throat. It's not many writers that can do that.
 
If they make Shadow Over Innsmouth they should cast Burn Gorman, he has the face for it.
 
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