'Havana Syndrome': Diplomatic Staff Malaise In Cuba & China—A Sonic Or Microwave Weapon?

It's a little disconcerting how disordered the response to this situation appears in the latest article. Various factions in the US government are rushing to judgement, either to blame their favorite enemy for orchestrating attacks, or to debunk the idea that anything untoward is even happening. Why not run an impartial investigation and see where it leads?

While I still think that organized attacks of the nature described are plausible, the case remains very much unproven.
 
Aether Blue said:
It's a little disconcerting how disordered the response to this situation appears in the latest article. Various factions in the US government are rushing to judgement, either to blame their favorite enemy for orchestrating attacks, or to debunk the idea that anything untoward is even happening. Why not run an impartial investigation and see where it leads?

While I still think that organized attacks of the nature described are plausible, the case remains very much unproven.
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An impartial investigation would be extremely difficult. It would involve some rather long-term work in the places where it had been alleged to have happened. It's unlikely the same conditions still exist. The medical evaluation that occurred did not use a control group as a comparison for "brain injuries". There are almost uncountable other factors at play for such a social situation that these victims were in. IOW, too many unknowns that just can't be answered. So, it wouldn't get us anywhere. But, someone will probably try to pour a bunch of money into one and it won't help at all. (See, "UFOs")
 
Sharon Hill said:
An impartial investigation would be extremely difficult. It would involve some rather long-term work in the places where it had been alleged to have happened. It's unlikely the same conditions still exist. The medical evaluation that occurred did not use a control group as a comparison for "brain injuries". There are almost uncountable other factors at play for such a social situation that these victims were in. IOW, too many unknowns that just can't be answered. So, it wouldn't get us anywhere. But, someone will probably try to pour a bunch of money into one and it won't help at all. (See, "UFOs")
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Also, the places and the people this is happening to are probably high level security clearance so who could investigate them who had an open mind and the requisite security clearance?
 
This new Guardian article provides information about American microwave weapons research in the 1960s / 1970s and the possibility that this line of research (abandoned by the USA) was pursued by Russia and / or China. The effects noted in the old American research match the early symptoms cited in "Havana Syndrome" reports.
Microwave weapons that could cause Havana Syndrome exist, experts say

Russia and possibly China have developed technology capable of injuring brain and a US company made a prototype in 2004

Portable microwave weapons capable of causing the mysterious spate of “Havana Syndrome” brain injuries in US diplomats and spies have been developed by several countries in recent years, according to leading American experts in the field.

A US company also made the prototype of such a weapon for the marine corps in 2004. The weapon, codenamed Medusa, was intended to be small enough to fit in a car, and cause a “temporarily incapacitating effect” but “with a low probability of fatality or permanent injury”.

There is no evidence that the research was taken beyond the prototype phase, and a report on that stage has been removed from a US navy website. Scientists with knowledge of the project said that ethical considerations preventing human experimentation contributed to the project being shelved – but they said such consideration had not hindered US adversaries, including Russia, and possibly China. ...
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FULL STORY: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jun/02/microwave-weapons-havana-syndrome-experts
 
'Havana syndrome'-like mystery illness affects Vienna US diplomats

BBC Europe
Published 1 hour ago

The US government is investigating a series of health incidents in the Austrian capital Vienna involving its diplomats and other administration staff.

More than 20 officials have reported symptoms similar to Havana Syndrome - a mystery brain illness - since President Joe Biden took office in January.

The syndrome is unexplained, but US scientists say it is most probably caused by directed microwave radiation.

It was first found in Cuba in 2016-17.

US and Canadian diplomats in Havana complained of symptoms ranging from dizziness, loss of balance, hearing loss and anxiety to something they described as "cognitive fog".

(...)

In June, US Secretary of State Antony Blinken announced a wide-ranging review into the causes of the illness.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57875322
 
And now Germany.

At least two U.S. officials stationed in Germany sought medical care for symptoms of Havana Syndrome, which has been attributed to a concentrated electromagnetic wave attack causing nausea, dizziness, and cognitive impairment. According to The Wall Street Journal, it is the first time the syndrome has been reported in Germany.

Some victims were intelligence officers or diplomats working on Russia-related issues such as gas exports, cybersecurity and political interference, according to U.S. diplomats and people familiar with an investigation into the illness.
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https://boingboing.net/2021/08/18/t...any-treated-for-havana-syndrome-symptoms.html
 
*Shrugs*

The widespread nature of this phenomenon is additional evidence against it being some secret weapon. And because it's happening to "officials" around the world (mostly Americans) makes it more plausible that it's psychogenic.
 
Psychogenic? Caused by aerosolised LSD or similar?
 
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It's clearly concerning the U.S. government.

The Vice-President's itinerary was disrupted because of fears over an 'anomalous health incident' in Hanoi, Vietnam:

In a statement, the US State Department said that Ms Harris's departure from Singapore to Hanoi was delayed after reports of a "possible anomalous health incident" there.​
​
The department added that "after careful assessment", Ms Harris and her delegation decided to continue the trip to Hanoi, where she has now arrived.​
​
A senior official quoted by CBS News said that at least one official had to be medically evacuated over the weekend. He added that the incident is not the first case of Havana syndrome reported in Vietnam.​
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NBC News has reported that two officials were evacuated after "acoustic" incidents were reported in the homes of two US diplomats.​
​
Full Article (mostly a recap):​
 
From BBC Radio 4's Crossing Continents today -

The Mystery of Havana Syndrome

Be warned, there are brief simulations of the sounds described!


Gordon Corera investigates the mysterious illness that has struck American diplomats and spies.

It began after some reported hearing strange sounds in Havana 2016, but reports have since spread around the world.

Doctors, scientists, intelligence agents and government officials have all been trying to find out what exactly causes these sounds and the lingering health effects.

Some call it an act of war, others wonder if it is some new and secret form of surveillance while others believe it could even be in the mind.

So who or what is responsible?
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So it's back to unexplained.

"Havana syndrome" is the term widely used in the United States to describe symptoms reportedly suffered by staff at Washington's embassies in Cuba and other countries across the globe.

But the Biden administration has quietly renamed the malady to cut the reference to the capital city in which it was first observed.

"We refer to these incidents as 'unexplained health incidents' or 'UHIs,'" a State Department spokesperson told Newsweek.

The new title reflects the mysterious nature of the supposed disease, whose apparent effects have since spread far from Cuba to impact U.S. diplomats and officials in Austria, China, Russia, and even in Washington near the White House itself. Symptoms include dizziness, headaches, loss of hearing, and confusion, and even reports of lasting brain damage in some cases.

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But little more is known about the ailment that has sent two successive U.S. administrations scrambling to search for a cause for the ailments that were first reported at the U.S. embassy in Cuba in late 2016. They were swiftly blamed, without conclusive evidence, on the Communist-led island state by then-President Donald Trump after coming to office in 2017. The effort to explain the phenomena has continued under Biden, who has established an interagency investigation.

https://www.newsweek.com/havana-syn...-incidents-us-backs-down-blaming-cuba-1625190
 
Now a CIA chief is removed for not taking it seriously.

The CIA has reportedly removed its station chief in Vienna for not responding appropriately to an outbreak of the mysterious Havana syndrome.

Dozens of US personnel in the Austrian capital and their children have reported symptoms of the syndrome, according to the Washington Post.

The condition first emerged at the US embassy in Havana, Cuba, in 2016. Those affected say they hear buzzing sounds coming from one direction, and feel pressure in their heads. Others have complained of nausea, dizziness and fatigue, among other symptoms. There have been more cases of the syndrome in Vienna than in any city other than Havana, the Post reports.

The CIA declined to comment on the report when contacted by news agencies. The paper quotes unnamed US officials saying that removing the top officer in Vienna would send a message that leaders should take Havana syndrome seriously.

Earlier this week it emerged that a CIA officer travelling to India this month with the agency's director, William J Burns, had reported symptoms of the syndrome.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58675144
 
This would certainly appear to be some sort of directed energy weapon, probably microwave.
Probably developed from the crowd control version, the so-called Active Denial System.
Curious that what began in Cuba has migrated to other places with easy access for agents from certain quarters.
 
ramonmercado said:
Now a CIA chief is removed for not taking it seriously.

The CIA has reportedly removed its station chief in Vienna for not responding appropriately to an outbreak of the mysterious Havana syndrome.

Dozens of US personnel in the Austrian capital and their children have reported symptoms of the syndrome, according to the Washington Post.

The condition first emerged at the US embassy in Havana, Cuba, in 2016. Those affected say they hear buzzing sounds coming from one direction, and feel pressure in their heads. Others have complained of nausea, dizziness and fatigue, among other symptoms. There have been more cases of the syndrome in Vienna than in any city other than Havana, the Post reports.

The CIA declined to comment on the report when contacted by news agencies. The paper quotes unnamed US officials saying that removing the top officer in Vienna would send a message that leaders should take Havana syndrome seriously.

Earlier this week it emerged that a CIA officer travelling to India this month with the agency's director, William J Burns, had reported symptoms of the syndrome.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58675144
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Is this syndrome only affecting US diplomatic staff or are other countries diplomats reporting similar symptoms?
 
Ascalon said:
This would certainly appear to be some sort of directed energy weapon, probably microwave.
Probably developed from the crowd control version, the so-called Active Denial System.
Curious that what began in Cuba has migrated to other places with easy access for agents from certain quarters.
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It doesn't appear to be that unless you just go by media headlines. It's people speculating that it's that. We've got nothing better to go on.
I remain entirely unconvinced by the subjective evidence that has been released so far (maybe there is better evidence that has not been released, but I wouldn't know that). Speaking about the NAS report:

“The report does not make a coherent argument why microwaves should be involved,” said University of Pennsylvania bioengineer Kenneth Foster, who first described the mechanism behind the Frey effect in 1974. The effect requires very high power levels to produce barely audible sounds, he said, and it’s not known to cause injuries. “Maybe someone went to the trouble to truck in a large microwave transmitter to cause the employees to hear ‘clicks,’ but there are simpler ways to harass people than that,” he said.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/danvergano/microwave-attacks-havana-syndrome-diplomats

So, those who actually know about directed energy weapons are not finding this explanation plausible. If someone has better sources than the JAMA or NAS reports done so far, please share because both of those left more questions than answers.
 
I'm leaning towards mass delusion as an explanation, it seems to be the in thing to be deluded and allowing that delusion to have you make reckless decisions or see or hear things that were never there. Mind you, this trend does seem to be accompanied hand in hand by an extreme reluctance to admit they're wrong, not sure where that fits here. Or maybe it does?
 
Sharon Hill said:
It doesn't appear to be that unless you just go by media headlines. It's people speculating that it's that. We've got nothing better to go on.
I remain entirely unconvinced by the subjective evidence that has been released so far (maybe there is better evidence that has not been released, but I wouldn't know that). Speaking about the NAS report:

“The report does not make a coherent argument why microwaves should be involved,” said University of Pennsylvania bioengineer Kenneth Foster, who first described the mechanism behind the Frey effect in 1974. The effect requires very high power levels to produce barely audible sounds, he said, and it’s not known to cause injuries. “Maybe someone went to the trouble to truck in a large microwave transmitter to cause the employees to hear ‘clicks,’ but there are simpler ways to harass people than that,” he said.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/danvergano/microwave-attacks-havana-syndrome-diplomats

So, those who actually know about directed energy weapons are not finding this explanation plausible. If someone has better sources than the JAMA or NAS reports done so far, please share because both of those left more questions than answers.
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Curious to ask the question 'Sharon,' if it were anything to do with Microwave transmissions, would that transmission have been detectable?
 
Sid said:
Curious to ask the question 'Sharon,' if it were anything to do with Microwave transmissions, would that transmission have been detectable?
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Certainly, if you were looking for them. I don't know anything about how to detect microwaves but because they don't travel far and only via line of sight, the source would have to be close by (or close by some sort of amplifier), I think. Think of garage door openers or key fobs.
 
Sharon Hill said:
Certainly, if you were looking for them. I don't know anything about how to detect microwaves but because they don't travel far and only via line of sight, the source would have to be close by (or close by some sort of amplifier), I think. Think of garage door openers or key fobs.
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Found this webpage on how microwaves are used and how far they can travel. It outlines many things about what they do. https://naturalsociety.com/microwaves/
Further info on how they are used, and apparently they can, and are, used over vast distances like keeping an eye on weather patterns and are bounced, over oceans, global and astronomic uses etc, and that they are used in different forms - high, and low frequencies' which have different uses - also, that Russia banned the use of microwaves because they believed them to be potentially far to dangerous back in 1976.
https://wakeup-world.com/2011/06/15/why-did-russia-ban-the-use-of-microwave-ovens/
 
Sid said:
Found this webpage on how microwaves are used and how far they can travel. It outlines many things about what they do. https://naturalsociety.com/microwaves/
Further info on how they are used, and apparently they can, and are, used over vast distances like keeping an eye on weather patterns and are bounced, over oceans, global and astronomic uses etc, and that they are used in different forms - high, and low frequencies' which have different uses - also, that Russia banned the use of microwaves because they believed them to be potentially far to dangerous back in 1976.
https://wakeup-world.com/2011/06/15/why-did-russia-ban-the-use-of-microwave-ovens/
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Whoa. Sorry, not going to trust that source for science information of any sort. They are incredibly biased. Microwaving food is not dangerous. Lots of BS on that site.
 
Sharon Hill said:
Whoa. Sorry, not going to trust that source for science information of any sort. They are incredibly biased. Microwaving food is not dangerous. Lots of BS on that site.
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Yup, there does seem to be lots of BS on that site (according not only to your own words - but also I notice in the comments section at the end), but that's what I came across when searching for any info on microwaves.
Then again, you get lots of BS on many sites. I guess it's just a case of filtering out the credible, from the none credible to arrive at sensible answers to questions?
Oh, and by-the-way, the ban on microwave devices in Russia was later lifted during Perestroika - responsible for the restructuring of the Soviet Union. (That bit of info is also given on the same BS site!)
 
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The NY Times reports that, as officers hesitate to accept foreign posts due to the apparent rise in reported incidents of concerning symptoms, the CIA is changing its procedure. In one particularly notable development, officers could first volunteer to receive brain scans and lab work prior to accepting a foreign assignment. This is an excellent suggestion. The tests provide a baseline and can be used to compare to later tests if the person reports symptoms. Post-symptomatic testing cannot determine if any anomaly is associated with the reported symptoms or some kind of exposure. The initial study of the first set of people reporting symptoms was inconclusive regarding "brain injuries" or trauma because one couldn’t be certain if the suspected injuries were pre-existing. For example, it was unclear if evidence of concussion was the result of recent exposure to some agent, or of a past injury that went undiagnosed. I also suspect that the testing may serve a secondary purpose: to reassure the officers that the government is concerned about taking their health seriously. If this syndrome is caused by stress-induced mass psychogenic illness, the additional care will go a long way towards alleviating the trouble the US government is experiencing with this frustrating situation. At least 100 CIA officers have suffered symptoms consistent with Havana syndrome since 2016, when, during the Trump administration, tensions with Cuba escalated.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/30/us/politics/havana-syndrome-house-intelligence-committee.html
 
Sharon Hill said:
The NY Times reports that, as officers hesitate to accept foreign posts due to the apparent rise in reported incidents of concerning symptoms, the CIA is changing its procedure. In one particularly notable development, officers could first volunteer to receive brain scans and lab work prior to accepting a foreign assignment. This is an excellent suggestion. The tests provide a baseline and can be used to compare to later tests if the person reports symptoms. Post-symptomatic testing cannot determine if any anomaly is associated with the reported symptoms or some kind of exposure. The initial study of the first set of people reporting symptoms was inconclusive regarding "brain injuries" or trauma because one couldn’t be certain if the suspected injuries were pre-existing. For example, it was unclear if evidence of concussion was the result of recent exposure to some agent, or of a past injury that went undiagnosed. I also suspect that the testing may serve a secondary purpose: to reassure the officers that the government is concerned about taking their health seriously. If this syndrome is caused by stress-induced mass psychogenic illness, the additional care will go a long way towards alleviating the trouble the US government is experiencing with this frustrating situation. At least 100 CIA officers have suffered symptoms consistent with Havana syndrome since 2016, when, during the Trump administration, tensions with Cuba escalated.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/30/us/politics/havana-syndrome-house-intelligence-committee.html
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Well 'Sharon,' it certainly seems like a far more sensible Idea to return to the drawing board (so-to-speak), as a before-and-after study of their officers ~ all be it on a voluntary basis, should highlight some possible cause and effect symptoms you would imagine.
 
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