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How Many Forteans Are Interested In True Crime?

Zeke Newbold

Zeke Newbold

Carbon based biped.
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Apr 18, 2015
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On a recent visit to London I found myself in one of the famous large bookstores - Foyles I think it might have been. After some looking around, I aked a Sales assistant where the Unexplained section was.

`We don't have one`, he replied. `we don't even have a True Crime section`.

The implication of his words stayed with me. They were that there is some implicit connection between True Crime and the Unexplained.

I have pondered this since and yes, I can kind of see what he meant. The BLAZE TV channel, for example, is composed of half crime and half Mysteries of a more Fortean nature, and presumably it knows its constituency. Then there are peop;le like Colin Wilson. This writer covered a great deal of topics connected with the paranormal but also wrote quite a lot about murder and serial killers in particular (to the point where he even became personally acquainted with some of them).

For myself, I have never taken any real interest in the genre of journalism called `True Crime` and, indeed, have always found something a bit suspect and morbid about those that do. Yes, I'm a mild Sherlock Holmes fan ( along with some other detectives) but that is more because I like the characterisation in these stories as well as the slight fantastical horror element to many of them. I also did follow the Harold Shipman case a bit when it was happening, but that is just because I was intrigued as to what the man's motives might have been. Otherwise I take no interest in reading about criminal activities.

So Fess up: what about you? Are you interested in True Crime and, if so, why - and do you see it as part and parcel of your Fortean interrests, and if so why?
 
I went through a phase of being interested in it when I was about 19 or 20, but not really now. I am still interested in cases like The Isdal Woman and other unidentified does, but not things like serial killers or organised crime etc.

The Silent Twins also fascinated me and they do fall under True Crime due to be arsonists.
 
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I do have an interest in true crime, not all cases, but there are some fascinate me and I have a collection of books on. The Manson murders, Jack the Ripper, JFK, The Golden State Killer/Rapist, Richard Ramirez, The Black Dahlia murder, The Zodiac Killer. There are more.
Why does it cross over? I'm not sure really aside from finding the darker side of humanity interesting, also, some of these cases are still unsolved and others (JFK & the Zodiac for example) have had their own industry of conspiracy theories evolve from the crimes which are still evolving to this day.
 
I have no interest whatsoever in true crime other than any cases that occurred close to where I come from, so Jack the Ripper, The Kray twins and other associated crime such as the Great Train Robbery would hold an interest for me.
What peeves me is Apple Podcasts constantly throwing up true crime podcasts as a potential interest because I like paranormal podcasts. If anything, true crime podcast hosts getting humorous and making light of cases, especially relatively recent cases where there are likely still people living who were affected by such crimes, I find much more utterly tasteless than those who do paranormal podcasts for shits and giggles.
 
I am interested in forgeries, hoaxes, unidentified people, disappearances and the suchlike when related to true crime. I am interested in the science and other work involved in detection and have read several tomes regarding developments in forensic sciences. For example The Blooding which relates the first use of DNA analysis to catch the Narborough murderer Colin Pitchfork. What the books often do, which the TV shows often don't is place the victim(s) and their families at the centre of the work rather than reveling in gory details.

I don't have the heart or stomach for what I call 'murder porn'. Cases like the Reinert children disappearance and the related crimes around it haunt me. I don't want to read or hear how vile the Manson crimes were, or similar tales, any more.

Reading the book written by Colin Caffell about the loss of his ex-wife, twin sons and in-laws at White House Farm, and also knowing two people who were victims of homicide cured me of that many years ago. One perpetrator is now released, the other is still in a secure hospital.
 
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Sometimes I will binge on morbid stuff on Youtube. Shrouded Hand is very good at this. He started, iirc, as an excellent source on the artwork of depressed and psychotic folk. Maybe reacting to public interest, he branched into true crime of the most horrid kind. He gives good horror!

Click on a few of his and you will be offered miles and miles of stuff from others, often well-made, plunging into the depths of human misery.

I don't think I begin in any sort of anxious and depressed state. Three hours later, however . . . :eek:
 
I think, very simply, that the investigation of 'true crime' exercises some (but not all) of the same faculties as Forteana: a search for motives, the evaluation of evidence, speculation about mechanisms, and a mind open enough to review and revise theories.

I have no taste for gore, but I'll take a good unsolved mystery if it floats past: odd suicides, the Mafia, assassination—something with complexity.
 
Zeke Newbold said:
The implication of his words stayed with me. They were that there is some implicit connection between True Crime and the Unexplained.
Click to expand...
I think it might be that they occupy a similar publishing/marketing niche, which might be seen by a fancy bookstore employee as a crappy, cheap and exploitative one. Think garish covers.

I did get very into true crime over the past few several years, in the podcast and occasionally documentary format. I find it interesting in terms of criminal psychology and detective work, though sometimes find the details of the crimes distressing to hear about. Nowadays I've moved onto more science-based podcasts which are much less depressing.
 
I'm with Yith here, there's crossover with Forteana, both involve mysteries. I can see some Forteans being into TC and a lower percentage of TC fans being into Forteana. Why the disparity? I suppose Forteana in all it's many aspects and subsets it's just weirder, knotty and far harder to answer. Much of the time there's no satisfying answer, whereas with TC it's almost always "someone or some people killed this person or people" or "this person committed suicide" or "it was an accident". Even if you can't determine who the killer is or the motive, you know that that's what happened. Forteana is nothing if not open ended.

A podcast I used to listen to covered mysteries, some Fortean and a good more unsloved murders and disappearances. I was vaguely interested in the latter but ultimately it all felt a bit sordid and depressing. So, not much interest from me.
 
I'm interested in true crime, but mainly in old cases, such as those in the Victorian, the inter-war period, even those committed during WW2.
Frankly, this is because I'm a reviewer for historical novels and specialise in crime, both fact and fiction.
My long-time interest in Forteana is more of a personal drive.
 
I’m quite interested in True Crime. Every so often I’ll buy books about Jack the Ripper or so on. And I’ve read a few books on Fred and Rose West as geographically Gloucester is quite close and at the time, I knew a chap who’s ran a small building company with his father. They employed West (cash-in-hand) sometimes and he said that West was a damn good worker but now he had to wonder if there were any bodies buried on the sites they worked on. He was only half joking.
However it tends to be more historical cases rather than at the time. After 30-odd years I may read some books but I don’t follow current cases very closely (unless they’re very local such as the Halliwell case). There’s so much pain around real-time ones. That never goes away of course but after years things have settled a little.
 
Think I'm with the crowd here, would never buy a true crime book or even borrow one from a library. However, I did really enjoy most of the '24 Hours in Police Custody' tv documentaries, especially the posh surgeon who claimed his cottage on an English country estate had been plundered of antiques when in actual fact they were all stashed in the family stately home in Ireland. Also the middle aged family man running a multi-million pound heroin racket from an industrial unit on farm in Essex. So essentially I'm not into murder and sexual assaults at all but I am into the stories and locations of quite ordinary people who choose to get involved in crime for monetary gain.
 
I am such a lurker on these boards but must chip in here as my dissertation for my MA in Folklore Studies was about the folkoristics of True Crime. I latched onto this quote from Ann Rule - where she described True Crime stories as "really rude fairytales." I was looking at the building blocks of the stories people are really drawn to and trying to identify the common tropes etc. and I also collected data from people who identified as being interested in True Crime to find out where they heard stories, how they shared them etc. I also threw in a question about their favourite fairytale and found people who like True Crime seemed to also like Red Riding Hood (a criminal tale if ever there was one, the victimology, the stalking, identity theft, murder, retribution etc.) There is a cautionary tale aspect to the sharing of True Crime stories I think, the desire to find out all about it so you can be prepared and avoid a similar fate. And that kind of ties into stories humans have told over the centuries to keep themselves safe, like avoiding water because kelpies live in there - which is more scary than avoiding it cos you might fall in and drown...

Maybe the blurring of lines/crossover comes from the fact that aliens, poltergeists, serial killers, conspiracy theories, werewolves, 'black widow' murderers, fairy abductions, fraudsters, spree killers, vampires, cults, road ghosts, timeslips and even my beloved "Do It For The Devilment" Gef are all at heart really flippin scary stories! I can see people making the link of 'oh you like scary stuff' and lumping it all in together. We all know it's much more nuanced than that!
 
EmFlem said:
I am such a lurker on these boards but must chip in here as my dissertation for my MA in Folklore Studies was about the folkoristics of True Crime. I latched onto this quote from Ann Rule - where she described True Crime stories as "really rude fairytales." I was looking at the building blocks of the stories people are really drawn to and trying to identify the common tropes etc. and I also collected data from people who identified as being interested in True Crime to find out where they heard stories, how they shared them etc. I also threw in a question about their favourite fairytale and found people who like True Crime seemed to also like Red Riding Hood (a criminal tale if ever there was one, the victimology, the stalking, identity theft, murder, retribution etc.) There is a cautionary tale aspect to the sharing of True Crime stories I think, the desire to find out all about it so you can be prepared and avoid a similar fate. And that kind of ties into stories humans have told over the centuries to keep themselves safe, like avoiding water because kelpies live in there - which is more scary than avoiding it cos you might fall in and drown...

Maybe the blurring of lines/crossover comes from the fact that aliens, poltergeists, serial killers, conspiracy theories, werewolves, 'black widow' murderers, fairy abductions, fraudsters, spree killers, vampires, cults, road ghosts, timeslips and even my beloved "Do It For The Devilment" Gef are all at heart really flippin scary stories! I can see people making the link of 'oh you like scary stuff' and lumping it all in together. We all know it's much more nuanced than that!
Click to expand...
Incidentally, hello lurker...! Any Fortean experiences to share @EmFlem...?
 
EmFlem said:
I am such a lurker on these boards but must chip in here as my dissertation for my MA in Folklore Studies was about the folkoristics of True Crime. I latched onto this quote from Ann Rule - where she described True Crime stories as "really rude fairytales." I was looking at the building blocks of the stories people are really drawn to and trying to identify the common tropes etc. and I also collected data from people who identified as being interested in True Crime to find out where they heard stories, how they shared them etc. I also threw in a question about their favourite fairytale and found people who like True Crime seemed to also like Red Riding Hood (a criminal tale if ever there was one, the victimology, the stalking, identity theft, murder, retribution etc.) There is a cautionary tale aspect to the sharing of True Crime stories I think, the desire to find out all about it so you can be prepared and avoid a similar fate. And that kind of ties into stories humans have told over the centuries to keep themselves safe, like avoiding water because kelpies live in there - which is more scary than avoiding it cos you might fall in and drown...

Maybe the blurring of lines/crossover comes from the fact that aliens, poltergeists, serial killers, conspiracy theories, werewolves, 'black widow' murderers, fairy abductions, fraudsters, spree killers, vampires, cults, road ghosts, timeslips and even my beloved "Do It For The Devilment" Gef are all at heart really flippin scary stories! I can see people making the link of 'oh you like scary stuff' and lumping it all in together. We all know it's much more nuanced than that!
Click to expand...
I'll be reading your dissertation!
 
I love me some true crime, especially serial killers. It's the weird but true thing about how anyone could be one and you won't have a clue until they're caught. I've had tea with a murderer - he killed a few weeks later. A friend of mine escaped from Denis Nilsen and was a vital witness at his trial.
 
Save as above. Where true crime crossed into the realm of the Fortean, I'm there.
JTR, Zodiac, Mansion, etc.
Apart from that, not too bothered.
 
Zeke Newbold said:
On a recent visit to London I found myself in one of the famous large bookstores - Foyles I think it might have been. After some looking around, I aked a Sales assistant where the Unexplained section was.

`We don't have one`, he replied. `we don't even have a True Crime section`.

The implication of his words stayed with me. They were that there is some implicit connection between True Crime and the Unexplained.

I have pondered this since and yes, I can kind of see what he meant. The BLAZE TV channel, for example, is composed of half crime and half Mysteries of a more Fortean nature, and presumably it knows its constituency. Then there are peop;le like Colin Wilson. This writer covered a great deal of topics connected with the paranormal but also wrote quite a lot about murder and serial killers in particular (to the point where he even became personally acquainted with some of them).

For myself, I have never taken any real interest in the genre of journalism called `True Crime` and, indeed, have always found something a bit suspect and morbid about those that do. Yes, I'm a mild Sherlock Holmes fan ( along with some other detectives) but that is more because I like the characterisation in these stories as well as the slight fantastical horror element to many of them. I also did follow the Harold Shipman case a bit when it was happening, but that is just because I was intrigued as to what the man's motives might have been. Otherwise I take no interest in reading about criminal activities.

So Fess up: what about you? Are you interested in True Crime and, if so, why - and do you see it as part and parcel of your Fortean interrests, and if so why?
Click to expand...
Yes, I even write about it. But I prefer to stick with historical crimes - 19thc, sometimes before that. Safely in the past feels somehow more ethical. Although I know that's rubbish, really.

My husband asked me why I love true crime so much, isn't it weird/morbid etc? He paints wargames figures and watches endless documentaries about wars where death was mechanised and millions of young men (and civilians) murdered to please politicians - when I pointed that out, he shut up about my penchant for crime.

It's probably related to my love for all things Fortean. I managed to cover folklore and murder in the same book. Also, in the wake of the tragic, horrific Sarah Everard case, wrote a piece for an online newspaper about my near brush with the infamous 1970s' Yorkshire murderer - only found out years later I was on the same street (sometimes alone), same night as one of PS's victims, who survived an attack. Maybe growing up during that time made me more interested in murder. We spent a lot of time looking for obscure murder victims' graves and even tracing the route on foot a local murderer made, in 1841, on the day of the murder, in an attempt to establish an alibi a few miles away... (To see if the route he described was even possible in the time frame. It was).

Maybe the root of this is - Fortean mystery, folklore, or true crime - you're trying to solve something, or explain something that's unsettling - which is comforting. There's also the old chestnut that we need or feel driven, to understand the darkest side of human nature, to then reflect back on and understand ourselves. I don't know if that is self justification for an interest in the morbid, or has an element of truth in it?
 
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I think @Yithian nailed it.

For me it's where the folklore version (or Hollywood) version has taken over from the historical and factual version. This is broader than true crime, looking at the popular perception (building myth) of a character or event but involves the romanticising of certain aspects, pirates and highwaymen spring to mind – but not footpads!

With the Krays and JTR are we looking at the beginning of a myth such as has now evolved around Robin Hood and Hereward the Wake?

The myth of many US outlaws like the Earps, Jesse James, Capone, etc. doesn't match the facts.

Why are certain people the subject of this building mythology and others not? Anyone heard of Llewelyn Morris “Curly” Humphries, the mastermind of the mob after Capone's incarceration?*

What are the factors real or imagined that help create these myths?


* Nor me, until I read “The Outfit” by Gus Russo. Bloomsbury 2001 (USA) 2003 (GB) broadly organised crime in the USA 1930s to 1970s. Those interested in the Kennedy assassination may be interested in Curly's comment. “It wasn't us but they've got the wrong guy.”
 
I'm very interested in true crime especially unsolved crime, which with the advent of technology and forensics are getting very rare nowadays
 
I don't get why some people are so fascinated by true crime, but looking at my new bookshelf I have 3 books on the Moors Murders and one on Fred and Rose West. These books (which I may read one day) were given to me by the author, who was also my work-mate. What was fascinating was a brief insight into the writing process, the research, publishing, Amazon rating etc - but I still don't know why he was so motivated to write on these subjects.
Then I looked at some other books I've bought and realised that I'm a sucker for a good historically accurate gibbetting. Stick the corpse of a bad 'un in a cage and let it swing from a tree or a post and I'll go for a look-see 300 years later to soak up the atmosphere. Even murder has a draw if it happened a long time ago and involved drowning a 'witch' and the pond site is known. Now don't start me on burnings ...
 
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