Human Mutilation Case Photos

[chockfullahate]

someone once suggested to me that cattle mutilations were a result of rats mutilating the body somehow. not satanic rats or anything, just ones eating their way through life. literally.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

So you're suggesting that ETs come all the way across space (and possibly time) from wherever they're based to scare a few people in rural areas? If you want to reduce it all to being a product of an ET's mind, then that really is just a tail-chasing argument - it means you don't really have to explain anything, and thus can simply say it's all to do with the whims of ET imagination.

But you seem to be suggesting that what motivates ETs to do anything must be cookie cutter clones of our own terrestrial motivations.

When we humans think of travelling all the way across the Universe and/or through time, we go "Whew!" and mop our foreheads. But how do we know that alien brows sweat at all?

[All this of course depends on whether aliens actually exist or not.]

 

[Analis]

Jerry_B:
Well, we don't know if they have to cross space or time each time, they may live near us unnoticed. And we don't know how much time it takes them. Why Earth? Maybe because interesting planets are uncommon. But we can't solve the issue of the motives. There were many discussions about non-human behaviour. Relating to cattle mutilation, they may use Earth as their playground, or as weirder options, they may feed on our emotions, they may be satanic creatures viciously trying to hurt us, or for some unknown reason our brains can't understand...
After all, human behavoiur is often sureptious, we can't understand why our fellow humans act this way. Maybe it seems a tail-chasing argument, but nonetheless it might be true. And more than not to have to explain anything, it may be that we can't explain anything... It seems disapointing or discouraging, but we must have this possibility in mind.

 

[Abendstern]

Sorry to turn this discussion back to human motives, but if it were some sort of life form marauding cattle herds around the world.....maybe they're hungry and enjoy the odd bit of cow blood. All of the main internet theories I've read seem to suggest they're experimenting with cow blood because it's somehow similar to our own, but I wonder if they take it back home and sell it [it might even be their equivalent of truffles].

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Jerry_B:
Well, we don't know if they have to cross space or time each time, they may live near us unnoticed. And we don't know how much time it takes them. Why Earth? Maybe because interesting planets are uncommon. But we can't solve the issue of the motives. There were many discussions about non-human behaviour. Relating to cattle mutilation, they may use Earth as their playground, or as weirder options, they may feed on our emotions, they may be satanic creatures viciously trying to hurt us, or for some unknown reason our brains can't understand...
After all, human behavoiur is often sureptious, we can't understand why our fellow humans act this way. Maybe it seems a tail-chasing argument, but nonetheless it might be true. And more than not to have to explain anything, it may be that we can't explain anything... It seems disapointing or discouraging, but we must have this possibility in mind.

Very well said. If aliens regard crossing time and space as we regard crossing from the living room to the bedroom, how can our own experiences relate to that?

Moreover, so recently as 130 years ago our ancestors couldn't conceive of travelling to Australia in less than many months; the idea of doing it in mere hours would have been totally beyond them.

Once again, I'm not actually claiming that aliens exist; that's still up for grabs.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

The trouble is that there seem to be more theories of the "why" of cattle mutilations than....than....well, than there are cows.

 

[Jerry_B]

And - if the mutilations are indeed being carried out by ETs - it seems that we should not bother trying to figure out what they're doing, because we'll never figure it out. Well, that seems to be the general gist of what people are saying here WRT the ET-based theory...

 

[OldTimeRadio]

And - if the mutilations are indeed being carried out by ETs - it seems that we should not bother trying to figure out what they're doing, because we'll never figure it out. Well, that seems to be the general gist of what people are saying here WRT the ET-based theory...

Jerry, I didn't say that we shouldn't try.

If I'm not at least trying, why do I have 22 file drawers and 4500 floppy discs crammed full of Fortean and paranormal materials?

But the entire human race has been trying to understand this stuff for upwards of 4000 years and doesn't seem to have yet passed first base.

As people far brighter than I have pointed out, it's hard to get the answers when we don't even know which questions to ask.

 

[Gitrdone]

The National Geographic Channel had a show on cattle mutilations a few weeks ago, I think it was one of the Is It Real? shows. Basically, they left a dead cow out in a field in the heat of the summer and within a day or two it looked just like the mutilation pics. What happened was insects would enter through the mouth, ears, and other cavities and eat the flesh off the bone. Birds would peck out the eyes. No space aliens visited the corpses unfortunately.

So the corpses are real, but the culprit is quite mundane.

 

[Jerry_B]

That's very interesting Gitrdone. One wonder why no-one has thought of setting up that experiment before.

 

[Jerry_B]

Jerry, I didn't say that we shouldn't try.

As people far brighter than I have pointed out, it's hard to get the answers when we don't even know which questions to ask.

But if all arguments can be boiled down to 'We'll never know, because it's all to do with ET mentalities that we can never imagine', then the whole thing starts chasing it's tail. In fact, that line of argument excludes any further dicussion, because you'll always come up against the 'We'll never know, etc.'.

 

[wembley8]

Moreover, so recently as 130 years ago our ancestors couldn't conceive of travelling to Australia in less than many months; the idea of doing it in mere hours would have been totally beyond them.

I'm sure they could - Jules Verne et al even thought of plausible machinery for doing it. We can easily conceive of aliens able to cross the universe in an eyeblink (though we may have problems with the physics)...but this says nothing about alleged mutilations.

Given the profusion of explanations nearer to home, perhaps those should be looked at more closely before we start invoking angels, demons or extra-terrestrials.

 

[Gitrdone]

That's very interesting Gitrdone. One wonder why no-one has thought of setting up that experiment before.

Dr. Bill Bass is a forensic anthropologist who has a "body farm" outside Knoxville, Tennessee. He puts human bodies out in the yard and studies the various stages of decomposition, his work is used by police departments to try to determine how long a corpse has been dead. It would be interesting to compare the human mutilation photos w/ the corpses in Bass's yard.

The web site for the body farm is here.

 

[Jerry_B]

Thanks Gitrdone - I think I may have seen something on that place on TV, in some sort of documentary on forensics IIRC.

 

[Jerry_B]

Given the profusion of explanations nearer to home, perhaps those should be looked at more closely before we start invoking angels, demons or extra-terrestrials.

I agree - it kind of ties in with what I was saying earlier about how things are perceived as 'anomalous'. It seems that mutilations have been treated as an anomaly from the get-go, without anyone actually looking into enough possible mundane causes by experimentation or otherwise. Thus, because they seem 'odd', anomalies become associated and attached to them, hence tales of UFOs, black helicopters, etc..

 

[IamSundog]

But to be fair - IF the investigations are objective and IF the written accounts are accurate - the "cattle mutilations" are anomalous precisely because cattle ranchers, who deal with dead cows all the time, are mystified. I would have been very interested in seeing that Naitonal Geographic special. But I'm thinking that if dead cows just naturally decompose in this way (under certain conditions, surely) then ranchers would not think twice about it.

Are ranchers actually mystified, or is that just a creation of Linda Moulton-Howe et al?

If they are mystified, could that possibly be due to some sort of hysteria or "cultural contamination" thing? Could the utterly unflappable, down-to-earth blue collar icons of the American heartland be subject to this sort of contagious delusion? Surely the combined wisdom and experience of old hands in the industry would put wild speculation to rest?

Does anyone know the early history of "cattle mutilations" as a "phenomenon"? Did it first emerge in articles in Bovine Times Magazine or was it conjured up and whipped into an "issue" by paranormalists?

 

[Jerry_B]

If they are mystified, could that possibly be due to some sort of hysteria or "cultural contamination" thing? Could the utterly unflappable, down-to-earth blue collar icons of the American heartland be subject to this sort of contagious delusion? Surely the combined wisdom and experience of old hands in the industry would put wild speculation to rest?

There was an initial wave during the '70s with alot of alleged mutilations (for example, see the 1975 entry in my Texas Fortean Timeline). The following year, Texas had a wave of giant bird sightings. It's difficult to pin down how both examples (and other waves of Forteana) are a symptom of a cultural phenomenon, with a source which may be prosaic but perhaps not really understood and/or had the 'anamolous' badge pinned to it. As to whether the 'down-to-earth blue collar icons of the American heartland' were indeed unflappable is open to question too IMHO. Another problem is that for the most - if not the total - part of the research has been done by those with an outlook perhaps skewed towards a certain idea about what is being considered.

 

[Analis]

"Because you'll always come up against the 'We'll never know' etc."
But this is exactely what we should expect it we deal with a non-human intelligence (and it happens often too with human intelligence...). It is unavoidable that in the universe, some things are out of our reach. We try to constrict those phenomena into an arbitrary set of rules, but certainly they don't have to follow them. Those remarks are not intended to prevent discussion. They only point a true limitation to our understanding. I agree that they imply an impossibility to draw any definitive conclusion. And that the old argument "ETs (or whatever else) would not act this way" is not an answer.
"Part of the research has been done by those with an outlook perhaps skewed towards a certain idea about what is being considered."
Yes, it is true on both sides (well, there are more than two sides). But it is difficult to escape the conclusion that there are indeed anomalies.

 

[Jerry_B]

But this is exactely what we should expect it we deal with a non-human intelligence (and it happens often too with human intelligence...). It is unavoidable that in the universe, some things are out of our reach. We try to constrict those phenomena into an arbitrary set of rules, but certainly they don't have to follow them. Those remarks are not intended to prevent discussion. They only point a true limitation to our understanding. I agree that they imply an impossibility to draw any definitive conclusion. And that the old argument "ETs (or whatever else) would not act this way" is not an answer.

So the discussion is still stopped dead if one considers the ET option WRT mutilations. We can never know, if we assume from the outset that the mutilations are due to the actions of ETs. Thus far, the ET association is an assumption for which we still have no proof.

 

[IamSundog]

As to whether the 'down-to-earth blue collar icons of the American heartland' were indeed unflappable is open to question too IMHO.

Yeah, I was being a little facetious - there's just this image of cattle ranchers as being like Jack Palance in City Slickers, and people being in the industry all their lives and passing knowledge down generations of families. Which is probably mythic and quite wrong.

It seems to me I've read articles - on the NIDS site?? - where county livestock agents and veterenarians are profess bafflement over the state of the cow carcasses too. Maybe I expect too much from people's experience, abilities, and discernment - maybe its really true that most people don't know very much about their jobs or supposed area of expertise. Maybe fighter pilots really do scramble jets after weather balloons and Venus.

 

[OldTimeRadio]

Basically, they left a dead cow out in a field in the heat of the summer and within a day or two it looked just like the mutilation pics.

I guess I'm just dense, but this doesn't seem to explain the cases in which the "mutilations" take place:

1. During cool or even downright freezing weather;

2. Within a hour or two (at most) since the animal was last seen alive, NOT "days."

Moreover, the NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC tests began with dead cows, quite possibly a little gamey before they were ever stuck out in the field. Regular "mutilation" cases seem to start with live, healthy ones!

 

[FrKadash]

I was just watching an episode of Richard D Hall's Richplanet TV which featured the 1994 Brazilian human mutilation case and thought this old thread deserved to be bumped. Here's the episode of Richplanet, it's an update episode about his earlier (2014) documentary film, UFOS AND NATO - The Human Mutilation Cover Up, please don't view if you are sensitive or squeamish the pictures are quite graphic!

Also here's a reddit thread about the case, https://www.reddit.com/r/UnsolvedMurders/comments/3kbac8/guarapiranga_mutilation_1994_são_paulo_brazil/

And here's the full 2014 film,

 

[JamesWhitehead]

Eek another coincidence!

I was thinking of this very thread today, when I was pondering the question of whether I was ghoulish or not.

I remembered starting this thread and came to the conclusion that - probably - I was. :cry:

 

[oldrover]

I don't think there's any mystery here.

The body was found on a in the Guarapiranga reservoir

Which is fed by the Guarapiranga River. Now, in the rivers and waterways in that area is the Cetopsis candiru. Not the famous candiru, but a relative. Which;

is also a deadly parasite known throughout Brazil. It has circular mouth filled with sharp teeth to bite through the flesh of bigger prey, leaving a wound that looks similar to that of a bullet hole. The Candiru Asu then proceeds to eats the prey from the inside out. Once a few of these Candirus have entered the body, chances of survival are extremely low since these fishes greatly damage internal organs. Human corpses have been discovered in the Amazon River filled with about 100 of these parasites inside. Scientists have concluded that the victims might have been alive or incapacitated when they were attacked.

http://weirdandcoolanimals.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/candiru-catfish.html

Admittedly, that link isn't exactly 'Nature', but there's not too much available on-line about this pretty obscure S American catfish. And it's still a lot more plausible than aliens. Also, the only distribution map I've been able to find doesn't show them as being recorded from that exact location.

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/catfish/cetopsidae/candiru.htm

Again though, there seems to be hardly anything on this species available. But, how unlikely is it that a species with a wide distribution in the general area could have made it's way into the Guarapiranga river, and from there into the reservoir?

So, the body appears to have been found in the water, in an area where it wouldn't be too surprising to find a species which is known to inflict exactly the types of injuries described to the body. The wounds also look like they could have been inflicted by other types of scavengers, birds for example, but it's hard to see how they could have removed the deep internal organs.

However, the damage to his face does seem to be consistent with classic scavenging behaviour.

As for the supposed burn marks, have they been verified? Or, is the blackening seen explainable by other means? Has anyone qualified to pass judgement, and their conclusions published and read by anyone equally well suited to explain them?

The article also mentions, 'vasovagal stimulation', about which it says, 'implying cardio-respiratory arrest caused by extreme pain'. And, 'cerebral oedema', adding, 'In a case like this, the presence of cerebral edema without direct traumatic origin is a strong characteristic of an agonizing death'.

Bollocks! Firstly, neither are inconsistent with drowning, and in an article suggesting that man had his entrails sucked out and half his face torn off, alive, it's hard to see why they can also refer to a lack of traumatic cause.

As speculative as this all is, it's a damn sight more likely than aliens.

 

[Jim]

I don't think there's any mystery here.

The body was found on a in the Guarapiranga reservoir

Which is fed by the Guarapiranga River. Now, in the rivers and waterways in that area is the Cetopsis candiru. Not the famous candiru, but a relative. Which;

is also a deadly parasite known throughout Brazil. It has circular mouth filled with sharp teeth to bite through the flesh of bigger prey, leaving a wound that looks similar to that of a bullet hole. The Candiru Asu then proceeds to eats the prey from the inside out. Once a few of these Candirus have entered the body, chances of survival are extremely low since these fishes greatly damage internal organs. Human corpses have been discovered in the Amazon River filled with about 100 of these parasites inside. Scientists have concluded that the victims might have been alive or incapacitated when they were attacked.

http://weirdandcoolanimals.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/candiru-catfish.html

Admittedly, that link isn't exactly 'Nature', but there's not too much available on-line about this pretty obscure S American catfish. And it's still a lot more plausible than aliens. Also, the only distribution map I've been able to find doesn't show them as being recorded from that exact location.

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/catfish/cetopsidae/candiru.htm

Again though, there seems to be hardly anything on this species available. But, how unlikely is it that a species with a wide distribution in the general area could have made it's way into the Guarapiranga river, and from there into the reservoir?

So, the body appears to have been found in the water, in an area where it wouldn't be too surprising to find a species which is known to inflict exactly the types of injuries described to the body. The wounds also look like they could have been inflicted by other types of scavengers, birds for example, but it's hard to see how they could have removed the deep internal organs.

However, the damage to his face does seem to be consistent with classic scavenging behaviour.

As for the supposed burn marks, have they been verified? Or, is the blackening seen explainable by other means? Has anyone qualified to pass judgement, and their conclusions published and read by anyone equally well suited to explain them?

The article also mentions, 'vasovagal stimulation', about which it says, 'implying cardio-respiratory arrest caused by extreme pain'. And, 'cerebral oedema', adding, 'In a case like this, the presence of cerebral edema without direct traumatic origin is a strong characteristic of an agonizing death'.

Bollocks! Firstly, neither are inconsistent with drowning, and in an article suggesting that man had his entrails sucked out and half his face torn off, alive, it's hard to see why they can also refer to a lack of traumatic cause.

As speculative as this all is, it's a damn sight more likely than aliens.

What an awful little beasty!!!

 

[oldrover]

What an awful little beasty!!!

It's an utter swine Jim.

 

[Mythopoeika]

Richard D Hall - interesting talk about animal and human mutilation cases:

Some of this is new to me.

 

[kamalktk]

Richard D Hall - interesting talk about animal and human mutilation cases:

Some of this is new to me.

Already removed by user unfortunately.

 

[Mythopoeika]

WTF! Must be a copyright violation.

 

[Min Bannister]

Is it this one, on his website? I think it was already posted on the previous page.
http://www.richplanet.net/starship_main.php?ref=24&part=1

Warning, if it is the one I am thinking of - the pictures of the mutilated 17 year old girl can never be unseen.