Implications Of Cryptid Discovery

[oldrover]

Wouldn't it have to be fairly specialised poaching? Another subject I don't know enough about but I get the impression that most poaching involves valuable body parts either as a material like ivory or for medicinal purposes like rhino horns or pangolin bits with an established illegal market.

I'm sure there are those who would pay for a Mngwa skin rug or a fur coat made of Yeti hair but they can't show it off they would have to be the sort with a Renoir in their own private gallery that only they and a few cronies would be able to look at.

Wouldn't any poacher who shot a Nandi Bear make more out of making the body public than trying to sell it? I'm sure some sort of "I was out hunting rabbits and it came right at me". probably wouldn't be believed but would make a convenient get out.

Whilst the end product might be, the process poaching is very unlikely to be specialised, it's much more probable that it would involve indiscriminate snaring than a targeted pursuit. Also, I think its very unlikely that many of the kinds of cryptids reported wouldn't have those same properties attributed to them.

Your second paragraph raises a point which I think your third paragraph answers.

 

[Druk]

Whilst the end product might be, the process poaching is very unlikely to be specialised, it's much more probable that it would involve indiscriminate snaring than a targeted pursuit. Also, I think its very unlikely that many of the kinds of cryptids reported wouldn't have those same properties attributed to them.

Your second paragraph raises a point which I think your third paragraph answers.

Poaching with snares is indiscriminate,but some skilled hunters do target specific species like snow leopard and tiger.

 

[oldrover]

Poaching with snares is indiscriminate,but some skilled hunters do target specific species like snow leopard and tiger.

Possible, but given the demand I find it more likely that the majority of animals are not poached by skilled hunters.

 

[Druk]

Possible, but given the demand I find it more likely that the majority of animals are not poached by skilled hunters.

I have met a number of poachers,I remember seeing snow leopard skins in Kashgar market on sale,the poachers I have met were skilled locals who knew the ways of local wildlife,I was offered a Philippine eagle skinned out and salted years ago on Mindanao by a bloke who hunted,trapped and fished to feed his family.

 

[oldrover]

I have met a number of poachers,I remember seeing snow leopard skins in Kashgar market on sale,the poachers I have met were skilled locals who knew the ways of local wildlife,I was offered a Philippine eagle skinned out and salted years ago on Mindanao by a bloke who hunted,trapped and fished to feed his family.

I'm not convinced. Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt that you saw what you say you did. But you said it yourself,

I was offered a Philippine eagle skinned out and salted years ago on Mindanao by a bloke who hunted,trapped and fished to feed his family

This guy is a generalist hunter, however skilled, he's not spending large amounts of time targeting high value species he's hunting and fishing and taking advantage of a high value species when it comes his way. It's probably much more accurate to include him as an example of general subsistence hunting. Bear in mind I only have the details you provided to form that opinion.

The ZSL estimate that "over 100" tigers are poached annually, whilst other sources put that at 150. Given the distribution of those kills it's not enough to sustain that trade if they were targeted by specialists. They're being killed opportunistically.

 

[Tunn11]

Is poaching that open (Snow Leopard skins in a market) everywhere? Or that organised that the poachers would know the value of a rarity and who would pay most for it.

Would an unknown caught in a trap be sold or would it be more likely to be discarded?

I guess it is different in different areas but I wonder how many potentially interesting specimens are lost to idiot collectors or just dumped. I wonder whether the Coelacanth would still be unknown if Courtney-Latimer hadn't spotted it in a market.

Maybe the best way to find any cryptids is to do what the old zoo collectors used to do and pay locals for unusual specimens.

 

[oldrover]

Would an unknown caught in a trap be sold or would it be more likely to be discarded?

Let me give you an example. I can't give names or locations but recently, a TV 'personality' claimed to have been contacted by a reliable source to be told that locals had recovered the body of an animal. For reasons I won't go into the source was contacted. They said that the yes this was true, the locals hadn't recognised it for what it was, and that yes, if x,000 amount of money was forthcoming they'd be willing to take someone to see it. Trouble was, they couldn't contact the people who had the body because they lived in an inaccessible village, with no phone contact, no phones for miles, can only get there by plane, etc. As I say, no locations but this place is touted as the archetypal remote location. We traced the village, and yes it is remote, it is in a very inaccessible part of the country, but they do have a bakery with an email address and an online menu. We never heard back after that. Believe me they'd know.

 

[Druk]

I'm not convinced. Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt that you saw what you say you did. But you said it yourself,


This guy is a generalist hunter, however skilled, he's not spending large amounts of time targeting high value species he's hunting and fishing and taking advantage of a high value species when it comes his way. It's probably much more accurate to include him as an example of general subsistence hunting. Bear in mind I only have the details you provided to form that opinion.

The ZSL estimate that "over 100" tigers are poached annually, whilst other sources put that at 150. Given the distribution of those kills it's not enough to sustain that trade if they were targeted by specialists. They're being killed opportunistically.

Without a doubt he was subsistence,but just saying the poachers I have met in a number of countries knew their terrain and the species they shared it with intimately,Tiger/snow leopard poachers are specialised to my mind due to the foot-snares and the size of the leg hold traps set,you don’t set them for sheep or deer,they target bigger stronger species from experience and talking to people.

 

[Druk]

Is poaching that open (Snow Leopard skins in a market) everywhere? Or that organised that the poachers would know the value of a rarity and who would pay most for it.

Kashgar market as it used to be doesn’t exist any more sadly,it’s a sanitised version nowadays,like Chatuchak where you used to be able to buy tiger cubs.

 

[Druk]

Let me give you an example. I can't give names or locations but recently, a TV 'personality' claimed to have been contacted by a reliable source to be told that locals had recovered the body of an animal. For reasons I won't go into the source was contacted. They said that the yes this was true, the locals hadn't recognised it for what it was, and that yes, if x,000 amount of money was forthcoming they'd be willing to take someone to see it. Trouble was, they couldn't contact the people who had the body because they lived in an inaccessible village, with no phone contact, no phones for miles, can only get there by plane, etc. As I say, no locations but this place is touted as the archetypal remote location. We traced the village, and yes it is remote, it is in a very inaccessible part of the country, but they do have a bakery with an email address and an online menu. We never heard back after that. Believe me they'd know.

PNG?FG?TT?

 

[oldrover]

PNG?FG?TT?

Y. Though I do have to stress that FG had no involvement with any of the inquiries made above.

 

[oldrover]

Without a doubt he was subsistence,but just saying the poachers I have met in a number of countries knew their terrain and the species they shared it with intimately,Tiger/snow leopard poachers are specialised to my mind due to the foot-snares and the size of the leg hold traps set,you don’t set them for sheep or deer,they target bigger stronger species from experience and talking to people.

Agreed, snare type is a significant factor.

 

[Druk]

Agreed, snare type is a significant factor.

I was actually looking at the spring foot snares they use for black bear here the other week.That’s one of the few Asian countries I never visited when I lived in Asia for a number of years,looks wild,I had a friend who lived in PM who was held up twice at gunpoint and machete when he went into the boonies.

 

[Druk]

I think belisle footsnares as used for mountain lion would be perfect for non-lethal snow leopard capture,but locals used whatever was available.
Black bear foot snare.