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Is an intellectual elite deliberately undermining society?

J

Justin_Anstey

Gone But Not Forgotten
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/religion/moralmaze.shtml

A while back on BBC Radio 4's 'Moral Maze' -I forget what the subject was- they had a guy on who asserted two or three times that there is an intellectual elite deliberately undermining society. He didn't mention who, how and why, as far as I can remember.

To have been there this chap, who- and whatever he was, must have had some kind of credibility.

Any thoughts?
 
Can't see why an "Intellectual Elite" would want to undermine society. The people I blame for undermining society are those who think that "Big Brother"/"Survivor"/add your panacea here are worthwhile programs. The people that create these sorts of shows are destroying British culture, and those that watch them are not much better. What is almost as bad is the intellectual chauvanism that the likes of BBC4 and Artsworld try to press on us. My definition of "Intellectual Elite" would be those who try to take high culture to the masses. There are very few left who are willing to try, but there are still some. Those who are undermining society are the Cultural Isolationists, and the TV and Radio executives who would broadcast a live execution for 2 pence on the share price.

Have to go take my Prozac now :)
 
I hope to god there is an intellectual elite trying to do something with all the slack jawed idiots I see around me.
 
The man sounds like he works for the Daily Mail (ptah!) in some capacity. That lot always try to make out that any opposition to their odious take on 'traditional values' must be caused by some nebulous intellectual/left-wing fifth column working to undermine the civilization that once painted the globe pink, by Gad!
 
Adrian Veidt said:
And i thought we were friends beaky :(
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No the eejits of which I speak are mostly in real life. One or two have infiltrated the board though. :(
 
Why on earth would an intellectual elite deliberately try to undermine society? It wouldn't be in their interests to do so, surely?
 
You may well think that. I, of course, couldn't possibly comment.
 
I always figured that the general public were undermining society, seeing as how they are it's foundations and they are thoroughly rotten. The intellectual elite are society's last hope for survival.
 
I've got a horrible feeling that we ARE the intellectual elite. Doesn't bode well. :(
 
Oh, I don't know, Beak, we do pretty well . . . apart from the odd troll or two (and even our resident one is knowlegeable on cryptozoology)

Carole, who is amazed that she has managed to spell two long words while under the influence of alcohol
 
When I was at Uni we were told that we were the elite and it is us that will be running the place. I knew then that there was no hope.:D
 
Re: Is an intellectual elite deliberately undermining societ

Yes.

It's me.

And, since I'm still broke, it's obviously not working.

;)
 
If there is, my number's 9692825, and I'm home during the evening. :D
 
To quote Max Headroom (now THERE is an authority!)
"You can fool some of the people some of the time...
but if you don't teach them to read, you can
fool them whenever you like!"

Isn't controlling the "ignorant masses" exactly how
the ruling parties operated in times past?
I'm sure there are those who want to stick to
"tried and true" methods, but I truly don't believe it
is possible in this generation.

If they are biding their time, however...

TVgeek
 
Personally, I'm with Inverurie. Everything I see points to it being the ignorant masses (mainly the ones attired in sportwear) who are undermining society, and then -as usual- blaming someone else.
 
Everything I see points to it being the ignorant masses (mainly the ones attired in sportwear) who are undermining society,
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You only have to look at the press (tabloid and broadsheet), and the TV, to realise that a great deal of time, effort, money and resources, is expended on keeping them that way. There must be a reason.

Read the `Sun,' and then realise that most of those staff journalists are very smart, well educated, have good degrees and qualifications. Quite likely, from good universities too.

Intellectual elite? Yes.
 
I've never quite believed in the concept of the intelletual elite, although it goes as far back as Plato and The Republic and probably further. How do we define what an intellectual, is no matter an elite? Most 'knowledge' is useless (I would know, I'm a mine of trivia) and those who have economic, military and political power often have more to gain from rivalry than co-operation.

The flip side of the idea of an intellectual elite is that there is such a thing as the ignorant masses. I don't believe that most people are ignorant (how did we build a technologically advanced democracy if we were?) and for anyone that is there's a great cure readily available; the national education system.

As for the orginal post, regarding an intellectual elite undermining society, I wonder if the person on the radio meant a liberal elite, or maybe something class based, Eton, Cambridge, that sort of thing. I suspect that most people who rant against supposed elite groups do so because really they want to belong to them.

For anyone who likes that sort of hierarchical, rigid, inert society might I suggest the Gor Forum? The chap who wrote the books was a university professor, you know.
 
Zygon said:
Personally, I'm with Inverurie. Everything I see points to it being the ignorant masses (mainly the ones attired in sportwear) who are undermining society, and then -as usual- blaming someone else.
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But as Orwell teaches you, hope lies in the proles.
All this 'ignorant masses' stuff smacks of 1930's elitist bullshit/eugencis to me. Most people who read the Sun are quite capable of disecting its semotic meanings, while remaining immune to them. It is second nature to nearly all humans
Read Baudrillard, and then you will realise that the only viable political stratgey for the so-called silent majority is in hyperconformity - subverting society through a honourable process of stubbon refusal to act in traditional political rebellion. Ignore the politicans and they will go away.
Anyway it is a stupid question. Society is what humans create, so as long as there is humans, society will remain.
You can undermine a culture or civilization but not a society.
 
I have always believed that if there is a greater power that is unseen by our eyes then it must be an incredibly tolerant and liberal elite. If I am being monitored or I am subject to a great intellectual process then their mere absence in my life tells me that they are fairly democratic when it comes to the petty crime that they must witness every day. If people are being monitored, where is the repercussions. What I mean is, if there are records
and equipment set up to watch over me and I continue living my life the way I do, what will these records or technology be used for.

If the Governments or the "intellectual elite" are watching me
smoke a joint or phreak a phone (y'know, not pay the bill) or if they see my neighbour beat up his wife or kids, then they are wasting their time if they are not coming down on such behavior.

If they are watching, they are not doing anything about it.
If they are not going to do anything about it, why are they watching?

If they are watching me right now while I smoke a pipe....puff...puff.....pufff....puff....puff.

Will they do anything about it? No!

Because they are not there. If they are there......they dont mind!

Cool! Toke on!
 
Wastrel said:
....Eton, Cambridge, that sort of thing. I suspect that most people who rant against supposed elite groups do so because really they want to belong to them.

For anyone who likes that sort of hierarchical, rigid, inert society might I suggest the Gor Forum? The chap who wrote the books was a university professor, you know.
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That forum is something else! I could just picture it being performed by Fry and Laurie in "Critic" mode.

Both of whom went to Cambridge, of course....

Intellectual elite? There are quite a lot of intellectuals in influential positions, but these aren't necessarily positions of power. Influence implies the ability to bring someone round to your point of view, which is not the same as dictating what decisions they make.

Few politicians are true intellectuals: those that are have a tendency to speak their minds as opposed to towing party lines (eg Tony Benn) and therefore by default end up on the fringes.

As for the media, the BBC's intellectuals have all been bundled off to BBC4 (watched by 11 people and someone who's remote has broken) whilst BBC1 actually commissions series like "The House that Jack Built".

To me, the beeb is rapidly becoming lowest common denominator TV, and the only quality stuff they make is that which they can flog abroad, ie costume drama and animals. So in this respect I guess you could argue that we are at the mercy of those who wish us to watch, and not question.

Personally I watch less and less of the two big terrestrial channels over here, and more of the smaller ones, which tend to take more risks, and say what they think. I like that.

Stu
 
Oh I dunno - BBC2 still has some good stuff. But I do get the impression that Beeb One now shows stuff that Channel 5 would think twice about ;)
 
Off Topic
I've just had a quick look at some of the `GOR' forum. I read a couple of the books decades ago.

My first thought was, perhaps we're doing something wrong. My second was to reach for my `Glasgow comb.' The etiquette of `deflowering rituals' for slave dancing girls indeed!
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On Topic?
As for the media, the BBC's intellectuals have all been bundled off to BBC4 (watched by 11 people and someone who's remote has broken) whilst BBC1 actually commissions series like "The House that Jack Built".
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It is in the very nature of the new `populism' to veil the `intellectual elite' in a smoke screen of giving the public the illusion of giving it what it wants.

Luckily, or unluckily, the i.e. have no real idea what the public wants, only contempt. Hence, focus groups, Tony Blair, Jim Davidson and Big Brother.
 
I admit I am one of the pea brained great unwashed prol yobbo's. Who is or what is GOR? They never mention it on 'Home And Away'.
 
The Fireclown said:
I admit I am one of the pea brained great unwashed prol yobbo's. Who is or what is GOR? They never mention it on 'Home And Away'.
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If I'm correct, the GOR novels are/were a series of misogynistic S and M 'fantasy' novels routinely drooled over by 13 yr old boys :rolleyes:
 
Ah. So it's not to do with that TV programme about a guy who's half human, half gorilla? It all makes a bit more sense now...
 
It has also spawned two unbearably bad films

Gor

and

Outlaw of Gor

which showed precisely us where the careers of Jack Palance, Oliver Reed and Arnold Vosloo were at that point in time. Coincidentally if you plotted that portion of their careers on a graph it would resemble the U-bend of a toilet. Which about sums up the films. :blah:

I have watched one of them and would only put them slightly above the dire Rollerblade Seven which is unwatchable. No one will believe me when I say how dreadfull a film that was and then blame me when they make the mistake of watching it.
 
Who is or what is GOR? They never mention it on 'Home And Away'.
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Think, Robert E. Howard's Conan the Barbarian. Take out all the visceral, two fisted, splendour. Now, up the S&M content, and fear and hatred of women (allegedly).
 
chatsubo said:
But as Orwell teaches you, hope lies in the proles.
All this 'ignorant masses' stuff smacks of 1930's elitist bullshit/eugencis to me. Most people who read the Sun are quite capable of disecting its semotic meanings, while remaining immune to them. .
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I bloody well hope so. I used to read the cartoons until they got rid of most of them in favour of that Striker crap. Surely noone reads it to find out about things? The innacuracies in most of their reporrts (especially relating to the armed forces) is appalling though their fear of anyone who doesn't wear a shellsuit is quite amusing. If these people have degrees, then such things are clearly little more than bits of paper, and I'm obviously wasting both my time and money at university.
 
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