Is It Swine Flu Or Pneumonic Plague?

[Bloodbeard]

Something is happening in Ukraine and our news providers offer little coverage. Russia Today reported earlier in the week about what has been described as a pandemic of pneumonic plague in western Ukraine. Reports of up to 200,000 infections and sixty deaths. There are ongoing elections in the country which may be deferred but the situation is far from clear.

 

[Dingo667]

Interesting, more detail here:

http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/20 ... than-h1n1/


* Speculation is still mounting as to what this Ukraine killer virus is. We should know when the DNA signatures are released. But so far no news from the authorities yet. This is definitely a bio-engineered weapon! PreventDiseas.com reports:

There is a very organized and structured system among us to coordinate the release of a weaponized flu with the goal of killing people at unprecedented rates. The pneumonic plague now being witnessed in the Ukraine may be just the beginning of this global effort.

SARS, Avian Flu, and Swine flu appear to have been just trials for deadlier killers such as the current pneumonic plague which is likely another weaponized strain similar to H1N1. Perhaps the pneumonic plague itself is another trial for something more lethal.

There are many questions that have yet to be addressed. How did this virus spread so quickly? Why are the actual numbers not being reported? What has changed in the H1N1 virus to cause this plague or is it a completely new virus? Who is benefiting from the hype or reality of the situation?

The statistics being reported by the Ukrainian government are very misleading. The reported cases have doubled in two days. According to the latest updates, there are 478,456 Influenza/ARI cases, 24,003 have been hospitalized, 60 on ventilators and 81 deaths, although the actual figures may be exponentially higher.

With the so-called Mexican Swine Flu, we saw the gross ineffectiveness of national governments and the World Health Organization in preventing the spread of A/H1N1, which is a mild virus. This new lab produced virus is a certainly a killer and we can likely expect it to spread throughout the world in the next few weeks or months. The mainstream media seems to be collectively timing the release of this information for some opportune moment.
…….
The pneumonic plague has an acute course than other forms, over and is accompanied by a very high mortality rate. The incubation period of primary pneumonic plague rarely exceeds more than 1-4 days. It begins, as a rule, suddenly – with shivering, fever, headache, myalgia, weakness, nausea. The symptoms of pneumonia – cough with phlegm, chest pain, shortness of breath – usually appear on the second day of the disease. Blood spitting, growing respiratory disorders, heart failure, respiratory failure, shock are being observed. In primary pneumonic plague phlegm usually is watery or mucinous, foamy, with blood or visibly bloody.It can be caused in two ways: primary, which results from the inhalation of aerosolised plague bacteria, or secondary, when septicemic plague spreads into lung tissue from the bloodstream. Pneumonic plague is not exclusively vector-borne like bubonic plague; instead it can be spread from person to person. There have been cases of pneumonic plague resulting from the dissection or handling of contaminated animal tissue. This is one type of the formerly known Black Plague. It could kill 90%–100% of a population if the victims coughed and passed on the bacteria.

A secondary pneumonic plague occurs as interstitial pneumonia. Phlegm is scanty and more dense and viscous than in primary pulmonary plague. It is believed that in this regard, patients are less contagious.

The explosion of cases again raises concerns that the number of fatalities is significantly higher than the 81 listed. Media reports have described an equal number of pneumonia fatalities which were not considered flu related. The basis of these exclusions remains unclear. Similarly, anecdotal reports suggest the number of fatalities is markedly higher than the 81 in the government tables.

The rapid rise in reported infections, hospitalizations, and deaths in the past few days raise concerns that the virus is transmitting very efficiently. Spikes in cases have been reported throughout the northern hemisphere, but the spike in fatalities and the frequency in hemorrhagic cases in Ukraine have raised concerns.

Ministry of Health has not established the exact diagnosis of the epidemic disease in the western regions of Ukraine. Health Minister Vasyl Knyazevich has given information about spread of diseases in the Ternopil, Ivano-Frankivsk and Lviv Regions today at the meeting of Cabinet of Ministers.

Answering question of Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko about the definition of the specific nature of the disease, the head of the Ministry of Health said: “The nature of infections is viral one. But at the moment it is not defined, is it the Californian influenza H1N1, or it is our seasonal influenza. To date, there is no precise diagnosis.”

Reports from a few days ago indicated that Ukraine has shut down its schools, universities and cinemas, and banned public gatherings including concerts, movies etc. for the foreseeable future. They have also mobilized military with quarantine units. There is currently a national tightening of borders around the country.

We could be seeing something of monumental importance happening in the Ukraine. An advanced biological genetically engineered killer virus has been released. Some infectious disease experts are asserting that this virus is not A/H1N1 although it may or may not have some of “Swine Flu” genetic material in it.

It is typically behaving like a hemorrhagic fever in the lungs turning them into ‘mush’ and killing the patient. Some reports from the Ukraine are indicating that figures may will be over 1000 deaths, but the numbers are not being released by the government until confirmations are made. Moreover, the virus could have the potential to recombine with those being vaccinated to create a plague that could potentially kill more than 1 million people globally per month.

* See also:

Ukraine Deputy Minister of Health: Swine flu May Have Mutated! Pneumonic Plague?
Pneumonic Plague Drill Held in Illinois !
Reported Mystery Flu Cases in Ukraine Rise To 871,037 Infected – 39,603 Hospitalized and 135 Dead! Martial Law and Mandatory Vaccination?
WHO Continues To Deceive: Assumes That Ukraine Plague Is H1N1 Swine Flu?
Flu Epidemic Claims 109 Lives in Ukraine!
Death Toll Still Rising in Ukraine’s Flu Outbreak ! 95 Dead & 633,877 Infected. Flu Fears Spread From Ukraine To Afghanistan !
Ukraine Flu Outbreak Worries EU Neighbors!
Spanish Doctor on Engineered Viruses And Depopulation!
Reported Cases in Ukraine Double in Two Days!
Ukraine Mystery Flu Update 5 November 2009
Ukraine Flu Death Toll Rises to 81! Over 478,000 Infected and About 18,000 Will Need Intensive Care!
Ukraine Hemorrhagic Pneumonia Deaths! Belarus H1N1 Deaths Raise Concerns!
Minister Says Ukraine Flu Epidemic To Create Emergency in Hungary!
2nd Generation Killer-Flu Tested in the Ukraine ?
WHO Targets Hemorrhagic H1N1 Cases in Lviv Ukraine! Has it Spread to Belarus?
Panic in Ukraine Over Mystery Flu!
Ukraine Mystery Flu OutBreak!
Has Baxter International Released a Biological Weapon in Ukraine?
Ukraine: What Deadly Virus is Gripping the Nation? Pneumonic Plague? Typhus ? Ebola?

 

[Vardoger]

And what's up with this mystic mossad agent/professor/whoever who is accussed of threatening Obama, while the conspiracy theorists says he got arrested for warning against the flu vaccine which has been sold in Ukraine, produced by Baxter BioPharma Inc.

Interesting story developing...

Joseph Moshe (MOSSAD Microbiologist): “Swine flu vaccine is bioweapon”

 

[Spookdaddy]

Interesting...

Well, I might have thought so too, if alarm bells hadn't started ringing at the numerous references to the Illuminati, the Satanic Ruling Cabal, sheeple (I assume that's a reference to people like me) etc, on that blog - or the fact that many of the stories contained therein don't actually back-up the inflated claims inferred in their link titles.

For example, a random hit - WHO Admits to Releasing Pandemic Virus into Population via 'Mock-Up' Vaccines, where we are told -

The document on the WHO website linked below states that it is common procedure to release pandemic viruses into the population in order to get a jump ahead of the real pandemic, so as to fast track the vaccine for when it is needed.

Does it really? Where exactly? Or maybe actually it doesn't. Seems to me that there is no indication that these advance studies actually involve releasing the virus into the general population, as the blog author appears to admit when they state that -

it is very possible to release the novel influenza virus into the population

which is a very different kettle of fish to the outright fabrication contained in the title.

The author of this blog seems to be fond of quoting the Bible. I'd suggest they take a quick look at John 8:44

When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


(Edit: Incidentally, the Dr Mercola referred to in this story doesn't much like established medicine and it's regulatory bodies. Fair enough. But when that attitude is paired with the fact that the same individual makes millions out of selling their own products to fill the alleged gap, then I'm afraid this particular sheep gets a tad suspicious.)

 

[Felicity]

Bloody Norah!

What is the general consensus? Should we be worried! I am always a bit concerned when vaccines are produced for a virus that could be genetically engineered- from my old days of genetics- silent genes??????? Have they unravelled the whole sequence for these viruses?

Felicity

 

[Spookdaddy]

Ukraine is holding presidential elections in January and dealing with the Flu has become a politicised matter. In this situation it is in the interests of whoever does 'deal' with it succesfully to infer that they were dealing with a bigger problem than actually existed. Also the fact that Ukraine has banned public meetings and restricted travel prior to elections might be taken to indicate that there is a conspiracy, but maybe that it's field of operations is more localised than the one being suggested.

I'd suggest before anyone panics they read around the issue a bit, rather than relying on the contradictory and self-serving information supplied in these fear-pimping blogs.

 

[Dingo667]

Yes, I do actually agree about the blog but TBH, I just googled and that was one of the longer, more detailed ones.
So, I don't actually believe that this is necessarily some sort of conspiracy brewing but I still find it interesting that there is yet another pandemic starting.
It is almost as if nature is [anthropomorphism coming up] trying really hard to get rid of the human race.
Comparing this to football, when there are many kicks "on target", a goal is usually imminent.
So, being on nature's side [like always], I'd say "keep trying".

 

[Pietro_Mercurios]

Ukraine is holding presidential elections in January and dealing with the Flu has become a politicised matter. In this situation it is in the interests of whoever does 'deal' with it succesfully to infer that they were dealing with a bigger problem than actually existed. Also the fact that Ukraine has banned public meetings and restricted travel prior to elections might be taken to indicate that there is a conspiracy, but maybe that it's field of operations is more localised than the one being suggested.

I'd suggest before anyone panics they read around the issue a bit, rather than relying on the contradictory and self-serving information supplied in these fear-pimping blogs.

Hear! Hear!

Drumming up a panic, through the Media, by exaggerating a threat, then using the general atmosphere of fear to curtail freedoms and manipulate the situation in the ruling Government's favour, seems to be quite the fashion, these days.

 

[HappyBunny]

Public health professional here.

It doesn't have to be pneumonic plague, but it could be. There was an outbreak of pneumonic plague in China in August. Tens of thousands of people were quarantined with at least 11 deaths.

Look at it this way. It could be septicemic plague, and then you're a goner. You'll be dead before you can even get to the hospital. If I wanted to kill of large segments of the population, that's the way I'd go. That and smallpox.

It could also be any form of hantavirus. My first question is this: has the rodent population exploded lately?

Plague in all three forms will always be with us for as long as there are rats and fleas. Even in the US we get roughly 15 cases a year.

This is not a conspiracy to kill everyone. Swine flu has been around for 35 years, and it's not a big deal. This is a mild disease--I have already had it and I can say that from my own experience.

There is NO evidence that swine flu is genetically engineered. All the evidence points to the scenario that swine flu was originally a HUMAN virus that infected swine. Human, swine, and avian genes reassorted (combined), and the result was swine flu, which doesn't bother the pigs at all.

 

[Felicity]

Hi Happy Bunny,

Thanks for the words to inspire calmness and confidence- but it only lasted until I remembered the P2 training day I went to here in South Australia, where they were finally emphasising the important of some sort of security, and an article in the Guardian- and these are in countries that are supposed to have the highest standards-

The King's Cross project will focus attention on the safety record of category 4 labs sanctioned to work on human pathogens by the HSE, such as the military Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down and the National Institute for Biological Standards and Control in Potters Bar, Hertfordshire, as well as labs licensed by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) to handle animal pathogens, such as the H5N1 avian flu virus. These include the Institute of Animal Research at Pirbright, the Veterinary Laboratories Agency in Surrey, and the NIMR at Mill Hill.

The last time a breach involving a human pathogen occurred on the scale of the animal disease breach at Pirbright was in the 1970s, when two laboratory workers died after becoming infected with smallpox at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. But a Guardian analysis of the HSE's enforcement history has found over 70 dangerous incidents in labs and breaches of health and safety regulations aimed at controlling dangerous pathogens over the past 10 years, including the potential exposure of lab workers and others to a deadly form of pneumonia, and poor safety measures in work being carried out on a category 4 pathogen.

Over the past 10 years, the HSE has brought five separate prosecutions for severe failings in safety measures at universities, research institutes and labs attached to hospitals. Imperial College London was prosecuted twice in 1998 and fined a total of £45,000. In one case, Imperial failed to seal a laboratory to allow it to be disinfected safely, and in the other incident Imperial failed to implement appropriate containment measures for work on a genetically modified virus. Since then, it has been issued with an improvement notice in 2003 for faulty disposal of genetically modified micro-organisms.

The University of Edinburgh was prosecuted for failing to undertake risk assessments and establish a genetic modification safety committee, and fined £3,500. The University of Birmingham was prosecuted for failing to ensure its air filtration and ventilation systems were up to scratch, and fined £10,000.

The HSE has also instigated three crown censures in the past 10 years, which allow it to act against government establishments that are immune from prosecution under health and safety law, such as Porton Down and the Central Science Laboratory in York. In the past five years, the HSE has issued at least 17 improvement notices and six prohibition notices for laboratory breaches of regulations governing the control of substances hazardous to health, genetically modified micro-organisms and health and safety. In addition, 42 investigations into reports of injuries, diseases and dangerous occurrences in labs have taken place since 2004. Many of these are minor accidents, such as spilling bottles containing the bacterium that causes tuberculosis in cattle. Others cases are more serious. At one unidentified institution, researchers were potentially exposed to avian flu in two separate incidents in 2006 due to needle stick injuries.

Accidents do happen

"Accidents happen. It doesn't matter if you are driving a car or working in a lab, one day something will happen," says Dr Ellen Nisbet, a malaria researcher at Cambridge University. "We are extremely well trained in what to do. If we were not you would probably see a lot more accidents.

"But if an accident does happen, it could be catastrophic. You just have to make sure it does not happen or locate the lab in an area where it is not so catastrophic if it does happen."

Professor Steve Smith, principal of Imperial College's medical faculty, says there is a general recognition that the UK needs more category 4 labs. "The question is, do you put them in the middle of nowhere or where the researchers are? If the labs are in an isolated field site, you lose proximity to the researchers and this gives a narrow view. But it is a very difficult question: how secure is secure?"

Professor Alan Malcolm, chief executive of the Institute of Biology, says if the proper safeguards are in place, locating a category 4 laboratory in central London ought to be as safe as anywhere.



It reminds me of a friend's statement who was in defense when discussing biological weapons- 'Yes it is disgusting that these weapons are used- we have chemical weapons where people are dead before they hit the ground.'

Some comfort! And a conversation stopper at dinner!

Felicity

 

[KarlD]

Bloody Norah!

What is the general consensus? Should we be worried! I am always a bit concerned when vaccines are produced for a virus that could be genetically engineered- from my old days of genetics- silent genes??????? Have they unravelled the whole sequence for these viruses?

Felicity

Its erm.....bullshit.

 

[Pietro_Mercurios]

Bloody Norah!

What is the general consensus? Should we be worried! I am always a bit concerned when vaccines are produced for a virus that could be genetically engineered- from my old days of genetics- silent genes??????? Have they unravelled the whole sequence for these viruses?

Felicity

Its erm.....bullshit.

Why?

References, quotes, links, etc. Some sort of proof to back up your statement, please. Otherwise, what you might consider frank bluntness and candour, just looks dangerously like flaming.

P_M

 

[HappyBunny]

Hi Happy Bunny,

Thanks for the words to inspire calmness and confidence- but it only lasted until I remembered the P2 training day I went to here in South Australia, where they were finally emphasising the important of some sort of security, and an article in the Guardian- and these are in countries that are supposed to have the highest standards-

The King's Cross project will focus attention on the safety record of category 4 labs sanctioned to work on human pathogens by the HSE, such as the military Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down and the National Institute for Biological Standards and Control in Potters Bar, Hertfordshire, as well as labs licensed by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) to handle animal pathogens, such as the H5N1 avian flu virus. These include the Institute of Animal Research at Pirbright, the Veterinary Laboratories Agency in Surrey, and the NIMR at Mill Hill.

The last time a breach involving a human pathogen occurred on the scale of the animal disease breach at Pirbright was in the 1970s, when two laboratory workers died after becoming infected with smallpox at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. But a Guardian analysis of the HSE's enforcement history has found over 70 dangerous incidents in labs and breaches of health and safety regulations aimed at controlling dangerous pathogens over the past 10 years, including the potential exposure of lab workers and others to a deadly form of pneumonia, and poor safety measures in work being carried out on a category 4 pathogen.

Over the past 10 years, the HSE has brought five separate prosecutions for severe failings in safety measures at universities, research institutes and labs attached to hospitals. Imperial College London was prosecuted twice in 1998 and fined a total of £45,000. In one case, Imperial failed to seal a laboratory to allow it to be disinfected safely, and in the other incident Imperial failed to implement appropriate containment measures for work on a genetically modified virus. Since then, it has been issued with an improvement notice in 2003 for faulty disposal of genetically modified micro-organisms.

The University of Edinburgh was prosecuted for failing to undertake risk assessments and establish a genetic modification safety committee, and fined £3,500. The University of Birmingham was prosecuted for failing to ensure its air filtration and ventilation systems were up to scratch, and fined £10,000.

The HSE has also instigated three crown censures in the past 10 years, which allow it to act against government establishments that are immune from prosecution under health and safety law, such as Porton Down and the Central Science Laboratory in York. In the past five years, the HSE has issued at least 17 improvement notices and six prohibition notices for laboratory breaches of regulations governing the control of substances hazardous to health, genetically modified micro-organisms and health and safety. In addition, 42 investigations into reports of injuries, diseases and dangerous occurrences in labs have taken place since 2004. Many of these are minor accidents, such as spilling bottles containing the bacterium that causes tuberculosis in cattle. Others cases are more serious. At one unidentified institution, researchers were potentially exposed to avian flu in two separate incidents in 2006 due to needle stick injuries.

Accidents do happen

"Accidents happen. It doesn't matter if you are driving a car or working in a lab, one day something will happen," says Dr Ellen Nisbet, a malaria researcher at Cambridge University. "We are extremely well trained in what to do. If we were not you would probably see a lot more accidents.

"But if an accident does happen, it could be catastrophic. You just have to make sure it does not happen or locate the lab in an area where it is not so catastrophic if it does happen."

Professor Steve Smith, principal of Imperial College's medical faculty, says there is a general recognition that the UK needs more category 4 labs. "The question is, do you put them in the middle of nowhere or where the researchers are? If the labs are in an isolated field site, you lose proximity to the researchers and this gives a narrow view. But it is a very difficult question: how secure is secure?"

Professor Alan Malcolm, chief executive of the Institute of Biology, says if the proper safeguards are in place, locating a category 4 laboratory in central London ought to be as safe as anywhere.



It reminds me of a friend's statement who was in defense when discussing biological weapons- 'Yes it is disgusting that these weapons are used- we have chemical weapons where people are dead before they hit the ground.'

Some comfort! And a conversation stopper at dinner!

Felicity

I try to get people to stay calm. On this side of the pond people a lot of people are really panicked, no thanks to the media which has blown this way out of proportion. It's insanity.

Anyway, that's a good article, and to be honest I'm not in the least bit surprised that there have been security breaches. Earlier in the spring, a lab in the Czech Republic (? I think) leaked a supposed vaccine contained a reassortment of a non-swine flu strain of H1N1 mixed with H5N1--avian flu. Now THAT could have been a very bad thing. Right now the only way to get avian flu is to come into contact with an infected bird. (There have been a handful of cases of person-to-person transmission, but they were all in very isolated groups of people.) The only way to get it to infect people is to reassort it with a strain that readily infects people. And that's what they were working on.

Rumor has it that the US Army created a "superstrain" of smallpox that is 100% lethal. That was 20 or so years ago. If I'm not mistaken smallpox is still a Cat 4 biohazard even though you have immunity if you were born before 1970, and there are only two places in the world that are allowed to handle it: CDC in Atlanta and the State Research Center of Virology and Biotechnology VECTOR in Russia. You can handle smallpox at Level 2 if and only if you've been vaccinated.

On the other hand, swine flu like all Influenza A strains are no more than Biosafety Level 2. Not level 4, which includes your lovely hemorrhagic fevers like Lassa, Ebola, Marburg, Bolivian hemorrhagic fever, Argentine hemorrhagic fever, etc.

H1N1 is pretty tame in comparison!

Bacteria and viruses as bioweapons are nothing new. Does anyone remember the Frank Herbert novel "The White Plague"? The good is that no one has been able to weaponize them on an ICBM or anything. They can't make it work. Thank God.

 

[Privateer]

I was recently in a conversation with several people who were utterly convinced that 'swine flu' is part of a plot to kill off 85% of the world's population.
Now, to me it makes more sense (if it were a conspiracy of some sort) if it's part of a plot to rip off most of the population.
Think about it: release a disease that spreads like wildfire but isn't actually that dangerous; it kills just enough people to make the rest panic. Then you show up and say 'Hey, we have loads of antiviral drugs and vaccine, want to buy some?'.

If there were a conspiracy, I'd say it would be more along those lines, rather than evil Space Lizards trying to kill us all.

 

[HappyBunny]

I was recently in a conversation with several people who were utterly convinced that 'swine flu' is part of a plot to kill off 85% of the world's population.
Now, to me it makes more sense (if it were a conspiracy of some sort) if it's part of a plot to rip off most of the population.
Think about it: release a disease that spreads like wildfire but isn't actually that dangerous; it kills just enough people to make the rest panic. Then you show up and say 'Hey, we have loads of antiviral drugs and vaccine, want to buy some?'.

If there were a conspiracy, I'd say it would be more along those lines, rather than evil Space Lizards trying to kill us all.

Well, considering that normal flu kills half a million worldwide every year, H1N1 just isn't measuring up to the doom and gloom scenario.

 

[jubecrew]

Ukraine is holding presidential elections in January and dealing with the Flu has become a politicised matter. In this situation it is in the interests of whoever does 'deal' with it succesfully to infer that they were dealing with a bigger problem than actually existed. Also the fact that Ukraine has banned public meetings and restricted travel prior to elections might be taken to indicate that there is a conspiracy, but maybe that it's field of operations is more localised than the one being suggested.

I'd suggest before anyone panics they read around the issue a bit, rather than relying on the contradictory and self-serving information supplied in these fear-pimping blogs.

Hear! Hear!

Drumming up a panic, through the Media, by exaggerating a threat, then using the general atmosphere of fear to curtail freedoms and manipulate the situation in the ruling Government's favour, seems to be quite the fashion, these days.

very well put ! I look at it this way, you die when you die, from what and when aren't important, live every day likes its your last so when it does happen your not using your last moments on earth to think about what you haven't done or accomplished.

maybe people aren't supposed to live beyond their life line, save some room for the rest of us