Jack The Ripper (Compendium Thread)

What do you think is the most likely ?

  • The Ripper was a Freemason?

    Votes: 6 10.0%
  • The Ripper had medical knowledge?

    Votes: 8 13.3%
  • It was Maybrick?

    Votes: 4 6.7%
  • The Ripper was 'of the same class' as his victims?

    Votes: 7 11.7%
  • The Ripper was foreign?

    Votes: 2 3.3%
  • It was Druitt?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • None of the suspects yet put forward?

    Votes: 15 25.0%
  • It was a woman?

    Votes: 2 3.3%
  • Another?

    Votes: 16 26.7%

  • Total voters
    60

Ascalon

Abominable Snowman
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
792
Reading Hallie Rubinhold's The Five.

Very much enjoying it. It is the depth of research and context to which we have been treated for suspects for years, and yet rarely for the victims.

Will do a proper opinion when finished, but it is the first book in many years the reminds of the rigour and absolute lack of hysteria that characterised the great Philip Sugden.
 

Ascalon

Abominable Snowman
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
792
My fuller review of The Five:

Hallie Rubenhold’s The Five is probably the most important book in the field of Ripperology in recent years.

Rather than some further, near pointless, final solution, it gives up sensationalism for hard graft and scholarly work.

It presents the canonical five women for the first time ever in the level of detail that was reserved previously for suspects.

It is reminiscent of the methodical, thoughtful and meticulous work of Philip Sugden, and sets a new standard for empathetic, but never sentimental, historical detective work.

Rubenhold manages at once to provide a deep context and historical placement for each of the women, and then weaves the complex fabric of society around each, with their differing backgrounds and series of developments that brought them to Whitechapel, and ultimately to their utterly undeserved ends.

The author does not go into details about their deaths, only to document their lives in vivid detail, right up to their final moments where possible, and it is here that some true insights for the field come about.

Rubenhold comprehensively illustrates how the police forces of London at the time were overwhelmingly biased against the poor and destitute women of the East End, to the point where each one found homeless or drunk was immediately assumed to be at least a casual, if not fully professional, prostitute.

This was such an issue that a legal case was brought and won by a woman, prompting the Met Police Chief Sir Charles Warren to issue instruction on the matter. This was in 1887. Suffice to say, Rubehold makes a fairly watertight case for police bias in the field.

Secondly, she comprehensively proves that for both Annie Chapman and Catherine Eddowes, there is no evidence at all to support, and indeed much more to refute, the notion that they engaged in even casual soliciting. And there, for me, is the major impact from her work for the field.

Eyewitness testimony has always been an issue in the Ripper case. However, the best sightings have generally been believed to be that of Annie Chapman on the street in front of 29 Hanbury Street, and Catherin Eddowes in the passage leading to Mitre Square. Both seemed to suggest soliciting on the part of the two women, which was assumed to be a john who may or may not have been JTR in both cases.

In fact, the Eddowes sighting is the basis for the entire JTR in the asylum theory, complete with later eyewitness identification.

However, Rubenhold, in both cases, blows the idea out of the water — neither woman was given to casual soliciting. Therefore, we must question whether it was Annie who was stood with her back to the wall as a stranger said “Will you?”

Similarly, was it really Catherine Eddowes that Joseph Lawende saw by Church Passage, with her hand playfully on the chest of a fair complexioned man?

Lawende only identified Eddowes by the clothes she wore, post mortem.

If, as Rubenhold’s work now sets out, neither Annie nor Catherine were given to soliciting, then it must be assumed that JTR managed to get them to the respective secluded places to carry out his crimes.

It is now very reasonable to argue that both Annie and Catherine may have been sleeping rough and were not the women seen by either Elizabeth Long, or Joseph Lawende. Were their two murders just JTR’s opportunistic luck? Did he, in fact, throttle them on the ground, and then use the knife?

Rubenhold’s work is solid enough to reassess these two cases in particular, and re-examine their circumstances beyond the traditional narrative of soliciting the wrong man.

The Five brings vividly to life the stories of these women, who were mothers, daughters, sisters and wives. They lived in harsh times and suffered even harsher conditions before their awful, utterly undeserved deaths. But each one too once had happy times and joys, though short lived. This book reminds us that behind the grisly fascination with the murderer, are real people murdered, and real families left behind. That in itself is enough to make this a great book. But to take the study of this case a significant step further in terms of our overall understanding, is an outstanding achievement.
 

Spookdaddy

Cuckoo
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
7,111
Location
Midwich
Will do a proper opinion when finished, but it is the first book in many years the reminds of the rigour and absolute lack of hysteria that characterised the great Philip Sugden.

That's probably recommendation enough in itself. But thanks for the thoughtful, clear and well-written review - I wish mine were as fine examples of waffle-free clarity. Maybe next time I want to recommend I book I'll just get you to read it first!
 

OrsonSwells

Devoted Cultist
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
208
Location
Manchester
I watched this today and the name was bugging me. I was sure the ‘victim’ was a Ripper suspect and he was but it wasn’t mentioned at all.

Murder, Mystery and My Family, Series 4: 1. Maybrick: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000l9y0
How odd. He was the Ripper who wrote a diary! If it was him, the date of his death certainly explains why there were no further victims.
 

JamesWhitehead

Piffle Prospector
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
13,877
The Ripper Diary, attributed to James Maybrick was a publishing sensation of 1993, swiftly to be followed by fallings-out among the perpetrators.

Once-upon-a-time, I got drawn into the saga and was in contact with Shirley Harrison, who promoted the diary; also with two descendants of the Maybrick clan.

The Maybrick pot was stirred again in 2015 by Bruce "Withnail" Robinson, who made his own case for Maybrick's brother, Michael - aka composer Stephen Adams - being Jack-the-Ripper!

What remains with me is that some fundamentalist Christians got hold of my tongue-in-cheek study of the sorry saga and cited me as an authority, supporting the banishment of Stephen Adams' devilish musical works from their services! And this was before Mr Robinson pointed the finger at brother Michael! :doh:
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Messages
6,422
I am currently re-reading "the five" by Hallie Rubenhold, fascinating but heartbreaking, it had a mediocre review in the magazine but I would highly recommend it.

Can someone tell me which issue of FT reviewed the book? I recall the review being negative but nothing beyond that, I've looked at the issues around time of publication - April 2019 and can't find it. Googled the author's name which lead me here.
 

titch

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
3,443
Can someone tell me which issue of FT reviewed the book? I recall the review being negative but nothing beyond that, I've looked at the issues around time of publication - April 2019 and can't find it. Googled the author's name which lead me here.
Sorry I cannot help, I read the review before the book arrived and when I had read the book I wondered if the reviewer had read the same book as I had, for example the reviewer states all the women where prostitutes, the author says that only women who had been convicted of prostitution could be called prositutes.

By the guidelines of the Metropolitan police only two of the victims could be considered prositutes and the reviewer seemed to continuing the age old discrimination of poor women, they are poor women so they MUST be prositutes, the author shows how the victims had other ways of earning a little bit of money, but they would always be paid less for their work then men because... well they're had breasts.

I would highly recommend the book, I used to scoff at international women's day but after reading the book I can see why it is needed. By the end of it I had become a radical feminist, ready to castrate left right and center.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2012
Messages
6,422
Sorry I cannot help, I read the review before the book arrived and when I had read the book I wondered if the reviewer had read the same book as I had, for example the reviewer states all the women where prostitutes, the author says that only women who had been convicted of prostitution could be called prositutes.

By the guidelines of the Metropolitan police only two of the victims could be considered prositutes and the reviewer seemed to continuing the age old discrimination of poor women, they are poor women so they MUST be prositutes, the author shows how the victims had other ways of earning a little bit of money, but they would always be paid less for their work then men because... well they're had breasts.

I would highly recommend the book, I used to scoff at international women's day but after reading the book I can see why it is needed. By the end of it I had become a radical feminist, ready to castrate left right and center.

Thanks for your reply Titch, I've located the review - FT381 July 2019, page 61.

The reviewer, Paul Begg is a Ripper researcher, I'll refrain from calling him a Ripperologist as I'm not certain that it's not pejorative; takes issue with what he sees as the author omitting or misrepresenting the facts, or so the review says. I am a layman on JTR so don't have anything like the knowledge to concur with or refute this. He says she states that they weren't prostitutes when there is apparently ample evidence that they were. He also dislikes her only referring to the women up to the last "confirmed" sighting and feels looking at later, presumably "unconfirmed" sightings would have been fruitful. He acknowledges it does a good job of acquainting the reader with the everyday horrors of poverty in late Victorian Britain, though somewhat dismissively states that it "reads like a novel".

I'll give it a miss, as there's quite enough everyday horror going about at the moment. I was curious to reread the review as a friend had mentioned she had recently read it and I could recall it being two stars but couldn't remember why.
 

Yithian

Parish Watch
Staff member
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
34,190
Location
East of Suez
East End pub has large Jack the Ripper mural painted on it (by a female artist). Neighbours – quite rightly in my opinion – take umbrage...

https://www.theguardian.com/artandd...ral-eastenders-hit-back-zabou-snipper-chipper

Points:

a) I can see why locals might not like it. I find the case fascinating and I'm not local, but I don't like it.
Jack the Ripper was a real killer who killed real people--brutally. And a neighbourhood that people call home is not a theme park.

b) By depicting the bowler hat in such good condition, the artist is implying some wealth and middle class.

c) I'm no expert at spotting ethnicities by facial characteristics, but is this Jack supposed to look Jewish?
 

cycleboy2

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
2,607
Points:

a) I can see why locals might not like it. I find the case fascinating and I'm not local, but I don't like it.
Jack the Ripper was a real killer who killed real people--brutally. And a neighbourhood that people call home is not a theme park.

b) By depicting the bowler hat in such good condition, the artist is implying some wealth and middle class.

c) I'm no expert at spotting ethnicities by facial characteristics, but is this Jack supposed to look Jewish?
I'm glad you mentioned the Jewish angle – I'd thought the same but wasn't sure it was just me for the same reasons you mention. I certainly think for that and other reasons that the paint-over, especially the way it was done, is the right response.

I think there is a difference between being fascinated by the case – I can remember the fictional TV detectives Barlow and Watt in the early 70s (I was 10!) trying to find who Jack the Ripper was* – and the potential glorification of it. Would a mural of Harold Shipman be acceptable? No. The Yorkshire Ripper? Ditto. It's only the passage of time that made this mural, to some at least, acceptable.

* https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0071001/
 

Yithian

Parish Watch
Staff member
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
34,190
Location
East of Suez
A Jewish Bob Mortimer is what the person nearest to me has just opined over my shoulder.

Screenshot 2020-10-02 at 16.50.39.png
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
10,444
Jack the Ripper was a real killer who killed real people--brutally.

iu


Banksy, Portobello Road, London

"...it is estimated that several hundred people were executed nationwide during this time, with Guevara's jurisdictional death total at La Cabaña ranging from 55 to 105.

All sides acknowledge that Guevara had become a "hardened" man who had no qualms about the death penalty or about summary and collective trials. If the only way to "defend the revolution was to execute its enemies, he would not be swayed by humanitarian or political arguments". "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Cabaña#Executions

maximus otter
 

Yithian

Parish Watch
Staff member
Joined
Oct 29, 2002
Messages
34,190
Location
East of Suez
iu


Banksy, Portobello Road, London

"...it is estimated that several hundred people were executed nationwide during this time, with Guevara's jurisdictional death total at La Cabaña ranging from 55 to 105.

All sides acknowledge that Guevara had become a "hardened" man who had no qualms about the death penalty or about summary and collective trials. If the only way to "defend the revolution was to execute its enemies, he would not be swayed by humanitarian or political arguments". "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Cabaña#Executions

maximus otter

Take a day off.

Serial killers and revolutionaries are not comparable. That's not to say one is 'better' than the other, but simply that they are not readily comparable. Bomber Harris killed more than both of them combined, and we have statues of him. Again, soldiers are not comparable to either of the groups above. God Almighty wiped out most of the world with a deluge, but he gets a fairly good press in many quarters.

Geographic and temporal distance are also key to why the picture you have posted is less offensive. If you displayed it in Little Havana, Miami, you'd likely have a riot on your hands.

Did you have anything to add about this mural of Jack the Ripper?
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
10,444
Did you have anything to add about this mural of Jack the Ripper?

a) I’m not a fan of people defacing other people’s property.

b) That having been said, it seems like a well-done and witty (if that’s the mot juste in the circumstances) piece of work.

c) On a one-to-ten scale of things to get het up about, it’s a lot closer to a one than a ten, IMHO.

d) I’m pretty sure that their killer’s motivation is not the victim’s primary concern in extremis.

maximus otter
 

Dick Turpin

Abominable Snowman
Joined
Mar 28, 2018
Messages
684
My Nephew, took this pic whilst driving past Saturday afternoon.

As you can see, it’s on the corner of Whitechapel road and Osborn street, so at the southern of Brick lane.

Surprised Tower Hamlets council agreed to the name TBH.

From memory this was formally the Archers Tavern..?




IMG_3202.JPG
 

Peripart

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 1, 2005
Messages
6,417
The recent Channel 4 documentary about the history of Broadmoor secure hospital, made a very strong case for Thomas Cutbush being the ripper.
The Sun (did they have page 3 girls back then?) named him as the most likely suspect in 1894!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hayne_Cutbush

Reading of his wall-jumping antics, he could be a good candidate for Spring-Heeled Jack, as well.

Two Jacks for the price of one!
 

Nosmo King

I'm not a cat
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
7,535
Dick,

Sorry not to reply at the time. I did read your response (and LIKED it), but I was pushed for time.

As to whether Tumblety could have been blood-thirsty and misogynistic enough to meet the psychological profile (I accept the problems with the physical profile that you raise), I'd like an answer to the question, "Did he actually have a collection of women's uteruses?" (as has been alleged).

A claim often made to back up Tumblety's possible involvement in the Jack the Ripper Murders is that he is known to have collected medical specimens, including uteri.
But there is scant evidence to suggest that he ever did. The allegation that he did was made by Col. C. S. Dunham to the Williamsport Sunday Grit in which he mentioned being a guest at a dinner at which he had witnessed Tumblety fiercely denounce "...all women and especially fallen women."
Dunham went on to mention that Tumblety had then taken his guests to his office where he showed them a dozen or more jars containing the uteri of every class of women.
[...]
But Dunham’s veracity is, to say the least, questionable. He himself was a known confidence trickster, who only made his claims after press allegations had linked Tumblety to the Whitechapel Murders.
It is, therefore, highly possible, if not likely, that he made the story up in order to cash in on Tumblety’s sudden notoriety.
Source:​

Am currently looking at this as a counter-argument:

http://www.searchingfortruthwithabrokenflashlight.com/uploads/Tumblety_and_his_Uterus_Collection.pdf
Having only come upon Tumblety as a figure of interest in the Ripper case i have done a bit of research, unfortunately i cannot find anything regarding your 'counter argument' link which is dead, i did however come across an account which i found of interest regarding Tumblety as a likely suspect, i would be interested in any feedback

https://www.jack-the-ripper-tour.com/generalnews/the-life-and-crimes-of-francis-tumblety/
 

Nosmo King

I'm not a cat
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
7,535
Just an interesting side note, i was watching an episode of 'pawn stars' the other week and a guy came in with a hat box, a silver cartouche on it was engraved with Dr Francis Tumblety, the top hat inside had a small flintlock pistol, with a similar cartouche engraved 'FT' secreted and held with a clip, into the top of the hat.
 
Top