Let's Talk About Alpha

[Anonymous]

let's talk about alpha

let's get pally with God and I'll have a lovely life

No great conclusion to this post. I just wondered if anyone else has had any experience or an opinion of the alpha business?

I've just been watching "Alpha. Will It Change Their Lives?" Currently being repeated on ITV1 (UK). Presented by Sir David Frost - who .. HAas .. HIMs'lf COMpl'ted an alPH-a corrrrrse - and who is a member of the freaky upper class Brompton Trinity church. independent.co.uk (stupidly it costs money to read this article):

The first programme consisted of bright-eyed, smiling converts gazing at the camera and explaining how the Alpha movement had saved them from unhappiness, negative relationships, sin and moral confusion, to a background of gloopy, sentimental music. Introducing this shamefully partial and brainless farrago was none other than Sir David Frost in his smarmiest Through the Keyhole mode.

Now I can't explain exactly why I so detest the Alpha nonsense. independent.co.uk (stupidly it costs money to read this article):

To some, the Alpha course, of which there were five in 1992 and now 18,775 worldwide, is just what the church needs in a day when the Baal of celebrity attracts more followers than Jesus Christ. To others, Alpha is a cult, whose brainwashed followers have been cajoled into embracing an emotional comfort-blanket of unthinking conformity.

My step father's business colleague (Ned Flanders) introduced my mother to it. Now, of course, they're all happy, beautiful, rich, vibrant and wonderful. And a bit weird sometimes. She always did always see the good in things so was particularly open to that kind of niceness.

I'm still trying to get an angle on all this. Anyhow - I've been doing a bit of Googling and here's a few links.

The Alpha Course - Jesus on demand. Join the moral health club. Official website. Franchised by the upper-class pentecostalists who congregate at Holy Trinity Brompton

Catch Me If You Can - The Guardian. By Jon Ronson

Nicky Gumbel is probably the most charismatic figure in the Church of England today. His 10-week courses, intended to turn agnostics into true, speaking-in-tongues believers, have reaped an astounding number of converts. Jon Ronson signed up. Being Jewish, he presented a special challenge. Would he end up with the sheep or the goats?

God's Smiley Knight - The Guardian. By Nick Cohen

Andrew Brown ... warns that to describe Alpha as 'fundamentalist' is to be unfair to fundamentalists. There are many who are bone-headed enough to believe in the truth of sacred texts, but most Christian fundamentalists accept the age of miracles passed with Biblical times and we will not see its like again until the Second Coming ...

The music is dreamy. The focus is soft. The camera glides from an exquisite country church to a delightful garden. A perfect family is enjoying the scents of summer. As the father plays with his children and flowers tremble in a heat haze, his wife murmurs with a sincerity which quells scepticism: 'Alpha has been extremely important to us. It's wonderful. It's very exciting. Being a Christian is very exciting.' You can hear the thrill in Sir David Frost's voice as he narrates the 60-minute film. He leaves the audience in little doubt that he has found a faith everyone should consider adopting if they wish their families to find peace and plenty. 'Alpha does work,' he proclaims. 'We want you at home to sample the Alpha experience.'

Alpha instructors teach that sex before marriage, divorce and abortion are sins. They don't doubt that homosexuals will go to hell (although Gumbel, an 'annihilationist' who believes hell is merely the cessation of existence for those who fail to reach heaven, is in dispute with his more vindictive colleagues who are firm 'eternally conscious torment' men.) ...

NSS Complains To The ITC From the NATIONAL SECULAR SOCIETY - complaining that the David Frost programme is illegal.

Alpha has some very strong critics inside the church. A letter in the current issue of the Church Times, from the Revd Kenneth Wakefield of Launceston, Cornwall, reads:

"Big Brother may be one thing but televised Alpha is something else. The very thought of it makes my stomach churn. Surely it is time for Mr Gumbel to pack his bags and head for life in the real clergy world - let's say eight or ten rural parishes in Norfolk, Cornwall or Exeter. It would be interesting to see if he could find time to run any group, let alone a 'let's get pally with God and I'll have a lovely life' group. (Sorry, 'Alpha Group'). And please, please stop putting this Alpha News rubbish in with my Church Times. I detest it." (Church Times 13 July 2001)

ITV Series Cleared Of Recruiting Christians- telegraph.co.uk

Outrage over Geri's links to anti-abortion, anti-gay group - Sunday Herald.

The former Spice Girl, who last week announced on an American radio show that she is undertaking a programme of religious study organised by the Alpha Course, has provoked outrage amongst many churchmen, women's groups and gay rights activists following her association with the fast- growing Anglican sect ...

 

[Anonymous]

The Sun (November 22) reports today that former Spice Girl drummer Hairy Gelliwell has been attending meetings of a ten-week Christianity retreat called the Alpha Course. Hairy, who used to entertain soldiers but stopped, has been spotted joining in the weekly asking sessions that ask 'Who Is Jesus?'.

"She's transformed," a Christian said. "We all joke about how everyone thinks we're mad happy clappers who don't drink or smoke or swear or have sex or do anything that isn't good (we don't, of course) and Geri joins in. It's a long road for her. Before you can forgive yourself you have to have others forgive you because they are much holier and know the bible and stuff. Geri isn't anywhere near that yet and we are really holy, which is brilliant for us because heaven awaits us, which is brilliant and stuff."

There is a dissenting voice, though, unhappy at Geri's attempted conversion. "I'm not at all convinced," said God. "One minute she's doing the dog rising in the morning with a bendy back drinking soya milk - that's a yoga move, by the way - the next she's asking me for divine intervention. I mean, I might be an omnipotent omnipresent deity - though you want to see what that Allah can do - but how the fuck am I supposed to get her to Number One?. I had to do a bit of serious horse-trading with Zeus and some ancient Greek boys to get that 'It's Raining Men, Hallelujah, Thank Christ' to the top (sorry Mel B). Now she comes crying, asking 'Who Is Jesus?'. I mean, come on girl. There are three-year-olds who can answer that with wit and wisdom. What does she think fucking Christmas is all about? I swear to Jehovah, sometimes I feel like getting a bit Old Testament."

http://www.nme.co.uk/news/51124.htm

 

[Anonymous]

Alpha ...the terrifying new face of Juvenile Delinquancy?

Alpha apparently have some sort of association with a drop-in centre for youngsters about a block from where I live (going by the fact the church is constantly plastered with posters extolling the virtues of the Alpha course, as well as the 'witty' billboard on the corner of the church (too high up for me to vanda -uhr, I mean 'correct'- without obvious use of a stepladder in full view of CCTV. ) that this week says "Where on Earth are you for Heaven's Sake?" Excuse me while I mop up this pool of vomit.).

Now I daresay that none of the kids that use it are sinning with drugs, drink, premarital sex, divorce or abortion, but by crikey they're making up for it with the vandalism and grafitti. That used to be a nice alleyway down the side of the church, and now it's a wasteland of lurid da-glo 'tags' and kicked in gratings, and even the local dogs don't dare perform their ablutions down there now.

And then there's the way the Alpha-kids hang around the corner in gangs after it shuts, glowering at all the clear-eyed, happy-go-lucky atheists as they pass, and demanding of ageing and vulnerable Jakeys "Have you found Him yet?" as they stagger by with their meths tins. Very intimidating. Someone should put a stop to it before it all gets out of hand. :blah:

 

[Anonymous]

Right...where are my lions...?

 

[Anonymous]

i watched a bit of the alpha programe and must say it was very banal. perhaps my atheism is too entrenched but the 'answers' they gave just promted more questions (not the sort of questions that christian folk like to answer) and scepticism from me.
after seeing the people who are enjoying it i think i'd rather be in hell with all the other people who enjoy drugs, sex and rock and roll

 

[Anonymous]

i like the Church of England; particularly the ones that don't believe in anything, like the old Bishop of Durham... that's my kind of religion.
a kind of Zen Christianity.

The philosophy is kind of summed up in the phrase;
'sure and certain hope of the resurrection...'
it is the hope that is certain, not the resurrection, right enough.
yeah- and the Alpha types don't hope, they know.

This could be the downfall of a lovely modern progressive religion.

 

[Anonymous]

nihilism is rock 'n' roll

 

[Anonymous]

after seeing the people who are enjoying it i think i'd rather be in hell with all the other people who enjoy drugs, sex and rock and roll

Ah, Mr. Gillan! There's no laughing in heaven....

 

[Anonymous]

A church a few blocks from where I live (in Austin, Texas) has had a sign up for over a year proclaiming "Alpha is here!". I'd wondered what that was intended to mean, but beyond some disappointment that they didn't go on to collect the other 23 letters, haven't given it any thought in months.

So now I know what it's about, and am a bit intimidated that it's on both sides of the Atlantic.

 

[Anonymous]

Alpha: fundamentalists arn't they?

If there's one thing I hate it's fundamentalists.

Oh yea: and they can cure homosexuality you know :grrr:

 

[Anonymous]

Quote from the Nick Cohen Guardian article in my first post:

Andrew Brown ... warns that to describe Alpha as 'fundamentalist' is to be unfair to fundamentalists. There are many who are bone-headed enough to believe in the truth of sacred texts, but most Christian fundamentalists accept the age of miracles passed with Biblical times and we will not see its like again until the Second Coming

Nick Cohen and Jon Ronson are both smart writers. Almost anything by either of them is likely to be worth reading.

 

[Anonymous]

I read the Jon Ronson article (and if I recall, he did a TV programme too didn't he?) and would have to say that the whole Alpha thing seems rather worrying.

Just down my street, the local scout hut has been turned into a place of worship for Ark International Ministries, who proclaim that they wish to bring back the fear of God into everyone's hearts!!

What is the world coming to?

Is there any hope for the future of mankind?

I mean they have had over 2000 years to sort the world out, and yet the place would have been better off if they had just left it alone!!

According to the Worldwatch Institute, there are around 4.5bn believers of some kind of religion in the world. That leaves only 1.5 bn of us sane people left. No wonder the place is such a mess.

 

[Anonymous]

If there's one thing I hate it's fundamentalists.

Oh yea: and they can cure homosexuality you know

"Now Briggs says homosexuals can't expect to be treated like normal people because they aren't normal Well I say the same thing about Fundamentalists: they can't expect to be treated like reasonable people because they aren't reasonable people, anymore than a mad dog." - William Burroughs

"I have never encountered a righteous Bible-beater who wasn't a thief at heart. When you are doing business with a religious sonofabitch, get it on paper because his word isn't worth shit. Not with the Lord telling him how to fuck you on a deal." - William Burroughs

 

[Anonymous]

...of course you all realise that there is very little contemporary evidence that JC existed (dogmatic history revisionism excluded) and was little more than a pagan godman story brought to life...don't you?

 

[Hospitaller]

...of course you all realise that there is very little contemporary evidence that JC existed (dogmatic history revisionism excluded) and was little more than a pagan godman story brought to life...don't you?

C.S. Lewis wrote of how (whilst still an atheist) he used to sit by the fire reading myths, scriptures and other such literature with his fellow atheist academic colleague. One evening his friend remarked on how the only difference between the Christian myth and the others was that they believed that their god actually was born, was killed and did rise again. Lewis marked this as a turning point in his belief. The pagan godman story brought to life lead him to the C of E!

Was he right or wrong? I won't be so arrogant as to say he was right just because I think he was, as I respect the atheistic beliefs expressed above, and unlike some I do not think that I have discovered the whole truth about matters spiritual.

I know some of you may have read something very similar on another thread, but my fingers are tired and I've nought new to say but this.

For those who hold the point of view that deity exists, texts like the gospels make interesting reading. Those who hold strong beliefs to the contrary will not find anything worthwhile in such writings.

The sad part is when one party makes the first move to try to convince the other of the tenacity of their personal belief by promoting or denouncing such "dogma".
I admire anyone, theist or atheist, who defends themselves against pompous assault on the widely held belief that there is no god, or that god(s) exist.

Such instigators seek only monologue, dialogue being nigh impossible, as both parties are arguing from irreconcilable viewpoints in the first place, and so they will never, ever agree regardless of what can or can't be proven. Often the only fruit is total disrespect and intolerance of one for the other (which is often ironically what both parties accuse each other of, and of which both are guilty!).

Personally I believe in the existence of deity, but that belief does not rely on biblical or other texts. These texts are fascinating to me as they deal with the topic of deity, as also are the Koran, Philo, Plato, the Vedas, Upashanids etc. etc. (How fortunate I am to live near the Chester Beatty Library! :blissed: ) I abhor bible bashing of both extremes (fuming detractors and rabid proselytes alike - I see no difference), rooted as it is in intolerance or arrogant pomposity about the beliefs of another whic happen to be different.
As for the Alpha Course, I have no experience of it, so I can't say whether it's good or bad! It's sad if they amuse themselves by passing bland remarks at atheists just because they believe differently. I suppose its a sign of the times when spirituality is prepackaged in a ten week course - I'm not saying Alpha is crap, I'm not sure of the contents and the running of it, but can it really claim to teach you about life, the universe and everything in ten weeks? Or is it just an introduction to a belief system? If it's didactic and dogmatic and just a denominational recruitment tool then I wonder how many of the recruited will remain in the organisation into which they are inducted. If it's a genuine exploration of matters spiritual without a didactic approach, well what's the harm? (Unless it's pretending to be open and exploratory but has really has a dogmatically set 10-week agenda and goal). At the risk of sounding prejudiced it sounds like the spiritual equivalent of Amway, but I'm probably just being cynical!

Sorry for the near-double post, (across threads) but there's not much more to it than that!

 

[river_styx]

If it smells like a christian, looks like a christian and talks like a christian then it doesn't matter which sect it belongs to.
How can one religion, supposedly the only true path to living your life in happiness have so many differing interpretations?
The answer is IT'S ALL A FREAKIN' LIE! Man made, mass produced and swallowed by gullible cowards who don't want to face the fact that they're the only ones in charge of their lives.
Which is exactly why you get all these segmented churches popping up offering the new style that will work for you.
Faith shouldn't require a retelling for the 21st century if it's relevant, which it was two thousand or more years ago then it applies to life but the words read now are the same words which were read then. And that's all they are, words!

 

[brianellwood]

read "tongues of flame" by Tim Parks, published 1985 and reprinted by vintage 1999. I've nothing else to say on the matter

 

[Anonymous]

I'm afraid that we will never reach a point where everyone is willing to treat others with respect mine Irish kind (it's from Wagner - I couldn't put the acent in.)

It's just that dogmatism is something 'rationalists' suffer from too.

Liked the Burrows quotes alb I used to have a cd with the almost standup routen that the 'religious son of a bitch quote comes from but it got stolen (an on it wasn't a religious person that did it.)

Will Young went to Alpha cources to show how he was such a good, christian, guy. I suopse noone told them about their ideas on homosexuality.

 

[Anonymous]

Most of the Burroughs routines which featured on the various cds, tapes etc are available to download from the web in mp3 format if you do a bit of Googling.

Eg - the 'Nova Convention' recordings are here

 

[Hospitaller]

"I'm afraid that we will never reach a point where everyone is willing to treat others with respect "

Alas! The worse of it is that the disrespectful are the most insistent that they and whatever ontology they've chosen as absolute truth* be treated with respect, and worse, not out of courtesy but because 'it's fkn well right and you're wrong, right!'

*often that absolute truth being, ironically, that there is no absolute truth but the absolute truth that there is no absolute truth!

Tongues of flame is a novel! Unfortunately that puts it low on my reading list. I'm terribly biased in favour of non-fiction. I know I'm probably missing out on a great deal of good literature, but novels so often disappoint (with the exceptions of Umberto Eco, Tolkien and Walter Tevis)! Having said that, when I do write I think it will be ... a novel!

If it smells like a christian

I was going to reply to this post, but first I'd like to be made aware of the supposed scent which emanates from said Christians! Methinks it is as supposed a scent as many of the other suppositions upon which people supposedly suppose that Christian belief is a mere matter of supposition and therefore mere supposition is enough to dismiss it. Having said that I detect a distinct odour from these suppositions, reminds me of a farmyard...

 

[Anonymous]

I was going to reply to this post, but first I'd like to be made aware of the supposed scent which emanates from said Christians! Methinks it is as supposed a scent as many of the other suppositions upon which people supposedly suppose that Christian belief is a mere matter of supposition and therefore mere suppostition is enough to dismiss it. Having said that I detect a distinct odour from these suppositions, reminds me of a farmyard...

Suppositries, perhaps?

 

[Hospitaller]

They could well come in useful! Particularly handy, I believe, for the removal of persons from their own orifices!

 

[Anonymous]

They could well come in useful! Particularly handy, I believe, for the removal of persons from their own orifices!

...and also for plugging the fundaments of Fundamentalists...

 

[Hospitaller]

For fundamentalists, faithful or faithless, are fine once they firm up their fundaments for to foil fremescent flatulence!

 

[Anonymous]

I was going to reply to this post, but first I'd like to be made aware of the supposed scent which emanates from said Christians! Methinks it is as supposed a scent as many of the other suppositions upon which people supposedly suppose that Christian belief is a mere matter of supposition and therefore mere supposition is enough to dismiss it. Having said that I detect a distinct odour from these suppositions, reminds me of a farmyard...

The oder of flowers emenating from the blessed after they die is that the smell?

 

[Hospitaller]

Nah! That's only a select few Roman Catholics, can't be supposed to emanate from all Christians Come to think of it, aren't the pleasantly scented dead featured in other religions too...?

 

[Anonymous]

When my gran claimed something had near frightened her to death, I used to assume she was saying she was 'sent for': might she really have been saying she was 'scent for'??

 

[Anonymous]

Nah! That's only a select few Roman Catholics, can't be supposed to emanate from all Christians Come to think of it, aren't the pleasantly scented dead featured in other religions too...?

the plesently scented should be featured in all religions.

I remember our local priest when I was little:cross eye

 

[Anonymous]

Interesting that one of the keystones of belief of the last 2000 years, when challenged and up for debate should produce such a series of vacuous responses. It's like we don't want to dig any deeper. I didn't want to offend moderators with book source material or cite references from that work but I remain convinced that the whole Christianity thing is a charade.

A similar thing happened this week at work when there was a power cut and all our PCs went down. As much as we hate IT, you have to have faith that when something dies, the knowledge contained therein isn't lost forever and there's someone closer to the source to keep you in touch with the hereafter and maybe even retreive some of it.

Next week, the less challenging subject....Why bananas are really animals.

 

[Anonymous]

I didn't want to offend moderators with book source material or cite references from that work but I remain convinced that the whole Christianity thing is a charade.

Oh, I'm sure the Moderators are only really offended, when you don't offer any quotations, references, or evidence, to back up your arguments!