Let's Talk About Alpha

[Steven]

Even I can resist that.

Ah, but you are not weak, and led into temptation by a priest dragging a Twix tied to a piece of string...

 

[Steven]

Were there cups of tea?

If so - praise the Lord, I have seen the light!

There was tea, coffee, mineral water both still and sparkling, Cola both Diet and containing a million sugars, Tango, Um Bongo, Bingo etcetera. Is it any wonder that I succumbed?!?!?

PS There were also Tunnock's freebies. If there'd been orange Twirls, I would've converted on the spot.

 

[Steven]

Apologies for my endless posts in this thread; it's just that I'm still bothered by that priest's behaviour. I especially disliked, to put it mildly, his dismissal & ignorance of the women amongst us. This only underlined my feeling that women are considered merely secondary in the Church - at 'best' - and are therefore unworthy of listening to. These decent, kind, helpful and sincerely devout people were barely allowed to get a word in; I was disgusted and appalled by his dreadful, conceited behaviour. And even if they'd happened not to be 'decent, kind, helpful and sincerely devout', it would still be disgraceful if they were mistreated like that.

EDIT: Gah. I certainly was, and remain, stirred-up by the priest's boorish/boastful or 'innocently challenging' behaviour...but not at all in the ways he'd surely anticipated.

 

[escargot]

EDIT: Gah. I certainly was, and remain, stirred-up by the priest's boorish/boastful or 'innocently challenging' behaviour...but not at all in the ways he'd surely anticipated.

Own goal there, Father.

 

[Steven]

Own goal there, Father.

He, eventually, said sorry for making what he airily described as 'a misstep'. Yuck.

 

[escargot]

He, eventually, said sorry for making what he airily described as 'a misstep'. Yuck.

He misread his audience, more like. Thought you'd all hang on his every word.

 

[Steven]

He misread his audience, more like. Thought you'd all hang on his every word.

Yeah, you're very likely right. I often misread situations, it's true, and can even become ill after lengthy conversations; so it could conceivably be that I'd never experienced this type of what I'll call 'rough-questioning' and so I was & am shocked by his tactics...tactics that might possibly be run-of-the-mill for old-school Catholic priests, for all I know. However, despite my (many) shortcomings, I really do think his approach was terribly misjudged - it was his manner that so angered and offended us, not his criticisms.

 

[Stormkhan]

EDIT: Gah. I certainly was, and remain, stirred-up by the priest's boorish/boastful or 'innocently challenging' behaviour...but not at all in the ways he'd surely anticipated.

For 'innocently challenging' read 'disappointed that you didn't agree'.

 

[Steven]

For 'innocently challenging' read 'disappointed that you didn't agree'.

If only he hadn't used his own background-story as, apparently, an exemplar. What he evidently viewed as an example for us to learn from actually came across not only as bragging and a claim of personal 'specialness' but also as flawed. His coming from a background of poverty; ruining his married life by his debauchery; eventually - after much wild and selfish living - finding Christ at the bottom of a bottle; none of this speaks to me of a piety we should admire. In truth, it speaks to me of finding faith as a last resort when, ideally, it should've been first if one were genuinely a pious and admirable person. Lowest ebbs and last resorts are the easy route to personal salvation or redemption or whatever; a case of saying "Oh well, I've had my fun and now I've nothing left to lose, so I might as well try this." It's great if someone emerges from a personal crisis and then lives a better life; just don't make out to others that your experiences make you Christ-like and a shining example to follow, and then expect to be taken seriously.

 

[Frideswide]

My dad was a (non-practising) Catholic, and only had praise for those he'd encountered in his life. For example, he was educated by nuns and these were always kind to him. So, when this expectation of mine was added to the user-friendly Alpha atmosphere, and my ridiculous naivety/idiocy, I thought all would be sweetness and light. What a twit.

Not a twit. Mme Snail is exagerating for effect I'm in a separate branch of catholicism (Old not Roman) and all of mine are just what you'd hope.

so I hadn't expected the Spanish Inquisition

It just seemed like an outdated technique*,and not one that's guaranteed to be effective. Whether a person has religious faith or is godless, if they are sincere in their particular beliefs then being harshly questioned is not going to deepen - or destroy - their personal outlook and their inner conviction.

*I'm being generous, for the sake of argument, and here assuming that the priest genuinely was simply challenging us to think, as he claimed.

You are so right. I've no idea if he's misguided, outdated or daft. Inneffective anyway around.

BTW, I should've made it clear that my position on all of this is neither anti-Christian or anti-other faiths. Nor have I intended to criticise those who have no religion. More specifically I found Alpha to be neither the insidious propaganda of raving Charismatic fundamentalists, or a happy-clappy hugfest in which Christianity is packaged and sold as one might sell cheap margarine. It had elements which were good or bad, I found.

Your position is that of a true fortean sir! Here as elsewhere, long standing residents (me included) tend to rehash the same old same old instead of sticking to the subject of the post,

Going into the course in the first place indicates a spiritual searching, otherwise you wouldn't even be there.

I can think of different reasons

 

[SimonBurchell]

I can think of different reasons

Well, there is the free food... company, or, if you're spiteful, other reasons too...

 

[Steven]

I can think of different reasons

The free crisps? :

 

[Frideswide]

I've no idea why any atheists would go on the course. Personally, I'd walk in as an atheist and walk out with my opinions intact.

There are other reasons for going, honest! Come on, be fortean people, don't be so black and white!

But free crisps and chocolate bars were available at every session! I defy anyone to resist such temptations!

lead me in! can you get frequent flyer points?????

 

[Steven]

@Frideswide

Thank you for your responses.

I haven't a clue about the following, and would like to learn more:

I'm in a separate branch of catholicism (Old not Roman

 

[Mythopoeika]

There are other reasons for going, honest! Come on, be fortean people, don't be so black and white!

OK... what would those reasons be?

 

[Cochise]

@Frideswide

Thank you for your responses.

I haven't a clue about the following, and would like to learn more:

I'm in a separate branch of catholicism (Old not Roman

I was curious about that as well.

I wonder why we of the Abrahamic religions are so insistent on there being one way to true faith. Why wouldn't there be multiple paths? God himself has obviously changed his approach over the millennia, if the Bible has any meaning at all. No-one gets turned into pillars of salt any more.

 

[Frideswide]

finding faith as a last resort when, ideally, it should've been first if one were genuinely a pious and admirable person.

no, can't agree with you on this. The corollary is that when you are in your worst place god refuses you succour. Which isn't my experience! Invented god or revealed god, I can't see this working.

The laity treatment-of-women stuff is less than he made it seem IMNSHE. But only-male-ordination is one of the main reasons why I'm an Old Catholic not a Roman Catholic. There are Romans here who can speak to their experience but I'm not going to tag and out them in case.

The free crisps? :

Sign me UP!!!!!!!!!!

and would like to learn more:

I'm in a separate branch of catholicism (Old not Roman

This is the Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Catholic_Church

TLR About 1870ish there was a big gathering of the upper Roman Church hierarchy to discuss and lay down rules for some reform. (First Vatican Council). The direction the Romans went in from that point was untenable by lots of people so they remained behind and carried on with the old ways - hence Old Catholics. It's a bit like the People's Front of Judea and the Judean People's Front from life of Brian? I'm part of the United Reformed Old Catholic which is very traditional in forms of worship, vestments, roles of clergy and laity etc. We also don't do -isms... racism, sexism, classism, ableism etc etc etc. The head of the Church in the UK is a working class woman, I have no idea about her sexuality! Monseignura Sheila Lady Sherwood https://www.linkedin.com/in/reverend-mother-lady-sherwood-opi-26208ab3/?originalSubdomain=uk

We emphasise prayer and a personal relationship with all parts of the trinity which should then flow into daily life and actions. We recognise we screw up and do our best to ameliiorate the effect on others, then get on with life. My worship is at the local Roman churches and I try to get as involved in parish life as mauch as I can - hello autism lolololol

Does that nswer questions? happy to talk of course.

 

[Frideswide]

OK... what would those reasons be?

Off the top of my head? I'm sure there will be more

* professional curiosoty
* peer pressure
* get your kid into school
* boredom
* closure of traditional adult education classes
* to disrupt the meetings
* to have your existing views confirmed (religious)
* to have your existing views confirmed (aethesist)
* personal curiosity - a fortean approach


* FREE CRISPS! GIVE ME MY FREE CRISPS NOW!

 

[Frideswide]

I wonder why we of the Abrahamic religions are so insistent on there being one way to true faith.

historical precedent?

 

[Frideswide]

I'm part of the United Reformed Old Catholic which is very traditional in forms of worship, vestments, roles of clergy and laity etc.

I should add that this is a preference and a way of expressing our love in the act of worship, teaching, and orienting us to the time and place of the liturgical year.

It's not IMPORTANT though. The last time Mother Lady celebrated Mass with me we were in mufti at a corner table in Weatherspoons with some wine-by-the-glass for the purpose and a large jug of something bright blue with loads of fruit for after, instead of tea and scones in the parish hall

Well, she was in something dark with a big pectoral cross and a high vis vest with Priest written on the back having caught the train directly from working with the police at a RTA. But she wasn't in robes, scapula, cope etc etc etc

Like I say, it's not IMPORTANT.

 

[Steven]

no, can't agree with you on this. The corollary is that when you are in your worst place god refuses you succour. Which isn't my experience! Invented god or revealed god, I can't see this working.

Ahhh, I'd not considered that. And I had to look-up 'corollary'.

The laity treatment-of-women stuff is less than he made it seem IMNSHE. But only-male-ordination is one of the main reasons why I'm an Old Catholic not a Roman Catholic. There are Romans here who can speak to their experience but I'm not going to tag and out them in case.

It's dated, ridiculous, and unfair, IMO.

Sign me UP!!!!!!!!!!

Join our Church of (Free) Crisps™!

TLDR About 1870ish there was a big gathering of the upper Roman Church hierarchy to discuss and lay down rules for some reform. (First Vatican Council). The direction the Romans went in from that point was untenable by lots of people so they remained behind and carried on with the old ways - hence Old Catholics. It's a bit like the People's Front of Judea and the Judean People's Front from life of Brian? I'm part of the United Reformed Old Catholic which is very traditional in forms of worship, vestments, roles of clergy and laity etc. We also don't do -isms... racism, sexism, classism, ableism etc etc etc. The head of the Church in the UK is a working class woman, I have no idea about her sexuality! Monseignura Sheila Lady Sherwood https://www.linkedin.com/in/reverend-mother-lady-sherwood-opi-26208ab3/?originalSubdomain=uk

That is the kind of enlightened approach the established Church should take, I think. Excellent, as is the following:

We emphasise prayer and a personal relationship with all parts of the trinity which should then flow into daily life and actions. We recognise we screw up and do our best to ameliiorate the effect on others, then get on with life. My worship is at the local Roman churches and I try to get as involved in parish life as much as I can - hello autism lolololol

 

[escargot]

Mme Snail is exagerating for effect

I most certainly was not.

 

[Frideswide]

I most certainly was not.

hugs? I don't want to fight! I know I'd lose!

 

[Mythopoeika]

Off the top of my head? I'm sure there will be more

* professional curiosoty
* peer pressure
* get your kid into school
* boredom
* closure of traditional adult education classes
* to disrupt the meetings
* to have your existing views confirmed (religious)
* to have your existing views confirmed (aethesist)
* personal curiosity - a fortean approach


* FREE CRISPS! GIVE ME MY FREE CRISPS NOW!

None of those things would drag me out of the comfort of my lounge.
I have crisps in the kitchen and a nice comfy sofa.

 

[SimonBurchell]

None of those things would drag me out of the comfort of my lounge.
I have crisps in the kitchen and a nice comfy sofa.

Maybe, but free crisps taste nicer.

 

[Frideswide]

None of those things would drag me out of the comfort of my lounge.
I have crisps in the kitchen and a nice comfy sofa.

That's you though, and your position (on the sofa with the crisps) is quite clear. Enjoy!

 

[Mythopoeika]

That's you though, and your position (on the sofa with the crisps) is quite clear. Enjoy!

Burp!

 

[Cochise]

historical precedent?

Determination to control the deluded?

 

[Cochise]

That's you though, and your position (on the sofa with the crisps) is quite clear. Enjoy!

I'd much rather imagine Frides on the sofa with the crisps than Mytho.

 

[Frideswide]

Cri

I'd much rather imagine Frides on the sofa with the crisps than Mytho.

crisps are pretty near a perfect food. The crunch and the salt....