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Light Switches In Dreams?

I read a letter in a dream last night. It was from someone I lost touch with a few years ago, asking me politely for help with something.

In the dream I thought, WTF? You've got a nerve! and read and reread the letter carefully. The letter didn't change and it seemed to make perfect sense.
 
I think what you can and can't do in a dream must be as individual as dream imagery - i.e., many people have broadly similar experiences, but one person's experience cannot be generalized in any prescriptive sense. Most people can't read in dreams. I can read in dreams if I try hard enough, but the words keep slipping around. Escargot and Mindalai can read with ease. The common wisdom that you cannot read in dreams is clearly untrue, but it is still true that most people cannot do so. Someday, someone may devise an experiment that can distinguish the qualities that separate dream-readers from non-dream-readers from intermediates like myself, and that may tell us something about the brain we didn't know before.

When I was young, it was common wisdom that only geniuses dreamed in color. Now everybody dreams in color and no one but me seems to have noticed the transition, though I can find you textual evidence of the assumption in published work. (Okay, it's a Trixie Belden mystery, but series fiction is a grand place to locate unexamined cultural assumptions.)

I have labyrinthine house dreams, but they are the opposite of dreadful. I always hate to wake up from them because there's still so much house to explore. Sometimes I find unused space attached to the house I'm living in, sometimes I go back to visit a place I "used to live in" at some indeterminate period, sometimes we just purchased or are considering purchasing the house and are exploring and assigning room uses, and once in awhile I'm doing a straightforward home invasion out of curiosity. I attribute the specific imagery of the house dream to life as an Air Force brat - I've done a lot of moving and I'm always viewing houses with an eye to living in them, even though I've lived in the house I intend to die in for almost 20 years now. The sense of ever-expanding space, surprises around every corner, vast potential, and freedom is indescribably glorious and expresses, in microcosm, that supremely Fortean feeling that I live in an infinite universe. House dreams therefore happen when I'm in a hopeful stage of life, so it's a relief to have one again when I've been going through a bad patch.

A friend of mine, however, has house dreams that are the exact opposite - the rooms get smaller and smaller until he finds himself trapped in a basement, unable to turn around or go forward. I'm not about to discuss other people's personal lives here, but we all have periods in which we feel our lives closing in on us and it's not exactly gossiping to say that it's during those times that he has these dreams. I suspect that Mr. Radio's labyrinth dreams, with their frustration and dread, are connected to his lifelong devotion to tracking subjects through the Fortean hall of mirrors, and reflect the periods of inevitable fed-up-ness that such a pursuit entails. And so on. In dreams as in literature, similar imagery expresses wildly divergent meanings depending on who's using them.

I don't remember ever having to turn on the lights in a house dream, but then I don't actually use them much in real life, either. I prefer natural lighting, and even at night I tend not to turn them on unless I'm going to be reading. Since I seldom pull the blinds, I'd rather feel my way through the familiar rooms than provide passerby-television. In a recent dream in which I discovered a new wing to the current house, including a basement, I did have to turn off a gas space heater on the wall of the stairs leading up to the kitchen It pissed me off, because it had evidently been burning since before we moved in, increasing our utility bill, causing a fire hazard, and unneccessarily heating the kitchen in summer without providing significant benefit in winter.
 
I know what you mean about 'dreaming in color' having become a foreground issue in popular culture. I don't recall when it was (1960's?...), but I do remember there was a period during which the topic of dreaming in color seemed to have a lot of 'currency', along with the sometimes-explicit insinuation that dreaming in anything less than full color was indicative of some visualization or mental shortcoming ...

What's interesting is that it's only been during the last year or so that I've once again started encountering people who claim to dream in any mode other than full-color / live action / 3-D. Only a few months ago a casual acquaintance mentioned always dreaming in grayscale. This mildly jarred me when I realized I hadn't heard anyone claim (admit?...) this in decades.

It's also been within the last few months that someone told me something I don't think I'd ever heard before ... This person claimed his dream imagery was 'not fleshed out' - consisting of (as I understood it ...) 'line drawing - style' renderings encountered in a sort of montage (as opposed to dynamic action) motif that he compared to being immersed in a well-drawn comic book.

I also remember circa 20 years ago someone claiming they almost wholly dreamed in a sort of monocolor 'tint' motif (a la a sepia-tinted black and white film). I've dreamed occasional brief scenes illuminated / colored this way - but always 'in context' (e.g., under conditions of colored light; as a caricatured stylization a la grayscale 'n' grainy to connote the 1950's), and never as the overarching motif for an entire dream.

I agree with you there's probably a lot more personal variability in dream imagery / visualization capabilities than is commonly admitted.
 
While variability makes a fascinating study; I am more interested in similarities. Indeed, it is often fun to make remarks based on Jung (archetypes and so forth), but I wonder as to the cogntive structures that produce such very similar images across cultures.
 
... But which sorts of 'similarities' (if they be ...) might you wish to explain:

- motifs / imagery in general?
- degree of personal control?
- scenarios?
- particular plot-lines / scenes?
- particular objects / characters?

... and how many of these (or other) possible foci may be 'tainted' as objects of study from the start owing to 'waking world' (and personally-embedded) biases and interpretations?....
 
Good points. Must go and have a think - I was initially thinking of laying down some ideas for testing participants while awake e.g. retention of imagery, reading ability, working memory and so forth. And then filter this information against such areas that you suggested - I confess to not making a list like yours (just a few bumbling thoughts). Slowee, slowee catchee dream monkey
 
mindalai said:
Also, I often read in my dreams. I see the words on a page just like in real life and it usually makes at least some sort of sense.

One of my most common dream-motifs is to page through thick scrapbooks crammed full of old news clippings, photograps, letters, documents and so on, most with at least some vaguely Fortean import.
 
I've been thinking a little more on what I wrote the other day - that dreams work more like scenes in stories or motion pictures than "real life."

Thus if we have a novel or a movie in which individuals sit telling ghost stories before a roaring hearthfire, the scene opens with the fire already blazing. We don't see (and we don't need) a detailed description of the logs being dragged into the house or the fire being laid.

The same I should think with light switches. The lights are already on.

Our dream "best boy" has the scene illuminated and awaiting us.
 
OldTimeRadio said:
I've been thinking a little more on what I wrote the other day - that dreams work more like scenes in stories or motion pictures than "real life." ...

I concur with the 'scene is already set' point ... As a first-person actor within a dream I've never encountered the 'opening credits' or the 'initial scene setting' from a third-person vantage. This I've long associated with Heidegger's notion of 'thrownness' - that ponderously elaborated scholarly analogue to the popular saying, "No matter where you go - there you are ..."

As a 1st-person actor I've (e.g.):

- 'entered' scenes in the flow of my 1st-person dream experience

- suddenly found myself 'within' subsequent scenes in the main line scenario (as in a movie's scene transition)

- 'digressed' into scenes triggered as 'background' or 'flashbacks' by something encountered in the 'main line' / 'base line' dream scenario (these being digressions or interruptions in the main line scenario)

- 'recursed' into additional entire 'levels of dream' (as when dreaming I'm asleep and dreaming, then having my 1st-person vantage re-directed into that dreamed dream scenario)

... but I've never recalled seeing a clearly 'opening' scene 'fade up' for the base line / main line dream scenario itself.

Naturally - because dreams are only addressed from memory - this can always be attributed to a limited retro-horizon of recall. More importantly, there's the question of how one could possibly 'recall' that state preceding entrance into or initiation of the (initial / base-level) dream.
 
Ina dream last night someone wrote a phone number down for me and I recognised it and said, don't worry, I'll remember that!

I remembered it when I woke up and all day until just now, when I asked a family member what number ****** was. It was indeed X's number.

I was given this number years ago but I never rang it and didn't think I'd memorised it. So I have subconsciously remembered it well enough to read it in a dream. The mind, y'see, 'tis a wonderful thing... ;)
 
I've similarly had memories forgotten or 'out of reach' to my waking mind surface in the course of dreams.

On one occasion a character made reference to a situation (an encounter at a social gathering) that was framed with regard to an event involving 'actual' place and people. Within the dream I (as 1st-person actor) didn't recognize the anecdote as being other than a fabrication within the context of the dream's fantasy.

The next day I happened to mention this in the course of relating the dream. A friend made a comment indicating knowledge of the dream-anecdote, which startled me. He then reminded me that the event / situation had actually occurred a few years before (and I'd been present). I'd 'forgotten' it (consciously / whatever ... ) to the extent I didn't believe it until confirmed in the waking world ...
 
Yup. The mind, y'see. A computer. A VAST computer. 8)
 
Note: The Voynich manuscript (VMS for "insiders") is a famous undeciphered renaissance (?) manuscript. I've done some slight statistical analysis, but I have never provided any really new insights ...

In 2004 I posted this message to the Voynich manuscript mailing list. Funny how your dreams can take you for a ride ...

Last weekend I dreamt about the VMS. Now I haven't done any serious research on the VMS for two months or so, and I don't know why I should be dreaming about it ...

In my dream I received the VMS in the post. Standing with the package in my hands I thought: "This must be some horrible mistake on the part of the library, since I didn't order the manuscript itself." But I browsed through the book anyway. The VMS itself was just the second part of the book. The first part consisted of an elaborate introduction to the VMS, printed in normal script on modern paper and with color photographs as illustrations. It gave a commentary on the VMS and it's place in (art) history. It looked exactly like my book about the Ebstorfer Mappamundi. I thought: "I never heard about the VMS containing an introduction. Before I send it back I must scan it and post it to the group."

That's all. In contrast with other famous dreams (Benzene ring), this one did not yield any new insights ... but I thought it funny enough to post it.
 
I am always amazed at the 'complete' (as it were) back story that accompanies dreams. While I understand (kinda) some of the theories that purport to explain this, it is still fascinating.
 
uair01 said:
Last weekend I dreamt about the VMS. Now I haven't done any serious research on the VMS for two months or so, and I don't know why I should be dreaming about it ...

Around 15 years ago I was asked to use my research skills to estimate the actual rate of Mother-Son Incest. After a year my mind was feverishly swirling with facts, factoids and around three dozen wildly different numerical guesstimates - everything from "one in a million" to a schizophrenic who claimed "everybody." I put the project on abeyance and thought I'd never get back to it.

Another year passed. Then one night I dreamed that I was lecturing a University class in psychology. (Me with my high school diploma!) I rather matter-of-factly announced the figure to the class.

I then awoke SHOUTING the figure out loud.

It satisfied me, it satisfied my employer and I remain convinced of its accuracy.

PS. My academic friends tell me that I am the only non-academic they've ever heard of who has "faculty nightmares." For example, I once dreamed that I had to lecture a class of English Lit grad students on William Shakespeare. Alas, I could recall but one single fact about the Bard - "Shakespeare is DEAD."
 
PeniG said:
When I was young, it was common wisdom that only geniuses dreamed in color. Now everybody dreams in color and no one but me seems to have noticed the transition....

Peni, I don't believe that I've EVER dreamed in anything approaching full color. My dreams are in black-and-white with only very occasionally the most muted hints of color.

Not a genius? O dear!
 
I wonder how much of the black and white v colour argument was somehow based on the changes in technology re: films. I can just smell the snob connection...
 
Well, Mr. Radio, if "everybody" used to dream in black-and-white, so that people who dreamed in color were geniuses, obviously now that "everybody" dreams in color, the geniuses must dream in black-and-white!

I've also got a theory (which I think I've gone on about here, somewhere, in another dream thread) that the black-and-white dream was an artifact of the first half of the 20th century, when we all grew accustomed to watching black-and-white film and television. The experience of dreaming and the experiencing of watching media have a number of resemblances, including scene-setting, subsumed backstory, and shifting POV. It might well be natural, then, for the brain to be "trained" to view (or to remember) the flickering images on the insides of your eyelids as being similar to the flickering images you see on a screen. Now we all have color TVs, view color movies (even if the color is pretty muddy compared to good old Technicolor - I miss Technicolor!), and even do text on color monitors, we're trained to view, or to remember, all images in color.

I wouldn't input a snob factor myself, but that's because I've been accused of being a snob when I'm not so many times. Status doesn't interest me and there's no reason to think such considerations would enter my dreams. It might be a factor for someone else, though. However, since the image quality of B&W film is superior to most color processes, shouldn't the snob factor favor those who dream in B&W?

I do clearly remember that some of my most vivid childhood dreams were black-and-white. These date from my time in Alaska, when for a certain part of the year, the world is black-and-white. I also watched way too much black-and-white TV.
 
I understand the temptation of ascribing B&W / color trends to prevailing media motifs, but I can't personally buy it. I was around 11 or 12 years old before my family upgraded and we were watching color television as the norm. I was dreaming in color earlier than that.

In my own experience, color intensity can vary from dream to dream. The ones I recall having the most exorbitant 'Technicolor' hues tended to be dreams involving intense emotion or dreams dreamed under physical duress (most particularly those in the wake of a migraine attack or under the influence of a high fever).

The dream in progress when I awoke this morning had subdued tones (think interior scene on rainy day) except for the blueish arc on a severed electrical cable I'd stupidly neglected to unplug ... (Yes, I screw up in dreams, too ... )

I believe that regardless of discernible 'level of sophistication' in a dreamer's dream-related faculties, there's also a sort of 'level of effort' involved in visualizing scenes, such that only some dreams may get invested with 'Technicolor', while others may only have 'pastel'.

Beyond this there's the issue of visual recall. It can be difficult enough to remember the characters and plot events in a dream. Perhaps it is more difficult still to recall the hues, and (given that dreams are known only via recall in the waking state) color unremembered (and therefore unspecified upon recollection) is color denied ...

In other words - maybe we should be more skeptical about the presumption dreams remembered sans specific color cues are dreams dreamed in grayscale.
 
Indeed. In waking life, one is not normally conscious of seeing in colour (metaknowledge), one just accepts it as fact, that is to say, part and parcel of ones daily perception. It usually takes a conscious leap to further process that knowledge further e.g. Oh, what a beautifully red rose. The human 'system' likes novelty. Thus, it is reasonable to propose something similar occurs in dreams too. Therefore, unless the 'colour content' of the dream has forced the brain to 'realise' the colour as special, it, the colour, will go without comment (unless, post hoc, compared with other dream experiences - though this is something of an artefact)

However, needless to say, bright technicolour (I love those dreams) and/or black and white etc dreams impinge upon the memory - yet, this does not mean that the person only dreams in one particular mode, but that the colour (or lack) is particular to the dream narrative. Thus bringing us nicely back to overt and covert meaning of the dreams. Hurrah.
 
I had a dream last night which fits in quite well with this thread. I not only read something in my dream, but I managed to read backwards/mirror writing. The relevant part of my dream was that I was standing inside a room reading a note which had been stuck to the inside of the glass facing outwards so that from my point of view I was reading the writing that showed through the paper (which is obviously what made it mirror writing). The note made perfect grammatical sense although the content was a bit cryptic.
 
Go on. If not impolite, please tell us what the message was. BTW, can you normally read mirror writing/upside down writing?
 
I don't really want to say exactly what the note said simply because it taps into my single greatest fear in this world and I don't really fancy telling the whole of the internet what that is! Let's just say it was sinister and insinuated that someone had done that thing which I dread the most...(see, it's not just my subconscious which can be cryptic!). I suppose I can read mirror/upside down writing in real life with a bit of thought.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that the note was signed "The neighbourhood EBA" This means nothing to me and I have no idea where my brain came up with this. The rest of the note was all real and appropriate words so I have no idea what this means. I also have no idea why my brain would suddenly decide to put something in mirror writing instead of normal-facing writing like it always has done before.
 
Fair enough. I'll probe no more. I hate dreams that mess with your head like that. I hope it was just an anxiety dream - which we all have :D
 
mindalai said:
... Another thing I forgot to mention is that the note was signed "The neighbourhood EBA" This means nothing to me and I have no idea where my brain came up with this. The rest of the note was all real and appropriate words so I have no idea what this means. ...

I know what you mean ... It bugs me to no end to have a word or name come up within a dream, to have some feeling of acknowledgement as to its 'reality', and upon waking to realize it was apparent nonsense.

For me the #1 example occurred in a dream during the mid-1980's. I was in what appeared to be a graduate seminar in a traditional college classroom setting. After the class session ended, a female student (who seemed to be a friend within the dream context) approached and invited me to a party at her place. She ended the invitation with a somewhat conspiratorial smile, saying, "We'll be having something I know you'll like - [Yah - VON - ee]" In my 1st-person dream role, this induced a giddy thrill (yavoni! (spelling?)).

I've tried for 20 years now to find a real-world referent for this term. In the dream context, it was a 'thing' (e.g., perhaps a dish or beverage) and not a person. Except for some phonetically-similar personal names, I've never found mention of any 'yavoni' in my searches ...
 
Sometimes a real world referent is not what is required. For example, in Minda's post EBA, may relate to something closer to ebay and thus have a link to a financial lynchpin. Yavoni, may just be a neologism (thus dream euthamism) for sex - I know you state food and beveridge, but...well, you see where this goes. Sometimes analysis must probe and determine what is concrete and what is metaphor
 
It's funny you should say E-bay. In the dream the note was in colourful print like the e-bay logo and (still in the dream) I did momentarily think "I wonder if that means E-bay" but I dismissed the thought. Why would my brain invent a word, then puzzle over its meaning (I have no truck with the idea that anything in dreams comes from anywhere external)? Also I've haven't even had a passing thought about e-bay for a week or so, and certainly nothing relevant.

It's all very confusing.
 
I agree that metaphorical reference is always a possibility ...

However, I'm quite sure 'yavoni' served as a placeholder for a specific object or class of objects within the dream. This particular dream was quite 'grounded' in setting and action, and my gut feeling was that the woman-actor was referring to some specific 'treat' I should have recognized but couldn't.

Naturally, I'm not claiming any ontological status for 'yavoni' - rather I'm trying to connote something more like an 'epistemological' status based on clear-cut personal feelings within the flow of the dream as a 1st person actor.

There've been plenty of other occasions where some referent or object seemed to obviously enact a metaphorical status or function (sometimes obvious to me in one or more of my actor / audience / director roles within the dream ) ... This particular example wasn't one of them ...
 
Mnemonics? Metaphors? I don't believe in an external 'impingement' (?) either, but I do believe in the brain chucking up cryptic clues to pertinent issues. Although I have been known to mock many aspects of word association, in the right context one can find a diamond - there's just no regular way of being able to predict when etc. My usual suggestion to associate from hard concerns to unravel metaphor. So, in your case, I would ask what does the neighbourhood (neighbours) mean to you? Could they be a metaphor for your own group, your self image within a community or refer to your friends. Taken with the your statement about not wanting something to be found out....well, you can do the rest :D I've had similar odd dreams - in one the number 88 was important. I couldn't tell you for why. A friend of mine (an educative psychologist and former psychoanalyst) maintained that eighty eighty could be resolved into the phrase 'I hate it, I hate'. The situation I was going through could be categorised as such. Whether it was a good analysis or not, I didn't say - as he took the time to listen - but, I'm not sure it wasn't anything other than good cold reading. ;)
 
I had a dream last night where Martin Scorcese was showing me a film he had directed of a giant cigarette being stubbed out in New York City. Full of swooping camera moves over the streets, it was really quite impressive. Don't ask me what the significance was.
 
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