Mars Surface Anomalies Viewed From Orbit / Afar

INT21

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
7,074
Not so sure about that. Though it would be the obvious answer.

Have you followed the track all the way back to it's origin ?

and are you aware of the two tracks on the Moon ?
 

maximus otter

Recovering policeman
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
10,413
I wonder how long it has been there; possibly many millions of years.

Being an expert on the Martian climate (l’ve seen the film The Martian three times), l think that it’s unlikely that such a track would last for millions of years. We have measured winds of 94kph on the surface of Mars, and it’s famous for its - sometimes planet-wide - dust storms.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Mars#Wind

maximus otter
 

INT21

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
7,074
Being an expert on the Martian climate (l’ve seen the film The Martian three times), l think that it’s unlikely that such a track would last for millions of years. We have measured winds of 94kph on the surface of Mars, and it’s famous for its - sometimes planet-wide - dust storms.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Mars#Wind

maximus otter

Yes, but the atmoshere is much thinner. Hence the pressure against anything is less for an equivalent wind speed on Earth.
 

eburacum

Papo-furado
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
4,495
Apologies; I was thinking about the rock, rather than the track. If the rock was ejecta from a meteorite impact somewhere nearby, it might have been at the top of the slope for several million years before becoming unstable enough to slip down slope. Note that the significantly lower gravity on Mars could have helped to prolong the trail, once it finally started moving.
 

INT21

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
7,074
Could be.

But how do you know the terrain is steep just there ? And it does appear to follow a strange route.

I compare it with the two track on the Moon. The thing about those is that they appear to have been made by objects going in opposite directions. So, if they were simply rolling stones, one of them rolled up hill. Also one of them appears to have come up from out of a crater.
 

eburacum

Papo-furado
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
4,495
In this larger image, you can see that the boulder starts near the top of a crater slope. the uppermost edge of which is slightly to the left of the start of the track. Note that there are several other quite large boulders in that region that haven't come free yet.
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/pia18594-full_1.jpg

This is a big boulder, 6 metres tall and three metres wide. It came to rest upright for some reason.
 

INT21

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
7,074
In this larger image, you can see that the boulder starts near the top of a crater slope. the uppermost edge of which is slightly to the left of the start of the track. Note that there are several other quite large boulders in that region that haven't come free yet.
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/pia18594-full_1.jpg

This is a big boulder, 6 metres tall and three metres wide. It came to rest upright for some reason.

Yes, that in itself is interesting.

You will have noticed the shadow is triangular. Same as the Moon object shadows.
 

Ringo

I like to not get involved in these matters
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
2,936
Location
Stockholm
Note that the significantly lower gravity on Mars could have helped to prolong the trail, once it finally started moving.

I'm probably not thinking straight but would the lower gravity then not result in the object weighing less and therefore not having the momentum or power to roll very far? Like rolling a sponge ball down a sandy slope instead of a marble.

If you gave it a push then it would roll as a result of the applied force. But if it just became unstable would it have the legs?
 

Mythopoeika

I am a meat popsicle
Joined
Sep 18, 2001
Messages
47,555
Location
Inside a starship, watching puny humans from afar
I'm probably not thinking straight but would the lower gravity then not result in the object weighing less and therefore not having the momentum or power to roll very far? Like rolling a sponge ball down a sandy slope instead of a marble.

If you gave it a push then it would roll as a result of the applied force. But if it just became unstable would it have the legs?
The object has the same mass, but the gravity is low, so once it has started moving, it'll keep going for longer until something gets in the way.
 

Ringo

I like to not get involved in these matters
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
Messages
2,936
Location
Stockholm
The object has the same mass, but the gravity is low, so once it has started moving, it'll keep going for longer until something gets in the way.

Surely it would have the same mass but not the same weight as weight is dictated by gravitational pull. So it would still be as large and dense but not as heavy. Right?
 

eburacum

Papo-furado
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
4,495
We should not forget that objects in low gravity behave quite differently to those in Earth-like gravity. Long objects may bounce end-over-end for considerable distances, and perch in apparently unstable locations. On a bigger scale, many asteroids consist of loose, giant boulders that appear to be precariously perched on top of each other- such as Ultima Thule and 67P.

In low gravity an object retains the same inertia, so will remain in motion longer. The inertia factor may explain why these objects then end up perched in seemingly unstable positions- it takes a lot to make them move.
 

INT21

Gone But Not Forgotten
(ACCOUNT RETIRED)
Joined
Jul 18, 2016
Messages
7,074
The gravity on Mars is 38% that on Earth.

But I am wondering if the slope is steep enough to cause a rectangular object to roll in that manner. If it was starting from a very steep point I would expect it to initially 'bounce' and produce an intermittent track before rolling.

And a rolling irregular object doesn't normally roll very far.

It does look odd. But maybe one day we will find out.

It will be interesting if we find it has moved when it is next photographed.
 

AlchoPwn

Public Service is my Motto.
Joined
Nov 2, 2017
Messages
2,536
We have a similar issue with the movement of rocks in Death Valley. It is supposed to be due to the heating and cooling of the rock over time. If a rock is on a relatively smooth slope, it is feasible that it could move in a more-or-less straight line.
 

Mr. Banooka

Abominable Snowman
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
547
I watched a great documentary yesterday whilst waiting to watch the Mars landing. It featured a section on the “Face on Mars” and other features in the Cydonia region, that showed that when the topographical data was used to create a 3D image that the features were nothing more remarkable than hills. It’s a shame, I’d have loved them to have been fabricated by an ancient Martian civilisation.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

charliebrown

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Nov 2, 2020
Messages
2,495
Location
Earth
Mr. Banooka,

Do you yourself believe it is just hills ?

Could the topography be faked by NASA ?

N Never

A A

S Straight

A Answer
 

Mr. Banooka

Abominable Snowman
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
547
Mr. Banooka,

Do you yourself believe it is just hills ?

Could the topography be faked by NASA ?

N Never

A A

S Straight

A Answer

I can’t tell if you are being serious or just trolling me? Do you genuinely believe that NASA are lying to us? Can you honestly give me a genuine reason why NASA would spend millions of dollars just to fake things?

If NASA are sending robots to Mars to look for signs of life, then why would they cover it up if the had evidence?
 

Nosmo King

I'm not a cat
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
7,535
Mr. Banooka,

Do you yourself believe it is just hills ?

Could the topography be faked by NASA ?

N Never

A A

S Straight

A Answer
You are more likely to find what you seek on Venus, as it used to have an atmosphete similar to that of earth, until hyper global warming destroyed it, there is, however no evidence that Mars ever had an atmosphete capable of sustaining any sort of life capable of more than procreating and eating and nowhere near the ability to wield tools let alone make complex structures
 

hunck

Antediluvian
Joined
Jul 13, 2011
Messages
7,482
Location
Hobbs End
Mars certainly had an atmosphere of sorts & running water in the past. This from NASA:

Mars is a cold, inhospitable desert today, but features like dry riverbeds and minerals that only form with liquid water indicate that long ago it had a thick atmosphere that retained enough heat for liquid water – a necessary ingredient for life – to flow on the surface. It appears that Mars lost much of its atmosphere over billions of years, transforming its climate from one that might have supported life into the desiccated and frozen environment of today, according to results from NASA missions such as MAVEN and Curiosity and going back to the Viking missions of 1976.

However, many mysteries about the Red Planet’s ancient atmosphere remain. “We know Mars had more atmosphere. We know it had flowing water. We do not have a good estimate for the conditions apart from that – how Earthlike was the Mars environment? For how long?” said Timothy Livengood of the University of Maryland, College Park and NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland. Livengood is lead author of a paper on this research published online in Icarus August 1.
 

blessmycottonsocks

Antediluvian
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
7,281
Location
Wessex and Mercia
Mars certainly had an atmosphere of sorts & running water in the past. This from NASA:

Mars still does have liquid water - just about.
When the temperature rises above - 23C, dark streaks have been observed trickling down crater walls.
All the evidence points to dribbles of briny water.

water.JPG

https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-confirms-evidence-that-liquid-water-flows-on-today-s-mars

Also, at the bottom of Hellas Planitia, the air pressure is just high enough for liquid water to pool:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellas_Planitia
 

Comfortably Numb

Antediluvian
Joined
Aug 7, 2018
Messages
8,933
Location
Phone
Mars Spiders Form as Spring Arrives on Mars. But why?

universetoday.com
30 March, 2021

A person suffering from arachnophobia might think their fear would stoked on a trip to Mars. However, there is such a thing known colloquially as a Martian “spider”. It is much more innocuous than the eight legged animal that strikes fear into the hearts of millions, but its origins have only been theorized until recently. Now, a team led by a group at Trinity College Dublin has determined that these “spiders” are actually topological troughs formed when dry ice directly sublimates to a gas.

The “spiders”, or to give them their proper name, “araneiforms” have been known for some time. These spider-life features of the Martian terrain form in the spring, but are not known to form at all on Earth. Araneiforms have been captured by various satellites orbiting Mars for the last 20 years. Their transitory nature makes them particularly interesting to scientists looking to better understand Martian seasonality and weather patterns.

For a long time, there has been a theory about where araneiforms came from. That theory, known as Keiffer’s hypothesis, named after Hugh Kieffer formerly of the US Geological Survey, centered on the idea that the sun would cause the ground under blocks of dry ice to heat up, eventually sublimating the dry ice it is in contact with. Pressure would then build up in the ice block, eventually rupturing it and allowing the gas to escape. The quick escape of the gas then forms the dendritic pattern characteristic of araneiforms in the dust of the Martian surface.

The only problem with this theory, which has been widely accepted in the scientific community, is that it was never demonstrated experimentally. Coverage of the Martian surface is not continuous enough to be able to catch an ice block in the act of sublimating. Therefore, the theory, though widely accepted, was never truly proven.

(...)

https://www.universetoday.com/150709/mars-spiders-form-as-spring-arrives-on-mars-but-why/amp/
 

IbisNibs

Exotic animal, sort of . . .
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
2,596
Location
Outside my comfort zone.
Gives me a whole new perspective on David Bowie.
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
27,735
Location
Out of Bounds
Newly published analysis of an as-yet-unnamed Martian crater reveals an unusual hydrological system's effects and perhaps the first evidence of ice ages / glaciation on ancient Mars.
Puzzling New Type of Ancient Crater Lake Discovered on Mars

An ancient crater lake in the southern highlands of Mars appears to have been fed by glacial runoff, bolstering the idea that the Red Planet had a cold and icy past.

Researchers from Brown University have discovered a previously unknown type of ancient crater lake on Mars that could reveal clues about the planet’s early climate.

In a study published in Planetary Science Journal, a research team led by Brown Ph.D. student Ben Boatwright describes an as-yet unnamed crater with some puzzling characteristics. The crater’s floor has unmistakable geologic evidence of ancient stream beds and ponds, yet there’s no evidence of inlet channels where water could have entered the crater from outside, and no evidence of groundwater activity where it could have bubbled up from below. ...

So where did the water come from?

The researchers conclude that the system was likely fed by runoff from a long-lost Martian glacier. Water flowed into the crater atop the glacier, which meant it didn’t leave behind a valley as it would have had it flowed directly on the ground. The water eventually emptied into the low-lying crater floor, where it left its geological mark on the bare Martian soil. ...

“This is a previously unrecognized type of hydrological system on Mars,” Boatwright said. “In lake systems characterized so far, we see evidence of drainage coming from outside the crater, breaching the crater wall and in some cases flowing out the other side. But that’s not what is happening here. ..."

Importantly, Boatwright says, the crater provides key clues about the early climate of Mars. There’s little doubt that the Martian climate was once warmer and wetter than the frozen desert the planet is today. What’s less clear, however, is whether Mars had an Earthlike climate with continually flowing water for millennia, or whether it was mostly cold and icy with fleeting periods of warmth and melting. Climate simulations for early Mars suggest temperatures rarely peaking above freezing, but geological evidence for cold and icy conditions has been sparse, Boatwright says. This new evidence of ancient glaciation could change that. ...

FULL STORY: https://scitechdaily.com/puzzling-new-type-of-ancient-crater-lake-discovered-on-mars/
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
27,735
Location
Out of Bounds
Here are the bibliographic details and abstract for the crater lake research. The full article is accessible at the link below.

A Noachian Proglacial Paleolake on Mars: Fluvial Activity and Lake Formation within a Closed-source Drainage Basin Crater and Implications for Early Mars Climate
Benjamin D. Boatwright and James W. Head
Published 2021 March 12 • © 2021.
The Planetary Science Journal, Volume 2, Number 2

Abstract
A 54 km diameter Noachian-aged crater in the southern highlands of Mars contains unusually well preserved inverted fluvial channel networks and lacustrine deposits, all of which formed completely inside the crater. This "closed-source drainage basin" (CSDB) crater is distinct from previously documented fluvially breached or groundwater-fed crater basin lakes on Mars. We compare our observations to previously established models of crater degradation, fluvial incision, and topographic inversion on Mars to assess the most likely origins of the water that formed the fluvial and lacustrine features. We favor top-down melting of a cold-based glacier as the source of water in the CSDB crater, which would represent the first examples of proglacial fluvial channels and lakes found on Noachian Mars.

FULL REPORT: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3847/PSJ/abe773
 

blessmycottonsocks

Antediluvian
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
7,281
Location
Wessex and Mercia
The Mars Global Surveyor and, more recent HIRISE (High Resolution Imaging Experiment) orbiting cameras have returned many images showing rectilinear shapes on the surface. The Angustus Labyrinthus area near the Martian southern ice cap has them in abundance and has been dubbed the "Inca City".
Whilst such shapes can occur naturally on Earth, large scale right angles in nature are rare, so I thought this merited a mention here.
The following are MGS or HIRISE images, except for the 2nd one down, which is (I think) from Curiosity.

mars1.JPG


mars2.JPG


mars3.JPG

mars4.JPG


mars5.JPG

mars6.JPG


BTW mods, this thread and the smaller "Mars Surface Anomalies Viewed From Orbit / Afar" seem to cover pretty well the same ground, so are probably good candidates for merging, if you have the time.
 

escargot

Disciple of Marduk
Joined
Aug 24, 2001
Messages
38,621
Location
HM The Tower of London
The Mars Global Surveyor and, more recent HIRISE (High Resolution Imaging Experiment) orbiting cameras have returned many images showing rectilinear shapes on the surface. The Angustus Labyrinthus area near the Martian southern ice cap has them in abundance and has been dubbed the "Inca City".
Whilst such shapes can occur naturally on Earth, large scale right angles in nature are rare, so I thought this merited a mention here.
The following are MGS or HIRISE images, except for the 2nd one down, which is (I think) from Curiosity.

View attachment 45360

View attachment 45361

View attachment 45362
View attachment 45363

View attachment 45364
View attachment 45365

BTW mods, this thread and the smaller "Mars Surface Anomalies Viewed From Orbit / Afar" seem to cover pretty well the same ground, so are probably good candidates for merging, if you have the time.
There's no scale so they could be the Rover's own tyre prints.

I do love that wider Mars landscape though.
Has me thinking 'Bet that'd be a nice bike ride!' :chuckle:
 

blessmycottonsocks

Antediluvian
Joined
Dec 22, 2014
Messages
7,281
Location
Wessex and Mercia
There's no scale so they could be the Rover's own tyre prints.

I do love that wider Mars landscape though.
Has me thinking 'Bet that'd be a nice bike ride!' :chuckle:

I should have posted a scale.
The image below of Angustus Labyrinthus is 58km x 16km.

mars7.JPG
 

EnolaGaia

I knew the job was dangerous when I took it ...
Staff member
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
27,735
Location
Out of Bounds
BTW mods, this thread and the smaller "Mars Surface Anomalies Viewed From Orbit / Afar" seem to cover pretty well the same ground, so are probably good candidates for merging, if you have the time.
This has come up before ... There are two separate threads to accommodate the fact that there are smaller-scale surface anomalies viewed on the surface, and there are larger-scale surface anomalies viewed from a distance (above).

All but one of your posted images fit into the latter category, and they've been moved to the thread dedicated to the larger-scale anomalies viewed from above.
 

charliebrown

Justified & Ancient
Joined
Nov 2, 2020
Messages
2,495
Location
Earth
I believe the Face of Mars is real, but these people could have been living on Mars millions of years ago.

Our Solar System is 4.5 billion years old, so a few million years means nothing.
 

GNC

King-Sized Canary
Joined
Aug 25, 2001
Messages
33,544
The "Face on Mars" was debunked years ago, I'm afraid. A better definition of photograph came along later and revealed the big rock didn't look like a face at all.
 
Top