Forteanism, Childhood & Curiosity

[escargot]

I think that's a personality thing - all of my kids would have been at the window in a flash if we'd had foxes on the lawn.

And mine.
It's also a surly teenager thing though. Peel was discussing that very subject.

 

[Tempest63]

So not no success then.

I think I may have successfully caused a nose to run.

 

[charliebrown]

You would have to walk in my shoes to know why I am Fortean.

 

[Steven]

You would have to walk in my shoes to know why I am Fortean.

 

[brownmane]

The thing about Forteana is that ultimately it's the study not so much of anomalous 'things' as of human experience. The possibilities are pretty much endless.

^this^

I've always believed it's perfectly possible to take a Fortean perpective on non-Fortean subjects.

A corollary of this is that one needn't have found truth in any of the kinds of phenomena typically discussed within traditional 'Forteana' to remain 'a Fortean'.

^this^

Isn't it sad though, that the rest of the population can't see the wonder in simple things? They just shrug and say 'yeah, just one of those things,' and don't wonder about it.

It's their loss. We retain the wonder in the world for the rest of them who can't be bothered.

^this^

All explain why I am interested in Forteana. I follow the flora and fauna lost and found threads, some ancient civilizations threads, natural world threads, etc. As well as the human experience of life threads. These, with or without explanation are wondrous.

All things are interesting and create many questions for my understanding of the world.

Perhaps I have always been like this. My dad, when I questioned something - "Why is ...?" insert anything to the ending. My dad's answer to me was often "To make little girls ask questions."

I don't know if my siblings did this nor if he gave them the same answers. I am the eldest, so maybe I was daddy's little girl. Idk. My dad was a farmer and he had a lot of nature knowledge. He enjoyed all things in the natural world.

 

[Sid]

View attachment 75931

Ah! Flat footed eh?

 

[charliebrown]

It’s magical !

You all knew my shoe size !

 

[escargot]

Perhaps I have always been like this. My dad, when I questioned something - "Why is ...?" insert anything to the ending. My dad's answer to me was often "To make little girls ask questions."

That is abhorrent. Children should be encouraged to ask questions, not snubbed.
Having been constantly fobbed off with similar as child myself I swore never to do it to any children I had and that's how it went.

Sometimes it was a rod for my own back.
Still worth it.

 

[Yithian]

Perhaps I have always been like this. My dad, when I questioned something - "Why is ...?" insert anything to the ending. My dad's answer to me was often "To make little girls ask questions."

I read this as an affectionate way of saying 'Nobody knows the answer to that, but you're right to be curious.'

Did you/he mean something else?

 

[Krepostnoi]

Without imagination, curiosity and the sense of possibilities, all we're left with is the 9-to-5 and the four walls; a life that might as well be death.

Amen.

 

[escargot]

I read this as an affectionate way of saying 'Nobody knows the answer to that, but you're right to be curious.'

Why not say that then?
If my kids asked questions I didn't know the answer to I'd say so and we'd discuss it and talk about how to find out.
No question was brushed aside, even embarrassing ones; the shame was mine not theirs.

 

[Spookdaddy]

I read this as an affectionate way of saying 'Nobody knows the answer to that, but you're right to be curious.'...

As long as the statement, "To make little girls ask questions" was the beginning of a discussion, rather than an end to it (and that the person being addressed was in fact a child) then I don't see what the issue is. And it seems from the rest of @brownmane's post that the former was the case.

Still, I'm not sure what this has to do with this thread - and I'm pretty sure there is one somewhere dedicated to the tangent we've gone down.

 

[charliebrown]

I have a granddaughter in the first year of High School who has no interest in science.

This makes me sad.

 

[Shady]

Nah, the wee* hours're best. The shock is greater.

*Most aptly name for snails of a certain age.

Yes, cause youre already up weeing in the wee hours so you will be at least in the best place

 

[Sid]

I have a granddaughter in the first year of High School who has no interest in science.

This makes me sad.

Maybe this is because she has not found any 'need-to-know' ~ as yet, although I guess life will rear the inevitable questions which in turn will raise questions, which will require some form of scientific answer somewhere along her life's journey!

 

[catseye]

I have a granddaughter in the first year of High School who has no interest in science.

This makes me sad.

Just be patient. My kids used to say about history, 'why would anyone be interested in things that happened a long time ago?'

Most of them are now VERY interested in history. It just took a bit of maturity for them to see the importance and interest in the past.

 

[Sid]

Just be patient. My kids used to say about history, 'why would anyone be interested in things that happened a long time ago?'

Most of them are now VERY interested in history. It just took a bit of maturity for them to see the importance and interest in the past.

Well, when you think about it, science & history covers just about every subject under the Sun - so no-one person can really 'ignore' it when it's everything!

 

[brownmane]

That is abhorrent. Children should be encouraged to ask questions, not snubbed.
Having been constantly fobbed off with similar as child myself I swore never to do it to any children I had and that's how it went.

Sometimes it was a rod for my own back.
Still worth it.

He never snubbed my questions. He would explain if he knew. I might have asked why the sky is blue. I'm sure some of my questions may have been unanswerable lol. No internet in those days.

I still question a lot of things and, now, people often think I am arguing or disagreeing with them. Often I am just curious to understand how they came about with their understanding.

 

[brownmane]

I read this as an affectionate way of saying 'Nobody knows the answer to that, but you're right to be curious.'

Did you/he mean something else?

Yes. Your interpretation is correct.

 

[brownmane]

I have a granddaughter in the first year of High School who has no interest in science.

This makes me sad.

She may not have yet found her area of interest. If she views science as only what she is taught in school with tests and grades and not topics she finds interesting, then she has not had a chance understand what "science" encompasses.

She may be interested in houseplants or gardening (I'm just giving examples). This is all science. Is it taught in school? Probably not. She is also (at her age) influenced by peers as well as her parents. If she is not exposed to new experiences then she doesn't know.

 

[Iris]

brownmane maybe she will find a teacher who ignites that interest.
I was never interested in art till secondary school with enthusiastic teachers.

 

[skinny]

Well, when you think about it, science & history covers just about every subject under the Sun - so no-one person can really 'ignore' it when it's everything!

Um, wanna bet?

I currently work as a retail clerk in a very large and busy hardware store. The Ignorance afflicts roughly half of the persons I interact with on any given day. For roughly half of those it's cultural, subconscious and habitual. For the rest it's willful, which frightens the shit out of me. To those folks, education has been a major inconvenience along the long, lifeless path to oblivion. Zombies, yes. And age is no determiner.

I urge every parent of kids under 13 who reads this to regularly take them to explore the cosmos outside of the homebox, the Device, and especially the Marketplace. Go bush, as we say up here in the antipodes. Regular Excursion builds wonder quite naturally. Sid's first statement is probably correct.

 

[skinny]

She may not have yet found her area of interest. If she views science as only what she is taught in school with tests and grades and not topics she finds interesting, then she has not had a chance understand what "science" encompasses.

Agreed. I feel that. It is tricky to negotiate the whims and whiles of youth. My daughter is 16 with 1.75 years of secondary education remaining. 3 years ago she was floundering at school and in her head. Her Mum is obsessed with results and relentlessly lays on the pressure to Achieve. I was a teacher for 20 years, and I know that tests and grades mean sweet fuck-all in the final analysis. I told my kid that, and she believed it. Since then, she has changed the way she looks at school. She knows a test is a very arbitrary checkpoint. If she gets a low grade, she now wants to learn from the error, to patch up holes in her understanding. So now she doesn't fret so much. She still wants to do well, but she knows that is also a placeholder for real knowledge.

Her grades have gone from flat Cs to 90% As in a very short time, and she has even dropped her beloved Drama class to fill up on science, to our amazement. I think a bit of arts to balance out the heavy is a good thing, but she says she doesn't want to miss the opportunity to explore as much real stuff as she can. She sees taking Maths, Physics, Chem and Biology as broadening her field, not narrowing it. I think she knows how it will better inform her choices regarding a career down the line. English was my only interest as a secondary school student, so I'm (selfishly ) glad she has decided to retain that.

I credit her Mum for instilling in her the importance of education and for sending her to remedial tutoring when she didn't want to go. She also has a great relationship with her excellent (finally) teachers. I told her that by and large, every teacher struggles and carries a massive burden that the kids in class don't usually see, so she should get alongside them rather than seeing them as adversaries the way the 'cool kids' tend to do. They've responded exactly as I told her they would, with gratitude, care and energy in relation to her progress and curiosity. But I feel that the crux was the change in her attitude towards the seemingly unachievable. Don't doubt their capacity to change it up when given the keys to unlock a new paradigm of what success means.

She may be interested in houseplants or gardening (I'm just giving examples). This is all science. Is it taught in school? Probably not. She is also (at her age) influenced by peers as well as her parents. If she is not exposed to new experiences then she doesn't know.

For us it was first the bushwalks and the animals and then the stars. I started taking my daughter camping from the age of 8. I mean real 7-hour drive into the desert type camping where she could see the full starfield in all its glory and get a feel for country and lore (Indigenous ways of seeing). I shall never forget being awake at around 2 or 3am in my swag when she unzipped her tent to go out for a wee and just went whoah when she saw the cosmos with a full moon above and a massive ice ring surrounding it. She told me about it the next day (didn't know I had witnessed that encounter), and I told her that she saw what ancients probably thought of as a sign from God. It blew her mind into a new hairdo, and she craved more of what's out there from then on. What iphone experience could compete with that. I feel sick for those who are stuck in iPhone-istan. Or Mall-ovia. Yuck. Those poor coolkids.

 

[skinny]

Just poring through the last 2 pages and this thread has some excellent musings. I do hope when it gets lopped it isn't just dumped in a tangent bin. Please find a good home for our thoughts and ideas.

 

[Yithian]

Hey, Mods - creation or merge?

Just poring through the last 2 pages and this thread has some excellent musings. I do hope when it gets lopped it isn't just dumped in a tangent bin. Please find a good home for our thoughts and ideas.

Your wish is my grudging obligation.

 

[Spookdaddy]

The thing about Forteana is that ultimately it's the study not so much of anomalous 'things' as of human experience. The possibilities are pretty much endless.

Precisely this. It's a most rewarding attitude, not least because it insulates one from the disappointment of not necessarily believing in core information: the reality of the stated experience (its actually having happened) and the fact of the statement (someone stating that it actually happened) can be two separate but often equally interesting things - the story, and the story of the story, as I think of it.

I'm very interested in some aspects of Forteana - but I'm not sure I'd actually call myself a Fortean; it's a great ride either way.

 

[catseye]

I'm very interested in some aspects of Forteana - but I'm not sure I'd actually call myself a Fortean; it's a great ride either way.

Fort-curious would seem to cover it.

 

[BS3]

Precisely this. It's a most rewarding attitude, not least because it insulates one from the disappointment of not necessarily believing in core information: the reality of the stated experience (its actually having happened) and the fact of the statement (someone stating that it actually happened) can be two separate but often equally interesting things - the story, and the story of the story, as I think of it.

I'm very interested in some aspects of Forteana - but I'm not sure I'd actually call myself a Fortean; it's a great ride either way.

A lot of Fortean experiences are interesting precisely because of the experiencer, and how the experience illuminates their internal life and that of their community. For example I don't think you can entirely separate UFO 'flaps' from whatever else was going on in a place at the time - socially, economically, whatever.

Keel understood this when he wrote The Mothman Prophecies, although a lot of his readers took him a bit literally.

For me being a Fortean is about remaining open-minded. I guess I'm sceptical but understand that people, including some people I know and trust, experience some fairly wild and incomprehensible things.

 

[Sid]

Um, wanna bet?

I currently work as a retail clerk in a very large and busy hardware store. The Ignorance afflicts roughly half of the persons I interact with on any given day. For roughly half of those it's cultural, subconscious and habitual. For the rest it's willful, which frightens the shit out of me. To those folks, education has been a major inconvenience along the long, lifeless path to oblivion. Zombies, yes. And age is no determiner.

I urge every parent of kids under 13 who reads this to regularly take them to explore the cosmos outside of the homebox, the Device, and especially the Marketplace. Go bush, as we say up here in the antipodes. Regular Excursion builds wonder quite naturally. Sid's first statement is probably correct.

X Hardware worker myself skinny! That's History for you!

 

[Aydee_Aitchdee]

I get that. After probably four decades of interest in the unexplained, I can't say I care any longer. I've been thinking lately I'm not actually a fortean anymore. I even considered starting a thread about it. I wondered how many others have had that realisation. Even in terms of being sceptical of science; I still am, but I've realised so are scientists. That's part of the process. And, time and again, when people deny the scientific consensus, when I delved in and looked at all the data I could, the consensus is by far the best supported. Yes, there are things science has relatively little to say about (even if some scientists say too much); ghosts, fae, mystery animals reported here and there, mysterious lights and alien abductions. But, in forty years, nobody else seems to have got very far with that stuff, either.

I'm sure when a flying saucer crashes into Big Ben, or bigfoot gets hit by a car and taken to hospital, I'll see it on the news, and be thrilled. Until then, it leaves me cold.

I'm coming 'round to this myself, but the decline in my interest has more to do with the melodramatic and fake bullshit piling up faster and faster. I can't even watch ghost hunting shows any more, they've lost their allure.

And I'm annoyed. And looking for something to believe in that hasn't been tainted by the creepypasta generation.