A
Anonymous
Guest
Fortis - "A new or radical idea must be subjected to rigorous scrutiny before it is going to be accepted. In this case, if the conspiracy theory survived all that was flung in its direction, then we would grant it some respect."
Yeah true. I'm sometimes autocratic in that respect.
OK, the stuff that's been flung, so far:
1) That thousands of people worked on the project, and that some of them would have fessed up.
A) If thousands of people work on a project, chaos theory superimposed on sociology DOES confirm that a few WOULD fess up. BUT in an organised cover-up, only a very few people need know the truth, whilst the 'thousands' are just along for the ride.
2) The laser reflectors (assuming they are necessary) were left by the moon men.
A) 1) I really think we should consider the possibility that one can pick up a laser signal of a specific frequency bounced off of moon rock itself. 2) If cats eyes ARE required, they could be placed by a simple, cheap, unmanned mission.
THAT'S IT, right?
And the points that it WAS staged:
Physical
That as technology stands today (let alone 1969) It would be impossible to take off from the moon to return home in the way that it shown. It it shown that through a single explosion or sudden release of compressed gas, the lander returns to lunar orbit to rendezvous with the orbiter.
To be able to calculate this in advance, the NASA mathematicians would have required an almost perfectly flat plane for the lunar landing/takeoff. This could not have been guaranteed. There is too much possibility for error, and any mission planner would not have allowed this scenario to occur.
Circumstantial
1) The acknowledged reason for the moon landing (real/faked) was communism. To a) reaffirm in the American people their superiority to the Soviets, and to b) make that impression to the many small states that were sitting on the fence at that time.
This really is a very simple, and the true, reason. Propaganda. The agency that was most concerned with anti-Soviet and pro-American propaganda was the CIA. The agency who's JOB it would have been to conduct the moon landings was the CIA. The CIA, like all intelligence services, uses the strategies and arts of deception to cause maximum effectiveness with minimum expenditure. It would have been the CIA's first instinct to fake the landing, and spend the remaining $60 Billion (Apollo cost $64B in todays terms) on tasks it would have considered more important at the time.
Here is a quote - Ed Koch talking to CIA Director Dick Helms in 1969 - (source here)
My question was, "Would you tell us, please, the size of the CIA's budget?". The director laughed and said, "That's one of the questions we never answer". I said, "You mean to say I, as a congressman voting on your budget, will not know how much I'm voting for?" He replied, "That's right. Our budget is buried in some other agency's budget, and is not identified as such." I said, "You mean the CIA's budget could be buried in the budget of the Social Security Administration?" He laughed and said, "Yes: we've never used that one, but its not a bad idea."
I suggest that the CIA's budget was 'buried' in NASA's for at least the latter part of the 1960's.
And how's this for one of the MANY tasks that the CIA would have considered more important at the time? (source here)
"over one-quarter of the 30,000 men in Vang Pao`s army were killed or wounded between 1967-71. By the time the bombing was finally terminated, more than two million tons of bombs had been dropped on Laos alone, more than the total tonnage dropped by American aircraft throughout the Second World War and some 750,000 people, fully 25 percent of the country`s population, had been forced to flee their homes. The operations had been financed from U.S. taxes. As much as $5 billion had been spent on this `secret war`, 10 per cent of this expenditure having been met out of the CIA budget"
2) The stills recently published in FT from the interview with the moon heros just after they returned, where Armstrong et al truly do look like they are beginning a life sentence, rather than beginning a life of hero-worship.
---
There's more to add to that list, but that, I hope, is the groundwork for the 'serious' issues.
Believe it or not, my only agenda here is to expand people's horizons.
In my view, the more people there are who are willing to accept that the moon landings were staged, the more people there are who are willing to accept the existence of the more important cover-ups.
Hey JamesM - "I'm now going to suggest that the moon really is made of cheese. Nasa could prove me wrong by sending some astronauts, but I have a feeling they won't. And it must be because I'm right." - Spuriously Irrelevant! Next!
Yeah true. I'm sometimes autocratic in that respect.
OK, the stuff that's been flung, so far:
1) That thousands of people worked on the project, and that some of them would have fessed up.
A) If thousands of people work on a project, chaos theory superimposed on sociology DOES confirm that a few WOULD fess up. BUT in an organised cover-up, only a very few people need know the truth, whilst the 'thousands' are just along for the ride.
2) The laser reflectors (assuming they are necessary) were left by the moon men.
A) 1) I really think we should consider the possibility that one can pick up a laser signal of a specific frequency bounced off of moon rock itself. 2) If cats eyes ARE required, they could be placed by a simple, cheap, unmanned mission.
THAT'S IT, right?
And the points that it WAS staged:
Physical
That as technology stands today (let alone 1969) It would be impossible to take off from the moon to return home in the way that it shown. It it shown that through a single explosion or sudden release of compressed gas, the lander returns to lunar orbit to rendezvous with the orbiter.
To be able to calculate this in advance, the NASA mathematicians would have required an almost perfectly flat plane for the lunar landing/takeoff. This could not have been guaranteed. There is too much possibility for error, and any mission planner would not have allowed this scenario to occur.
Circumstantial
1) The acknowledged reason for the moon landing (real/faked) was communism. To a) reaffirm in the American people their superiority to the Soviets, and to b) make that impression to the many small states that were sitting on the fence at that time.
This really is a very simple, and the true, reason. Propaganda. The agency that was most concerned with anti-Soviet and pro-American propaganda was the CIA. The agency who's JOB it would have been to conduct the moon landings was the CIA. The CIA, like all intelligence services, uses the strategies and arts of deception to cause maximum effectiveness with minimum expenditure. It would have been the CIA's first instinct to fake the landing, and spend the remaining $60 Billion (Apollo cost $64B in todays terms) on tasks it would have considered more important at the time.
Here is a quote - Ed Koch talking to CIA Director Dick Helms in 1969 - (source here)
My question was, "Would you tell us, please, the size of the CIA's budget?". The director laughed and said, "That's one of the questions we never answer". I said, "You mean to say I, as a congressman voting on your budget, will not know how much I'm voting for?" He replied, "That's right. Our budget is buried in some other agency's budget, and is not identified as such." I said, "You mean the CIA's budget could be buried in the budget of the Social Security Administration?" He laughed and said, "Yes: we've never used that one, but its not a bad idea."
I suggest that the CIA's budget was 'buried' in NASA's for at least the latter part of the 1960's.
And how's this for one of the MANY tasks that the CIA would have considered more important at the time? (source here)
"over one-quarter of the 30,000 men in Vang Pao`s army were killed or wounded between 1967-71. By the time the bombing was finally terminated, more than two million tons of bombs had been dropped on Laos alone, more than the total tonnage dropped by American aircraft throughout the Second World War and some 750,000 people, fully 25 percent of the country`s population, had been forced to flee their homes. The operations had been financed from U.S. taxes. As much as $5 billion had been spent on this `secret war`, 10 per cent of this expenditure having been met out of the CIA budget"
2) The stills recently published in FT from the interview with the moon heros just after they returned, where Armstrong et al truly do look like they are beginning a life sentence, rather than beginning a life of hero-worship.
---
There's more to add to that list, but that, I hope, is the groundwork for the 'serious' issues.
Believe it or not, my only agenda here is to expand people's horizons.
In my view, the more people there are who are willing to accept that the moon landings were staged, the more people there are who are willing to accept the existence of the more important cover-ups.
Hey JamesM - "I'm now going to suggest that the moon really is made of cheese. Nasa could prove me wrong by sending some astronauts, but I have a feeling they won't. And it must be because I'm right." - Spuriously Irrelevant! Next!
