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Nick Redfern Solves Roswell!

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In the new issue of UFO Review, Stuart Miller interviews Nick Redfern about his new book which seems to have solved Roswell. The truth it seems is far stranger and macabre than I could of imagined, involving scientists from Japans Unit 731, genetic mutations, and high altitute testing, there is also an odd element to the Alien Autopsy footage in the very long interview, check it out at www.uforeview.net. Highly intriguing stuff, and Nick Redfern is going to get a lot of flak from the ETH/Nuts and Bolters, either that or they will just ignore it, like they did with Greg Bishops excellent book, Project Beta, which explored the whole Bill Moore/Paul Benniwitz case in much detail.

Link is dead. No archived version found.
 
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I read that interview yesterday. Fascinating! And yes, very strange and macabre. :( It will take a bit of time to read folks but it is well worth it!

It had better not get ignored!
 
fascinating stuff, will definitely have to buy the book now.
 
Hmm - seems overly exotic IMHO. And yet again we have to rely on 'evidence' from 'insiders'.
 
Men Behind the Sun indeed!!

Thanks for the headsup - I'm reading through it now but it is an interesting take on the whole thing (grim if true).

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I'll drop the direct link in here for posterity:

www.uforeview.net./issue11.pdf
Link is dead. No archived version found.

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The book has been released straight to paperback so is pretty reasonably priced (under £7):

www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/07434 ... ntmagaz-21
www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0743497 ... enantmc-20

The editorial review mentioned in the interview is:

Editorial Reviews

Book Description

IT WAS A CONSPIRACY TO HIDE A SECRET EXPERIMENT

"RAAF captures flying saucer on ranch in Roswell region." Ever since this provocative headline appeared on July 8, 1947, conspiracy theorists have sincerely believed that the U.S. government has maintained an extensive operation of cover-up-and-denial regarding its knowledge of alien life. But there was, in fact, no UFO crash with dead alien bodies. What really happened on that fateful day is much more sinister. The persistent rumors surrounding the UFO crash in Roswell, New Mexico, are part of a bigger conspiracy -- one orchestrated and fostered by the government itself as a smokescreen to bury a truth that is much darker, and disturbingly, far more believable.

Now, through never-before-revealed testimony from military whistleblowers, eyewitness intelligence reports, and an astonishing body of corroborative evidence, Nick Redfern lays out a shockingly plausible new theory on the Roswell incident: that the crash-site discovery of prototype military aircraft would expose a damning secret -- a highly confidential, U.S. government-sanctioned program to conduct medical experiments on deformed, handicapped, disfigured, and diseased Japanese POWs, exploited as "expendable" victims by their captors.

An important account that forces us to take a closer look at both the Roswell story and post-war American history, BODY SNATCHERS IN THE DESERT casts a startling, new light on a shocking conspiracy more than half a century in the making.

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Excerpt. © Reprinted by permission. All rights reserved.

Introduction

In the summer of 1947, something crashed to earth in the blisteringly hot and barren deserts of New Mexico. The event has been the subject of many books, official investigations undertaken by both the government and the military, numerous television documentaries, a movie, intense media coverage and speculation, and has left in its wake a legacy of controversy and a web of intrigue that continue to reverberate nearly sixty years later. It has come to be known as the Roswell Incident.

It is a matter of record that in early July 1947, the then Army Air Forces announced that it had recovered the remains of a "flying disc" that had been found on a ranch near the town of Roswell, New Mexico. The intense media frenzy that followed was only brought to a swift and conclusive halt when the AAF hastily retracted its statement: the flying disk story was a huge mistake and the crash "remains" were actually nothing more than a weather balloon. Today, the United States Air Force tells a different story: that the debris found at Roswell came from a top-secret balloon project designed to monitor Soviet nuclear tests and that claims of unusual-looking or "alien" bodies found at the site were, in reality, based upon witnesses remembering having seen "crash-test dummies" utilized in parachute experiments.

Those who champion the idea that something truly anomalous occurred at Roswell scoff at the ever-mutating assertions of the Pentagon and maintain that a conspiracy of truly cosmic proportions exists at the highest level to hide the out-of-this-world truth of the affair and its alien origins.

But what if there was another, distinctly darker explanation behind the Roswell legend -- one that summarily dismissed the balloon and crash-test dummy claims but that also laid to rest the theories that extraterrestrials met their deaths in the New Mexico desert? From 1996 to 2004, I spoke with a number of military and intelligence whistle-blowers, all of whom related to me the details of a series of shocking post-World War II experiments undertaken on American soil. I confess that I did not initially pay much attention to the claims. But as time progressed and additional and corroborative data and testimony began to surface, the horrible truth behind the legend of Roswell became apparent. This controversial body of data and never-before-revealed testimony forms the crux of Body Snatchers in the Desert.

Copyright © 2005 by Nick Redfern
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The discussion of Unit 731 (and related experiments on humans) can be found here:

www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8677
 
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JerryB said:
Hmm - seems overly exotic IMHO. And yet again we have to rely on 'evidence' from 'insiders'.
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As Nick Redfern himself says, the stories he got from the witnesses were all from their own perspective and told their own part in the story. Taken together they all went towards building the whole picture. As he says, if all the "insiders" were telling the same identical tale that would be suspicious but they didn't.
 
Perhaps so, but that tends to be the way these 'theories' pan out WRT their sources, especially with Roswell stuff. Don't get me wrong, it's an interesting idea, but various other chains of accounts, etc. have said other things from other angles.
 
Maybe but as he said in the interview, what this will do is to encourage other people to investigate for themselves, perhaps find even more stuff. Perhaps other people will come forward. It really does look like there is some good evidence this time. Including things which can be backed up from old military documents. I suppose it COULD be possible that people came upon these by accident and concocted a story around it but that seems even less likely when you consider how many millions of documents there must be..
 
Nick also lives in Roswell too and knows all the local caractors and the Bullsh*tters, so you can bet that the book is the most acurate portraal of what actully happened to date.

Nick Redfern is giving his only UK talk on the subject this year at the weird weekend (as I've mentioned on this thread: http://www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=550474#550474)

details of this august's weird weekend are here: http://www.cfz.org.uk/ww05.htm
there's a few of us from the fortean times MB going already, so you won't be alone if you want to turn up listen and ask questions after.
 
Please dont see me as a dedicated subscriber to roswell, please dont see me as a person who will utterly deny anything outside of the UFO realm when explaining what crashed at corona. I'm quite open minded and if an alternate explanation truly adds up, I would gladly buy into it. This man certainly does not create something like that for us. I hereby deem this misinformation IMO. He may truly beleive what he speaks on, but a handfull of things simply do not add up. He has not solved anything IMO. In so many words, he calls the witnesses liars; anyone could call someone a liar to conveniently skip areas which he cannot account for. Roswell autopsies showed 6 fingers and toes, not 5; so I'm sorry but he can't simply leave the door open for a possibility that the autopsy film might fit with his theory, it can't and he should of known better. Please kindly let me know if I missed anything but I dont see any explanation for the set of pictures containing the I-beam photographs, handplates, etc.. Also, no explanation for the military repeatedly scanning over the area literally on their hands and knees snatching up each and every sliver/fragment of the material. Love how he conveniently forgot to mention anything about the 3 specific crash sites and how no regular debress from a half century old plane could of been impacted so hard to be scattered thru-out dozens of square miles of new mexican desert; such a speed had not been reached in that era to account for the high velocity impact sending debrees so far. No mention of the strange qualities certain debrees had. No mention of the real witnesses who can attest to flying overtop the crash site and seeing 3 bodies lying there smoldering in the desert heat. I could go on and on...

:roll:
 
well I would rather read the book and then question it, presumably those questions you pose may be answered in the book, there might be proof that certain people are tellers of tall tales perhaps or the reason for the number of toes might be because it was a human being autopsied was deformed (several nazi scientists were fond of dicecting deformed people purly because they were deformed to find out why their bodys were different, several nazis were employed by america in the space race in exchange for a full pardon, perhaps there may be a link).

if you are writing an extract or a breif synopsis of a book you can't compress the full weight of evidence of a whole book into a paragraph or 2 if you could there would be little point in writing a book.
I've not had chance to read the book in full yet but I will as my friends Jon Downes and Richard Freeman have seen a lot of Nicks evidence and it is suported by photographs (from the time not scanned in ones emailed on a pc that could have been set up or photoshoped). Also a UFOlogist of Nick's standing would not stake his whole reputation on a hearsay from some bloke in the pub called 'Crazey Zeke' or something like that.
 
There was an extract from the book in the Daily Express on Saturday, doesn't appear to be on-line anywhere.

Roswell autopsies showed 6 fingers and toes, not 5; so I'm sorry but he can't simply leave the door open for a possibility that the autopsy film might fit with his theory, it can't and he should of known better.
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What's the problem? People are born with more than the standard number of fingers and toes.

BTW, I don't believe the autopsy film does show a procedure on a person with a number of congenital deformities, as is suggested. There doesn't appear to be a ribcage for example and someone simply wouldn't survive with such drastic internal rearrangement. IMO it's a model (sorry, NR).


As for most of your other point Human_84, have you actually bothered to read the article that Emps provides the link to? It's pretty detailed, and I'm sure the book goes into a lot more detail.
 
^ Yes of course, how else can i refer to it?

The autopsie film u ask about, Nick Redfern gives light to it as if it may or may not fit his theory. It most certainly does not as he claims more or less that it may be film of a japanese subject to radiation. Sorry to tell Nick, but excessive radiation doesn't give you 4 new fingers and toes in a days time. Thats all I have to say about that.
 
H_84: A couple of points:

1. I think you'd have to read the book before picking holes in his arguement.

2. You are assuming the autopsy footage is real.

See earlier discussion (hmmmm pos. a bit of a tidy up might be in order):

www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9578

www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1874

www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8849

www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1602

www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1871

www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17431

www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21515
 
I was just about to go into a Roswell Rant, but saw what Emperor had to say - so, I will read the book first - but, the autopsies are fake and I really don't believe a flying saucer crash landed; yet being a good Fortean, I will have a gander (hurrah a duck reference) anyway. :D
 
Hmm, as I recall, the stories about bodies did not show up until quite a few decades after the original. And Redfern is talking to people a good few years on from that, while the mythos has grown and bloomed.

The Japanese connection idea has been around a while, but deformed Japanese prisoners sounds like a new one...will be interesting to see if he's got anything solid and checkable.
 
Human_84 said:
In so many words, he calls the witnesses liars; anyone could call someone a liar to conveniently skip areas which he cannot account for.
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I didn't notice him calling anyone a liar so can't comment on that. Who did you think he is calling a liar specifically?

Roswell autopsies showed 6 fingers and toes, not 5; so I'm sorry but he can't simply leave the door open for a possibility that the autopsy film might fit with his theory, it can't and he should of known better.
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Hmm, well I'm not so sure about the whole progeria thing myself though to be sure the photographs of progeria patients do look quite a lot like the figure in the autopsy. That particular theory does seem a little far fetched IMO.
Please kindly let me know if I missed anything but I dont see any explanation for the set of pictures containing the I-beam photographs, handplates, etc..
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What are these Human, I don't think I've heard of them? What makes you think they are real and not added on by ET enthusiasts?

Also, no explanation for the military repeatedly scanning over the area literally on their hands and knees snatching up each and every sliver/fragment of the material. Love how he conveniently forgot to mention anything about the 3 specific crash sites and how no regular debress from a half century old plane could of been impacted so hard to be scattered thru-out dozens of square miles of new mexican desert; such a speed had not been reached in that era to account for the high velocity impact sending debrees so far. No mention of the strange qualities certain debrees had. No mention of the real witnesses who can attest to flying overtop the crash site and seeing 3 bodies lying there smoldering in the desert heat. I could go on and on...
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In fact he mentioned all this. The theory is that THE Roswell craft was a glider suspended under a balloon array that became detached and the whole thing crashed. That is why the debris was spread so far. The military would be pretty keen to get every last scrap up yes! Wouldn't you? ;)

The other bodies, crash sites etc that were seen at different times/places were the bodies of people taken from unit 731. Nice. :roll:
 
Gadaffi_Duck said:
I was just about to go into a Roswell Rant, but saw what Emperor had to say - so, I will read the book first - but, the autopsies are fake and I really don't believe a flying saucer crash landed; yet being a good Fortean, I will have a gander (hurrah a duck reference) anyway. :D
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to stiffle debate but it seems pointless to dismiss all the 225 pages of info in his book based on a handful of pages from an interview ;)
 
I find NR's theory worthy of a very close read of his book, which I hope to soon. I feel the 2 theories (Roswell = crashed UFO + Aliens, or NR's) may not be mutually exclusive, both events may have inter-bled over the years. Co-incidence does happen.

For me, I still have faith in the intelligence of Major Marcel. Yes he didn't play with tech like multi-gigahertz computers on his lap like we do today, but I feel folk back then had as much, probably more common sense and savvy than we do today. That's why I think he would know, immediately, aluminized rubber-type material for what it is. The memory-metal described was phenomenally out-of-time back then, probably even today. And the lightweight wood-like material that "..could not be whittled with a knife" or burned is similarly out-of-time. That's 2 important items that I don't feel it's reasonable to dismiss as fog-of-time errors.

All kinds of sh** went on there. Perhaps so did UFO crashes for the reasons Stanton Friedman has covered so well.
 
Human, don't mean to get your back up, but other than the I-Beams from the AA footage, all those other points certainly do get mentioned in the interview, particularily the different crash sites.
 
I still think that this latest theory is a somewhat exotic way of stitching various stuff about Roswell into one neat picture. I also don't buy into the idea that what occured was an experiment with a Japanese balloon/glider aircraft. I mean, after all, such an aircraft was designed to be used in a specific way - that is, to be drawn along a pretty specific route by pretty specific natural phenomenon. So it seems to be strteching things a bit that whoever was in charge of things in the US seems to have released it regardless, into an environment for which the aircraft was not designed for. That seems to be inviting disaster, and one would assume that they wouldn't adopt such a seemingly slapdash approach to this, taking into account the supposed unethical side of things WRT this whole weapons programme.
 
Emperor: I never assumed the autopy footage was real. What I said was that Nick should NOT have allowed the autopsy footage to coincide with his theory, it couldn't fit, it doesn't and he shouldn't of let it. And Emps, I'm not trying to dismiss him without reading the book either but even in the PDF his ideas are put out there, and so far I'm not liking what I see. I really doubt they would of left the best things out of the PDF, its like a movie preview they always show the best parts.

Bannister: Never said he called anyone a liar, I used the phrase "In so many words". But the people I was referring to are most specifically the pilots who spotted the craft while scanning the area, they said 3 bodies were present. Nick doesnt explain why they saw 3 bodies, unstead he says that what they speak of is false, but Nick never backs it up!!!

The pictures I speak of. Its true that they cant be proved genuine, can anything pertaining roswell be proved genuine tho? Nope, and not Nicks ideas either.

The crash. Yes i read about the glider. That doesn't account for the things I brought up.

Spaceparrot: I agree with you on some things for sure.
 
:?
But wasn't this an X Files episode, more or less?
The tall fellow finds a railway car full of horribly malformed corpses buried in the desert, he phones the little red-haired girl, then the Mean Nicotine Man shows up in a helicopter, he yells "burn it" and they throw a bag of firecrackers into the railway car, and so on?
 
I just cant get enough of this guy.

Rendlesham forest. Nick claims that its an outragious thing for people to have seen big black cats present there 100 years ago. As fortean lovers, we know that statement is likely bogus. Also, he then goes on to relate the bigcats to the bigfoot sightings in the area and later confirms that the big cat and bigfoot sightings were responsible for the famous 1980's Rendlesham forest UFO incident; as if it were all part of some intertwined folklore. Right, I'm gonna mistake a cat for a spaceship, mm hmm...

Also claims that since no crash at roswell occured from a downed saucer, that therfor no alien technology has ever been reversed in the US military's hands. Ohhh nick, that was the only ufo crash ever huh? That was the only chance the military could of gotten ahold of some futuristic technology? So therfor no reverse-technolodgy has ever taken place?? Honestly.......

:roll:
 
Human_84 said:
Rendlesham forest. Nick claims that its an outragious thing for people to have seen big black cats present there 100 years ago.
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It is outrageous, the forest was only planted in the 1920s. Before that is was scrubby heathland. Anyway East Anglia is famed for Black Dogs, not Black Cats...
 
Human_84 said:
I just cant get enough of this guy.

Rendlesham forest. Nick claims that its an outragious thing for people to have seen big black cats present there 100 years ago. As fortean lovers, we know that statement is likely bogus. Also, he then goes on to relate the bigcats to the bigfoot sightings in the area and later confirms that the big cat and bigfoot sightings were responsible for the famous 1980's Rendlesham forest UFO incident; as if it were all part of some intertwined folklore. Right, I'm gonna mistake a cat for a spaceship, mm hmm...
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I take it you've never heard of theoreys about Zooform phenomina, and how it can explain sightings of UFOs, BHM, ABCs visions of BVM and ghosts?
 
For those not knowing...
Zooform Phenomena
Zooform Phenomena : is a term coined by Jonathan Downes, an Exeter-based investigator of mystery animals. The term describes entities that outwardly resemble animals, but appear supernatural rather than corporeal. (cited on http://www.paranormality.com/zooform_phenomena.shtml)

However, it is a vast assumption - I seem to recall it may be based on ideas of spiritual morphogenic fields (sadly I can't find any decent references at this hour). Which in itself, is a fun fortean plaything, but hardly a very credible theory! It presupposes far too many what ifs and buts. This is not a major problem, but please start on a bit of solid footing before speculating :D
 
yes, but I did say it was a theory and not nesaersarally fact (one would be hard pressed to find anything in the broad church of forteania to find anything one could call a fact by the scientific definition, thats part of what makes forteania forteania). I think that it is what Nick Redfern may have been refering to in relation to Rendlesham, saying that the same thing that might cause someone to see a BHM in the area (similar in nature to the sightings of the Bolem Bigfoot that were thought to have been zooform penomina) could cause sightings of UFOs or other things, it dose not meen that a flesh and blood bigfoot like monster is running around and people are looking at it and thinking that the manshaped thing grunting at them is a UFO.

It's just another theory that could be applyed to ufology like for example the theorys that it's ET's buzzing us, or they are new top secret us planes or spy drones, or that they are UT's keeping a close eye on us, or that they're time travellers from the future.
 
I wasn't disagreeing - I love learning about all kinds of theories. It is just that the basis of the explanation we have been talking about starts at completely airy fairy mode. I have no objections speculating on anything - but please start with the evidence e.g. one saw a light or cat shape; then move on to the idea of military jets or escaped beasties. Slowly move your way to higher strangeness in stages - this stops those who don't know the subject from mocking, and allows those of us who like the idea but don't know enough to understand the reasoning. At this point criticisms will be raised and holes in logic or research pointed out.
 
I think what Nick is trying to say is that he used to believe in recovered ET craft and ET underground bases but now feels he, like many about their early forays with ufology they believed the nuts and bolts theories (and misinfo), but now feels John Keel and Jaque Vallee are more prone to be correct in that it is far more complex ( re: UT theory/Zooform theory/Culturally&historically referance theory etc). Hence UFO's may be possible as a result of Jung's theory of collective unconcious creating tulpas or an intelligence that changes its imagery to fit with the times (hence once it was fairys now its grey aliens). This was basically his answer in response to a question that said something like well if you've solved roswell do you think all ufo's can be explained away as military activity.....
 
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