It's still not a fact that the various materials said to be recovered from the site did indeed have any of the properties that have been alleged. I think that all anyone can safely say about the whole incident is that something came down to earth at Roswell - what it was, what it was made from, and by whom still don't really have any 'facts' attached to them, especially not those that are alleged to have some sort of ET origin.
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Anonymous
Guest
All the descriptions of the debris recovered at Roswell I've ever heard are definitely terrestrial in origin. Basically, balsa wood, mylar (or something similar), cellophane tape, plastic, etc. Pointing, of course, to a balloon.
sureshot
sureshot
Human_84
Somewhat human
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sureshot said:
If we're just picking up a baloon then why 60 army dudes out in the desert for a week, when you can fit it into the back of a car in 10 minutes time? The hyrogliphs sound earthly to you? I beams on a baloon? The memory-metal? Handplates? Oh yah, definetly everyday stuff. My car has hyrogliphs covering it and i dont need a steering wheel because I got 2 handplates see its perfectly normal.
Human_84
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So how about them bodies? Lets talk Santilli for a second. We've got an obviously different humaniod figure from that of whats considered normal. Nick tells us that this could of been someone subject to a rare disease or radiation. Cmon now, take a look at that face. Its perfection. Its not morphed, it doesnt have a giant nose. It doesnt have a messed up chin. It doesnt have elf-like ears. I'm not harping on people with the disease but lets be realistic here. The roswell film shows hardly anything similar to those types of patients. Howcome its innards show a different makeup than that of a human being? Why do we have 6 perfect fingers and not 5 perfect and 1 screwed up one? Its obviously female and omitting the absence of hair I would venture to say that this was quite a beutiful subject in its life. Look at the face, its hands. Mere perfection, not a diseased human.
Anyone wanna explain why theres absolutely no existance of a naval on our lovely subject? If you were born on Earth then you certainly have a naval because you came out your mommas tummy didn't you!
Anyone wanna explain why theres absolutely no existance of a naval on our lovely subject? If you were born on Earth then you certainly have a naval because you came out your mommas tummy didn't you!
A
Anonymous
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From here: http://www.unexplainable.net/articles/1 ... miner.html
A description of the balloon from the actual person who launched it:
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The balloon's construction material and it's radar reflector payload - which included wooded sticks, metallic paper, metal rings, and strangely marked tape - are identical to the debris recovered at the Roswell site. This is based on eyewitness accounts and photographs taken of the debris.
The tape with strange "flowerlike" designs suggested to be alien hieroglyphics, sounds exactly like the tape made by a toy factory for the Air Force project, Moore said.
The debris also included smoky rubberized material, which Moore says is exactly the kind of material used in the early Project Mogul balloons.
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sureshot
A description of the balloon from the actual person who launched it:
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The balloon's construction material and it's radar reflector payload - which included wooded sticks, metallic paper, metal rings, and strangely marked tape - are identical to the debris recovered at the Roswell site. This is based on eyewitness accounts and photographs taken of the debris.
The tape with strange "flowerlike" designs suggested to be alien hieroglyphics, sounds exactly like the tape made by a toy factory for the Air Force project, Moore said.
The debris also included smoky rubberized material, which Moore says is exactly the kind of material used in the early Project Mogul balloons.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
sureshot
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Human_84 said:
That would be because:
[Brian Conley] It's a puppet! [/Brian Conley]
Min Bannister
Possessed dog
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Are you going to explain where alien babies come from then?Human_84 said:
Actually I'm not sure I'd want you to. :shock:
Human_84 said:
the bodies look bloated to me which would explain why a belly button dosesn't show up well, espicilly when that's coupled with a grainey picture qualty.
(I've never been to Roswell but I do have a biology degree and studied decomposition processes of animals as part of that, thought I had best mention that as it's relivent)
Edit, because of afterthought:
If an alien race was coincidentally so simmilar in apperance to humans as in the 'roswell alien autopsy' film it'd be stranger that they didn't have belly buttons than the fact they were aliens in the first place.
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First of all, the Loch Ness comment - I was pointing out that visiting a site doesn't necessarily confer you with the ability to pronounce definitively upon a subject. I'll skip any further analogies, and be more direct from hereon in 
.
.
Ok then...Human_84 said:
Yep, not disputing that for a second.Human_84 said:
Yes, it could have been, had it not been a puppet in a bogus movie...Human_84 said:
What, more realistic than the puppet, for example?Human_84 said:
erm... because they weren't real innards? On account of it being a puppet?Human_84 said:
Eye of the beholder, matey. It's a puppet...Human_84 said:
To quote my colleague..Human_84 said:
Quixote said:
ignatiusII
Ephemeral Spectre
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As one who seriously embraces the notion that we might ( just ) possibly share our planet with a veritable bestiary of crypto-critters, I am loathe to dismiss any individual who displays an understandable reluctance to let go of a long-cherished pet theory. However - while I am perfectly willing to entertain the remote possibility that we are being visited by the Space Brothers (ETH hypothesis, however exceedingly unlikely that may be ), I must say - all of the evidence I've seen relating to the Roswell crash is extremely underwhelming as proof of an extraterrestrial visitation/drunk driving mishap/whatever. As the events of that 1947 incident are now part of popular culture, and have spawned a veritable cottage industry in Roswell itself, it is unsurprising ( to me anyway ) that any and all attempts to resolve the matter in any conventional manner ( that is to say, in any way other than the ETH crash theory ) is met with howls of indignation from the 'alien visitation' camp. Perhaps it was an actual UFO that crashed out there back in the '40's ( I've been to Roswell, too. Saw a lot of dirt and low scrub. Nary an E.T. in sight ). Most likely, though, it wasn't. And having seen what is being presented as 'evidence' from both sides of the argument, I can see no reason to change this opinion.
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Human_84 said:
Here you state you don't assume the autopsy is real:
www.forteantimes.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 858#550858
but in that above statement you are essentially saying it is real footage of a genuine autopsy.
As far as I can tell Nick Redfern is only saying how the autopsy could be accomodated within his theory while you are assuming the autopsy is real and then using its assumed reality to show the theory is invalid. Thats really an assumption too far surely? Or at least puts you on rocky ground.
ruffready said:
that was pretty funny! ...anyway..all I can think of saying at this point is ..will probably really never know ..but I do want to read books by folks like Nick, when they have something interesting to say that stirs up folks!
Equally though you could try reading books by folks called Nick = it might feel a bit random after a bit though.
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Anonymous
Guest
C'mon....it is 2005. Does anybody really think that autopsy footage was real?
Well, as we have the general gist of his theory and some of the history behind it, we can still pick apart what we know thus far as the interview goes into quite alot of detail. And I think Occam's razor has a few more slices to go before we can say that Redfern's theory is the best one that explains Roswell.
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From an Occam's Razor point of view, Redfern's theory looks well behind the Mogul theory. He posits a whole heap of extra 'invisibles' - Horten-derived balloon/glider, a set of secretly imported Japanese pilots, extra people with deformities etc - without adding anything to the ability to explain.
In fact, it does look rather like he is bringing in new ad hoc explanations simply to fit in with the standard X-Files version of the mythos, rather than actually trying to get to the truth.
In fact, it does look rather like he is bringing in new ad hoc explanations simply to fit in with the standard X-Files version of the mythos, rather than actually trying to get to the truth.
Human_84
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Min Bannister: For arguments sake, lets assume they are 20,000 years ahead of us in technology. Would people of those times want to go thru the pain of birth? Think about what people here can do with dna presently, certainly 20,000 years from now they'll have figured away around it, wouldnt you say thats possible? Lets face it people, if you were going to design a fake alien body, it would certainly have a naval. And there are plenty of clear shots where no naval is present, this isnt a camera trick due to poor quality. Theres no naval. Furthermore, I find it interesting that other more recent reports of "aliens" have contained an entity without cloths, and people have noted that there is no naval. This is 40-50 years later people are reporting this. Bud hopkinds will tell you the same about the reports. Makes me think advanced races are not conceived as we are, hence the first 3 sentences of this post.
Wembley: I think I'm with you on that. I may of even claimed it to be dis/misinformation in my first post here.
Emperor: You put words in my mouth. I said "I never assumed it was genuine". I never assumed it was fake either though. To make up my mind without knowing for certain would be a poor choice. Matter fact I never even made up my mind to say aliens crashed or whatever, I just feel its most likely.
Wembley: I think I'm with you on that. I may of even claimed it to be dis/misinformation in my first post here.
Emperor: You put words in my mouth. I said "I never assumed it was genuine". I never assumed it was fake either though. To make up my mind without knowing for certain would be a poor choice. Matter fact I never even made up my mind to say aliens crashed or whatever, I just feel its most likely.
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Human_84 said:
Well then you can't use the video as a basis to attack his theory. As has been said above (esp. by Wembley and JerryB) there are other grounds that make it look rocky but we'll see....
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Although the discussion about navels is interesting it pos. deserves to be on another thread but ieven if we assume the autopsy footage wasn't a fake there are explanations based on what one assumes the thing being autopsied is (and that is assumptions on assumptions on assumptions - the hosue of cards certainly looks rocky at that point but it works for a hypothetical I suppose):
1. There is no reason why aliens would have similar means of reporduction despite their superficial resemblances to us.
2. If it is a mutant/evolved/manipulated human (either due to our own meddling or something from the future or another dmesnion) then the lack of navel may come from their being grown in tanks - it was brought up in Space: Above and Beyond where the "tanks" could be spotted by their lack of belly button:
www.cyberpursuits.com/heckifiknow/saab/invitros.asp
Min Bannister
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Hmm possibly. Though the foetus would need some sort of placenta, even if it was an artificial one to get nourishment. And that would need to be fed in somewhere, why change the place it already happens? It makes sense for the nutrients to be fed in through the middle of the foetus, if they went through the base of the neck they would have a job getting down to the feet. Maybe this could have its own thread!Human_84 said:
SPIELBERG CONFUSED BY DECREASE IN UFO SIGHTINGS
Not sure where I was gonna put this ...SPIELBERG CONFUSED BY DECREASE IN UFO SIGHTINGS
Oscar-winning director STEVEN SPIELBERG is baffled that fewer UFO sightings are made now than were made twenty years ago - because the technology to record would-be aliens is so commonplace today.
The 59-year-old film-maker has made a string of alien-themed movies - CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND, ET: THE EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL and WAR OF THE WORLDS - and is disappointed it seems he'll never get the chance to see evidence of a UFO himself.
Spielberg says, "There are millions of video cameras out there and they're picking up less videos of UFOs, alleged UFOs, than we picked up in the 1970s and 1980s. There's 150 per cent more cameras, so why are we getting less from up there?
"I think that we all know that we're not alone in the universe. I can't imagine that we are the only intelligent biological life form out there. I'm a little less sure in my fifties that I was in my late twenties whether we're actually ever going to find out."
28/06/2005 02:04 Source
[Emp edit: Fixing big link.]
Not sure where I was gonna put this ...SPIELBERG CONFUSED BY DECREASE IN UFO SIGHTINGS
Oscar-winning director STEVEN SPIELBERG is baffled that fewer UFO sightings are made now than were made twenty years ago - because the technology to record would-be aliens is so commonplace today.
The 59-year-old film-maker has made a string of alien-themed movies - CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND, ET: THE EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL and WAR OF THE WORLDS - and is disappointed it seems he'll never get the chance to see evidence of a UFO himself.
Spielberg says, "There are millions of video cameras out there and they're picking up less videos of UFOs, alleged UFOs, than we picked up in the 1970s and 1980s. There's 150 per cent more cameras, so why are we getting less from up there?
"I think that we all know that we're not alone in the universe. I can't imagine that we are the only intelligent biological life form out there. I'm a little less sure in my fifties that I was in my late twenties whether we're actually ever going to find out."
28/06/2005 02:04 Source
[Emp edit: Fixing big link.]
A
Anonymous
Guest
or maybe in there society its seen as ungainly to have a navel
leaving little grey plasic surgens very busy.,.
leaving little grey plasic surgens very busy.,.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Perhaps the model make wasn't very good...just a thought 
HERE IS SOME COOL STUFF !! THE FULL MONTY !!
Roswell UFO Controversy Resurfaces!
The Full Nick Redfern Interview in Six Parts
Body Snatchers in the Desert
http://www.phenomenamagazine.com/0/edit ... bj_id=3452
BROUGHT TO YOU BY !!! Ruff :shock:
Roswell UFO Controversy Resurfaces!
The Full Nick Redfern Interview in Six Parts
Body Snatchers in the Desert
http://www.phenomenamagazine.com/0/edit ... bj_id=3452
BROUGHT TO YOU BY !!! Ruff :shock: